A New Primal Approaches

[Warren Castille]

It dawns on me that, at an uninformed glance, you could accomplish most of what you're looking for simply by playing the actual reborn reincarnation of a distant hero without dabbling in the P-word. This eliminates all of the hoops and challenges, and while it removes the Primal word from your template, it makes it a lot less messy to work into functional canon and, more importantly from a roleplay perspective, other people's head-canons and game world.

 

Golden rule as ever is to write what you like to write. We're all playing pretend here anyway.

[Viola]

It dawns on me that, at an uninformed glance, you could accomplish most of what you're looking for simply by playing the actual reborn reincarnation of a distant hero without dabbling in the P-word. This eliminates all of the hoops and challenges, and while it removes the Primal word from your template, it makes it a lot less messy to work into functional canon and, more importantly from a roleplay perspective, other people's head-canons and game world.

 

Golden rule as ever is to write what you like to write. We're all playing pretend here anyway.

 

Well, technically, since Moggle Mog isn't a primal, neither is Memenu as they were both created using the same means. They're more Guardians than anything else.

 

However, I understand that yes, it probably would be easier and there'd be a lot less "red tape" so to speak to go through and other such hurdles.

 

Though, sometimes it's best to try and take the trecherous path, as we may become more enlightened than if we took the safer path.

[Warren Castille]

Replace "primal" with "semi-deity of supernatural undying powers." The intent is the functionally the same.

[Viola]

Replace "primal" with "semi-deity of supernatural undying powers." The intent is the functionally the same.

 

...Wouldn't that mean she'd be unkillable?

 

(tldr reading comprehension issues)

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I feel like I should throw my Garlean-experiment-gone-wrong in her direction. Only primal-ish tendencies. Franz just wants the aether. (Although IC, he's got no idea what exactly is wrong with him. Think.....ultima-weapon aether stealing, but without the abilities)

[Viola]

I feel like I should throw my Garlean-experiment-gone-wrong in her direction. Only primal-ish tendencies. Franz just wants the aether. (Although IC, he's got no idea what exactly is wrong with him. Think.....ultima-weapon aether stealing, but without the abilities)

 

This sounds both amusing and mildly disturbing. I like this idea.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I feel like I should throw my Garlean-experiment-gone-wrong in her direction. Only primal-ish tendencies. Franz just wants the aether. (Although IC, he's got no idea what exactly is wrong with him. Think.....ultima-weapon aether stealing, but without the abilities)

 

This sounds both amusing and mildly disturbing. I like this idea.

 

He turns 1 in RP years soon! Still homesick and shoot-to-kill by his fellow Garleans.

[Cliodhna Eoghan]

He turns 1 in RP years soon! Still homesick and shoot-to-kill by his fellow Garleans.

only by the ones still loyal

 

 

to the op; your idea does sound rather amusing and i'm curious to see how you go about with it, either in some form or another

[Aduu Avagnar]

Replace "primal" with "semi-deity of supernatural undying powers." The intent is the functionally the same.

 

...Wouldn't that mean she'd be unkillable?

 

(tldr reading comprehension issues)

That is correct. A primal is unkillable. When they die their consciousness simply returns to the Aether. And then reform when summoned once more.

 

A Primal is, as Warren said, a semi-deity of supernatural undying powers.

[Viola]

Replace "primal" with "semi-deity of supernatural undying powers." The intent is the functionally the same.

 

...Wouldn't that mean she'd be unkillable?

 

(tldr reading comprehension issues)

That is correct. A primal is unkillable. When they die their consciousness simply returns to the Aether. And then reform when summoned once more.

 

A Primal is, as Warren said, a semi-deity of supernatural undying powers.

 

While the conciousness is undying, the body isn't.

 

However, I do understand the issues that are arising for calling her a Primal.

[Reppu]

I have just oooonnnneeee question.

 

What happens when she is killed? Because, you know, she will be killed. Anyone with any knowledge of the adverse effects Primals cause to Hydaelyn is going to kill her, be it merciful or not.

 

Are your Lalafellin slaves going to immediately re-summon her, despite knowing the whole genocidal traits and 'om nom nom Hydaelyn'?

 

Honestly, you would not be the first, and will not be the last, Primal RPer. And I think, for the most part, none of them have ever answered what they will 'do' when they are hunted down. I think, actually, a lot of them avoided combat as much as possible with varying reasons as to why they would never be attacked.

 

In the end, Primals are antagonists. Even if they were summoned for benign reasons (read: quite often), they are still a threat to the planet. Even if you remove their ability to enslave individuals (Shiva might have not had this capacity, or her host just refused to utilize it), that does not mean you can remove the 'I actively devour the planet'.

 

That is a key primal trait, after all. Maybe if you go the Shiva route (although your backstory does not allow this, plus taking the unique trait of a Main Storyline character is kind of 'Ehhhhh'), but that is largely 'unknown territory'.

 

So, basically, what do you do when a band of adventurers is looming over you with weapons? Keep in mind, they are not in the wrong. You're definitely categorizing yourself as a villain, due to your nature, both conscious and subconsciously.

 

The aetherial signatures of a primal are not hard to catch. I mean, Enkidu was nothing special and he was pinpointed almost immediately on summon. He would definitely have been a 'primal' on the same scale of your lalafell.

 

So, you cannot rationally go undetected, either. So... yeah. What do you do?

[Viola]

I have just oooonnnneeee question.

 

What happens when she is killed? Because, you know, she will be killed. Anyone with any knowledge of the adverse effects Primals cause to Hydaelyn is going to kill her, be it merciful or not.

 

Are your Lalafellin slaves going to immediately re-summon her, despite knowing the whole genocidal traits and 'om nom nom Hydaelyn'?

 

Honestly, you would not be the first, and will not be the last, Primal RPer. And I think, for the most part, none of them have ever answered what they will 'do' when they are hunted down. I think, actually, a lot of them avoided combat as much as possible with varying reasons as to why they would never be attacked.

 

In the end, Primals are antagonists. Even if they were summoned for benign reasons (read: quite often), they are still a threat to the planet. Even if you remove their ability to enslave individuals (Shiva might have not had this capacity, or her host just refused to utilize it), that does not mean you can remove the 'I actively devour the planet'.

 

That is a key primal trait, after all. Maybe if you go the Shiva route (although your backstory does not allow this, plus taking the unique trait of a Main Storyline character is kind of 'Ehhhhh'), but that is largely 'unknown territory'.

 

So, basically, what do you do when a band of adventurers is looming over you with weapons? Keep in mind, they are not in the wrong. You're definitely categorizing yourself as a villain, due to your nature, both conscious and subconsciously.

 

The aetherial signatures of a primal are not hard to catch. I mean, Enkidu was nothing special and he was pinpointed almost immediately on summon. He would definitely have been a 'primal' on the same scale of your lalafell.

 

So, you cannot rationally go undetected, either. So... yeah. What do you do?

 

1. What happens when she is killed?

Like most primals; She's sent back to the Aether. Death is obviously different for Primals, however I do not know if Primals, upon being summoned again, retain the memories of their "past lives".

 

2a. Are your Lalafellin slaves going to immediately re-summon her?

Since they are not Tempered, and the physical body she was given was one of her 'followers' (as the body is a vessel containing a very small amount of her "Primal Strength" and the fact that there's actual limitations to physical flesh) and they are still under Garlean oppression, it'd take some time for the resources required if they weren't already pre-stocked (which is doubtful).

 

2b. Even despite her genocidal traits and threat against Hydaelyn?

She's only genocidal towards those who harm Lalafell. This does not include basic things like name-calling and other such "petty things". While she dislikes Miqo'te and Elves, she's not going to be hostile towards them unless there's an actual reason.

 

3. So basically, what will she do when a band of adventurers is looming over Memenu with weapons?

This is actually a question I've thought about for a fair while. Chances are, such a fight will not only be inevitable, but will not be the only one. If it comes down to it, Memenu will fight. She'll say her piece and if their resolve is to attempt to send her back to the Aether still holds, she will defend herself like any "person" would.

 

 

I honestly am loving these questions, guys. It not only helping me [think], but these questions are very helpful for developing her more "realistically" lore-wise. I honestly thank you for asking them.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Question: Why do [hypotetical Lalafells] pray to her and not say, the Twelve, like most other common Eorzeans?

 

With most groups of intelligent beings in the game, there's a large devotion of followers who pray to summon a Primal.

 

We've seen this idea toyed with between Shiva and Enkidu, however. But in Shiva's case, Iceheart retained her own will. She "became" Shiva, gaining her power, but it wasn't the actual Saint Shiva being summoned to this realm, her own memories and experiences. How do you plan to handle this if a lalafellin host is being used as the vessel?

[Viola]

Question: Why do [hypothetical Lalafells] pray to her and not say, the Twelve, like most other common Eorzeans?

 

With most groups of intelligent beings in the game, there's a large devotion of followers who pray to summon a Primal.

 

We've seen this idea toyed with between Shiva and Enkidu, however. But in Shiva's case, Iceheart retained her own will. She "became" Shiva, gaining her power, but it wasn't the actual Saint Shiva being summoned to this realm, her own memories and experiences. How do you plan to handle this if a lalafellin host is being used as the vessel?

 

1a. Why does a small group pray to her and not say, the Twelve, like most other common Eorzeans?

Loss of faith, a traumatic trigger, etc. The same could be asked for say, The Lambs of Dalamud.

 

1b. And those Primals are also massive, so smaller groups for smaller primals?

 

2. How do you plan to handle this if a Lalafellin host is being used as the vessel?

She "gave up her body" would be the easiest explanation. A sacrifice for the "common good" so to speak. It's a cop-out, but it'd probably be easier than, say, "the cult kidnapped a random lalafell and used her as said sacrifice", or something. The body is a vessel, the flesh a limiter.

[Aduu Avagnar]

Question: Why do [hypothetical Lalafells] pray to her and not say, the Twelve, like most other common Eorzeans?

 

With most groups of intelligent beings in the game, there's a large devotion of followers who pray to summon a Primal.

 

We've seen this idea toyed with between Shiva and Enkidu, however. But in Shiva's case, Iceheart retained her own will. She "became" Shiva, gaining her power, but it wasn't the actual Saint Shiva being summoned to this realm, her own memories and experiences. How do you plan to handle this if a lalafellin host is being used as the vessel?

 

1a. Why does a small group pray to her and not say, the Twelve, like most other common Eorzeans?

Loss of faith, a traumatic trigger, etc. The same could be asked for say, The Lambs of Dalamud.

 

1b. And those Primals are also massive, so smaller groups for smaller primals?

 

2. How do you plan to handle this if a Lalafellin host is being used as the vessel?

She "gave up her body" would be the easiest explanation. A sacrifice for the "common good" so to speak. It's a cop-out, but it'd probably be easier than, say, "the cult kidnapped a random lalafell and used her as said sacrifice", or something. The body is a vessel, the flesh a limiter.

to my knowledge the Lambs of Dalamud are either tempered by said moon, or Voidtouched, so bringing them up as an example may not work.

[Viola]

to my knowledge the Lambs of Dalamud are either tempered by said moon, or Voidtouched, so bringing them up as an example may not work.

 

quick trip through google brings this

 

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Lambs_of_Dalamud

 

however, fair enough.

[Aduu Avagnar]

to my knowledge the Lambs of Dalamud are either tempered by said moon, or Voidtouched, so bringing them up as an example may not work.

 

quick trip through google brings this

 

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Lambs_of_Dalamud

 

however, fair enough.

I'm gunna go with Tempered by Bahamut then (ala the moon) as I believe thats a similar issue with Nael Van Darnus from 1.0 and Coil.

[Viola]

I'm gunna go with Tempered by Bahamut then (ala the moon) as I believe thats the same issue with Nael Van Darnus from 1.0 and Coil.

 

Maybe. I unno.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

to my knowledge the Lambs of Dalamud are either tempered by said moon, or Voidtouched, so bringing them up as an example may not work.

 

quick trip through google brings this

 

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Lambs_of_Dalamud

 

however, fair enough.

I'm gunna go with Tempered by Bahamut then (ala the moon) as I believe thats a similar issue with Nael Van Darnus from 1.0 and Coil.

 

Rather than Bahamut, it sounds like they were worshipping some other demonic entitty (my guess is Void-based) and simply thought that Dalamud was somehow linked to it. (Which turned out to be the Bahamut battery instead).

 

2. How do you plan to handle this if a Lalafellin host is being used as the vessel?

She "gave up her body" would be the easiest explanation. A sacrifice for the "common good" so to speak. It's a cop-out, but it'd probably be easier than, say, "the cult kidnapped a random lalafell and used her as said sacrifice", or something. The body is a vessel, the flesh a limiter.

 

Follow-up question: Is the host conscious? Or would the host become self-aware at the death of the primal? Or is the host, like Shiva, simply calling upon the power of the primal to become said primal?

[Viola]

 

Follow-up question: Is the host conscious? Or would the host become self-aware at the death of the primal? Or is the host, like Shiva, simply calling upon the power of the primal to become said primal?

The host's very soul is no more; a tribute to allow Memenu to move freely. The lack of capability to Temper, let alone use her full powers being a side-effect of a mortal body.

[LiadansWhisper]

 

 

 

3. So basically, what will she do when a band of adventurers is looming over Memenu with weapons?

This is actually a question I've thought about for a fair while. Chances are, such a fight will not only be inevitable, but will not be the only one. If it comes down to it, Memenu will fight. She'll say her piece and if their resolve is to attempt to send her back to the Aether still holds, she will defend herself like any "person" would.

 

I'm just curious as to what she could possibly say to convince anyone not to save the land itself from her existence?

[Sounsyy]

Lambs of Dalamud not tempered, just crazy. Per Fernehalwes:

 

MCKF: The Lambs of Dalamud came after hearing this story and I thought “Yes, perfect!” We had this group that were the remnants of that story from thousands and thousands of years ago when everyone knew about Dalamud and what it was for, they saw them construct it and shoot it into space and knew they had the power to bring it back but then along came the calamity* and people forgot about it. The few people that remained passed it along to their children and the more that happened the more it got diluted. The core remained though that one day Dalamud might come back.

 

MCKF: So you had these crazy people thinking it was some kind of lesser god. Yeah everyone worships Menphina but it’s actually Dalamud, her hound is the one that protects her because she’s the one that’s weak and he’s only going to save the believers. It’s a cult, they’re not driven by reason and logic they’re driven by “That’s what Dad believed in, that’s what grandma believed in.”

 

*Note: The Calamity he's referring to here is the 4th Umbral Calamity, for clarification, where energy siphoned from Dalamud caused the Crystal Tower to send a massive shockwave through the planet and buried the Allagan Empire in a giant earthquake.

[Viola]

 

 

 

3. So basically, what will she do when a band of adventurers is looming over Memenu with weapons?

This is actually a question I've thought about for a fair while. Chances are, such a fight will not only be inevitable, but will not be the only one. If it comes down to it, Memenu will fight. She'll say her piece and if their resolve is to attempt to send her back to the Aether still holds, she will defend herself like any "person" would.

 

I'm just curious as to what she could possibly say to convince anyone not to save the land itself from her existence?

 

That there's far more important things to worry about than a Primal that's actively helping the adventurers do their job, not only destroying other Primals but crushing the Garleans among other things.

[LiadansWhisper]

 

 

 

That there's far more important things to worry about than a Primal that's actively helping the adventurers do their job, not only destroying other Primals but crushing the Garleans among other things.

 

Except she's destroying the planet by existing at all.  I mean, there are no ifs, ands, or buts about that - Primals strip the planet of aether and destroy the land when they are summoned.  Even Good King Moggle Mog and Ramuh (neither of whom are exactly "evil" by nature) had to go because they were destroying the planet.

 

Edited to Add: And wasn't that the issue with the Garleans in the first place? The biggest fear at the time was less that the Garleans would march through and take over (though that was definitely a fear), and more that the Beast Tribes would, out of desperation, summon Primals...which were viewed as worse than an invasion by Garlemald.

 

Maybe I'm misremembering something right here...

[Viola]

 

Except she's destroying the planet by existing at all.  I mean, there are no ifs, ands, or buts about that - Primals strip the planet of aether and destroy the land when they are summoned.  Even Good King Moggle Mog and Ramuh (neither of whom are exactly "evil" by nature) had to go because they were destroying the planet.

 

Edited to Add: And wasn't that the issue with the Garleans in the first place?  The biggest fear at the time was less that the Garleans would march through and take over (though that was definitely a fear), and more that the Beast Tribes would, out of desperation, summon Primals...which were viewed as worse than an invasion by Garlemald.

 

Maybe I'm misremembering something right here...

 

What I'm reading on the FF wiki is that Primals are a threat due to their never-ending want of followers, crystals and Aether to increase their power. If this is correct, Memenu is a "non-threat" which is both unique and...Strange. I'm looking more into it, because I'm only getting this from the Moggle Mog page.