LGBT Characters and Related Groups (Balmung)

[Hammersmith]

May I ask, if you cannot discriminate against a group that holds all of the power, what then do you call the following?

 

Racially motivated attacks against white people?

Sexually motivated attacks against Straight people?

Gender motivated attacks against men?

 

while they may be rare, they do happen, and they are discrimination.

 

However, I agree with your statement regarding never being able to truly feel and understand a form of discrimination if you have not experienced it, that doesn't mean that people can't relate due to being discriminated against in another manner.

 

What us white males experience is classified as NORMAL since we've held the power for so long and so tightly.   Which means as long as anyone else is not getting the same, at all times?  They're the ones being discriminated against.

 

The fact that any action against white people is seen as 'rare' really just highlights the point, especially given recent events.

 

 

1)Racially motivated isn't institutionalized racism.  A black guy can say "Fuck this white guy" and do something.  However when the day comes in court, the overwhelming body of evidence points towards Whitey having the advantage.  Much less if the police show up for...anything...in any situation.  Like I said: You can personally discriminate against white people but when push will come to shove, the law, the country, and the powers that be overwhelmingly favour white people.  The harm is not coming against White people any more than it always has.  

 

2) This is called rape and it's wrong across the board and really shouldn't be part of the discussion?  Unless you want to get into the actual numbers about sexual violence in which case it's overwhelmingly against women and especially other groups like trans in terms of victims to population size.  White males get hurt, yes.  White males are not leading the race because they're not the overwhelming target.  If you want to dig a little deeper the idea that a man can't get raped pulls from the hyper macho institutions we've built up in there.  We're hurting ourselves with the definitions we've helped define.

 

3) I think the points raised in 1 and 2 address this as well.  Hell.  I'm hard pressed to think of a "Gender motivated" attack against men.  It demonstrates a point of just how much power Men have.  We find the idea of there being a group or any institution that would target us for violence to be...laughable.  It isn't there.

 

The fact that there's any push against there being safe spaces is an example of the "party wrecker" mentality that comes with this kind of institutionalized and culturally ingrained problem.

[Tortles]

All right folks. It's not worth arguing where or not there should be one, because there are several opinions for and against.

 

At this point there is a linkshell up. I've added the link as an edit to the original post. Anyone interested should reach out to AquiziTC/Tenrilaux. Whether you want to meet other queer characters, or feel like you want a little safe space, come along. And if you're not interested, then you're not interested.

 

The intent never was to get into any political debates, but to see if there was any LGBT related group, and if there was a desire for one. There is no movement going on here. I would say it's time to break down any debates and just let it go. There are always going to be different opinions and it's not worth having the frustration on the forums.

[Aduu Avagnar]

May I ask, if you cannot discriminate against a group that holds all of the power, what then do you call the following?

 

Racially motivated attacks against white people?

Sexually motivated attacks against Straight people?

Gender motivated attacks against men?

 

while they may be rare, they do happen, and they are discrimination.

 

However, I agree with your statement regarding never being able to truly feel and understand a form of discrimination if you have not experienced it, that doesn't mean that people can't relate due to being discriminated against in another manner.

1)Racially motivated isn't institutionalized racism.  A black guy can say "Fuck this white guy" and do something.  However when the day comes in court, the overwhelming body of evidence points towards Whitey having the advantage.  Much less if the police show up for...anything...in any situation.  Like I said: You can personally discriminate against white people but when push will come to shove, the law, the country, and the powers that be overwhelmingly favour white people.  The harm is not coming against White people any more than it always has.  

 

What we experience is classified as NORMAL since we've held the power for so long and so tightly.   Which means as long as anyone else is not getting the same, at all times?  They're the ones being discriminated against.

 

The fact that any action against white people is seen as 'rare' really just highlights the point, especially given recent events.

 

2) This is called rape and it's wrong across the board and really shouldn't be part of the discussion?  Unless you want to get into the actual numbers about sexual violence in which case it's overwhelmingly against women and especially other groups like trans in terms of victims to population size.  White males get hurt, yes.  White males are not leading the race because they're not the overwhelming target.  If you want to dig a little deeper the idea that a man can't get raped pulls from the hyper macho institutions we've built up in there.  We're hurting ourselves with the definitions we've helped define.

 

3) I think the points raised in 1 and 2 address this as well.  Hell.  I'm hard pressed to think of a "Gender motivated" attack against men.  It demonstrates a point of just how much power Men have.  We find the idea of there being a group or any institution that would target us for violence to be...laughable.  It isn't there.

It isn't institutionalised racism, no, but it is still discrimination. 2 was a typo and was meant to say sexuality, rather than sexually.

 

The point is, that all of these are discriminatory attacks. To state that you cannot discriminate against them is patently false. It may not be institutionalised, but it doesn't mean that it cannot happen.

 

I have seen friends been jeered at and yelled at for attempting to strike up a conversation with a group of women. His motives weren't sexual, nor did he approach in an intimidating manner. He simply wanted to make some new friends.

 

Also, as was stated before, Discriminatory doesn't mean violent. nether does attack.

[Virella]

I wonder if any of the people hear have heard of a world outside America & Europe. White people aren't the majority everywhere in the world. Brushing racism and discrimination off on one group of people, just due to their skintone, is just as painfully racist as a white person bashing onto other skintones. Just as brushing off one sexuality cannot experience discrimination. Heck, the amount of bisexual hatred within the LGBT community should serve as an example.

 

Y'all should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Aduu Avagnar]

I wonder if any of the people hear have heard of a world outside America & Europe. White people aren't the majority everywhere in the world. Brushing racism and discrimination off on one group of people, just due to their skintone, is just as painfully racist as a white person bashing onto other skintones. Just as brushing off one sexuality cannot experience discrimination. Heck, the amount of bisexual hatred within the LGBT community should serve as an example.

 

Y'all should be ashamed of yourselves.

If you're refering to myself, I was simply responding to the claimes RE: discrimination, on the grounds provided by Hammersmith. he used the Straight White Male as an example. I don't believe that he was implying that there were not other groups that hold the power elsewhere int he world, but the one he was dealing with and using was that common to America and certain European nations.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

[[takes out magitek mod device]]

 

Everyone, let's keep this thread on topic and remember the rules.

 

Please do not make personal attacks or call people out. It's OK to disagree. It's not OK with attack someone for their opinion or beliefs.

 

This is a thread on finding/making LGBT groups. Let's keep the topic of race out of it, please.

 

A reminder that the RPC is not here to be a safe-space for anyone. It is here as a resource for Roleplayers. While safe-spaces are totally ok to be made using the RPC as a resource, I would ask that such things b handled in their own threads appropriately.

 

If anyone feels like they might be tempted to post something that would otherwise violate the rules, I would ask to take a small break from the thread. It's a Friday! We've got an Expansion! Take a small break to reflect and find some peace.

 

[[puts away magitek mod device]]

[Hammersmith]

Brtz, error, nothing to see here, per mod and thread owner intentions.

[Tortles]

Edit: Posted before seeing Unnamed Mercenary's post, but leaving it anyway!

 

All right everyone. We've gotten terribly off topic.

I know these are very important issues, whether race, gender, or orientation related. This isn't the place to get into it so intensely.

 

Remember, no one is asking to be secluded or fractured off, but instead being connected with other characters who identify in the LGBT realm, as a means to meet each other, or as a means for players to meet other players who identify this way. Whatever the reason, the option is there for people.

 

People are going to want to get together with similar people. It's human nature. I'm sure there are Au Ra-specific groups that have popped up since Heavensward launch. There are themed free companies for military characters, groups for tavern employees, whatever. 

 

Some of you may not want this, but some of us do. It's all right.

 

If this discussion is going to continue, I would rather it be about peoples LGBT characters and their experiences, both as a character and as a player behind them. Share your advice for others who may not have played one before, or maybe give a little guidance who players who may need a little help. I want to bring this back to something peaceful.

[Gaspard]

And I'm out of this conversation.

 

What they said is true, though. The majority is just that, the majority; they do not have worry about discrimination, certainly not to the extent an honest-to-god minority does.

 

That's not to say that someone cannot be discriminated against if they happen to be straight, white and male, as that would ignore issues such as classism in its entirety. However, it'd still be ultimately incomparable to the likes LGBT people face on a daily basis and that is where the difference lies.

 

This is why we deserve safe spaces free from any potential discrimination. Someone in the majority will never, ever fully comprehend the effect intolerance has on the minority psyche. They just won't and honestly, I'm glad you don't have to put up with it. I'm even envious in a way.

That we have people in this thread willfully ignoring examples of legitimate hate within our community should serve as the ultimate testament to having our needs fulfilled, irregardless if some are unwilling to admit to their socially-born privilege.

 

I'm an Alien in my country. 2nd generation Immigrant from Poland in Germany, faced with racism and bigotry on that regard since I could remember. 

 

Raised by a single mother with little to no income. 'Everything' I have and own is the result of my own hard work since the age of 16-17.

 

Moreso, I work within Security, a job that sees me exposed to racism, cultural tensions between unintegrated foreigners and nationally socialistic germans. I live in a district which struts a 90 percent foreigner population. I grew up in an environment where I'm not part of a minority, I'm, full-out Solo. Germans consider me a foreigner for my heritage (and treated me that way for a while), Foreigners treat me like a nationalistic german because I'm well integrated and happen to tell them what they can and can't do on our grounds. I've been called Nazi, Polak, and whatever else you may imagine.

 

I still don't consider myself an oppressed minority. Why? Because that moment I would feed into that notion and confirm it. I'm not. We have a female Bundeskanzler (Angela Merkel), our foreign policy minister was a gay white male, an important political party in our nation is led by a philipino.

 

 

Now tell me again how i'm part of some entitled, priviledged group. Here in Germany this priviledge simply doesn't exist. The only priviledge that counts here is money, and I clearly don't belong to the upper echelon in that regard.

 

 

[Blue]

When I was in high school, a couple of gay classmates bullied me for being an introvert nerd, so... While the "majority" (in sexual orientation terms) may not face discrimination for their sexual orientation, there will always be cases of discrimination for everyone in one way or another. We're all victims, one just happens to have more media attention than the rest because it's sex-related and people like sex-related topics.

 

Still I think in our current society and age (especially in-game, RL changes by country you're in) these episodes are pretty scarce for any discrimination to occur. I think the only pretty obvious one that is semi-often brought up is the RP=ERP=cyber discord among non-RPers.

 

 

[Altitis Acquired]

All people have the potential of being jerks, no matter their sexual orientation.

[Tortles]

All people have the potential of being jerks, no matter their sexual orientation.

 

Truth. I have a lot of problems with a lot of LGBT organizations and events IRL for similar reasons, and there's a lot I don't care for. I try to find a balance where I can still be connected but not be so immersed that I get frustrated.

 

In real life, I've never met gay men that I like or like me by chance, out and about among my regular interests (generic bars with friends, community events, potlucks, gamer gatherings etc.). I've only met men on websites, gay bars, or gay community events. As much as I would love to say we don't need these things, I have very little to show for avoiding them.

 

The same has been reflected in my RP experiences over the years. FF14's Balmung community is still pretty new to me, so I can't apply my previous experiences to this game presently. And while some will say that relationships don't matter IC, I see tons of partnered characters all over the wiki, and I'm sure many of us wouldn't mind getting some of those relationships.

[Izumi Hyskaris]

My primary character (Amethyst) is a soft butch lesbian woman,and her half-sister (Deidra) is bisexual but mainly interested in males. Among my alts, Jon is a straight male, D’sire is a pansexual drag queen, Streiss and Vivixa are asexual females, and Uta… I don’t know her well enough to say just yet.

 

I feel that my characters have been well-received. Even whenD’sire, a male character with a female miqo’te model, was given the nickname “the trap” and had his performance walked-out on by a couple of folks when he first revealed himself as a drag queen, the players behind those characters made clear distinctions between IC behavior and OOC feelings, so I didn’t feel personally offended even as I felt sympathy for my character. Later, one of those characters became a fan and admirer, and another actually approached D’sire to entertain at their wedding reception and have a song written just for them.

 

As a genetically male, pansexual, genderqueer, kinky person livingas a single mother with a full-time government job (wrap your heads around that, folks!), fellow RPers who have learned of the player behind the character have been nothing but supportive of me. I have not once received any discriminatory comments directed at me by RPers I’ve met on Gilgamesh or Balmung. Non-RPers are a different story; I’ve encountered my share of jerks among them.

 

Ironically, having to tell old PvE friends I’m an RPer now hasfelt like a second coming-out:

“Dude, let’s spam T10 today, c’mon.”

“Sorry, I’m in an RP scene right now.”

“Wtf? Wait, you’re an RPer now? Man… fine, w/e."

“*sigh*”

[Tseren]

If this discussion is going to continue, I would rather it be about peoples LGBT characters and their experiences, both as a character and as a player behind them. Share your advice for others who may not have played one before, or maybe give a little guidance who players who may need a little help. I want to bring this back to something peaceful.

 

My character binds her chest. I spend a lot of time ear marking gear that helps minimize the appearance of a bust. I've also spent a lot of time figuring out how to convey that into RP without broadcasting.

 

In my experience, binding can really hurt - even when done properly. They pull at the shoulders, can change the way you need breathe, make sitting or slouching uncomfortable, and on really bad days, eating can be difficult.

 

So I convey some of this though subtle descriptions on how she breathes and sits, or rubs at sore shoulders, or adjusts a cutting-into-skin strap beneath her outer wear, ect. I didn't want her using cloth strips because of just how damaging that is. (Blood clots, rib cage deformity, ect.) I figured she had commisiooned some tightly fitting compression-styled vests to wear underneath her armor. 

 

It's not a focal point in my writing. I'm not always drawing attention to it or brining it up in repititive actions. But, every once in a while, I'll pepper in an allusion to it.

[Tortles]

My character binds her chest. I spend a lot of time ear marking gear that helps minimize the appearance of a bust. I've also spent a lot of time figuring out how to convey that into RP without broadcasting.

 

Yeah, it sounds challenge, especially in video games where tits are usually hanging out of armor. It's nice when you get the opportunity to work out the subleties and successfully communicate.

 

We have a tendency to associate flamboyancy with homosexuality, and I don't really play flamboyant characters. If I did, I would be forcing myself in order to convey something using stereotypical traits, and I would prefer not to do that. I also don't like to start hitting on characters or making unprovoked sexual comments ("Wouldn't mind having an ale tonight with a pretty lad hue hue hue"). 

 

It also greatly depends on the scene you're in. In groups things tend to get a little chaotic, and there's less opportunity for successful fine details.

[Zyrusticae]

Now tell me again how i'm part of some entitled, priviledged group. Here in Germany this priviledge simply doesn't exist. The only priviledge that counts here is money, and I clearly don't belong to the upper echelon in that regard.

I guess it has to be stated that race and gender privilege are only two forms of privilege, and there are obviously other forms of privilege that can completely overshadow those (with economic privilege obviously being much, much bigger in the world at large).

 

That doesn't mean the two don't exist. It just means you feel the latter MUCH more than you feel the former.

 

It also depends heavily on where you live. If you lived in Ferguson as a black man, for example, I really doubt you'd be denying the existence of racial privilege like this.

 

 

If this discussion is going to continue, I would rather it be about peoples LGBT characters and their experiences, both as a character and as a player behind them. Share your advice for others who may not have played one before, or maybe give a little guidance who players who may need a little help. I want to bring this back to something peaceful.

 

I play an androgynous genderqueer bicurious woman. I don't state as much in-game, because obviously these concepts are not really extant in Eorzea, but it's pretty obvious when anyone interacts with her. She wears whatever she likes whether it's coded as feminine or masculine, wears her hair short, has an unusually androgynous figure (though I'm just lucky in this case that the in-game body models aren't too exaggerated), enjoys cute things as much as she enjoys guns and axes, speaks with an unusual cadence, and generally just confuses the hell out of people.

 

The thing is, it's not that it's a goal for her or anything like that. That's just who she is. And that's something that's super-important, I feel. In this world of binary gender it's too easy for people to get beat down because they showed interest in things that are 'improper' for their assigned sex, such that they can never really express themselves as much as they express what society has deemed to be an acceptable version of themselves. T'rahnu, on the other hand, has a background such that she just doesn't give a toss. In many ways, she's me liberating myself from my real-world constraints and putting all that could be into a single character (note: yes, I am well aware of the dangers of IC-OOC bleed here, and I assure you I won't take things personally if you're critical of her personality or what-have-you).

 

Without that degree of separation between the real-world and the fantasy world, I just couldn't possibly do something like this. It's a bit sad, but that's how it is for me. And it was really only through my own created characters that I truly began to understand this side of myself. I think roleplaying has a lot of potential for things like this - for self-discovery and self-actualization. That's a wonderful thing, isn't it?

[K'nahli]

If this discussion is going to continue, I would rather it be about peoples LGBT characters and their experiences, both as a character and as a player behind them. Share your advice for others who may not have played one before, or maybe give a little guidance who players who may need a little help. I want to bring this back to something peaceful.

 

Quoting for emphasis in case it was missed.

 

 

 

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Moderator Note:

 

For the sake of not removing content that people spent time typing up, a few posts following Unnamed Mercenary's direction were spoilered for continuing the discussion previous as they likely had begun writing beforehand.

 

However, please keep all future posts on topic as per the OP's personal intent for this thread.

[111]

So my old character was a seeker female, and she was talking to a keeper male.

 

He confided to her that his clan harassed him and drove him out because he couldn't perform with the women. My character mocked him for it and laughed, then he broke down crying in the quicksand.

 

Sorry anonymous gay keeper, my character was a jerk! That's my gay character discussion.

[Tortles]

I play an androgynous genderqueer bicurious woman. I don't state as much in-game, because obviously these concepts are not really extant in Eorzea, but it's pretty obvious when anyone interacts with her. She wears whatever she likes whether it's coded as feminine or masculine, wears her hair short, has an unusually androgynous figure (though I'm just lucky in this case that the in-game body models aren't too exaggerated), enjoys cute things as much as she enjoys guns and axes, speaks with an unusual cadence, and generally just confuses the hell out of people.

 

The thing is, it's not that it's a goal for her or anything like that. That's just who she is. And that's something that's super-important, I feel. In this world of binary gender it's too easy for people to get beat down because they showed interest in things that are 'improper' for their assigned sex, such that they can never really express themselves as much as they express what society has deemed to be an acceptable version of themselves. T'rahnu, on the other hand, has a background such that she just doesn't give a toss. In many ways, she's me liberating myself from my real-world constraints and putting all that could be into a single character (note: yes, I am well aware of the dangers of IC-OOC bleed here, and I assure you I won't take things personally if you're critical of her personality or what-have-you).

 

FF14 characters and appearances are pretty androgenyous overall, except for a few details. With a few exceptions, everyone looks pretty metrosexual, and everyone pretty much has access to the same revealing or unrevealing armor. There's also not as much of a focus on gender roles, with plenty of female guards, male casters and the like. I only really notice gender being a thing with Miqo'te, but I haven't played through all of the content.

 

It's interesting how often we apply our real world experiences to roleplay, even though we don't have to. Even if you don't personally care, you still have to consider how other players are going to interpret your character.

 

I think no matter what anyone says, there's always going to be a IC-OOC bleed, and it's all right to use your character to express and feel things that you may not get to IRL. For a long time in my life, RP interactions helped with a lot of my social needs until I became more active and comfortable in person. I might even say that RPing as a gay character was part of my coming out process, almost like practice.

[Cavistus]

I've never really understood why people put "straight" or "gay" in their RP search comments. My character is not going to know or care about your character's sexuality. It's completely useless information to anyone who is not looking for ERP.

 

Allister Dedrick

Favourite Colour: Red

RGBY Friendly!

[Dat Oni]

I've never really understood why people put "straight" or "gay" in their RP search comments. My character is not going to know or care about your character's sexuality. It's completely useless information to anyone who is not looking for ERP.

 

Allister Dedrick

Favourite Colour: Red

RGBY Friendly!

 

Implications of your statement:

 

1. LGBT characters are looking for sexual relationships only.

2. Demisexuality can never exist.

3. Avoiding the opposite sex because of lack of sexual interest is not valid.

4. No player would like to know a character's orientation ahead of time so they don't ICly hit on their character only to have it amount to nothing but embarrassment.

 

And so on.

 

I'm fairly sure that doesn't count as useless information.

[Cavistus]

 

Implications of your statement:

 

1. LGBT characters are looking for sexual relationships only.

2. Demisexuality can never exist.

3. Avoiding the opposite sex because of lack of sexual interest is not valid.

4. No player would like to know a character's orientation ahead of time so they don't ICly hit on their character only to have it amount to nothing but embarrassment.

 

And so on.

 

I'm fairly sure that doesn't count as useless information.

 

1. strawman

2. strawman. also, i roleplay an asexual character

3. what

4. strawman, but you do realize this kind of falls into the ERP category right

[Tortles]

I've never really understood why people put "straight" or "gay" in their RP search comments. My character is not going to know or care about your character's sexuality. It's completely useless information to anyone who is not looking for ERP.

 

Your character may not, but others do. There are quite a few people playing characters in relationships, and others who would like to be in one. I've seen at least one wiki template that include social ratings for friends, partners, and love interests. So yes, it is relevant.

 

Some people are going to ERP, and others prefer the fade-to-black approach. Either way, it's up to the players to decide what they're happy with.

[Gone.]

1. strawman

2. strawman. also, i roleplay an asexual character

3. what

4. strawman, but you do realize this kind of falls into the ERP category right

 

Is it really a strawman if you, the original poster, just won't admit that it's what you implied? It may not have been your intention, but that's very much how it came off.

 

Now if you must know why I tend to make my LGBT friendliness open (though I do not have it mentioned in my player search as there just isn't enough room), there are two reasons:

 

1. So people dealing with similar issues can feel safe knowing that I will neither judge them or their characters for sexual orientation or gender identity.

 

2. Because I get tired of having a number of male characters making not-so-vague attempts at straightening Vetiver or Foxglove's gay away when they will never, ever have a chance to begin with. It's a waste of my time and frankly demeaning, especially when I am actively seeking RP partners willing to provide companionship on a number of levels.

 

So yes, just because it's useless to you doesn't mean it isn't to me or someone else. Speak for yourself and not others, yes?

[Dat Oni]

1. strawman

2. strawman. also, i roleplay an asexual character

3. what

4. strawman, but you do realize this kind of falls into the ERP category right

 

Is it really a strawman if you, the original poster, just won't admit that it's what you implied? It may not have been your intention, but that's very much how it came off.

 

Now if you must know why I tend to make my LGBT friendliness open (though I do not have it mentioned in my player search as there just isn't enough room), there are two reasons:

 

1. So people dealing with similar issues can feel safe knowing that I will neither judge them or their characters for sexual orientation or gender identity.

 

2. Because I get tired of having a number of male characters making not-so-vague attempts at straightening Vetiver or Foxglove's gay away when they will never, ever have a chance to begin with. It's a waste of my time and frankly demeaning, especially when I am actively seeking RP partners willing to provide companionship on a number of levels.

 

So yes, just because it's useless to you doesn't mean it isn't to me or someone else. Speak for yourself and not others, yes?

 

I'm sorry, but I want to make sure I'm reading this right...

 

Did he just call me a strawman for not agreeing with him?