THM/Magic Roleplayers - How is thaumaturgy used?

[Kage]

So how do people use thaumaturgy in their roleplay? What aspects are played on?

 

Is it just, people able to manipulate their own aether into fire or ice-aspected magics?

[Warren Castille]

I'm no thaumaturge, but I did make up some books for theorizing how aether works. The short of it is that a user's aether is manipulated to mimic the material components of actual elements: magical fire isn't real fire, but it emulates ignition and burning. Similarly, magical ice isn't real ice but looks like frozen water, etc.

 

Ever since they dropped the Astral/Umbral side of things, I've had no idea what the ACTUAL rules were.

[cuideag]

My impression was always that a thaumaturge basically used a big ol' stick to focus their own aether into some big bad spells. Decidedly less elegant than, say, arcanistry and likewise decidedly more potentially catastrophic (which is not really a bad thing if you want to really rip out some really big bad spells indeed). I would wonder, though, if stones or crystals would be used in order to really boost certain elemental aspects?

 

Also very curious myself though cause I'm going to need to step into this stuff real soon.

[Blue]

I remember little from my thaumaturge quests, but I do recall that Thaumaturges take care of embalming and burial rituals in Ul'dah. The Goldsmithing quests also reveal that scepters and staves are often made out of bones as spoils from the dead work as better receptacles for thaumaturgy's magicks.

 

I am just making 2+2 here and poking theories, but perhaps, inversely to conjury channeling the aether from the living forest (the Elementals), thaumaturgy does the opposite, instead receiving its aether from the caster and his ability to channel the aether from the dead (when things die in Hydaelyn, their aether is said to return to the lifestream, so it doesn't just disappear).

 

Then there's the void, but that stuff is purely related to black magick, which is a forbidden form of thaumaturgy.

[Kage]

I'm very curious because...

 

Kage's history is actually supposed to be that this is what he did, essentially forced into it because he sucked at goldsmith. But... I'd only put it into practice waaay over a year ago. But it's something I think about because he spent years studying and myself.. I have no idea wtf he would really be doing in real roleplay practice >.>;

[cuideag]

I'm very curious because...

 

Kage's history is actually supposed to be that this is what he did, essentially forced into it because he sucked at goldsmith. But... I'd only put it into practice waaay over a year ago. But it's something I think about because he spent years studying and myself.. I have no idea wtf he would really be doing in real roleplay practice >.>;

 

teach me Kage-senpai let's go to wizard school together.

[cuideag]

I remember little from my thaumaturge quests, but I do recall that Thaumaturges take care of embalming and burial rituals in Ul'dah. The Goldsmithing quests also reveal that scepters and staves are often made out of bones as spoils from the dead work as better receptacles for thaumaturgy's magicks.

 

I am just making 2+2 here and poking theories, but perhaps, inversely to conjury channeling the aether from the living forest (the Elementals), thaumaturgy does the opposite, instead receiving its aether from the caster and his ability to channel the aether from the dead (when things die in Hydaelyn, their aether is said to return to the lifestream, so it doesn't just disappear).

 

Then there's the void, but that stuff is purely related to black magick, which is a forbidden form of thaumaturgy.

 

Oh dang! Kind of makes sense, doesn't it? All that aether just floating free.. might as well put it to use, right? >

[Melkire]

It's been posted before, elsewhere, by a number of people far more versed than I in lore, but it comes down to this:

 

Conjury is borrowing the power you need to cast spells from the world around you. Key word is "borrow". You essentially allow yourself to be a conduit for aether that is not yours, and you channel the energy given to you in the form of a spell. White Magic takes this a step further in that the individual accesses Succor (whether the Elementals grant/loan them access or the individual learns how to access Succor in a manner that is forbidden through Amdapori texts comes down to individual cases).

 

Thaumaturgy is using your own aether to power your spells, using the gems in rods/staffs as focii. Arcanima works in a similar fashion: the arcanist provides the aether, and the geometries shape the spells rather than focii.

 

Black Magic is forcibly stealing/ripping the aether from the land in order to fuel tremendously destructive feats that are shaped in a similar fashion to thaumaturgy. The process is the same, but the fuel source differs. This is actually harmful to Hydaelyn/the planet.

[Kage]

I'm very curious because...

 

Kage's history is actually supposed to be that this is what he did, essentially forced into it because he sucked at goldsmith. But... I'd only put it into practice waaay over a year ago. But it's something I think about because he spent years studying and myself.. I have no idea wtf he would really be doing in real roleplay practice >.>;

 

teach me Kage-senpai let's go to wizard school together.

*wraps an arm around, nodding before reeling head back in shock* Not a senpai D:

 

So... use a focus, bone material and certain gem stone, manipulate own aether to do... things.

 

?

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I'm very curious because...

 

Kage's history is actually supposed to be that this is what he did, essentially forced into it because he sucked at goldsmith. But... I'd only put it into practice waaay over a year ago. But it's something I think about because he spent years studying and myself.. I have no idea wtf he would really be doing in real roleplay practice >.>;

 

teach me Kage-senpai let's go to wizard school together.

*wraps an arm around, nodding before reeling head back in shock* Not a senpai D:

 

So... use a focus, bone material and certain gem stone, manipulate own aether to do... things.

 

?

 

I see thaumaturgy scepters/staffs as kinda like an aetherial prism. Energy goes in one way, it's bent/shaped/focussed, and then the spell comes out. We know that an elemental wheel exists (not the FC thing) where certain elements cancel each other out (although not implemented) and we know aether can be aspected to different elements. By manipulating that aether with tools, we get magic.

 

...nothing will ever be better than the math puppy though.

[Warren Castille]

/me dons 1.0 lore hat

 

The quality of the stone not only indicates how powerful the channeled aether is, but it could also influence what kind of aether was most effective when passing through.

 

Mechanically, it meant that casting Fire spells with a red gemstone buffed them. Casting ice spells with a red gemstone caused them to outright do less damage. Back when elemental resistance was a thing, this meant that THMs had to carry multiple weapons around, because casting fire spells with a fire rod on a fire elemental meant you did... double digit damage at level 50! Yaaaaay!

 

/me removes hat

 

EDIT: HOLY SHIT EMOTES

[Blue]

* Warren Castille dons 1.0 lore hat

 

The quality of the stone not only indicates how powerful the channeled aether is, but it could also influence what kind of aether was most effective when passing through.

 

Mechanically, it meant that casting Fire spells with a red gemstone buffed them. Casting ice spells with a red gemstone caused them to outright do less damage. Back when elemental resistance was a thing, this meant that THMs had to carry multiple weapons around, because casting fire spells with a fire rod on a fire elemental meant you did... double digit damage at level 50! Yaaaaay!

 

* Warren Castille removes hat

 

EDIT: HOLY SHIT EMOTES

 

Oh boy, the memories from FFXI ... all the elemental staves.. all the gil...

[Kage]

*gives a petulant pout*

 

DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE *runs*

[Unnamed Mercenary]

*gives a petulant pout*

 

DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE *runs*

 

...in game mechanics!

 

Why wouldn't fire for a fire elemental otherwise be relaxing for it?! We certainly see a LOT of ice elementals in Coerthas these days. (Note elemental, not Elemental.)

 

*remembers the good ol' "try your best flare" days*

[Maril]

One of the things I have applied to Nailah as she is a very newbie thraumaturge in training, is an aspect of instability. As far as I gathered, to get good at thraumaturgy the caster needs to have their emotional state in check otherwise they'll loose control of their spells.

So what I did with Nailah, because she has anger issues.. (She -is- a redhead afterall) is that whenever she gets angry she can't control her aether, and then random fireballs might happen. Currently I don't have her dependent on the active use of a staff/gem/thing to channel it through because I haven't been to certain on it. I would maybe tentatively make it so that she's carrying around a gem that aids her, if I had to put something in and I was allowed a little wiggle-room. It's caused some fun situations with friendly fire and made here more adamant not to loose her cool, and she did also once sear some of her hair off so she had to go short-haired for a while.

I don't actually remember where exactly I have it from (this is really typical of me, I read something and then I forget where I read it), if it's mentioned in any of the lore at all. It does seem like a sensible thing though.

[Sounsyy]

I have a Hellsguard alt I'd like to RP one of these days who is a former prelate of the Order of Nald'thal, but currently an Alchemist working as a field medic for the Immortal Flames. Now, while I haven't yet gotten a chance to RP him (cuz Sounsyy takes up what little time I do have) I don't think I'd RP him as using Fire or Ice or Thunder at all. The 2.0 class mechanics of THM really bore me... from a lore standpoint... when I know what they used to be. So when I get around to playing on Merlgeyss, I'll roleplay him as a true part of the Order. Astral and Umbral magic, carrying out Vengeance Orders, sucking people's aether out of their chest. If I wanted to throw fireballs... I'd be a Conjurer. But that's just me.

 

 

 

Now lore, because it's me. Gonna dump a THM lore compilation of mine here. (Kinda for my own reference because it's getting frikkin ridiculous trying to go back and find each post.) But hopefully it'll be helpful for those wanting to RP Thaumaturges to go back and get some background for the roots of the Order!

 

• Aether and the Mechanics of the Magi
  
• Foci of the Magi
  
• Understanding Thaumaturgy
  
• Aether, Ceruleum, and Thaumaturgy
  
• Ossuary vs Sacrarium
  
• Necromancy and Thaumaturgy
  
• Black Magic and the Void Misconception
  

 

 

[Reiner Dorn]

I have a Hellsguard alt I'd like to RP one of these days who is a former prelate of the Order of Nald'thal, but currently an Alchemist working as a field medic for the Immortal Flames. Now, while I haven't yet gotten a chance to RP him (cuz Sounsyy takes up what little time I do have) I don't think I'd RP him as using Fire or Ice or Thunder at all. The 2.0 class mechanics of THM really bore me... from a lore standpoint... when I know what they used to be. So when I get around to playing on Merlgeyss, I'll roleplay him as a true part of the Order. Astral and Umbral magic, carrying out Vengeance Orders, sucking people's aether out of their chest. If I wanted to throw fireballs... I'd be a Conjurer. But that's just me.

 

 

 

Now lore, because it's me. Gonna dump a THM lore compilation of mine here. (Kinda for my own reference because it's getting frikkin ridiculous trying to go back and find each post.) But hopefully it'll be helpful for those wanting to RP Thaumaturges to go back and get some background for the roots of the Order!

 

 

• Aether and the Mechanics of the Magi
  
• Foci of the Magi
  
• Understanding Thaumaturgy
  
• Aether, Ceruleum, and Thaumaturgy
  
• Ossuary vs Sacrarium
  
• Necromancy and Thaumaturgy
  

 

Sounds like a perfect Runestone competitor

[Mercurias]

M'sato was just...BAD at Thaumaturgy. After a full year of study, the best he managed was to be able to use a bone charm to light candles and make ice cubes.

[SayonaraRevival]

hmm, I've been lurking this thread. but now I'm wondering if I missed something, because I haven't seen any lore or explanations on how thaumaturgy or black magic gets related to the void. how are they related to the void, if it is at all, or is that just a comparison? is one relevant, while the other's not?

 

I haven't played much in the THM quests because I hate the DPS queues and getting swiftcast isn't my priority right now, but does anything ever explain that in-game? just totally curious how they are related since I enjoy reading loredumps here.

 

(I don't know if this question really justifies a new thread, and I don't really remember if there's a 'Stupid Lore Questions' thread here -- I didn't see one. maybe it's the gw2 forum instead I'm thinking of, lmao.)

[Chris Ganale]

Void comes up in the BLM quests. BLM, unlike THM, is intrinsically tied to the void.

[Sounsyy]

how are they related to the void, if it is at all, or is that just a comparison? is one relevant, while the other's not?

Void comes up in the BLM quests. BLM, unlike THM, is intrinsically tied to the void.

 

This is actually a common misconception. Black Magic, in and of itself, has absolutely nothing to do with the Void. Shatotto, the original inventor of the technique, never had any connection with the Void. Black Magic is very simply a technique which alters the aether source of Thaumaturgy from the caster's aether to the Lifestream's aether. That is all Black Magic is, a technique.

 

Shatotto wished to perform the greatest feats of magic the world had ever seen, however, she - like the Alchemist Coco brother from the THM quests - was severely limited by her own personal aether reserves, stunting her Thaumaturgy abilities. So after many years of study she discovered a method for using the planet as a fuel source for her magic instead of her own reserves, thereby giving her a seemingly unlimited fuel source for her spells. Using this technique, Shatotto was able to bring down a star.

 

As Shatotto's Black Magic technique gained popularity across Eorzea, the Magi of the 5th Astral Era began competing against one another for the more impressive magics, the more destructive displays, the most powerful conjurations. The Magi were no longer limited by their own aether reserves, they were only limited by their own imagination. Magi near the end of the Era were able to animate entire mountains, revive men from death, bring down stars, move or level entire cities. So after gaining all of this power, what greater feat could be accomplished? What was more powerful than the world? The answer: the world beyond ours.

 

This is the time period when Black Mages began experimenting with the Void. The damage to Hydaelyn caused by their spells tore holes in our physical plane of existence, allowing aether-starved beings from the Beyond to stumble into our world. With practice, Black Mages were soon able to open portals on purpose and pull beings from the World Between Worlds into our own. In exchange for aether, these beings promised the Black Mages their powers, their magic, their servitude. And so the Magi of Qarn used these Voidsent in their great War of the Magi against the nations of Amdapor and Nym. With the power of the Voidsent, these two nations suffered grievous loss to the Black Mages. Until eventually the Magi of Eorzea, along with the Voidsent, had drained Hydaelyn completely of Her aether and the Elementals summoned a flood which wiped the taint of the Magi from the world. Those who survived the 6th Umbral calamity forbade further practice of any magic, particularly Black Magic, which was blamed for the War and the devastating toll it took on the world.

 

This is why, today, many (who are even aware of the existence of Black Magic) relate it to the horrors it drew forth from the Void 1,600 years ago. But, Black Magic is in no way intrinsically tied to the Void as a part of the magic. It was simply a byproduct of the magic that was eventually exploited during a time of war. The magic used by a Black Mage in no way differs from that of a Thaumaturge. Just the mechanics of what fuels the spell is different.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Thought it might be helpful to clip the THM explanation from the current Guildmaster.

 

 

 

 

 

The important thing to notice (for me) was that they don't actually talk about the Elemental Wheel at all. (Because THM never used it in the first place). They do, however, talk about plenty about death.

[JFrombaugh]

Thaumaturgy is using your own aether to power your spells, using the gems in rods/staffs as focii. Arcanima works in a similar fashion: the arcanist provides the aether, and the geometries shape the spells rather than focii.

 

Wow, I always thought that Thaumaturgy was the only discipline that actually used one's own internal aether to fuel spells (hence why Thaumauturges have to learn how to shift between Astral & Umbral states of mind to recharge), and Arcanima just used geometrical patterns to shape latent aether around the caster into spells.

 

Though I guess when you look at the Aetherflow abilities and how you gain back MP by using it, it kind of makes sense.

[Winters Knight]

The way I would play it, while not canon, would be tied similarly to the manner in which Shanna activates magick throughout Matthew Stover's Acts of Caine. She utilizes different objects with different inscriptions for each of her spells, such as buckeyes for her explosive spells and small polygons of glass to generate shields. These are activated by pushing her magic through them.