XIV Updated - SoF Nerfed!

[Martiallais]

If people are committed enough then it's possible for them to get through most content in the game. Perhaps not immediately and with a few failed attempts under their belt but I stand by my point.

 

My attempts to find a group capable of downing T5 through the duty finder proved tedious and unsuccessful. I ended up completing it with some friends.

Communication is key: I'm sure if people start making threads in the FFXIV sub-forum on this site seeking aid in downing a particular encounter then there's going to be many people willing to help them out.

 

Emphasis mine here.

 

I actually tried this Saturday on Martiallais with about 3-4 FC mates and V'aleera (thanks again!). V'al actually did a great job explaining everything in the fight but with the two healers pretty much derping around we weren't able to clear it before the time ran out.

 

Mind you, everyone who joined up with us (me, FC-mates, V'aleera) have cleared it multiple times, but just a few people who didn't want to communicate meant doing it over and over until we ended up jumping back in again with some more people we knew rather than random pick ups.

 

I don't think SoF is overly hard but like most things, other people can definitely make it so. >_> I also agree it would've been nice if they added some incentives to make people actually want to finish it other than one and done'ing it because of the MSQ.

[Warren Castille]

stuff

 

Similarly, I'm not trying to go hard on you or anything, you're just doing a good job of exemplifying the thing we're all trying to point out.

 

Steps of Faith isn't hard because

 

Raiding is different because of

 

This could just as easily be changed to fit any combination of encounters, dungeons, trials or whatever you want. YOUR experiences don't matter in the scheme of things, because you could have gotten into a lucky pre-made of 7/8 raiders clearing story, or you could have gotten legitimately good players and did a good job.

 

Saying "This is easy" doesn't account for much of anything, especially when the group comp changes with every foray into DF. You cleared T5 before, so you know it: This weekend when you get some time go ahead and flag T5 in the Duty Finder solo, and report back to us how that goes.

 

Ergh, this still comes off as mean. I don't intend for that! I'm just saying what's easy or lucky for one person isn't the same for anyone else. It can quickly turn into an ugly cycle of dismissal.

 

"Lol, you can clear Titan but you can't kill T5?"

"Lol, you can clear T5 but you can't clear T6?"

"Lol, you can clear T7 but you can't clear T9?"

"Lol, you can clear T9 but you can't clear T10?"

"Lol, you can clear T10 but can't clear T11?"

"Lol, you can clear T11 but can't clear T13?"

"Lol, XIV is easy I'm unsubbing all I do is log-in to clear coil and then log out"

[TheLastCandle]

Personally, I'm just amused that the patch nerfing it went live just the day after I volunteered to tank the thing for several groups from my LSes. Would've saved me some grief!

[Kellach Woods]

I'm not arguing it's hard, I'm arguing that even in its nerfed state it'll still be an annoying instance that's just not worth doing.

To do that they'd need :

 

1) Rewards. (Because why would I waste 10-30 minutes of my time doing something for nothing? Everything else in the game has rewards, why not this?)

 

2) No returns (because THAT slows down the fight and is the only way I could imagine resets being made before Vishap reaches the end.)

 

If they fix those, it'll be worth doing again.

[Dravus]

I think they were trying something fresh with the instance. They combined mechanics we'd dealt with already with something new so I figure they were hoping the masses could handle it better than they did.

[Flickering Ember]

I can see why someone who dungeons or raids regularly might be mad with the PUGs and frustrated with the nerf. However, Steps of Faith was not designed for raiders. It is story content and therefore should absolutely be casual content. I don't think it's unreasonable to want people to know what they're doing before the queue. It's just that when everyone has to do this trial in order to see the new content in Heavensward, you're going to get a lot of people who don't do dungeons, don't do raids, and don't know what the etiquette is.

 

It's for this reason I am really glad that they nerfed Steps of Faith. It was a great trial in the sense that it provided a very epic finale. What isn't great about it is its requirement to see the new content. I find it to be a poor choice in general to require anything beyond being level 50 to enjoy the expansion. That is really the source of the frustration though and the reason behind the nerf. Everyone has to do it. No exceptions. So even if you don't give a damn about dungeons, you still have to do it if you want to access new crafting, new abilities, level 60, and new jobs.

[Zyrusticae]

Good!

 

Fuck this stupid trial!

 

I've only been in there three times, but those three times were enough to convince me to quit entirely. I don't pay a monthly fee to get stonewalled by the incompetence of other players, goddammit! At the very least, some kind of incentive would have helped A LOT, but that ship has sailed, apparently.

 

Now, maybe I'll actually get the chance to play Heavensward when it finally releases instead of banging my already-fractured skull against this incredibly bloody brick wall so many times that my brain leaks out and my eyes bleed!

 

As a further 'fuck you' to Square Enix I shall be skipping all of those expensive story cutscenes because I have a bloody MACHINIST to make! DON'T STAND BETWEEN ME AND MY DREAMS, DAMN YOU!!

[Arkghyom]

What's with this game and nerfs? At this point, Hello Kitty Online will become more of a challenge than FFXIV itself!

[Aaron]

stuff

 

Similarly, I'm not trying to go hard on you or anything, you're just doing a good job of exemplifying the thing we're all trying to point out.

 

Steps of Faith isn't hard because

 

Raiding is different because of

 

This could just as easily be changed to fit any combination of encounters, dungeons, trials or whatever you want. YOUR experiences don't matter in the scheme of things, because you could have gotten into a lucky pre-made of 7/8 raiders clearing story, or you could have gotten legitimately good players and did a good job.

 

Saying "This is easy" doesn't account for much of anything, especially when the group comp changes with every foray into DF. You cleared T5 before, so you know it: This weekend when you get some time go ahead and flag T5 in the Duty Finder solo, and report back to us how that goes.

 

Ergh, this still comes off as mean. I don't intend for that! I'm just saying what's easy or lucky for one person isn't the same for anyone else. It can quickly turn into an ugly cycle of dismissal.

 

"Lol, you can clear Titan but you can't kill T5?"

"Lol, you can clear T5 but you can't clear T6?"

"Lol, you can clear T7 but you can't clear T9?"

"Lol, you can clear T9 but you can't clear T10?"

"Lol, you can clear T10 but can't clear T11?"

"Lol, you can clear T11 but can't clear T13?"

"Lol, XIV is easy I'm unsubbing all I do is log-in to clear coil and then log out"

My T5 clear was gotten from DF. Burro understand your point.

 

Yes every raid is different but that still doesn't omit the fact that nothing is hard. All you have to do is stop trying to burn everything and actually do the mechanics. Judging from the replies in this thread that seems to be what everyone has done or witnessed and gotten a surprise when they wiped (PuG people other thsn those here included.)

 

It doesn't take rocket science to know the cannons are there for a reason and what the snares do. If you still have people just trying to burn adds via dps ignoring the cannons then its not that SoF is hard its your group sucks.

 

Edit - And no worries we know there's no negative air in this discussion lol

[Kage]

I've found that the two major things go wrong in Steps is healers getting stomped on by feet or adds. Adds flying around. Two tanks on adds is just... bad times for me. This, to me, is solved in the following combo of ways that I try to explain when I try to clear fights for people in DF, yes I regularly queue into Trials (... just not in-progress because almost all of the time it's already had more than just 1 leave).

 

1. Tank on adds and healer(s) stick around Vishap's front in the middle lane. Not at his backside and not on the sides of Vishap's feet. This makes it easy for the tank to peel healer aggro off. Healer has easy time to heal tank.

2. DPS focus -solely- on Vishap or doing cannons. Do not turn to adds. Stay in middle lane. You should not gain aggro from any add this way, tank can go grab the adds that jet to the cannons.

 

Of course my /p chat is more like

Who's on cannons?

You got the adds tank or should I go?

All right, dps just focus on Vishap.

Cannons remember that they explode (not as bad now??)

Healers, stick with tank as tank gets everything to the front at all times. Stay in the middle lane.

 

The worst thing is knowing your mistakes and having to wait more minutes just so vishap can mow things down and reset. I don't mind no rewards. The inability to wipe and clean it up is the most annoying thing. When the run has gone to shit (healers curb stomped, tank goes down) I get tired of just getting back up to run in to death.

[Warren Castille]

If you still have people just trying to burn adds via dps ignoring the cannons then its not that X is hard its your group sucks.

 

dutyfinder.exe, take two

[Zyrusticae]

If you still have people just trying to burn adds via dps ignoring the cannons then its not that SoF is hard its your group sucks.

EXACTLY. You know how much control I have over how competent the other party members are in a DF run? If they can't grok these simple mechanics, what the hell is even the point in tryimg? I roll the stupid dice every time I sign up for this trial, and frankly, I have had enough. I'm done trying to corral mindless sheep. I don't play video games to deal with that crap.

[TheLastCandle]

As long as people need to clear the story, people are going to queue for Steps. As long as people are queuing for Steps, Trial Roulette will throw people into it. As long as Trial Roulette is throwing people into it, it's going to be run. One of the duty roulettes' functions is to ensure low level/outdated content is being run for those who need it, and it works.

 

I'm not arguing against adding some drops or something to sweeten the pot, but until Triple Triad came out, Cape Westwind didn't have any incentives either for those who had already cleared it. That didn't stop Trial Roulette players from being thrown into my alts' CW party.

[Dravus]

I suppose some people just get frustrated more easily than others. If I end up encountering a bad group I try and explain things clearly and give it another go. If that fails then I usually drop out and try again later.

 

I don't get angry. I don't rant - I pick myself up and work on finding a way to complete it. Usually that involves making use of the party finder, asking for help from some friends or even making it known on this very site that I'm eager to get a particular bit of content over and done with.

[cuideag]

I don't get angry. I don't rant - I pick myself up and work on finding a way to complete it. Usually that involves making use of the party finder, asking for help from some friends or even making it known on this very site that I'm eager to get a particular bit of content over and done with.

 

Thiiiiis. When all else fails, make friends. I believe we even have some linkshells showcased here on the RPC specifically for helping folks clear content.

[Melodia]

 

Thiiiiis. When all else fails, make friends. I believe we even have some linkshells showcased here on the RPC specifically for helping folks clear content.

 

as someone without a static or a group, usually doing content alone, I will say this is not as easy as it seems. When I have asked LSs and friends for help with content I know they have cleared, the answer I usually get aside from silence is a resounding, "Ah can't sorry. Busy. Maybe some other time."

 

Every time.

 

Just offering my experience.

[Flickering Ember]

Before the nerf, everyone but tanks practically died because they couldn't keep out of his feet. (WHY DO PEOPLE DO THAT BY THE WAY? JUST FUCKING FOLLOW HIS FUCKING CIRCLE AND STAY IN THE MIDDLE LANE AND ONLY MOVE SLIGHTLY OUT BECAUSE OF THE AOES OK?)

 

 

Also, lol, hi, that's me. I'm a monk. Not a very good monk but a monk requires a lot of positioning for maximum DPS. Some folks have been able to master this positioning, shifting ever so slightly to the left or right depending on what part of their rotation it is. I have not mastered those precise movements and find that when I need to flank or attack from behind, I need to move a touch more than a more skilled monk. I found during Steps of Faith that I pretty much could not find a spot to flank without getting foot crushed.

 

So at least for monks and maybe dragoons that could be part of the reason why you see people getting killed by that.

[Gegenji]

Yes every raid is different but that still doesn't omit the fact that nothing is hard. All you have to do is stop trying to burn everything and actually do the mechanics. Judging from the replies in this thread that seems to be what everyone has done or witnessed and gotten a surprise when they wiped (PuG people other thsn those here included.)

 

It doesn't take rocket science to know the cannons are there for a reason and what the snares do. If you still have people just trying to burn adds via dps ignoring the cannons then its not that SoF is hard its your group sucks.

 

And therein lies the problem. Notice that when people mentioned having groups that know the mechanics or bring friends, they have very little issues. However, when you draw on the nebulous pool of random skill levels and player types that is the Duty Finder that is not always the case.

 

You will have people who will run in the opposite direct from the cannons when they're on cannon duty. There will be people who fire the dragonkiller before the boss is even shackled. There will be people who tank the adds in the wrong place. There will be DPS who focus more on the adds than on the boss.

 

There will be people who stand in the AoE, pull aggro off the tank, not hit the snares, or get stomped on. And there will be people who will openly and vehemently chew out the folks that do this, adding to the overall negative theme. And there are people who look at all this and say "I don't even want to deal with it" and will bail - meaning the new folk won't have as many people familiar with the fight on hand to help explain or deal with the fight.

 

The fight itself is not the problem beyond multiple mechanics to keep an eye on. It is the people and how they approach a fight with mechanics. And, an effectively arduous punishment for failure since you have to wait to the very end to try again, even if you knew by the second dragonkiller miss that you weren't going to get the boss down.

 

Also, as a side note, it should be pointed out that what is easy or hard varies from person to person. What may seem easy to you may not to someone else, and vice versa. My best example of this is when I was in a college course where I had to help someone CREATE A NEW FOLDER on a computer. Seemed like a complete no-brainer to me, but she had no clue what to do.

 

Alternatively, I point out the level 50 ROGs (not NIN) I remember seeing in the Meridium, level 40-something ACN (not SMN or SCH) in Stone Vigil, and the numerous folks who skip their class quests so they are missing key abilities. Not to mention the numerous NIN I've seen never use Huton.

 

So using a blanket statement like "nothing is hard" is not a fair point to make. To you, perhaps, nothing is hard (I might even think so, but then again I'm a former endgame WoW raider!). To someone else, a couple things might be (micromanaging Eos, for example!). To others, plenty of things might be (poor reaction times leading to eating a lot more AoEs than you think someone would!).

[Dravus]

@Melodia: 

 

Have you tried using this site? Or setting up something through the party finder? Granted it may not be a success every time but if the duty finder isn't working out then it's wise to pursue alternative options.

[Melodia]

 

Thiiiiis. When all else fails, make friends. I believe we even have some linkshells showcased here on the RPC specifically for helping folks clear content.

 

as someone without a static or a group, usually doing content alone, I will say this is not as easy as it seems. When I have asked LSs and friends for help with content I know they have cleared, the answer I usually get aside from silence is a resounding, "Ah can't sorry. Busy. Maybe some other time."

 

Every time.

 

Just offering my experience.

 

Have you tried using this site? Or setting up something through the party finder? Granted it may not be a success every time but if the duty finder isn't working out then it's wise to pursue alternative options.

 

 

Oh I utilize PF a lot....and after a couple hours of waiting and me shouting in each zone for help, only to have three members join who subsequently drop....it's  been a resounding failure as well.

[Warren Castille]

/me gets back on the elitist soapbox.

 

Saying "This game is easy" should automatically link your raid and EX achievement lists.

 

Edit: Along with what % of Echo you cleared them with.

[Dravus]

* Warren Castille gets back on the elitist soapbox.

 

Saying "This game is easy" should automatically link your raid and EX achievement lists.

 

Edit: Along with what % of Echo you cleared them with.

 

It's possible for someone to be an excellent player and not have downed the harder stuff simply because it's pretty hard to find a group to get anything high end done at the best of times, let alone when you're in a completely different timezone to the majority of players. Or due to playing a role that isn't in high demand.

 

You don't need to be a chef to judge a meal. Not saying I necessarily agree with the idea that everything in the game is 'easy' and sure, difficulty is subjective to some extent...but then you'll find people who literally struggle to do even the most simple of tasks and then hide behind the claim that it's all subjective.

[Warren Castille]

It's possible for someone to be an excellent player and not have downed the harder stuff simply because it's pretty hard to find a group to get anything high end done at the best of times, let alone when you're in a completely different timezone to the majority of players. Or due to playing a role that isn't in high demand.

 

You don't need to be a chef to judge a meal.

 

I'm well aware. It just always seems like people who don't have these things on farm are the first ones to talk about how easy they are, but they don't count for them personally because of some reason or other.

 

Judging fugu's preparation isn't the same as saying it's simple to prepare.

 

Edit: Full disclosure, Titan EX nearly drove me to quitting and definitely drove me to drinking.

[Kage]

Before the nerf, everyone but tanks practically died because they couldn't keep out of his feet. (WHY DO PEOPLE DO THAT BY THE WAY? JUST FUCKING FOLLOW HIS FUCKING CIRCLE AND STAY IN THE MIDDLE LANE AND ONLY MOVE SLIGHTLY OUT BECAUSE OF THE AOES OK?)

 

 

Also, lol, hi, that's me. I'm a monk. Not a very good monk but a monk requires a lot of positioning for maximum DPS. Some folks have been able to master this positioning, shifting ever so slightly to the left or right depending on what part of their rotation it is. I have not mastered those precise movements and find that when I need to flank or attack from behind, I need to move a touch more than a more skilled monk. I found during Steps of Faith that I pretty much could not find a spot to flank without getting foot crushed.

 

So at least for monks and maybe dragoons that could be part of the reason why you see people getting killed by that.

If I remember correctly, monks and dragoons (now) do not need the positionals to keep their buffs up. Yes you do not maximize your dps but you do more dps when alive than you do dead. Always.

 

Edit:

Full disclosure, Titan EX nearly drove me to quitting and definitely drove me to drinking.

I quite remember a certain fucking -awesome- bard who could do Titan EX with her eyes closed and while not quite sober.

[Edda]

So does the Shiva mount play the amazing first phase song or that second phase abomination?

 

Please respond, this is a much more important issue than posturing about SoF ever being hard or not.

So.

 

After having to do actual work to find the answer to this question (i.e., playing the actual game) and now knowing that I cannot depend on the RPC to answer the questions that matter, I can confirm that the Shiva mount does indeed play Oblivion, the shittiest primal song. For those of you who were wondering, you're welcome.

 

Due to this outrage, I have cancelled my subscription, uninstalled the game, threw my hard drive in the microwave, and called the police.