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General Lore Questions


Goodfellow

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There wasn't much explanation in the arcanist quest as to what Carbuncle is. It's just like, "Go kill these dudes. And hey, don't forget your Carbuncle."

 

In the previous games, of course, Carbuncle is a summon/eidolon/GF/eikon as much as Ifrit and Shiva and the others. However here, the primals/eikons exist as aethereal energy until the beast tribes gather aether crystals and summon them as their gods. Unlike the primals, Carbuncle requires no crystals to sustain itself, coming into form and dispersing at the arcanist's will.

 

What I've noticed, and this is solely my own speculation, is that Summon and Summon II have two different animations. Summon seems to call upon the air element, looking not dissimilar from air sprites. Summon II has floating stones in the animation, suggesting the earth element.

 

Going with the arcanist theme of nigh mathematics, it's my guess that Carbuncle is a sort of construct, like an avatar of the elements crafted by the arcanist. Probably made of aetheric energy like the primals, but bound to the arcanist's will.

 

Question is whether it has its own consciousness. There's art in the lodestone of a carbuncle stealing its master's quill. Could be it has some sentience, as aetheric energy is arguably alive, or it's a pseudo-independent extension of the arcanist's own will.

 

Or the artist just drew it because it was cute.

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According to the info snippet describing Arcanists in the webby (as quoted by K'dath), the Arcanists need to inscribe gemstones to be able to summon Carbuncle. I'd assume that both summoners and scholars require a similar technique to do the same with their own creatures. I do not think they consume it, though. They are more likely used as catalysts for the wizard's own aetheric gauge (what mechanically we know as 'mana').

 

If I had to speculate as to what Carbuncles are, I'd say they are probably some kind of aetherical manifestation of mathematics/geometry. Based on the Scholar's questline, where the fairy is shown to have a personality of her own (kinda), I'd argue that this could very well be the case with Carbuncles. The egis probably do, too, based on whatever Primal they are based on. For example, titan-egi, in a cutscene, appears and blocks a magical attack with his face without you actually ordering him so. This implies that, just like Titan, the egi is kind of protective of those he recognizes as 'part of his team', so to speak.

 

As to what the Elementals with a capital E are, they are basically spirits that excersise power upon the Black Shroud. Unlike the sprites, they can communicate in some way to certain conjurers (called Hearers), who basically act as priests (or maybe envoys) of their will. You can see a Hearer in the Aetheryte plaza, with a bunch of people sitting around, listening to him.

Elementals also have a crapton more of implied power than any sprite. What the Elemental really are is never touched. Think of them as a very strict Mother Nature.

 

Finally, the big glowing crystals you see dotting many of the landscapes are crystallized aether. The places that were hit the hardest by Bahamut's megaflare (or whatever that thing he did was called) present those formations.

Though some of them could have a different story but, as far as I could tell, they were all caused by the Calamity.

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According to the info snippet describing Arcanists in the webby (as quoted by K'dath), the Arcanists need to inscribe gemstones to be able to summon Carbuncle. I'd assume that both summoners and scholars require a similar technique to do the same with their own creatures. I do not think they consume it, though. They are more likely used as catalysts for the wizard's own aetheric gauge (what mechanically we know as 'mana').

 

If I had to speculate as to what Carbuncles are, I'd say they are probably some kind of aetherical manifestation of mathematics/geometry. Based on the Scholar's questline, where the fairy is shown to have a personality of her own (kinda), I'd argue that this could very well be the case with Carbuncles. The egis probably do, too, based on whatever Primal they are based on. For example, titan-egi, in a cutscene, appears and blocks a magical attack with his face without you actually ordering him so. This implies that, just like Titan, the egi is kind of protective of those he recognizes as 'part of his team', so to speak.

 

 

Well, in the Summoner storyline:

 

You have to use Allegan rituals to 'call' the power of the primals at a place of power befitting their elemental affiliations, and then beat them into submission so that they will recognize you as their rightful master.

 

 

The use of geometry is sorta hand waved in favor of history. The casting animation stays consistent though, incorporating writing in the grimiore, so perhaps the ritual is 'simplified' into the same type of inscriptions. Or maybe they just though making different animations for the same spell was a waste of time.

 

What I meant with being 'individualized' more or less had more to do with the somewhat lack of 'proper' elaboration as to why any novice could conjure one, coupled with the external mention of gemstones. I assume there's a definitive 'right' way to summon Carbuncle (a geometric pattern) but  do not nessicarily come from a uniform source. They're like raw aether being pulled from the air and given a shape according to some guide lines. On top of that gemstones are not uniform. They have different facets and flaws, no two truly similar. Assuming the novice hand-carves them, they have an 'intimate' touch to them as well. (It's a spiritualist belief that hand made things have the essence or spirit energy of the one that makes them. Not that that's necessarily relevant to the lore... just.. you know, explaining my personal insight.) And then we have variable wills. That's a BIG theme in the Arcanist story, that your will defines your reality. Altogether I think it's sensible to think Carbuncle could have an aspect of individuality to them. It's plausible, as the very least.

 

I can't speak about the fairies (yet) but the -egi all come from a particular power source, the primals specifically. All -egis are an aspect of their respective primal and are summoned, as noted above, by a specific ritual. There are already rules for how to isolate and call up this power. It's very uniform and exact. It's effectively summoning a really tiny, neutered primal. I'd expect it to behave as much and to do so consistently. All Ifrit-egi are the same Ifrit-egi. All Titan-egi are the same Titan-egi. etc. The only reason they would act differently is when directly influenced by a summoner.

 

Like when the Dark Summoner attacks with Ifrit. It is, in essence, the exact same Ifrit you have, because they are BOTH just little incarnations of the ONE Ifrit. His Ifirt attacks you because he commanded it to. Your Ifrit attacks him despite the fact he too is a summoner. Ifrit's nature is to attack, and that's what it does consistently, only the target is changed because of the will of the summoner..

 

 

 

What I've noticed, and this is solely my own speculation, is that Summon and Summon II have two different animations. Summon seems to call upon the air element, looking not dissimilar from air sprites. Summon II has floating stones in the animation, suggesting the earth element.

 

It's probably because the animators are lazy and re-used the exact same animations later on. I don't think Carbuncle is really affiliated with air.

 

Also, aetheric energy being sentient on its own accord may be more of a philosophical quandary more than a mechanical one. Aether is sort of like the life force of the planet itself. I won't drone on anymore about it, especially because that way lays rife with spoilers and speculation, but it's something to dwell on.

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  • 4 weeks later...

It's that time again!  More questions!  Now, we're likely veering off into the undeveloped (or underdeveloped, at least) and speculatory, but let's do it.

 

I'm much more up on the lore these days, but one thing I'm still having trouble with is the relationship between the aether and religion.  Bear with me as I lead you nose-first through my thought process here.

 

I feel like I remember (during the explanation of the aetherytes, maybe) that physical bodies come from aether and eventually return to aether (magical decomposition?) and as such we can temporarily jump in and out of the Lifestream to teleport/return.  And maybe I'm making this up, but I think there are implications that our souls are also aether-based, but then they move on to the afterlife, i.e. Thal's realm.

 

We also know from the threat of the Primals that the aether/Lifestream is finite, or at least doesn't renew quickly enough to keep up with the drain of the Primals.  So if we are composed of aether and only 50% of that aether (our bodies, not our souls) returns to the Lifestream after we die, doesn't that imply that the whole system of life and death on Hydaelyn is unsustainable?  Or am I missing or misinterpreting something?

 

Short version:

People in Hydaelyn are bodies (physical aether) + souls (non-physical aether), but only our bodies (physical aether) returns to the Lifestream when we die.  So doesn't that produce a sort of terminal aether half-life which will eventually exhaust the Lifestream, regardless of the Primals?

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There are three problems I can see with your interpretation of the "aether cycle".

First: there's nothing implying that "physical aether" does not go back to the lifestream, in that scenario. Dead bodies are eventually destroyed (either by decomposition or other means), so once that happens, the aether that was in that body should go back to the Lifestream too. It's just not an immediate process.

 

Second: it is never specified that the aether is divided 50/50 between soul and body. Maybe the ratio is 99/1. Or 999/1. We don't really know, and dividing it on a 50/50 ratio is just arbitrary. So it is very possible that whatever aether goes into forming a body is meaningless compared to the aether needed for a soul. This could mean that the aether is eventually recovered, or that maybe it doesn't really leave the system since, again, bodies decompose and whatever matter was in them is absorbed by the enviorement.

 

Third: Maybe the aether needed for making a normal soul/body isn't significant at all in the grand scheme of things. Maybe the aether "lost" by the death of normal living creatures is like a natural evaporation on a pool of water. You might be losing water, but it's so slow and minimal that it doesn't really matter.

Primals, on the other hand, consume large ammounts of aether to manifest. So a primal summoning isn't like evaporation: it's someone with a bucket stealing the pool's water and dumping it into a lava pit. It might take him a long, long time to deplete the water, but it will happen much faster than if you let the pool be and evaporate on its own.

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There are three problems I can see with your interpretation of the "aether cycle".

First: there's nothing implying that "physical aether" does not go back to the lifestream, in that scenario. Dead bodies are eventually destroyed (either by decomposition or other means), so once that happens, the aether that was in that body should go back to the Lifestream too. It's just not an immediate process.

 

Second: it is never specified that the aether is divided 50/50 between soul and body. Maybe the ratio is 99/1. Or 999/1. We don't really know, and dividing it on a 50/50 ratio is just arbitrary. So it is very possible that whatever aether goes into forming a body is meaningless compared to the aether needed for a soul. This could mean that the aether is eventually recovered, or that maybe it doesn't really leave the system since, again, bodies decompose and whatever matter was in them is absorbed by the enviorement.

 

Third: Maybe the aether needed for making a normal soul/body isn't significant at all in the grand scheme of things. Maybe the aether "lost" by the death of normal living creatures is like a natural evaporation on a pool of water. You might be losing water, but it's so slow and minimal that it doesn't really matter.

Primals, on the other hand, consume large ammounts of aether to manifest. So a primal summoning isn't like evaporation: it's someone with a bucket stealing the pool's water and dumping it into a lava pit. It might take him a long, long time to deplete the water, but it will happen much faster than if you let the pool be and evaporate on its own.

 

Thanks for the input.  Firstly, it was actually the soul that I assumed did not return to the Lifestream, but instead moved to "Thal's realm," unless that is a euphemism for the Lifestream.

 

And yes, the 50/50 split was arbitrary.  I just was throwing some numbers together to help myself visualize and organize my thoughts.

 

And maybe the aether loss is insignificant in the short term, but I'm being really speculative and saying that if it does work in a manner akin to what I'm proposing, be it in a hundred, thousand, or million years, it will exhaust itself and collapse.  Of course, if the aether does "renew" in some form, then the loss attributable to the planet's natural life cycle could very well be negligible and thus would be a non-issue, as you posited.

 

It's probably underdeveloped and we clearly don't have all the pertinent information, it's just something that occurred to me from the information I had gathered and I wanted to know what the community thought about it.

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I can't find it now (though I haven't looked too much into it) but I think I remember a question about how teleportation actually works. I'll also have to go back and rewatch some of the Titan cutscenes where Y'shtola explains it.

 

Basically what someone suggested was that when it happens our bodies are transformed into the raw aether and rejoin the Lifestream (as you mentioned). But how do we know where to go? Our souls then guide the part of the Lifestream that's still us to the desired aetherite and then we reform.

 

So perhaps the souls aren't necessarily a part of the "aether cycle" but instead some sort of separate entity? Not sure on this one, because I haven't gotten the vibe that souls are aether-based. That could just be that I'm not far enough in the storyline, though.

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So perhaps the souls aren't necessarily a part of the "aether cycle" but instead some sort of separate entity? Not sure on this one, because I haven't gotten the vibe that souls are aether-based. That could just be that I'm not far enough in the storyline, though.

 

That's a good point.  Maybe souls exist apart from the aether cycle.  Everything else lore-wise is so heavy on the aether that I may have just been making an undue assumption or filling in the blanks incorrectly.

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It could be that the soul is a metaphysical entity,. If you think about it, aether is a very physical thing. It can be measured and you can create devices that let you 'see' it (like the googles the Scions wear). Souls, however, cannot be seen or measured. Though there are some enemies called "souls" that appear in ruins or areas where the dead would be. I don't think it's ever mentioned if these 'soul' creatures are really souls or just some kind of monster that just happens to be called that.

 

It would also explain why an afterlife (Thal's realm) can exist along with the idea of the ever recycling Lifestream: aether is what makes the physical realm possible, but isn't linked to the metaphysical. It also explains why the Primals need it to manifest or why their manifestations would eventually kill the planet: they are literally eating on the substance of physical reality.

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  • 1 month later...

In keeping with current RPC vogue, I've got a question about the Elementals.  I didn't want to derail the fine discussion thread about their nature, though, so I'm resurrecting this thread. 

 

I didn't play 1.0, nor have I done all Gridania's quests or the whole CNJ/WHM line, so maybe this is all answered in there somewhere. 

 

So do the Elementals ever evidence themselves individually or are they collective beings?  And if they do appear as individuals, do they have names?  Would a SL dealing with one Hearer and their Elemental buddy have legs? 

 

Thanks!

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In keeping with current RPC vogue, I've got a question about the Elementals.  I didn't want to derail the fine discussion thread about their nature, though, so I'm resurrecting this thread. 

 

I didn't play 1.0, nor have I done all Gridania's quests or the whole CNJ/WHM line, so maybe this is all answered in there somewhere. 

 

So do the Elementals ever evidence themselves individually or are they collective beings?  And if they do appear as individuals, do they have names?  Would a SL dealing with one Hearer and their Elemental buddy have legs? 

 

Thanks!

 

There's an individual Elemental in the 1.0 WHM questline who has a name and appears to act on an individual basis.  Beyond that, however, the Elementals are never presented as individuals except in one Conjurer quest.  Even then, they do not have names - they're labeled something like "Elemental" (I don't remember the precise name).

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I'm so glad I stumbled across this because I didnt want to start an entire thread for a simple question. This question is regarding the Grand Companies, mostly with the Flames. 

 

So I know that the Companies were reformed back in 1.0, but they did exist at an earlier period in time, right? Hint in the "reformed" word. I just wanted to know if anyone knew when they disbanded and possibly even why. I think the latter question might be harder to answer and I'm really mostly interested in the when. 

 

I ask because I had an older character who I wanted to tie to a military organization, but was dishonorably discharged, and the Grand Company's are the only military organization I know about that was in the city-states.

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So I know that the Companies were reformed back in 1.0, but they did exist at an earlier period in time, right? Hint in the "reformed" word. I just wanted to know if anyone knew when they disbanded and possibly even why. I think the latter question might be harder to answer and I'm really mostly interested in the when.

 

Reforming the Grand Companies

 

The original Grand Companies of Eorzea were first formed roughly 1600 years ago during the 6th Umbral Era in an effort to combat the Ascians. However, these Grand Companies were not made up of Twin Adders, Immortal Flames, and Maelstrom, as the nations of Gridania, Ul'dah, and Limsa did not yet exist. We do not know which ancient civilizations made up the original Grand Companies.

 

Now alot of things took place during the 6th Umbral Era. First, the world got swallowed up in a huge flood. Second, the Twelveswood went wild and grew up around itself. White and Black Magic was wiped from the world. And being the opportunists that they are, the Ascians crept out of the shadows and sought to cover the world in darkness.

 

The Archons rose up against the Ascians but were betrayed by one of their own, a roegadyn named Ahldbhar. Fearing further calamity, the nations of the time set aside their own wars and formed the Grand Companies of Eorzea to assist the Archons in fighting back the coming darkness. The Ascians retreated and this marked the change over from 6th Umbral to 6th Astral. 

 

The Grand Companies later disbanded because the nations started warring amongst each other again.

 

 

I ask because I had an older character who I wanted to tie to a military organization, but was dishonorably discharged, and the Grand Company's are the only military organization I know about that was in the city-states.

 

Well, the original Grand Companies are a little before his time I think haha. But each nation has it's own military outside of the Grand Companies.

 

Ul'dah has the Brass Blades, the Stone Torches, and the Sultansworn, who are all military entities not attached to the Immortal Flames. Gridania has the God's Quiver and the Wood Wailers. And Limsa has the Lominsan Armada which is composed of nine squadrons of vessels. Ala Mhigo is no longer a free nation, but before the Garlean occupation they boasted the greatest Lancer legions in the known world. They also had Monks as part of their military make-up. Could consider having your older character as part of one of these factions.

 

Scroll Down to find Flames organization

Scroll Down to find Adder organization

Scroll Down to find Maelstrom organization

 

I included these links because they show how each nation's military operates and is laid out. This includes the non-Grand Company related military for each nation as well as the Grand Company, and how the two military's intermingle.

 

Hope this helps!

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Hi everyone! Long time no see! Anyway, I have a question related to Bahamut's Coil.

 

Namely, what are the dark matter critters from turn 1? Are they supposed to be wildlife that somehow sneaked into Bahamut's Coil from the outside and then became corrupted by the crystals? Are they manifestations of bahamut's crystal wings? Finally, what do these critters live off of? Do they eat crystals, bathe themselves in the crystal's energy for sustenance, or do they eat each other? Do they even need to eat? Why can that snake divide itself like an amoeba?! AAAAAAAAAH! :frustrated:

 

... Somebody help me! I can't take much more of this. :dazed:

 

I really want to know, because it seems so unusual considering the location.

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Namely, what are the dark matter critters from turn 1? Are they supposed to be wildlife that somehow sneaked into Bahamut's Coil from the outside and then became corrupted by the crystals? Are they manifestations of bahamut's crystal wings? Finally, what do these critters live off of? Do they eat crystals, bathe themselves in the crystal's energy for sustenance, or do they eat each other? Do they even need to eat? Why can that snake divide itself like an amoeba?!

 

While I can't answer the first few questions because honestly I don't know and I don't think there's any lore behind it. Because... obviously... no one knows anything to tell us. We're the first people to go in there really. 

 

I honestly believe they represent more of the game mechanic of "adds" versus actually being in there for a lore reason. However, if I had to hazard a guess, taking into consideration they drop regular world mob loot, that they are just mobs who have crept their way inside and gotten trapped or corrupted by the aether down there. 

 

Now, the part about the snake dividing I can answer. Caduceus in Greek mythology was the staff carried by Hermes. It was short and had two serpents coiled around its base and was flanked by wings as shown in the image above. This image is usually incorrectly associated with modern medicine and healthcare instead of the actual symbol which is the Rod of Asclepius. Asclepius contains a single serpent wrapped around a staff and is never displayed with wings. 

 

You will fight both Caduceus and Asclepius within the Coil of Bahamut. Caduceus splits into two serpents in reference to its associated staff, while Asclepius does not split as its staff only contains a single serpent.

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I honestly believe they represent more of the game mechanic of "adds" versus actually being in there for a lore reason. However, if I had to hazard a guess, taking into consideration they drop regular world mob loot, that they are just mobs who have crept their way inside and gotten trapped or corrupted by the aether down there.

 

They're just trash.  They needed trash mobs I guess to make getting to the first boss "interesting."  Annoyingly, though, these mobs don't drop anything.  The function of trash mobs is generally an extra source of very rare random loot.

 

You will fight both Caduceus and Asclepius within the Coil of Bahamut. Caduceus splits into two serpents in reference to its associated staff, while Asclepius does not split as its staff only contains a single serpent.

 

Where exactly is Asclepius?

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Where exactly is Asclepius?

 

During stage 3 of twintania a bunch of snakes spawn while you are dodging her sonic boom. Asclepius is the big one (there are small ones too).

 

And it is so very much not a symbol of healthcare! D: Quite the opposite, really. *cowers from divebombs*

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Where exactly is Asclepius?

 

During stage 3 of twintania a bunch of snakes spawn while you are dodging her sonic boom. Asclepius is the big one (there are small ones too).

 

I haven't gotten that far yet.

 

I am so looking forward to this pain.

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