General Lore Questions

[Saigejo]

Alright, I've got a question for y'all.

 

I'm trying to understand Monks and how their techniques gain power, but I think I'm struggling a little bit and I'm stumped. Here is what I get so far...

 

1. In FFXIV, the Lifestream exists - both in the planet, and in living things.

 

2. Monks draw their power from the soul.

 

3. The power that is drawn from the soul is a very specific form of Aether that they call, "Chakra". Chakra is an equatable energy source to aether that fuels magic.

 

4. By reaching a higher state of mind, Monks unlock one of seven gates that block the flow of Chakra. They train their minds in places where the planet's Chakra has been blocked due to some sort of horrible or intense event, such as a battlefield or the site of a great natural disaster.

 

5. You must unlock each Chakra Gate in order.

 

6. The stronger the "soul", the more Chakra is generated.

 

Now, here is the problem that I'm facing: does it say anywhere in the game that the "Lifestreams" and "Souls" are the same thing? Is the "Lifestream" the Aether that runs through "Souls"? I am leaning towards thinking that "Chakra" is basically what Monks call FFXIV's "Lifestream" and that they essentially use this powerful pathway of Aether that exists within everything to make themselves stronger and pull off incredible, physics-defying stunts (their job abilities). Is there anything that outright contradicts this? Is there anything that supports this?

 

I guess what I'm saying is, "mank halp"

[Swift Nightclaw]

I've got another question.  This time about Seekers of the Sun. 

 

How do nunhs refer to "their" females?  As their females, their women, their wives, or something else?

 

I've not seen anything official on this in game, but I'd imagine they'd simply be seen as the women of their tribe.  It doesn't seem too often that multiple nunhs are living in the same area, so it's basically just the women of their tribe.

 

I don't get the impression they'd be considered wives as there's not really any mutual love between them so much as he's the best breeding stock and he'll father her children if she's going to have them.  In the desert in south Thanalan, a miqo'te female basically asks her sister when her next breeding is set for.

 

So I'd imagine the nunh sees them as his women of his tribe.

 

Regarding the monks, I think this is the easiest way to think of it:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra

 

jwSoCaqNYHk

 

 

 

You can also think of the chakra and all the stuff related to the monks along the same lines as Star Wars' The Force (which is also based of the ideas of qi)

[Saigejo]

Regarding the monks, I think this is the easiest way to think of it:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra

 

Yeah, I know about Qigong and Chakra as both application and philosophy, but its application into superior techniques in this game is something that I'm trying to nail down. It's actually really important, since it either limits or expands on what Monks should and shouldn't be able to do in-character.

 

For example, if Chakra DOES come directly from the soul, then that means that Monks manipulate Aether using their body, and that they use the Aether to unclog both their personal Lifestream and the Lifestream of the planet. This means that Monks are MUSCLE WIZARDS RAAAAH! ...but seriously, this means that Monks are, essentially, magic-users that deal damage using internal-strikes by both enhancing themselves and by sending Aetheric shockwaves into their foes.

 

However, if Chakra does NOT work like it is meant to, and that Chakra is NOT Aether like the game has been alluding to (as far as I have seen, it does), then that means that Chakra is not in fact any form of magic, and that it is excess energy from the Lifestream itself... which means that who knows what the hell this means because there is next to no lore about how the Lifestream operates.

 

So, what basically is going on here is one of two things: either Chakra works a lot like "energy" that people would be familiar with in various mainstream media formats, though it has a more "magical" flare to it - meaning, no "Kamehameha" or "Spirit Gun" nonsense, but it would still be entirely possible to exude an aura of Chakra around a person for defense; OR, it would mean that Chakra is so lost in this game's lack of fluff that it cannot be labeled by any means.

 

Keep in mind, when I say "aura for defense", I'm thinking of Fists of the Earth, not "YAAAAAAAAH NOW YOU SHALL SEE MY TRUE FORM".

 

The Monks cutscenes certainly do add a lot of pretty lights and aura effects as well, but what I want to know is what kind of energy this is supposed to be, how well Monks manipulate it, etc.

 

So far as I have seen, it's pretty much what I stated in my earlier post - "Chakra" is Aether generated from strong souls, and that Monks manipulate Chakra to open gates within a Lifestream. However, what I'm asking is if there is further specifics, because I can't find any.

[Ildur]

If you think about it, every Disciple of War is a 'muscle wizard'. Heavy use of Aether is the only way to justify how a gladiator is able to cut Titan's ankles with what is basically a very sharp needle (as far as Titan is concerned). Or how Dragoons are capable of jumping outrageously far to hit airborne dragons. Or how a Bard's arrows can pierce through the stone guardians in the Temple of Qarn. Etcetera. The flimsy auto-attacks everyone gets is what an unassisted blow looks like: perfectly normal and not very damaging. All the flashy special effects we get when using skills? I don't see them just as an aesthetic (and blinding) choice, but as a representation of the use of aether.

 

Everyone is, essentially, an aether user. What differes is the method of use, I'd say. Though it's never specified what the difference might be.

[Saigejo]

 

Everyone is, essentially, an aether user. What differes is the method of use, I'd say. Though it's never specified what the difference might be.

 

That was my question, right there. If there was serious in-game confirmation on the difference. I think I'm going to stick with what I've been assuming - for now, at least. Thanks for the feedback!

[Goodfellow]

Hey folks, I've got a question about the Primals.  Namely, are they an exclusively Eorzean phenomenon?  Or are other parts of Hydaelyn a drain on the Lifestream as well?

[Naunet]

The primals can be found anywhere there is a wish for them to be, Eorzea or elsewhere. The Garlean Empire's spread across the other continents of Hydaelyn is largely motivated by the desire to eliminate the primals.

[Goodfellow]

The primals can be found anywhere there is a wish for them to be, Eorzea or elsewhere. The Garlean Empire's spread across the other continents of Hydaelyn is largely motivated by the desire to eliminate the primals.

 

Ah, I see.  Thanks!

[Goodfellow]

So I've seen a couple of references around here to a gem in reference to summoning Carbuncle.  Have I just completely overlooked that so far in my arcanist's story or have I not made it to that information somehow?  If true, then there's an IC assumption that anyone with a Carbuncle tailing them has one of these gems?  Topaz or Emerald, I assume.  If so, it doesn't break anything for me, I'll just need to make a minor adjustment to Lolotaru.

[Ildur]

The gem used for the summoning of the carbuncles is only referenced in the arcanist description in the game's webpage. As far as I recall, there is no mention of it during the arcanist quests.

However, if you take a closer look at the summoning animations you will note that, besides writting something on the book, there are three gemstones floating around your character. It's just that they forgot to mention it or maybe they did but didn't call any attention to it.

[Goodfellow]

The gem used for the summoning of the carbuncles is only referenced in the arcanist description in the game's webpage. As far as I recall, there is no mention of it during the arcanist quests.

However, if you take a closer look at the summoning animations you will note that, besides writting something on the book, there are three gemstones floating around your character. It's just that they forgot to mention it or maybe they did but didn't call any attention to it.

 

Ah, I see.  Thanks!

[Goodfellow]

I might not know this simply because I've not spent a great deal of time in Gridania, but who exactly are these elementals that they're always going on about?  They're not beastmen or Primals (at least, I don't think), so are they some other type of aetheric manifestation or simply nature spirits or something else?

[Ildur]

The nature of the Elementals is never specified, but they act basically like some cloudy patron pantheon based onthe classic elements (Water, Fire, Earth and Wind) and are guardians of the Black Shroud. Gridanians revere them as forces of nature and they are the source of power from where Conjurers get their power (or at least the Guild), and it is known that they can drive the wood creatures into attacking specific people (this phenomenom is called 'woodwrath'). Gridanians will not help anyone victim of the woodwrath, as it's the "Will of the Elementals" that they be killed or driven off from the Black Shroud.

 

So, in a way, you could say they -might- be Primals, but aren't considered such. The game implies they are just some kind of force of nature.

[LiadansWhisper]

The nature of the Elementals is never specified, but they act basically like some cloudy patron pantheon based onthe classic elements (Water, Fire, Earth and Wind) and  are guardians of the Black Shroud. Gridanians revere them as forces of nature and they are the source of power from where Conjurers get their power (or at least the Guild), and it is known that they can drive the wood creatures into attacking specific people (this phenomenom is called 'woodwrath'). Gridanians will not help anyone victim of the woodwrath, as it's the "Will of the Elementals" that they be killed or driven off from the Black Shroud.

 

So, in a way, you could say they -might- be Primals, but aren't considered such. The game implies they are just some kind of force of nature.

 

I think the fact that they don't consume aether/require aetheryte crystals differentiates them from the Primals.  They also do not, to my knowledge, temper mortals.

[Goodfellow]

Yeah, that all sounds reasonable.  But if pretty much everything else in the lore relates to crystals and aether, I wonder if/how the elementals do as well.  Maybe we'll get something in a lore-dump someday.

[Ildur]

I would argue that they do temper mortals, just in a more limited way: the Padjai. They are Hyur children who are chosen by the Elementals, which causes them to be born with horns (for...some reason) and have a natural affinity towards nature and conjury. All Padjai we have seen in the game are dedicated to the Elemental's cause and unable to defy them. I'd say that's tempering right there.

 

If I had to speculate, I'd say the Elementals are some kind of aetheric pressence limited to the Black Shroud. That would explain why they have been weakened by the Calamity: their aetheric sustenance comes from the forest itself, instead of piles and piles of crystals like the Primals.

[LiadansWhisper]

I would argue that they do temper mortals, just in a more limited way: the Padjai. They are Hyur children who are chosen by the Elementals, which causes them to be born with horns (for...some reason) and have a natural affinity towards nature and conjury. All Padjai we have seen in the game are dedicated to the Elemental's cause and unable to defy them. I'd say that's tempering right there.

 

As far as I know, they are not actually Hyur.  They are their own race, and are ageless (effectively immortal?  They are able to be killed, but they do not get old and die).  It seems a bit more akin to the Greek stories of the gods placing their offspring in the wombs of human women.

 

Also, what about Hearers?  o_O

 

If I had to speculate, I'd say the Elementals are some kind of aetheric pressence limited to the Black Shroud. That would explain why they have been weakened by the Calamity: their aetheric sustenance comes from the forest itself, instead of piles and piles of crystals like the Primals.

 

I still don't believe they're Primals.  They seem to be something else entirely.

[Ildur]

I'm basing myself on that they are Hyur based on this quote fromthis thread on the official lore forum (emphasis mine):

 

There was also a question about how a Padjal gets their name (considering they start off as Hyur).

 

There are several old Hyur families in Gridania which consistently (albeit rarely) produce Padjals. Those include the Senna, the Yan, and the Pesi families. (Note the family names still possess the Padjali linguistic roots).

 

Seeing how they are physically similar to Hyur except for the horns, I'd say they are indeed Hyur; they just have a magically induced mutation (or maybe you could consider them a subrace).

 

I have no idea about Hearers. My lore-fu is rusty right now.

[LiadansWhisper]

I'm basing myself on that they are Hyur based on this quote fromthis thread on the official lore forum (emphasis mine):

 

There was also a question about how a Padjal gets their name (considering they start off as Hyur).

 

There are several old Hyur families in Gridania which consistently (albeit rarely) produce Padjals. Those include the Senna, the Yan, and the Pesi families. (Note the family names still possess the Padjali linguistic roots).

 

Seeing how they are physically similar to Hyur except for the horns, I'd say they are indeed Hyur; they just have a magically induced mutation (or maybe you could consider them a subrace).

 

Well, yeah, physically...  I can't help but think, "Miqo'te are physically similar to Hyur except for the ears and tail."  

 

I think "subrace" is a better term, tho!

 

I have no idea about Hearers. My lore-fu is rusty right now.

 

Hearers are Conjurers who can hear and communicate directly with the Elementals (similar to Padjal).  Hearers are (at least according to the Conjurer questline) born, not trained.  All Hearers appear to have a natural affinity for Conjury, though if they aren't trained in proper use, they apparently draw from their own life force to heal others (which can ultimately kill them).  From what I saw in the CNJ and WHM quests, all Padjal are Hearers, and all Hearers are Conjurers, but not all Conjurers are Hearers (or Padjal, of course).

[Sev]

Sooo, what are the big glowing orange crystals dotted around the world? Are the remains of Bahamut's 'Make everything explode' spell, hunks of Dalamund, or something else?

 

Also, IIRC Ala Mhingo is under Garlean rule, so would it be much of rare sight to see Garlean patrols out in the eastern ends of the Shroud?

[No Longer Exists]

Yeah, that all sounds reasonable.  But if pretty much everything else in the lore relates to crystals and aether, I wonder if/how the elementals do as well.  Maybe we'll get something in a lore-dump someday.

 

If I had to speculate? The Primals represent the devastating aspect of Elements and encroach on Eorzea from beyond (I'm not certain WHERE exactly) through influencing Tempered until they can be summoned into the realm to directly affect it. This brings to mind that they're something akin to invaders. Perhaps the Elementals of the Shroud are "Natural" (see: Actual Denizens) of Eorzea birthed in the early periods of the planet. I mention this because of the Patron Gods each character chooses when created must have influence over their purviews (Such as Nophica, who would be the overseer of the Shroud and therefore the elementals). Also, the sprites we see all over the world have no direct connection to the Primals. These Sprites would be minor Elementals, which to my mind means there are major Elementals and if there are major then there must be grand Elementals and finally the tip of the pyramid: a God. 

 

Sprites are classified as spirits made of pure Aether. 

 

As a side note, this all reminds me of the Greek pantheon. A group of Gods, command of elements, and a group of primordial beings seeking to claim dominion (The Titans). 

 

Just a thought.

[Naunet]

So, in a way, you could say they -might- be Primals, but aren't considered such. The game implies they are just some kind of force of nature.

 

If you're Garlean, they're certainly no different from Primals (same with the gods)! And honestly, they make a convincing argument.

[Goodfellow]

But sprites, while elementals, aren't the Elementals of the Gridanians/Twelveswood, are they?  Are the Elementals more sort of formless representations?

 

And I'm still interested in Teuto's question.

 

Also, how do y'all tend to treat summons IC?  Specifically with regards to proximity.  For example, could a scholar send Selene off to run some errands?  Or an arcanist give Carbuncle a letter to deliver?  Might a summoner send Ifrit home to have dinner ready before she gets there?  The mind boggles.

[Olofantur]

Sooo, what are the big glowing orange crystals dotted around the world? Are the remains of Bahamut's 'Make everything explode' spell, hunks of Dalamund, or something else?

 

Also, IIRC Ala Mhingo is under Garlean rule, so would it be much of rare sight to see Garlean patrols out in the eastern ends of the Shroud?

 

Orange stuff- Depends on where you're talking about, the wide world coming out of buildings and the big splash in La Noscea that has blue crystal around it? Bahamut likely enough, Mor Dhona? Agrias/Midgardsormer. Collapsed looking Aethryte? Long story, mixture of Atmos, beast tribes and all of the above.

 

The Garleans have patrols in the east shroud, you fight them off as part of a quest, and you can see Castrum Oriens from Amarissaixs' Spire in the East shroud.

 

But sprites, while elementals, aren't the Elementals of the Gridanians/Twelveswood, are they?  Are the Elementals more sort of formless representations?

 

And I'm still interested in Teuto's question.

 

Also, how do y'all tend to treat summons IC?  Specifically with regards to proximity.  For example, could a scholar send Selene off to run some errands?  Or an arcanist give Carbuncle a letter to deliver?  Might a summoner send Ifrit home to have dinner ready before she gets there?  The mind boggles.

 

I see the Elementals as the "Living Wood" itself, the Trents that chase Papalymo and Yda upon your arrival in 1.0, the spirits (read physical elemental manifestations) that attack you during the conjury quest as part of "calming" them. I can provide some screen shots of the quest if you like, but its pretty spoiler heavy and a great story line to be honest.

 

I treat the Faeries/Carbuncles slightly differently, but largely benevolent. The Primal-Egi's would be malignant if you did not suppress them, so perhaps you could ask them to do some things, but trust them to do it? I wouldn't...

 

Hope that helps!

[K'dath]

Also, how do y'all tend to treat summons IC?  Specifically with regards to proximity.  For example, could a scholar send Selene off to run some errands?  Or an arcanist give Carbuncle a letter to deliver?  Might a summoner send Ifrit home to have dinner ready before she gets there?  The mind boggles.

 

Are you just asking opinions? Or like, searching for hard rules backed up by lore? Because I'm not overly positive on the latter. Thusfar I haven't seen anything in game that seems to suggest summons travel far from their masters. Going by game mechanics they despawn after you get too far apart. I'd imagine that because the -egi are derived from the power of the primals, rather than independent deities as the primals themselves, they'd require the concentration and will of their masters to remain tangible. In fact, this seems to be backed up by the class description for Arcanists:

Accompanied by a familiar in battle, adepts of the art of arcanum derive their might from symbols of power born of geometric techniques hailing from across the southern seas. Held within special grimoires, these symbols lend shape to the arcanist's aether, thereby allowing them to produce a myriad of powerful spells.

 

Using magicked gemstones upon which the selfsame symbols are graven, arcanists are also able to summon forth the ephemeral being Carbuncle to carry out their bidding.

 

As for me, opinion wise, it's never come up in RP. K'dath utilizes each one differently, as according to their talents, and regards his -egi as weapons. He basically follows the ol' samurai sword code 'Don't unsheathe it if you don't mean to use it'. Carbuncle is the exception. Since Carbuncle is refereed to as a 'familiar' I treat it more like a traditional familiar in RP; as a companion animal who's natural affinity for magic lends to his master's. His nickname is Carter, and he likes ear scritchies.

 

It's my personal head canon that, while all -egis would be similar because they are pulled from the same power source, that Carbuncle, due to being individually shaped, are all different. I wouldn't mean to imply that is necessarily correct in terms of lore though, it's just my own though.