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Your thoughts on jump potions?

Parth Makeo

By Parth Makeo,
in FFXIV Discussion

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Aedan Marceaux

Aedan Marceaux

Posted
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As with Valence, outside of the relic weekly quest, expert is all I run anymore. Those tome rewards, to me and many others, aren't really worth the headache of running old, generally bring content.

 

Now, I'm not saying it's an end all type situation, but I imagine it is still a concern of theirs. The very fact that you guys are saying "they'll find a way to make people run it again" is evidence itself. Yes, I'm sure they would were it an issue, but that is still time and resources spent on "how do we make people want to do old boring stuff again" versus "what cool new things can we implement?" Of course, I'm aware there may well be separate teams on either project to offset the loss of resources a bit, but still.

 

As to the Atma fate farming bit, outside of the first month maybe... I've not really seen too many fate parties save for the occasional few in the PF. Turns out to be more of a bandaid than a fix, really. Same with the Qarn thing. So now all of the capped players have to run it one more time... a large chunk of which are likely running it with their (likely also capped) friends.

 

*shrug* Again, not arguing against jump potions... I personally want them. Just mentioning a possible concern.

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Cassandra

Cassandra

Posted
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To be perfectly honest, I feel the MSQ does very little to actually teach people how to play their jobs, especially given the rotation you'll eventually need for most DPS. Not to mention, with PotD, fates and general EXP boosts, getting a job up to 60 doesn't require much more than time. In fact, I had Dark Knight at 60 before I even bothered with Provoke. I just dragged it through Vanu and Gnath fates and the occasional Leveling-- basically any content where I wouldn't actually need Provoke. I learned how to play the job entirely through Youtube guides. 

 

As for only allowing people to use a skip potion once they already have a job at 60. That effectively defeats the purpose. People want to skip the MSQ due to the sheer amount of fetch quests, not the leveling process. Another thing to consider is by trimming quests, they devs would need to rewrite and reanimate whole scenes to maintain a cohesive narrative. Whatever work they do on ARR and Heavensward comes out of Stormblood's budget. Essentially, they'd be tweaking content most of us will never even see. 

 

And that's more or less my reasons for supporting a jump potion. Allow people who aren't interested in the story to play the game as they fancy and for those who are to take their time. Will it affect Duty Finder? Initially, yes. But things will inevitably sort themselves out once people who couldn't care less about improving move on to the next "big thing."

 

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I don't think they should be a thing. I understand their purpose in countries like China, where the subscription model is different, but anywhere else - no thank you. Whether it's skipping to 50/60 or just getting a pass through MSQ, new players should have to do it all. I would be fine with a one character, one job boost ala Legion when we're six expansions deep, but we're nowhere near that point as of yet.

 

That being said... bypassing MSQ restrictions on alts should absolutely be a thing. Have a character that's max level and already done X amount of MSQ? Then any alts on that account should be able to waltz into Ishgard in their level one skivvies(they'll still have to level of course). I also think that should be standard, not the result of some $10 potion. But that will never happen.

 

FFXIV doesn't have the same luxury as WoW to wait four or six expansions. The market has long since changed and people nowadays want to consume content immediately. Most new players are not going to slog through nearly 600 quests just to access Stormblood. They'll pick up the latest MMO or move to another game genre entirely.

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111

111

Posted
Posted

Parts of the 2.0 MSQ are horribly boring and grindy and no one should be subjected to them.

 

If Square doesn't allow people to skip to at least 3.0, then the game will die because no new players will want to do 10-20 hours of cutscenes and fetch quests after they hit 50 just so they can get to the cool new area and punch garleans/dragons.

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allgivenover

allgivenover

Posted
Posted

Post is in Japanese and it's a lot to translate... but from the looks at it they've thought a lot about how they're going to do this. Yoshi is not confirming it's happening I don't think, but I think they intend to and saying it's still a might is just a way to cover their ass in the unlikely case they change their minds.

 

Unfortunately I cannot link it here directly, but here is the reddit topic where it's being discussed.

 

reddit post

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Dravus

Dravus

Posted
Posted

It does sound like they're likely to go ahead with it based on the rough translation and the language that they've used throughout discussions regarding the item(s) in question. Despite the very mixed feedback in regards to the implementation of the cash shop, for instance, it ended up going ahead and increasing liberties have been taken with that - all in the name of things being completely optional.

 

I'd prefer them to be open and honest instead of giving the illusion of choice if so. They've already largely ignored the negative feedback in regards to how European players were screwed over by the recent promotion items that were much, much more readily available to American and Japanese players. So far they've done nothing of note to remedy that particular situation.

 

So I can't help but think that they plan to go ahead with this no matter how mixed or negative the feedback happens to be. It's not like there isn't going to be a shortage of people purchasing the item(s) in question, after all - and Square Enix are particularly keen on profit even if it has negative consequences.

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Leggerless

Leggerless

Posted
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  Extremely rough JP -> EN translation (Reveal hidden contents)
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Val

Val

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  Extremely rough JP -> EN translation (Reveal hidden contents)
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111

111

Posted
Posted

My only negative feeling about it, is that if it's really such an issue, just give new players the option to skip the MSQ for free.

 

Why charge someone extra money because you're realizing there are flaws in your game design.

 

I sort of get the logic, in that SE is missing out on a month or two of sub money when they would be leveling and doing MSQ. I still find it a little shady. Instead of saying "Oh you have to spend weeks leveling and doing quests to get to where I am so we can play together"

 

you'll have to say

 

"You have to spend another 50 dollars after you buy the game" 

 

It doesn't really fix the problem Yoshi-P describes, that the investment for new players can be too high, and people quit before they get to the new stuff. Now they're just replacing time with money. Basically this change only helps your rich friends play with you (unless they're giving out them free with the expansion or something).

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Max

Max

Posted
Posted

I'd love jump potions and I've been anticipating for them.

 

I also think the 'No jump potions b/c XYZ won't have the skill!' and 'No jump potions b/c they need to immerse themselves in the story and world!' arguments are bogus. Some people just want to get on and play with their friends, and not suffer through a million cutscenes and countless hide-and-seek quests with moogles.

" Slay 0/5 Ixal Chieftans! "

" Gather 0/10 Moongrass! "

 

Completing these quests ad nauseam won't make you a better player.

 

And like several other games that offer jump potions, you can simply implement some sort of in-game tutorial for players that level jump.

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Kilieit

Kilieit

Posted
Posted

Maybe the implementation of the level-jump potion to the rest of the regions will imply the creation of level 30 / 50 entries to the Hall of the Novice like I've wanted since the Hall of the Novice was introduced... :Ic

 

(My hopes aren't high, but I'd really love that to be a thing. 30 and 50 are really the places where the complexity and difficulty of both your abilities, and the situations you use them in, step up. At sync from 15, Novice Hall can't teach you about so much stuff - aggro dumps, tank swaps (+ xclassed Provoke), combat resurrections (+ xclassed Swiftcast)...)

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Edda

Edda

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My only negative feeling about it, is that if it's really such an issue, just give new players the option to skip the MSQ for free.

 

Why charge someone extra money because you're realizing there are flaws in your game design.

This.

 

If the problem is quest bloat and just overall game design, charging people to 'skip all that' is stupid as all hell. Doesn't even matter how expensive they are - 5, 10, 20, nobody should have to pay to get past the drawn out and monotonous parts of the game.

 

Condense the MSQ and cut out all the filler fetch quests (this would take a crap ton of work though so that will never happen). Lock expansion content behind level and not MSQ progress. Remove MSQ requirements entirely. Or, alternatively, gate stuff behind only the x.0 MSQ. Allow people the option to do x.1 and on MSQ if they want, but a quick summary and an option to bypass slogging through 10 extra hours of drawn out story. I don't know. Something. Anything. Anything but 20$ jump potions.

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Silmanos

Silmanos

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Posted

Honestly I dislike the idea of jump potions, what is the point of playing a story driven game if you are skipping through the story? Getting through the MSQ is so laughably easy the only thing that slows you down is the queues. I've gotten a character from 1-60 in three weeks with casual play and stopping to RP. Granted I was a healer so my queues were really short. Its taking a bit longer for my next alt that I am going through on. The biggest issue is all of the things that you have to do for those who can't afford the jump potions or don't want to. All of a sudden that 15 min queue for Shiva HM becomes a 45 minute queue time, and those without the funds aside from the amount to pay 15/mo are left with the sit around till you are dead in a queue or just quit. I can tell you how most will respond to that.

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111

111

Posted
Posted
  Quote

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My only negative feeling about it, is that if it's really such an issue, just give new players the option to skip the MSQ for free.

 

Why charge someone extra money because you're realizing there are flaws in your game design.

This.

 

If the problem is quest bloat and just overall game design, charging people to 'skip all that' is stupid as all hell. Doesn't even matter how expensive they are - 5, 10, 20, nobody should have to pay to get past the drawn out and monotonous parts of the game.

 

Condense the MSQ and cut out all the filler fetch quests (this would take a crap ton of work though so that will never happen). Lock expansion content behind level and not MSQ progress. Remove MSQ requirements entirely. Or, alternatively, gate stuff behind only the x.0 MSQ. Allow people the option to do x.1 and on MSQ if they want, but a quick summary and an option to bypass slogging through 10 extra hours of drawn out story. I don't know. Something. Anything. Anything but 20$ jump potions.

 

Agreed. 

 

I don't have a problem with people not having to do the horribly dumb and long 2.0-2.5 MSQ. It is good in parts, but those parts could be distilled down to a few hours of questing and cutscenes. 

 

Selling the jump potions is better than nothing but it's a lazy solution, and implies that the MSQ is a penance. A tax on poorer players. 

 

It's like a F2P game tactic where you have to wait 4 hours before you can do the next fun thing, but you can spend money to get it faster. If they have any respect for the design of their leveling and questing process they shouldn't treat it like this.

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Cassandra

Cassandra

Posted
Posted

Kilieit

Maybe the implementation of the level-jump potion to the rest of the regions will imply the creation of level 30 / 50 entries to the Hall of the Novice like I've wanted since the Hall of the Novice was introduced... :Ic

 

(My hopes aren't high, but I'd really love that to be a thing. 30 and 50 are really the places where the complexity and difficulty of both your abilities, and the situations you use them in, step up. At sync from 15, Novice Hall can't teach you about so much stuff - aggro dumps, tank swaps (+ xclassed Provoke), combat resurrections (+ xclassed Swiftcast)...)

 

They actually have considered a Hall of the Intermediate, which would specifically focus on learning your rotation. While I doubt they teach a raid equivalent one, it'd at least be better than what we have now. With any hope, they do something similar to WoW's Battlegrounds. After using their version of a skip, you're immediately tossed into an area and unlock your skills by using them. You're then shown how to execute them properly and have to do so or you've allowed to start playing.

 

  Quote

  Quote

My only negative feeling about it, is that if it's really such an issue, just give new players the option to skip the MSQ for free.

 

Why charge someone extra money because you're realizing there are flaws in your game design.

This.

 

If the problem is quest bloat and just overall game design, charging people to 'skip all that' is stupid as all hell. Doesn't even matter how expensive they are - 5, 10, 20, nobody should have to pay to get past the drawn out and monotonous parts of the game.

 

Condense the MSQ and cut out all the filler fetch quests (this would take a crap ton of work though so that will never happen). Lock expansion content behind level and not MSQ progress. Remove MSQ requirements entirely. Or, alternatively, gate stuff behind only the x.0 MSQ. Allow people the option to do x.1 and on MSQ if they want, but a quick summary and an option to bypass slogging through 10 extra hours of drawn out story. I don't know. Something. Anything. Anything but 20$ jump potions.

 

Because they can. No company will ever provide something like this without a cost. It effectively allows you to skip potentially months of progress. In some sense, Square is ensuring they collect a sub free equivalent to what someone might have paid had they leveled the slow way.

 

Nonetheless, I am against any adjustments to ARR and Heavensward due to the cost involved. They have a finite amount of resources and I'd prefer the majority goes to new content in Stormblood, not improving to stuff I'll never even see unless I level an alt. More than likely, they'll gift us a free one with the expansion similar to Legion.

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111

111

Posted
Posted

I mean, yes they can charge for it, and yes I get the logic of lost sub time...

 

But there is always an opportunity cost, that of the person who is excited to play with their friend, and then realizes they have the unenviable choice of paying ~100$ plus subscription fee (game plus jumps) or not actually being able to try endgame stuff with their friend for months.

 

 

I've been playing a lot of pre-abbyssia FFXI lately (which is why I haven't been posting much one here). And while that game has the same issues, there are lots of reasons to level with your friends, and most of the quests are group ones that you can help each other with.

 

I just think it's a shortsighted decision on their part.To charge for this rather than attempt to fix it in some way. I think they'd make more money in the long run from subs, if players had a way to quickly get to level 50/60 and play with their friends.

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Cassandra

Cassandra

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Posted

I don't disagree. Hence why I suspect we'll be given one for free with the expansion. The cost aspect will likely be more for people who want to level multiple jobs/alts and to prevent RMT abuse, all while making a profit. Even if they didn't offer a free one, you'd be surprised just how many people are willing to pay just to avoid the horrible grind to endgame. The number of people I've come across both in game and on Reddit basically saying "I'd pay anything to skip those god awful fetch quests," is a little... surprising.

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Leggerless

Leggerless

Posted
Posted

Honestly? I would love a jump potion. I don't think I'd stomach the thought of leveling other jobs i'll never play again outside of leveling (ESPECIALLY with the so-far-unpredictable job formula changes) unless:

 

1. I'd have to for optimization.

2. I need to figure out stuff for theorycrafting purposes.

 

There's also the fact some people who already leveled 1-60 for a job... still don't know how the job works. The people that won't bother to learn their class won't magically start all of a sudden because of a jump potion. Doesn't work that way.

 

Now, would I prefer a solution where it's something like "Purchase the upcoming expansion and get a free jump potion" or even "Your first month's sub comes with a jump potion?" Absolutely. Most people will have a single class they'll play/like the most/main, so they can use it for that job to level up (conversely, they can go past the story stuff and start on 4.0 questing with their peeps too).

 

Edit: Also, the 4.0 jobs you cannot use a jump potion for. That's what the article appears to imply.

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Sig

Sig

Posted
Posted

As a grown adult with finite game time and a ton of obligations, I am very excited about the possibility of jump potions and believe they will greatly benefit roleplayers (especially those with limited schedules and multiple characters). 

 

I believe the concerns about a skill gap between new and old players are greatly overstated due to the relative simplicity of the game.  The proposed prices are slightly steep, but are completely worth the return on the investment if a player simply wants to make a new character or catch up quickly to enjoy time with friends.

 

Long overdue!

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Kellach Woods

Kellach Woods

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From how I've looked at it, there's two different ones you can currently buy. One is a story jump that puts you at the beginning of HW, and the other is a level jump. Both give you a discount based on how far the character already is in story and levels. 

 

Source - FFXIV SE Forums

 

Bear in mind that those will be updated once Stormblood hits - Story jump will put you at the start of SB and the Job jump will put you at 60 in one job.

 

Kinda laughing at the idea of jumping Summoner to also get 60 SCH but y'know.

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Ryslo Suramlo

Ryslo Suramlo

Posted
Posted

Very tough. I think for some people, especially perhaps the established individuals may find Jump Potions sort of distasteful. While newer players (Maybe within the last year and maybe some veteran players) may see the importance of it.

 

 

I understand the reluctance of the More Established Characters, they had to work through all that content. They had to earn every level and they had to wait for game mechanics and new content along the way. They played through ARR, Heavensward and will most likely play through the new expansion as well. Having Jump Potions for a good number of these players seems like they are being cheated out of all their efforts. I totally get that and respect it. I think we all take pride in the things we do whether its game related or real life and for someone to take a short cut feels kinda crappy.

 

 

I also understand the acceptance of these Jump Potions. It welcomes newer players by allowing them to play with their friends sooner. It allows them to bypass Week(s) (Depending on how one plays the game) of content to just get started on the new expansion pack leaving a great deal of room there for that player to lose interest since they have to trudge through so much out-dated content. I think for the most part, Jump Potions are meant to ease that tension and try to create a continued subscription to the game long into the future. In hopes that getting people into the action (The new stuff) sooner will keep them with us longer.

 

 

There are Pro's, There are Con's to both mentalities. I like some of the alternative idea's. Like cutting out the fatty stuff and maybe give an increase in xp via potions as rewards for doing those missions so they still get the story and still can level up a bit quicker along the way. I love that idea myself. Either way can't wait to see what the outcome of it will bring.

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Kellach Woods

Kellach Woods

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Posted

As they're described I'm chill with it. It kinda sucks that they don't get to experience ARR/HW but chances are they're coming in and most of the shit will be mad spoiled so the emotional impact and everything we hold dear to that time will be dead in the water. So all you're left with is a bunch of gameplay that, quite frankly, isn't super interesting.

 

Job level skip? I'm fine with it as well - Mostly because it's never to the maximum level (you still have to play) and 10 levels is enough to grasp the basics and some intermediate strats of your job if you actually care about being good.

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