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Fantasia usage ICly?


Raelas

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I'll be completely honest and say I am totally, utterly and wholeheartedly against this.

 

A lot of things people don't think about is how everyone else has to act/RP around you now because of the massive change. It's literally waking up one day and you're a different race and look 100% different. It will have MASSIVE detrimental effects on your character's relationships with others. How is your lover supposed to feel when they look at you and see someone they don't recognize? What about family or children when they don't recognize their mother/father? How would your friends and colleagues build the rapport and trust back up again?

 

It utterly makes NO sense and no one really roleplays it correctly. It forces a certain amount of blending into the RP that I am not comfortable with because I, as a player, understand full well that a Fantasia was used but my character won't recognize this person if she walked by them in Ul'dah. So unless the Fantasa'd character approaches her she'd think they vanished unless she heard a rumour etc.

 

Even in this world with magic, there is really no precedent for this kind of radical change. My character would be forced to assume it's some sort of ploy or trick or the person had straight lost their mind. Unless there was some motivation or ulterior motivation, she would disassociate. In reality, if this happened to you, you would be massively alienated and this never seems to occur with Fantasia'd characters. People just carry on after about one day of weirdness which is utterly unrealistic.

 

I would be willing to entertain the idea of some sort of epic tale around it but the scope of people who would be involved in figuring out what happened is much smaller than the amount of people the Fantasia will actually affect. In short, the majority of people your character interacts with will always be left wondering why you're 2 feet tall now unless you tell straight them which is....heavy handed RP to say the least

 

TL;DR Roll a new character. Don't force everyone around you to focus on your change. Fantasia can DIAF.

 

Man, the bolded stuff makes for some really great RP prompts! 

 

Gets my writin' hand itchin'.

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I'll be completely honest and say I am totally, utterly and wholeheartedly against this.

 

A lot of things people don't think about is how everyone else has to act/RP around you now because of the massive change. It's literally waking up one day and you're a different race and look 100% different. It will have MASSIVE detrimental effects on your character's relationships with others. How is your lover supposed to feel when they look at you and see someone they don't recognize? What about family or children when they don't recognize their mother/father? How would your friends and colleagues build the rapport and trust back up again?

 

It utterly makes NO sense and no one really roleplays it correctly. It forces a certain amount of blending into the RP that I am not comfortable with because I, as a player, understand full well that a Fantasia was used but my character won't recognize this person if she walked by them in Ul'dah. So unless the Fantasa'd character approaches her she'd think they vanished unless she heard a rumour etc.

 

Even in this world with magic, there is really no precedent for this kind of radical change. My character would be forced to assume it's some sort of ploy or trick or the person had straight lost their mind. Unless there was some motivation or ulterior motivation, she would disassociate. In reality, if this happened to you, you would be massively alienated and this never seems to occur with Fantasia'd characters. People just carry on after about one day of weirdness which is utterly unrealistic.

 

I would be willing to entertain the idea of some sort of epic tale around it but the scope of people who would be involved in figuring out what happened is much smaller than the amount of people the Fantasia will actually affect. In short, the majority of people your character interacts with will always be left wondering why you're 2 feet tall now unless you tell straight them which is....heavy handed RP to say the least

 

TL;DR Roll a new character. Don't force everyone around you to focus on your change. Fantasia can DIAF.

 

Man, the bolded stuff makes for some really great RP prompts! 

 

Gets my writin' hand itchin'.

Ain't it the truth!

 

Roswyn's right, though. Fantasia is a terrible thing to have in-game. I have seen exactly two people in this game use it correctly. Both times treated the fantasia as a pretty serious, grim piece of magic. 

 

In one, a certain malicious scientist transformed everyone's favorite lalafell into a Miqo'te. It took him weeks to be able to stop tripping over his own tail and to re-learn how to fight in his new body. He's still dealing with the ramifications of that. When he changed, no one ICly recognized him. There are people to this day who are ICly convinced that it's all a trick, that this miqo'te imposter is part of some plan to fool people.

 

In the other, a Hyur was transformed into a Miqo'te. The size difference was much less, and she had a much easier time learning how to move, but differences in her senses and perceptions caused her a great deal of difficulty. For various reasons, people were more prone to recognize her when she announced who she was, but they reacted to her in extremely powerful ways. This was a much more recent piece of RP, so I haven't been able to see the long-term ramifications, but they've basically been the focus of her RP since it happened.

 

That, people, is how it should be done, if at all. None of this "Hi! It's Bob! I'm a Miqo'te now!"

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Who are these Miqo'te and where can I meet them?

 

I have indeed met some of these challenges in regards to relationships in RP. Some people have vetted Kage and others are very, very skeptical. Some find it great amusement and others do not trust him one bit. It was entirely expected. It was and is meant to cause Kage strife. His family disowned him. Friends are either confused or suspicious. Some have sworn to lend him their aid should he figure out a way back to his original form. Others think he is an imposter because of both his appearance and the recent actions that he had to take for someone he loved.

 

I won't even go into the physical changes and adjustments since C covered that pretty well.

 

One day... one day in the far future Kage is going to be able to meet the one-who-should-not-ever-smile-for-fear-of-the-Calamity-coming-once-more.

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I think the correct way to go about Fantasia is to say it's an incredibly rare substance as mentioned before through comments and 'flavor text'. Perhaps it can only be made by an herb of some sorts that is extremely hard to find. Those who sell it put it up for a very high price, something no one without a fat wallet can afford. Only other option is to make it yourself, and that requires a vast knowledge of botany, Alchemy, and possibly DoW magics to enchant the contents, granted you can obtain such contents.

 

The Fantasia can work by having the person who takes it enter a brief coma. In this coma they enter a stasis or a dream where they can imagine what they want to be. And once they are finished, the Fantasia takes place and changes their body to what they want to become. This would be consistent with the 'flavor text' where they lie down for the evening and wake up a new man or woman.

 

This keeps people from abusing this to increase reproduction in dying species such as the Miqo'te (( In-game, they are suppose to be rare and few in numbers. I know, any RP server you'd think they were popping out of the womb like popcorn )) via money / resource disparity. And the second note will also prevent others from using this to bolster war efforts by turning an army of men into cute little lalafels, because they'd not only have to drink it, but then have to want to be a lalafel, two unlikely things to happen.

 

I do agree this procedure does bring a strain on a roleplay scenario by having someone 'poof' into someone else in the blink of an eye. But in a world where magic can be used to bring someone back from the dead, conjure the elements to your bidding, and furthermore summon demons of unimaginable power to your will.. I think Fantasia is the least of most people's concerns. A lot of crazy things happen in Final Fantasy, and having someone grow a tail and cat-ears should only be a mild shock. 

 

Just need to look at this through the lenses of the characters living in Final Fantasy and not through the lenses of our current society, because in our world, half the shit that goes on in Final Fantasy would have everyone in a mental institute.

 

P.S. I would have Fantasia bring some harsh consequences. As if obtaining it wasn't bad enough, perhaps it can shorten your life span due to the increase activity in cellular productivity. Maybe it has a decent chance to sometimes malfunction, making it unreliable. There's many ways to go about doing this, but somethings needs to be done because otherwise, as mentioned in previous comments, people would be drinking this whenever they get their hands on it, and that's not how such a potent spell should be treated. There must be a balance. A great spell with such potential MUST have extreme drawbacks. The pros and cons must have equal weight.

 

[[ Thoughts and / or feedback would greatly be appreciated! I do like the idea of Fantasia due to the creativity it brings forth to roleplay. Not everyone has to agree with me, but those that would like to voice constructive criticism to develop this idea, I'm all ears. ]]

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Fantasias aren't canon, developers have said so. I like to leave it at that and disregard the countless excuses people think of for not listening to them.

 

That being said, race-changing in Eorzea is too frequent not to achknowledge, but I refuse to let it be the center of my RP. Oskwell's attitude towards the whoe situation boils down to "Oh, you're an X now, huh?" and then next topic. I've yet to see any roleplay regarding race changing that was actually interesting, even though I've seen interesting characters do it. "Oh, look, I've got a tail/a dick/breasts/muscles/horns now!" has never screamed "MUST ROLEPLAY" to me.

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I think everyone else has answered your question quite thoroughly. As you can see, there are many mixed opinions about it! Personally I don't agree with it used on a regular basis, but I have two friends who use it ICly all the time and are having much more fun roleplaying than I ever have haha. :blush: Whatever makes you happy! It just makes me sad as I find it difficult to roleplay with them because of this.

 

Welcome back! :P

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I've used a Fantasia's effects for an IC context.  After Glioca had a literal fight with herself at the edge of the Void, all of the color bled out of her hair and eyes, leaving them white/silver respectively.  Once upon a time, her eyes were a lovely shade of purple, and her hair was black for a while (dyed from it's more natural red).  I've never directly used Fantasia in RP as an actual Fantasia. 

 

I don't see a problem with it, however, if a person wants to use it to advance their plot, or take their character in a new direction. That said, the devs did say it's not an IC/in-lore thing, but I've seen some really good takes on it, so I'm in the 'do what you want as long as it's plausible/you're happy with the results' camp.  It might create conflict with people, but even conflicting RP can be good RP sometimes.  If others don't agree with it, well, ultimately they have the option of cutting contact.  It might be a good idea to just ask those you RP with consistently if they'd be comfortable with a change, or how their character might react. 

 

If there's an overwhelming nope response, it might be time to either find a different circle of people to RP with, or look at a more drastic change to your character, or even a character death with a new character coming up in their place (I've done that last one).  Either way, do what you feel most comfortable with, and what works the best for you in-RP and in-story.

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We've got a thread necromancer on the forums lately. At least this isn't from 2010, but it is from last summer. :P

 

For me, it's just overused. If I only saw it every once in a while, I probably wouldn't be fazed, but I see IC Fantasia use constantly, and for me, it's tired.

 

For people who are enjoying the possibilities it opens up, though, I say the more power to them.

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I just choose to ignore it because for me the world doesn't make any sense if it's any sort of common.

 

I've been surprised how easy it is to do this.  As long as people aren't shoving their fantasia stories in my face (which doesn't seem to happen) it's pretty easy to just sort of "skip ahead" with the person and not have RP related to "reacting to race change" if you don't want to, or don't enjoy that kind of RP, or (like many of us) don't accept Fantasia or any kind of IC race changing as remotely plausible.

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Fantasias aren't canon, developers have said so.

 

One guy on the localization team told a relative of theirs in a dinner conversation, that the relative then posted on tumblr, that the Fantasia probably wasn't meant to be taken as canon... That's not even devs, plural. Nor was it a definite answer. Other than that I don't know of any instance someone working on the game has spoken on the state of Fantasia in the lore. The significance of the localization team's input into the lore of the game isn't to be underestimated, but don't overstate it either.

 

 

All that aside, I don't have a big wall of text to contribute to the discussion, but I'll offer my opinion. I'm not wholly against Fantasia-- or much of anything, honestly, as long as it exists in the game in some form somewhere or is a reasonable stretch from something that is. It's definitely not something to be taken lightly, either, that being said. A couple friends of mine have used it in RP, but under the stipulation that the character who sold it to the other already deals in rare potions as it is, and the Fantasia is a very, very expensive and rare item which they've only ever had pass through their hands once or twice in all their years of business. I think that's fair. Neither of them bring it up in conversation, it was a very quiet RP that was mostly kept on the down-low and just within our own circle of friends, and honestly, if that's how you're going to RP something, I'd say almost anything goes as long as it's alright with the people involved.

 

To anyone who argues "if it exists why don't we see it being weaponized/used more often" etc, that's why, I would say. It's very rare, expensive, difficult to make, etc. Just not efficient to use at all except for very specific or special cases (such as, as someone pointed out, transgender characters? which is what my friends had used it for in their RP). Of course, as much as it's mine or anyone else's right to use it in RP, it's the right of others to not use it in their RP if they don't want to. I just tend to be pretty chill about it as long as the storytelling/writing around it is good and it's fun for the people involved.

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To anyone who argues "if it exists why don't we see it being weaponized/used more often" etc, that's why, I would say. It's very rare, expensive, difficult to make, etc. Just not efficient to use at all except for very specific or special cases (such as, as someone pointed out, transgender characters? which is what my friends had used it for in their RP).

 

 

My main problem with this is... how wealthy are these characters who are using the "rare extremely expensive potion" explanation? How do they justify spending such a great deal of wealth on something that is essentially cosmetic? It would take a very wealthy, very extravagant person who is extremely vain to spend a small fortune changing their appearance on a whim.

 

Also... 2.0 spoilers --

 

The Main Story Quest involves a complex deception plot by some of the wealthiest people in the realm - who presumably would have been able to afford this rare, expensive potion for their own purposes.  And yet you never see it anywhere, it's never spoken of.

 

 

I'm only saying this for posterity and food for thought, of course.  People can RP however they want, but they should know when their "explanations" aren't persuasive.

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In fairness, Fernehalwes's statement regarding Fantasia and how it works at London Fan Fest means that you couldn't use it for that purpose:

 

"Fantasia works in a unique way. I can’t simply turn you into whoever you want, or people could get away with anything. Crime would be out of control. Even on Earth, people have the opportunity to change who they are – cut their hair, get a facelift, find a new career or a different spouse – but we often aren’t willing to make those drastic life changes. Fantasia gives you the courage to make the changes you’ve always wanted to make. Maybe you are Lalafell trapped in a Roegadyn’s body, it’s time to break out! And all you needed was that courage in a phial!" (reference)

 

EDIT: Yes, I know this is a... unique dev statement here. :) I'm not saying this specifies anything about fantasia one way or another, just that the devs are aware of what rampant "plastic surgery in a bottle" could do.

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I find this explanation wholly unsatisfactory.  2.0 spoilers --

 

 

The Main Story Quest involves a complex deception plot by some of the wealthiest people in the realm - who presumably would have been able to afford this rare, expensive potion for their own purposes.  And yet you never see it anywhere, it's never spoken of.

 

My second and main problem with this is... how wealthy are these characters who are using the "rare extremely expensive potion" explanation?  How do they justify spending such a great deal of wealth on something that is essentially cosmetic?  It would take a very wealthy, very extravagant person who is extremely vain to spend a small fortune changing their appearance on a whim.

 

I'm only saying this for posterity and food for thought, of course.  People can RP however they want, but they should know when their "explanations" aren't persuasive.

 

 

 

 

I don't know if you're responding like, in general or to the specific situation I presented of my friends using it, but I was trying to make it very clear I wouldn't suggest should using it to "change their appearance on a whim", and what they were using for was very much not "essentially cosmetic". I think the reason my friends (and people who use the Fantasia for similar purposes) used it for was completely valid and justified! I too kinda frown on it being taken lightly, just because that's not, like, super compelling to me, storytelling-wise? But only just kinda frown.

 

Also it's possible those super rich characters in question just weren't interested in it? Or possible side-effects? Who knows?

 

In fairness, Fernehalwes's statement regarding Fantasia and how it works at London Fan Fest means that you couldn't use it for that purpose:

 

"Fantasia works in a unique way. I can’t simply turn you into whoever you want, or people could get away with anything. Crime would be out of control. Even on Earth, people have the opportunity to change who they are – cut their hair, get a facelift, find a new career or a different spouse – but we often aren’t willing to make those drastic life changes. Fantasia gives you the courage to make the changes you’ve always wanted to make. Maybe you are Lalafell trapped in a Roegadyn’s body, it’s time to break out! And all you needed was that courage in a phial!" (reference)

 

EDIT: Yes, I know this is a... unique dev statement here. :) I'm not saying this specifies anything about fantasia one way or another, just that the devs are aware of what rampant "plastic surgery in a bottle" could do.

 

Ah, I gladly stand corrected! I forgot Fernehalwes had said something on it, too. Thanks for that!

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I don't know if you're responding like, in general or to the specific situation I presented of my friends using it, but I was trying to make it very clear I wouldn't suggest should using it to "change their appearance on a whim", and what they were using for was very much not "essentially cosmetic". 

 

I was responding in general.  It's a really commonly used explanation for Fantasia and I've seen it used in connection with the "Glamour" justification a lot recently, too.  People from tribal backgrounds having enough wealth to purchase an extremely luxurious commodity for the purpose of changing their appearance.  People should just be aware that it raises more questions than it answers... where did the money come from?  Why did the character feel so strongly about changing their race that they expended such a great deal of wealth on it?  And so on.  Sadly people have a tendency to leave these unanswered and treat the Fantasia issue as something they wish would just go away.

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I don't know if you're responding like, in general or to the specific situation I presented of my friends using it, but I was trying to make it very clear I wouldn't suggest should using it to "change their appearance on a whim", and what they were using for was very much not "essentially cosmetic". 

 

I was responding in general.  It's a really commonly used explanation for Fantasia and I've seen it used in connection with the "Glamour" justification a lot recently, too.  People from tribal backgrounds having enough wealth to purchase an extremely luxurious commodity for the purpose of changing their appearance.  People should just be aware that it raises more questions than it answers... where did the money come from?  Why did the character feel so strongly about changing their race that they expended such a great deal of wealth on it?  And so on.  Sadly people have a tendency to leave these unanswered and treat the Fantasia issue as something they wish would just go away.

 

Ah, we're basically of the same mind then. I just feel like I'm probably more lax/forgiving than a lot of people in this thread (at least in the first few pages or so). That kind of stuff falls into the "as long as the storytelling/writing around it is good and it's fun for the people involved" thing.

 

Every situation's different, depending on the characters, which/how many characters around them that it's going to effect, etc.... it's something a lot of thought should be put into on a situational basis for sure, and the mileage may vary. But for now I'm going to say it should be possible because I'd rather have more storytelling options than less.

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My character was involved in an aetheric reaction (explosion) due to an investigation of high aetheric activity outside of Mor Dhona. He randomly changes appearances and goes on as if that was his (or her) body from birth. His memories are in tact, but all past events were as the current body with no recollection or knowledge that a change has even occurred. The same with the name change; one day hes "Jaad" the next he could be Aeylin (the same applies, after a random change has occurred, that is who he is, you can address him as the former, but he'd stare at you confused or think you were addressing someone else)

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I've just come back after a about two months of RL getting in the way and I see that Fantasia's are buyable now?

 

What is the consensus of using one ICly to change race / sex ect...?

 

Please let me know! :)

 

Also, Hello to anyone who knows / cared enough to miss me. xD

 

Hi I didn't know you to miss you but welcome back.

 

According the the FFXIV dev team during one of the fanfests, the Fantasia potion 'gives you the courage to be who you always were on the inside' rather than actually changing you. 

 

In other words, that's their cute way of saying it is not actually in lore...Or that it's some truly epic booze.

 

The ONLY time that I would personally go with a Fantasia IC is if the character never actually changed how they looked and it was all in their head, and that would be played for laughs.

 

So official lore says Fantasia isn't a thing. Feel free to take that information as you will. It's your RP and you can play it how you want. I personally go by official game lore as much as possible, but that's me and you're you.

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I'm going to be in the minority I suspect, but I don't much care for it. Just hanging out in the Quicksand has let me overhear probably a dozen "I drank it by accident / it spilled on me / someone baked it into cookies" and while there's nothing inherently wrong with that...

 

It makes me wonder why we're not just weaponizing it and turning every enemy we find into someone else. RIP Dravanian horde, you are now all lalafell.

 

(I only read to this comment, so I'm not going to respond to all of you. Sorry.)

 

This is exactly how I feel about it. While there is lore behind Fantasia (sort of...?) and you can't be called out for it by anyone who has the slightest patience for other people, I've always kind of seen it as a "Really? That's how you wanted to handle this?" situation.

 

You can IC it if you want, but it'd be a lot more refreshing if you just didn't. Because while there's lore within the Fantasia tooltip, it doesn't really specify how that works. I doubt you're ICly brought to a character creation screen. We don't really know if it turns you into something random or something you want or something the person who gave it to you wants. It's more messy and goofy than just a retcon.

 

If that's how you want to play it, fine, go for it. I'm not trying to stop anyone from playing the game how they want, but personally I try to avoid it.

 

Ftr, I started my main (Uther) as a Hyur Midlander, but once I started questing in Coerthas early in ARR I decided he'd fit better as an Elezen. I just retconned him to have always been Elezen, but his father gave all of his children Midlander given names to teach them some humility from birth, since the Midlanders are generally less fortunate overall than Elezen in Ishgard, but just as brave/righteous/cool/whatever.

 

This is a bit rambly, but my point is there are better ways to go about it than IC race changes, although that is an option.

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