Virella Posted May 18, 2017 Share #51 Posted May 18, 2017 I think it is due to Astrologians being insanely powerful they do not want Eorzeans, these days, to gain access to it. Next to that, I can see in their eyes little gain for them to teach that type of knowledge to outsiders. Astrologians, even if roleplayers tend to just see them (and roleplay them) as cutesy fortune-tellers, are well. Time mages to some degree. Think they are more preventive at this point to prevent more damage being done by the Eorzeans, especially when people could start manipulating fates and damaging themselves, if not people around them in the long run. Eorzeans aren't the brightest of the bunch to be found. Perhaps they don't have qualms with minor things, or preventing issues on a larger scale, but teaching the average Eorzean potentially extremely dangerous magic after all what happened? They are not so okay with that (any more). We also don't know if Matoya told the rest of the Sharlayans about this. For all we know she was instructed not to, but gone ahead anyhow due to personal reasons. Because the Warrior of Wildly Unlikely Exceptions of Light. The other Sharlayans may not be aware of what happened there. I think it still very much depends on what and why for Sharlayans, given from what we've seen, yes. If it is relatively harmless and they can gain knowledge out of it themselves? They are probably a lot more lenient. Just restricted things they do not want shared. And beyond Astrologian magic, we don't know what that is. Anyhow, going to stop posting here, seeming I don't want to derail the thread. If you want to continue this discussion, feel free to make another thread on it! 1 Link to comment
Vexander Posted May 18, 2017 Share #52 Posted May 18, 2017 Good post, and good point. To more Red Mage speculation! If the little settlement of Red Mages somewhere in Gyr Abania is actually named Thamasa, I totally expect (hope) that as part of the Job Quests for 60-70, we have to hunt down and take down Hidon. If not, perhaps Hidon will feature in the new Hildebrand Quests, like Ultros did back in the 2.X Hildebrand series. 1 Link to comment
Arashin Kujqai Posted May 24, 2017 Share #53 Posted May 24, 2017 Friends and I have come up with a few theories for "rdm lore friendliness" as well as how red magic works. According to.... just a friend I spoke to, the concept of white and black mana as explained for the job is quite possibly a new real concept. Considering the gauge fills up black/white and then let's you use red, my other friend and I have speculated that red magic is the discipline of enchanting your sword using the two types of mana. Now, what is white and black mana in this sense? My other friend and I have some theories, like perhaps there's a form of aetherial residue on magic gathered through white and black magic disciplines that the red mage can gather together into his crystal like a filter to combine together. Then store those two manas together to charge their sword to an extent. We also think this is because of their lore setting aside their differences and picking up the sword since the magi war nearly caused both black and white mages to wipe out in that flood. I guess they kinda went "maybe we should stop being stupid and just fight together" and decided to pick up a different route of magic. Another thing I thought might've been interesting is that, I believe this method of magic is meant to be more safe and not provoke anyone but think about a certain somebody real quick.... Mr. Sloppy/End of our current patch spoilers (Reveal hidden contents) Think about Illberd's techniques in battle so far. A lot of it could just be seen as generic sword magic, but from where he is from, this could be some things he picked up while in Ala Mhigo. Perhaps he isn't a red mage but he picked up similar sword techniques? With Alisae as a red mage, I'm likely to believe she just picked this trait up as if it was a regular art too. Considering all the main characters are typically lore friendly and not exactly a specific job,(maybe not counting Estinien). With Y'shtola as the generic healer but mostly scholar, Thancred as the generic rogue, Yugiri a ninja, Alphinaud a arcanist, perhaps Alisae's red mage transformation is an indication that red magic is more of an accepted discipline that is to be taught to all. Perhaps to make peace and settlements once and for all. Alisae also seems like another "special snowflake" type to me with how she originally obtained her sword, it's possible she learned her own method somehow while she was away. Overall I'm hoping at least some of this is true because I'd really hate to have another magic based job that has such high standards of becoming/obtaining like black and white mages are. Not only that but giving aether more properties like this is vastly interesting, more-so than just knowing the disciplines at least. Link to comment
Vexander Posted May 24, 2017 Share #54 Posted May 24, 2017 Ilberd's techniques always struck me more as a Blue Mage thing, given they were all named after beasts and such. Same with Raubahn and his moves. Given in FFXI Raubahn was the leader of the Immortal Lions, an order of Blue Mages, I wouldn't be surprised if Blue Magic was an Ala Mhigan thing. As for Red Mage and Alisae, the books she and Alphinaud received from Louisoix were more than Arcanist tomes, as he told them that when used together, they would unlocked hidden powers and knowledge. It could be Alisae becoming a Red Mage is a result of that. The question then is, what knowledge is contained in Alphinaud's book, and why hasn't he used it yet? Its also possible Sharlayan has knowledge on Red Mages and Red Magic, or developed a form of it for themselves. Perhaps Sharlayan and Thamasa were in contact prior to the Garlean Occupation of Ala Mhigo. Link to comment
Shion Posted May 25, 2017 Share #55 Posted May 25, 2017 This may have been pointed out before, but I just got the Encyclopaedia Eorzea today and noticed on page 47 it says Sharlayan was founded when Archon Nyunkrepf led people away from the chaos of Gyr Abania. The Red Mage info on the website does not actually say Ala Mhigo, just Gyr Abania, so it may be the Red Mages were part of Nyunkrepf's group that went to Sharlayan, thus explaining the RDM aesthetic being more fancy than you'd expect from Ala Mhigo? Though truth be told I don't expect that, since the expansion will actually be going to Ala Mhigo so a Job from there would make sense. 1 Link to comment
Vexander Posted May 25, 2017 Share #56 Posted May 25, 2017 Quote This may have been pointed out before, but I just got the Encyclopaedia Eorzea today and noticed on page 47 it says Sharlayan was founded when Archon Nyunkrepf led people away from the chaos of Gyr Abania. The Red Mage info on the website does not actually say Ala Mhigo, just Gyr Abania, so it may be the Red Mages were part of Nyunkrepf's group that went to Sharlayan, thus explaining the RDM aesthetic being more fancy than you'd expect from Ala Mhigo? Though truth be told I don't expect that, since the expansion will actually be going to Ala Mhigo so a Job from there would make sense. It'd make a bit more sense at least. However, I have to agree, I just can't see it being the case. Then again, I -can- see Red Mage being a Gyr Abanian Job that has absolutely nothing to do with Ala Mhigo, and I kind of expect that to be honest, since Red Mages had no know role in any of the events affecting Ala Mhigo. It was always the Monks that were center stage. It's not as though Heavensward introduced exclusively Ishgardian jobs. Astrologian as we play it is strictly Sharlayan, and Machinist is a blend of Ishgardian ingenuity and Magitech ala Cid's Ironworks. Really interested in learning more lore, particularly Alisae's Red Mage lore. WTB a Short Story on that. Link to comment
Arashin Kujqai Posted June 3, 2017 Share #57 Posted June 3, 2017 So with the combined efforts of some theorists, the red mage discord, and Fan'rei Shain who also typed most of this up with me. We've devised a theory of the RDM lore as well as the functions of their weapon. Below is a document that lists the mechanics of the rdm which then delves into our theories combined with how red magic as a discipline is enforced as well as other neat theories. Please have a look and tell us your thoughts! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uSWxIOqJ4XY9CSt-5l0hKLEn7geEbInGq8Ej5_FsZt4/edit Also includes the picture of their job stone and some qwerky humor here and there as we had a lot of fun discussing their lore concepts. We appreciate any feedback anyone can provide or any other theories to be thought of. 1 Link to comment
Sylentmana Posted June 5, 2017 Share #58 Posted June 5, 2017 Quote So with the combined efforts of some theorists, the red mage discord, and Fan'rei Shain who also typed most of this up with me. We've devised a theory of the RDM lore as well as the functions of their weapon. Below is a document that lists the mechanics of the rdm which then delves into our theories combined with how red magic as a discipline is enforced as well as other neat theories. Please have a look and tell us your thoughts! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uSWxIOqJ4XY9CSt-5l0hKLEn7geEbInGq8Ej5_FsZt4/edit Also includes the picture of their job stone and some qwerky humor here and there as we had a lot of fun discussing their lore concepts. We appreciate any feedback anyone can provide or any other theories to be thought of. I love your idea of red magic being a discipline rather than an actual form of magic. I'm really looking forward to this job. 2 Link to comment
Shion Posted June 16, 2017 Share #59 Posted June 16, 2017 Here's some stuff the RDM questgiver had to say: Reveal hidden contents -RDM doesn't use ambient mana like BLM and WHM -Sword techniques harness and amplify their spoken incantations. Their "physical form serves as an arcane accelerator", "an ingenious way of preserving their self-imposed limitations" (that is, not using ambient mana). -Red Mages fight for those enduring violence and subjugation, a bulwark against unkind vagaries of fate -Revolutionary Red Mages united as Crimson Duelists against the Ala Mhigan king -Only he survived of the Crimson Duelists, they were crushed -He never ceased fighting for Ala Mhigo's liberation and allied with the scholars of Sharlayan after hearing of the Calamity The way he says it, it sounds like not all Red Mages are Crimson Duelists, that was just a group of them. And I didn't get a screen of this, but earlier he says Alisaie sought him out to learn red magic from him some time ago. Link to comment
LiadansWhisper Posted June 16, 2017 Share #60 Posted June 16, 2017 Apparently SE doesn't want any screenshots of Stormblood until it releases on Tuesday, so you may want to remove that. Link to comment
Crystal Chronicler Posted June 16, 2017 Share #61 Posted June 16, 2017 Spoiler tags please! Link to comment
Gegenji Posted June 16, 2017 Share #62 Posted June 16, 2017 Quote Apparently SE doesn't want any screenshots of Stormblood until it releases on Tuesday, so you may want to remove that. Should there be a big Mod Post about that if that's the case? Make sure everyone knows not to take and post screenies until Tuesday? Link to comment
Shion Posted June 16, 2017 Share #63 Posted June 16, 2017 Quote Apparently SE doesn't want any screenshots of Stormblood until it releases on Tuesday, so you may want to remove that. Ah, ok. =x Link to comment
Zhavi Posted June 16, 2017 Share #64 Posted June 16, 2017 Quote Quote Apparently SE doesn't want any screenshots of Stormblood until it releases on Tuesday, so you may want to remove that. Should there be a big Mod Post about that if that's the case? Make sure everyone knows not to take and post screenies until Tuesday? It was a request, not a desist. The only thing that they directly stated was against the TOS was datamining. They just don't want people casually spoiling the MSQ and such for others -- so spoilers should do the trick, imo. Edit: actual wording: Quote For the benefit of those who will begin their adventures anew on the official release, we ask that players participating in early access refrain from posting messages, pictures, or videos containing spoilers to the official forums, the lodestone, and other social media websites. http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/cdd83b2d418a790bc2d1889e939d115318fe52ba Link to comment
Gegenji Posted June 16, 2017 Share #65 Posted June 16, 2017 Fair enough. I was just figuring if it was a thing, then it probably would be good to give it a bit more visibility to avoid problems during early access. 1 Link to comment
Jana Posted June 16, 2017 Share #66 Posted June 16, 2017 At least it sounds like we can get the big takeaway that the job isn't gonna be another WoL-locked one. 1 Link to comment
Arashin Kujqai Posted June 16, 2017 Share #67 Posted June 16, 2017 Exactly ^, according to just the first couple quests, it seems like anyone can just pick up on red magic. I wonder if Alisae even needed to get a soul stone or ask for one just to learn the abilities of a red mage or the trainer just tutored her regardless. He made it sound like it's his sworn duty to teach those who want to learn it no matter what. So I guess whether or not you have a soul stone(and even if you need one, it seems like), you can just become a red mage and that's that lol. Link to comment
Crystal Chronicler Posted June 16, 2017 Share #68 Posted June 16, 2017 Quote Exactly ^, according to just the first couple quests, it seems like anyone can just pick up on red magic. I wonder if Alisae even needed to get a soul stone or ask for one just to learn the abilities of a red mage or the trainer just tutored her regardless. He made it sound like it's his sworn duty to teach those who want to learn it no matter what. So I guess whether or not you have a soul stone(and even if you need one, it seems like), you can just become a red mage and that's that lol. I like this. Maybe he wants to rebuild the order. Link to comment
Nero Posted June 16, 2017 Share #69 Posted June 16, 2017 Per the RPC's spoiler policy, spoilers are okay as long as they're tagged and hidden. Link to comment
Arashin Kujqai Posted June 16, 2017 Share #70 Posted June 16, 2017 Quote Quote Exactly ^, according to just the first couple quests, it seems like anyone can just pick up on red magic. I wonder if Alisae even needed to get a soul stone or ask for one just to learn the abilities of a red mage or the trainer just tutored her regardless. He made it sound like it's his sworn duty to teach those who want to learn it no matter what. So I guess whether or not you have a soul stone(and even if you need one, it seems like), you can just become a red mage and that's that lol. I like this. Maybe he wants to rebuild the order. Honestly, considering the amount of times he's said Crimson Duelist, I truly wonder what the title will be for this class :dodgy:... Jokes aside, I adore this too. Though I'm still hoping they indulge further into what exactly red magic as a discipline is to involve rapiers or how wielding swords makes their magic so good. I took what they said so far to mean they build on their physique to enhance their natural born mana pools rather than just using ambient aether to make up for what a commoner lacks in power. Otherwise... I don't have the slightest clue so far what separates their discipline from other basic ones. Considering Conjury/Thaumaturgy originally drew from their own mana pools iirc. Link to comment
Riggy Posted June 16, 2017 Share #71 Posted June 16, 2017 Quote Honestly, considering the amount of times he's said Crimson Duelist, I truly wonder what the title will be for this class :dodgy:... Jokes aside, I adore this too. Though I'm still hoping they indulge further into what exactly red magic as a discipline is to involve rapiers or how wielding swords makes their magic so good. I took what they said so far to mean they build on their physique to enhance their natural born mana pools rather than just using ambient aether to make up for what a commoner lacks in power. Otherwise... I don't have the slightest clue so far what separates their discipline from other basic ones. Considering Conjury/Thaumaturgy originally drew from their own mana pools iirc. Scarlet Fencer! Link to comment
Valde Posted June 16, 2017 Share #72 Posted June 16, 2017 Quote Quote Honestly, considering the amount of times he's said Crimson Duelist, I truly wonder what the title will be for this class :dodgy:... Jokes aside, I adore this too. Though I'm still hoping they indulge further into what exactly red magic as a discipline is to involve rapiers or how wielding swords makes their magic so good. I took what they said so far to mean they build on their physique to enhance their natural born mana pools rather than just using ambient aether to make up for what a commoner lacks in power. Otherwise... I don't have the slightest clue so far what separates their discipline from other basic ones. Considering Conjury/Thaumaturgy originally drew from their own mana pools iirc. Scarlet Fencer! If you check it's actually 'The Red' Link to comment
Riggy Posted June 17, 2017 Share #73 Posted June 17, 2017 Quote Quote Quote Honestly, considering the amount of times he's said Crimson Duelist, I truly wonder what the title will be for this class :dodgy:... Jokes aside, I adore this too. Though I'm still hoping they indulge further into what exactly red magic as a discipline is to involve rapiers or how wielding swords makes their magic so good. I took what they said so far to mean they build on their physique to enhance their natural born mana pools rather than just using ambient aether to make up for what a commoner lacks in power. Otherwise... I don't have the slightest clue so far what separates their discipline from other basic ones. Considering Conjury/Thaumaturgy originally drew from their own mana pools iirc. Scarlet Fencer! If you check it's actually 'The Red' I stopped trying to log in a while ago. I'll just wait until the transfers open tonight. Though "The Red" isn't particularly surprising, if a bit generic. Link to comment
Valence Posted June 17, 2017 Share #75 Posted June 17, 2017 Quote Here's some stuff the RDM questgiver had to say: Reveal hidden contents -RDM doesn't use ambient mana like BLM and WHM -Sword techniques harness and amplify their spoken incantations. Their "physical form serves as an arcane accelerator", "an ingenious way of preserving their self-imposed limitations" (that is, not using ambient mana). -Red Mages fight for those enduring violence and subjugation, a bulwark against unkind vagaries of fate -Revolutionary Red Mages united as Crimson Duelists against the Ala Mhigan king -Only he survived of the Crimson Duelists, they were crushed -He never ceased fighting for Ala Mhigo's liberation and allied with the scholars of Sharlayan after hearing of the Calamity The way he says it, it sounds like not all Red Mages are Crimson Duelists, that was just a group of them. And I didn't get a screen of this, but earlier he says Alisaie sought him out to learn red magic from him some time ago. Reveal hidden contents Apparently Red Mages took upon themselves not to use their white and black magic components to suck the planet dry of its aether, and instead make to do with their own personal aether (which implies they could use the planet's aether like any white and black mage). How do they managed not to kill themselves, is rather vague to me right now, but it seems to hint at their technics focusing it through their blades and weapons. Link to comment
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