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Question on magic in battle


Riven

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Specifically when it comes...I guess to the major magical classes of FFXIV.  Riven I play as IC Arcanist, but I've had the understanding that basically should she lose her grimoire in combat or if it's knocked away from her, she's down a significant amount of raw power to fuel her spells.  Is that legitimate lore, and if so, does it apply to the other magical classes?

 

If it is lore, is it possible to say that an Arcanist can have a few 'cantrips' on their person that doesn't require power from the grimiore?  Or have enough training to be able to have a surplus of aether power to use some spells until they can get their book back?  So far I had the thought to counter that, Riven carries a smaller spellbook on her person with just the basics needed.  And she certainly does have the training and skill to be able to use cantrips/have a surplus of aether.

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As far as I know, all spell casting classes require an implement of some sort to act as a catalyst through which they cast their spells. Without one they are more or less helpless with magic. Its not like D&D where spell casters have "cantrips". I could be mistaken though and I'm certain someone will say so.

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I hope we get a wild Sounsyy to repost some the good stuff already written about how magic is supposed to work in the game, but for a fast, unsourced (because I should be working at work :P ) repsonse is that it's a "it depends" type of thing.

 

Mages all manipulate/amplify aether through the use of their casting tool of choice.

 

Arcanists use geometries/runes with aether-conductive ink. The better the ink, the better the conductivty. And the better the conductivity, the better the image of the geometries, which is the real spellcasting.

 

Conjurors basically cast through borrowing nature's power, channelled through well, a piece of nature. That's why many of their tools are made from plants/flowers/wood,etc.

 

THaumaturges use their internal aether reserves and cast though channeling that aether through bones and stones, often aspected. There are apparently sacrimonial jeweled daggers that can be used for casting!

 

--

 

So what happens if a mage loses their amplifier tool? Well, their spells probably fail or aren't at potent. Maybe the carbuncle comes out the size of a mouse and it won't listen to commands. Or maybe that cure only makes a scab instead sealing a cut. Or that fireball comes out as a puff of smoke.

 

In the past, some people have speculated that an Arcanist could possible hard-code a spell onto themselves with a tattoo. (Headcanon territory!)

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I'm not sure that's a good idea. The dangers of excess metal in the blood stream is too real.

 

What I have done is had my character keep pot of expensive ink concealed on his person. When all else fails, he can draw with his finger for a crude spell.

 

He has also scratched an arcanima into sand for an incredibly weak spell under the assumption that sand has trace metallic properties.

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A'rklonn uses what he calls a 'unified magic focus' since he's trained in several magical disciplines. he isn't that great a conjurer, and has very little healing knowledge; most of his knowledge in it is elemental/offensive, but that's sort of off topic. He has a staff he crafted from proper thaumaturgical components, but it's hollowed out in the central 'staff' area. Inside he has a wooden focus that allows him to use his Conjury, and has carved the inside and outside of the staff during construction all over with geometries inked in. The crystal also forms the geometries, cycling through them using glamour imaging methods, similar in a way to Freed Justine's 'Jutsushiki' from Fairy Tail, which is very, very similar to Arcanima in a lot of ways with the inks made into the forging itself as a partial catalyst.

 

 

The tradeoff to this is that a universal focus is a: expensive to make, b: very time consuming to construct, and c: as it acts as a focus for multiple types of magic, more stress is put on it. So he keeps other foci on him in a pinch, like a ceremonial dagger, a small cliffnote arcanima book for basic spells (diary sized), and a simple unworked wooden focus for his conjury if his unified focus happens to crack or break under the stress. The smaller foci will naturally not produce magic as destructive or effective, but can generally handle normal targets long enough for the problem to be solved.

 

As far as inked in tattoos, it is entirely possible. However, a better alternative for those that want to go this method, is the Riddler method. That is, a robe with all your inking done on the inside of your clothing. Transcribe your better spells on the cloth with special inks, inside the outfit. That way it looks like you're disarmed, or are not carrying a focus, but in reality your clothing actually is the focus. You might only be able to put a limited number of spells on such a thing, but in a pinch, it could save your life if your book burns or is damaged. The key to using magic in battle is resource and battlefield control. Mages are smart; a good mage always has a backup. Just like a good fighter always has a dagger in his boot or something hidden in his clothing in case he loses his sword or axe, a good mage will have a smaller focus or alternative focus item on his person in case his primary one is removed form his possession.

 

In the instances I just choose to say a smaller focus can only handle a certain number of uses, or maybe it can only use certain spells. But that's up to the roleplayers in question, so it's situational. Go with what works for the group, more or less. But don't sell your mage short. No caster is going to be dumb enough to not carry backup foci. Also, if we pay attention to the MSQ (slight spoiler here), Y'shtola casts without holding on to her focus (It's still on her belt), meaning you only technically need to have it on your person, but that's likely only if you're trained enough. I'm guessing that 'holding' the focus is a method that makes the casting easier, but when you're stronger, you just need it there in contact with you in one way or another. That's my headcanon anyway.

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In the past, some people have speculated that an Arcanist could possible hard-code a spell onto themselves with a tattoo. (Headcanon territory!)

 

My magecat has done this, though it was with scarification rather than a tattoo. The scars serve as the guides and her own aether serves as the magic which would normally run in the enchanted ink. It's a protection spell, similar to the Echo but not as potent and without the translation bit, and it is in constant effect. The spell is a giant rune that is scarred into her back, and was carved using a tiny tangible "blade" of aether by her husband.

 

Is it possible by lore? Dunno, it's neither explicitly denied or supported. But I do it anyway, because it's fucking metal.

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a small cliffnote arcanima book for basic spells (diary sized)

 

As far as inked in tattoos, it is entirely possible. However, a better alternative for those that want to go this method, is the Riddler method. That is, a robe with all your inking done on the inside of your clothing. Transcribe your better spells on the cloth with special inks, inside the outfit. That way it looks like you're disarmed, or are not carrying a focus, but in reality your clothing actually is the focus. You might only be able to put a limited number of spells on such a thing, but in a pinch, it could save your life if your book burns or is damaged. The key to using magic in battle is resource and battlefield control. Mages are smart; a good mage always has a backup. Just like a good fighter always has a dagger in his boot or something hidden in his clothing in case he loses his sword or axe, a good mage will have a smaller focus or alternative focus item on his person in case his primary one is removed form his possession.

...

 

Ye gods man O_O :bouncy::bouncy:  I had already had the idea of Riven having a small book on her person as a backup, but the robe idea is FRICKING BRILLIANT.

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Would a Thaumaturge wearing a glove with a jewel embedded into it be able to seemingly cast magic from their hands? You've got all the bone you need right inside your arm, why not just cut out the middle man (the staff) and just cast directly from your hand with a jewel?

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If Blood loses the books on his person, he resorts to crude conjury using whatever bit of nature he can scrounge up. He carries a little truncheon on him as well, but if he loses that he's locked out of what thaumaturgy he's capable of. 

 

He DOES possess a tattoo of runes on his arm, but that's only for one spell (SWIFTCAST LOL) that pulls on his own reservoirs. Take away his foci and he's very much less effective as a caster.

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Would a Thaumaturge wearing a glove with a jewel embedded into it be able to seemingly cast magic from their hands? You've got all the bone you need right inside your arm, why not just cut out the middle man (the staff) and just cast directly from your hand with a jewel?

 

It's a bit of a lazy cop-out (My mage, capable of throwing giant explosions with his mind, can never be unarmed without you cutting off my hands!) but it could probably work if someone really wanted it to.

 

To sound a lot harsher than I'm intending to, that sort of loophole abuse reeks of someone wanting advantages without drawbacks.

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Would a Thaumaturge wearing a glove with a jewel embedded into it be able to seemingly cast magic from their hands? You've got all the bone you need right inside your arm, why not just cut out the middle man (the staff) and just cast directly from your hand with a jewel?

That slick sounds like it'd hurt.

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My worry about Fabric arcanima is that frabric moves and stretches while paper does not. What happens if an angle is suppose to be a 45 degree angle but slight motion causes the fibers to pulls and shift it to a 46 degree angle? The spell could easily go wrong.

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Would a Thaumaturge wearing a glove with a jewel embedded into it be able to seemingly cast magic from their hands? You've got all the bone you need right inside your arm, why not just cut out the middle man (the staff) and just cast directly from your hand with a jewel?

 

While not directly stated in the game, if we look at the crafted items and their explanation through the GSM quests, I don't think using the bones inside ones body would act as a proper point of amplification. (Not to mention, it's still alive and you'd have to push all that aether through the softer flesh too).

 

So a bare hand for "bone" would probably not work out. But a jewel-encrusted glove? I don't see why not? If staves and wands and daggers are allowed, I can't see how a glove might act as any different.

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All these "runes on gloves" is giving me a Full Metal Alchemist vibe...

 

I don't think a small little rune circle would get an Arcanist outta trouble nor have such flexibility, but yes, similar vibe.

 

Have you not seen all the people named "Kirito", "Asuna", "Eren", "Mikasa", "Jaegar", "Sakura", "Sasuke", and/or "Uchiha" in the game though? Anime fans. They are EVERYWHERE.

 

 

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Would a Thaumaturge wearing a glove with a jewel embedded into it be able to seemingly cast magic from their hands? You've got all the bone you need right inside your arm, why not just cut out the middle man (the staff) and just cast directly from your hand with a jewel?

 

It's a bit of a lazy cop-out (My mage, capable of throwing giant explosions with his mind, can never be unarmed without you cutting off my hands!) but it could probably work if someone really wanted it to.

 

To sound a lot harsher than I'm intending to, that sort of loophole abuse reeks of someone wanting advantages without drawbacks.

 

That's good. I like trying to think of the most off the wall combat styles for hypothetical characters that I will never make. The RP community can rest easy knowing that these characters will either never see the light of day or only appear as a one off villain in a private RP event.

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My worry about Fabric arcanima is that frabric moves and stretches while paper does not. What happens if an angle is suppose to be a 45 degree angle but slight motion causes the fibers to pulls and shift it to a 46 degree angle? The spell could easily go wrong.

Point.  That could probably be countered by inscribing the spell on a paper pinned inside the clothes?  Or if the spell is simple enough-beginner even that it's forgiving of such mistakes?  Or maybe special spell-fabric?

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I feel like the main question to ask for clever magical workarounds, such as spellcasting gloves, is this:

 

If it's so much better / easier to use / has less drawbacks / makes you look cooler / even possible in the first place, then why haven't tons of people thought of and started doing it yet?

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I feel like the main question to ask for clever magical workarounds, such as spellcasting gloves, is this:

 

If it's so much better / easier to use / has less drawbacks / makes you look cooler / even possible in the first place, then why haven't tons of people thought of and started doing it yet?

 

This is applicable to any shortcut anyone comes up with for anything in terms of creative writing and roleplay.

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I feel like the main question to ask for clever magical workarounds, such as spellcasting gloves, is this:

 

If it's so much better / easier to use / has less drawbacks / makes you look cooler / even possible in the first place, then why haven't tons of people thought of and started doing it yet?

 

This is applicable to any shortcut anyone comes up with for anything in terms of creative writing and roleplay.

 

Technically yes.

 

But whether or not it applies well depends on the situation. For example, perhaps using a glove does not allow for as powerful / as precise power channeling as a staff does, or maybe you run the risk of setting your hand on fire if you try something. That provides reasonable incentive for the Usual Way to see more use.

 

If something is just plainly "The Best!" then there's really no reason for anyone to use anything else, and that's where problems arise regarding why people aren't already doing it.

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I feel like the main question to ask for clever magical workarounds, such as spellcasting gloves, is this:

 

If it's so much better / easier to use / has less drawbacks / makes you look cooler / even possible in the first place, then why haven't tons of people thought of and started doing it yet?

 

Because they just invented it?

Because they haven't yet patented the method?

Because they haven't taught it to anyone else, yet?

Because the creation of the workaround is a trade secret?

Because it's difficult for someone else to replicate?

Because it's tied to their person, somehow?

 

And so on and so forth?

 

...Was this a rhetorical question?

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I feel like the main question to ask for clever magical workarounds, such as spellcasting gloves, is this:

 

If it's so much better / easier to use / has less drawbacks / makes you look cooler / even possible in the first place, then why haven't tons of people thought of and started doing it yet?

 

Because they just invented it?

Because they haven't yet patented the method?

Because they haven't taught it to anyone else, yet?

Because the creation of the workaround is a trade secret?

Because it's difficult for someone else to replicate?

Because it's tied to their person, somehow?

 

And so on and so forth?

 

...Was this a rhetorical question?

 

In this case, no. "Gem on glove" would be something would have thought of immediately (roleplayers have been tinkering with handcasting since the game launched 5 years ago, and Thaumaturgy is older than that by eons) and if it worked, it'd be the norm.

 

Edit, @Oli: If something replaces a known ability, it becomes the norm. Handcasting with gloves is certainly doable, but as you interpret it would never replace traditional staves/wands.

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