Non-Adventurers and the Quicksand

[Tiergan]

1) OP - Can you PM me the names of those two RPers? I would like to blacklist them instantaneously.

 

Particularly since I have a strong feeling the L-named player is someone I've heard about before. I've little to no interest in RPing with douche-canoes.

 

2) For all their crowing about how the game makes it 'clear' the Quicksand is only for adventurers, they completely forget that when you first sign up at the Quicksand with Momodi, one of the things we see is a gambler who is very, very down on his luck getting a shakedown by a fancy lalafell and his bodyguards. Based upon the way he dressed and acted, I'd be REALLY hard-pressed to say he was an adventurer.

 

Then there's some of the quests you get in the Quicksand, by people who appear to be customers who aren't adventurers based upon the quest text and the way they're dressed: Botulf (no weapons, dressed in crafting gear and talks about how hard it is to be a merchant in Ul'dah), and Kekezani (also no weapons or adventuring gear. Likely works at the Uldah Dispatch yard.

[Kage]

To be honest, to try to say it nicely...

 

It's a misunderstood and well... wrong take of the lore to say that non-adventurers cannot be in the Quicksand.

[Auralily]

To be honest, to try to say it nicely...

 

It's a misunderstood and well... wrong take of the lore to say that non-adventurers cannot be in the Quicksand.

 

I agree, and I did try to point that out. All of these points. And all that was being said back to me was "I don't like your character's backstory. And the story quest says it's adventurers only!" I would ask for specific information, and their only response was "Clearly you haven't done the story." "You probably just skipped through all of your text." Well.. no, it's just been 9 months or so since I did it, so a refresher on when it says "Adventurers ONLY!" would be nice. Because nothing I recall from any story, or anything said by this community, or by any information from various sites describing Ul'dah and The Quicksand, remotely come close to agreeing with that notion.

[Kage]

What I do know of that -is- adventurer's only that I sort have hand-waved (so screw me)... The Housing wards are specifically stated in game to be open only to Adventurers. ((well boohoo >.>))

 

Guild-specific stuff are, and well the Quicksand is NOT guild-specific privilege.

[FreelanceWizard]

What I do know of that -is- adventurer's only that I sort have hand-waved (so screw me)... The Housing wards are specifically stated in game to be open only to Adventurers.

 

I seem to recall it's just the owning of property that falls into that category. Otherwise, why would you have non-adventurer employees there? At any rate, there are some pretty easy ways to handwave that and still stick with the lore:

• You pay an adventurer down on their luck to hold the title to the property.
  
• One of the people who owns the title is actually an adventurer.
  
• A Free Company acts as a holding company, owning the title to the property and leasing it back to you.
  

[L'lani Tyata]

After reading that there's only explanation for it. The people claiming that the Quicksand is exclusive are trolling. Been playing since beta and that's the first instance of such happening that I've ever heard about.

[Kage]

What I do know of that -is- adventurer's only that I sort have hand-waved (so screw me)... The Housing wards are specifically stated in game to be open only to Adventurers.

 

I seem to recall it's just the owning of property that falls into that category. Otherwise, why would you have non-adventurer employees there? At any rate, there are some pretty easy ways to handwave that and still stick with the lore:

• You pay an adventurer down on their luck to hold the title to the property.
  
• One of the people who owns the title is actually an adventurer.
  
• A Free Company acts as a holding company, owning the title to the property and leasing it back to you.
  

 

Oops! That's what I meant. The ownership of housing there. Being at work fries my brain...

[Tiergan]

What irks me more is that they claimed the Quicksand wasn't a tavern when it has been a tavern since 1.0.

 

And if we want more 2.0 evidence, when you first meet Momodi, she says to you: "Name's Momodi, and I own this fine establishment, if it please you.

 

I also manage the Adventurers' Guild here in Ul'dah."

 

If the Quicksand is synonymous with the Adventurers' Guild, it wouldn't make much sense why she would have to clarify that she's also running the AG. And if anyone argues that she was trying to reference the Hourglass as 'this fine establishment' - the quest that sends you to met her, specifically sends you to the Quicksand and makes no mention of the inn.

[Auralily]

Well, while we are on the topic, of sorts. 

 

What precisely qualifies as an Adventurer? I'm not expressly against the idea of being one, I never was. I probably just got defensive because being told how to RP without any constructive criticism irks me. Are the Grand Company soldiers considered Adventurers as a whole? Are people with a dedicated job, whether it's as Sultanasworn, Yellow Jacket, crafter, etc. considered Adventurers?

[Blue]

I do remember one of my characters being "ICly harassed" for being a non-adventurer in the Quicksands. Though she wasn't even there just for a drink; rather, she was looking for an adventurer to hire.

 

The adventurer who harassed her told her to put her request up to the guild leve counter and leave the place for its rightful patrons. I don't know, it felt kind of mean...

 

But really, these people who claim the adventurers' guilds should be used only by adventurers are often the same people who approve of non-adventurer buildings in the FC housing districts. Does not lore claim that the wards can only be used by adventurers? Yet there's plenty of pubs, theaters and whatnot.

 

To follow the lore is good and all, but it's something that you decide to do, not something you decide to impose to others. When I decide to follow an aspect of the lore and see people disrespecting it, all I do is just change topic and pretend I did not see/hear that. It makes everybody happier, I'd say.

[TheLastCandle]

Well, while we are on the topic, of sorts. 

 

What precisely qualifies as an Adventurer? I'm not expressly against the idea of being one, I never was. I probably just got defensive because being told how to RP without any constructive criticism irks me. Are the Grand Company soldiers considered Adventurers as a whole? Are people with a dedicated job, whether it's as Sultanasworn, Yellow Jacket, crafter, etc. considered Adventurers?

In all of the Grand Companies, the structure is such that there is one particular unit/squadron/whatever that is composed mostly or entirely of adventurers. In the Maelstrom, this is the Foreign Levy, and in the Twin Adders it's the Yellow Serpents. (I'm not particularly versed in the Flames' lore, so I'm not sure about that one.)

 

As for Sultansworn and the Yellow Jackets - I suppose they could be, but the nature of such a position would seem to demand that the members of those spend all or most of their time in their home city performing their duties.

[Kage]

Indeed what Aerghwab said (I took 20 sec to check if I typed that out correctly and I'm still wondering if I did).

 

Anyway, for the Immortal Flames it's the Free Brigade under Commander Swift. The other foreign brigade is made up of Ala Mhigans. The other main brigades are those who volunteer (like for the army), they enlisted.

[Aysun]

Reading this.. kind of blows my mind. While I'm known to have some particular views on aspects of the lore myself (though it's about things that are not clearcut, like this IS), the idea of forcing them down people's throats like that, and being blatantly WRONG..? Wow.

 

The advice given so far has been spot on. Just have to express my /jaw drop to that conversation.

[FreelanceWizard]

What precisely qualifies as an Adventurer? I'm not expressly against the idea of being one, I never was. I probably just got defensive because being told how to RP without any constructive criticism irks me. Are the Grand Company soldiers considered Adventurers as a whole? Are people with a dedicated job, whether it's as Sultanasworn, Yellow Jacket, crafter, etc. considered Adventurers?

 

Now that's a complicated question.

 

If we're talking strictly about what we see in game through quests, the term seems to mean "free-roving mercenary troubleshooter without a primary affiliation to another organization." The MSQ and side quests show adventurers as people who professionally take jobs to clear out "bad guys" (the first three dungeon quests), who engage in freelance archaeology and search and rescue (prelude quests for Cutter's Cry, Wanderer's Palace, relic weapon, etc.), supply running (Ishgard side quests), etc. Basically, the game frames adventurers as wandering do-gooders who exist outside of the normal sociopolitical systems -- albeit do-gooders who typically expect to be paid. So, Sultansworn, Yellowjackets, Grand Company regulars, and the like wouldn't normally be considered adventurers by this definition, since they have a primary affiliation to an existing political structure. The ones who join a Grand Company are, as others pointed out, members of a specific unit for adventurers, and are typically sent on "sensitive" missions that require particularly resourceful people (Dzemael Darkhold, Aurum Vale).

 

If we're talking IC-wise, it seems that anyone who goes out into the wilds in search of fortune can plausibly call themselves an adventurer. We can joke about the "adventurers' license" one receives from signing on with the Guild, but realistically, if your character calls him or herself an adventurer, then they are one. Whether people accept that or not IC depends on the tales you tell, abilities you exhibit, and such.

[111]

What I do know of that -is- adventurer's only that I sort have hand-waved (so screw me)... The Housing wards are specifically stated in game to be open only to Adventurers.

 

I seem to recall it's just the owning of property that falls into that category. Otherwise, why would you have non-adventurer employees there? At any rate, there are some pretty easy ways to handwave that and still stick with the lore:

• You pay an adventurer down on their luck to hold the title to the property.
  
• One of the people who owns the title is actually an adventurer.
  
• A Free Company acts as a holding company, owning the title to the property and leasing it back to you.
  

 

Or in Ul'dah.

 

"Sorry sir, we can sell to adventurer's only."

 

*drops bulging sack of gold coins on housing agent's desk*

 

"WELCOME TO YOUR NEW HOME."

[TheLastCandle]

Indeed what Aerghwab said (I took 20 sec to check if I typed that out correctly and I'm still wondering if I did).

 

Anyway, for the Immortal Flames it's the Free Brigade under Commander Swift. The other foreign brigade is made up of Ala Mhigans. The other main brigades are those who volunteer (like for the army), they enlisted.

Heheh. Them Roegadyn names.  Just call me Hwab (hawk) if you like.

 

If we're talking IC-wise' date=' it seems that anyone who goes out into the wilds in search of fortune can plausibly call themselves an adventurer. We can joke about the "adventurers' license" one receives from signing on with the Guild, but realistically, if your character calls him or herself an adventurer, then they are one. Whether people accept that or not IC depends on the tales you tell, abilities you exhibit, and such.[/quote']

 

And pretty much this. 'Adventurer' seems to be applied pretty loosely to any number of freelance mercenaries, free paladins, knights-errant, what have you.

[Auralily]

Adventurers just came out as Mercenaries who worked for good-will over coin, and even then, coin too! And Merc archetypes is one I prefer to avoid. My Elezen's story is muddled, that can't be helped. But my Lalafell is an Officer of the Immortal Flames. Not an Adventurer, just a dedicated soldier.

[Yune]

Wow... I knew that there would be a wide variety of roleplayers on this server, but I never imagined that there would be people like that.

 

I'm sorry you had to deal with that. It's never a good feeling when you're harassed needlessly by stubborn pricks who expect everyone to abide by their canon for the world. It's a world we all share, and with such a creative array of backstories driving each of our characters forward, no one should have a right to tell others where to be or how lore "actually" works.

 

As was mentioned before, and it was a thought I also had while reading, the Adventurer's Guild seems attached to the tavern in the way that a Subway or McDonalds can be found in your local WalMart. Others have stated that you see non-adventurers out and about during side quests and cutscenes, so if these all-seeing, all-knowing people actually read dialogue and paid close attention to all of these circumstances that they're trying to lord over everyone else, they'd realize they were being dumb and all sorts of citizens/"civilians" frequent the establishment. In my opinion, IC and OOC, Momodi doesn't really strike me as the type who would rage at non-adventurers and be like "OMFG GET OUT!!!111" She seems welcoming to everyone, the only difference is that with everyone's character, you're put through the scenario that you were sent to her because you're an adventurer looking to find your place in the city. But, not everyone is using the events of the Main Story at all in their personal canon.

 

I wouldn't be discouraged by them though. If they ever appear again to harass, you don't need to do much else but keep your head held high and continue playing your character as they are meant to be played. Whether that means being scared away from the area or standing your ground to argue. Arguing is usually never fun though, and almost always pointless in the end, especially when you have people like these with a stick so far up their ass they cough up wood chips.

 

Personally, my character isn't a typical "adventurer" either. So I hope I never run into people like these, but if I do... Well, I'll tell you all how it goes. ;;

[Mae]

Well, while we are on the topic, of sorts. 

 

What precisely qualifies as an Adventurer? I'm not expressly against the idea of being one, I never was. I probably just got defensive because being told how to RP without any constructive criticism irks me. Are the Grand Company soldiers considered Adventurers as a whole? Are people with a dedicated job, whether it's as Sultanasworn, Yellow Jacket, crafter, etc. considered Adventurers?

I kind of just consider the term 'adventurer' in XIV as a sort of blanket term to apply to anyone that has the potential to be something other than just a mundane civilian.

 

I wish I could remember exactly where I either heard/or saw this, but a conversation with a Dev at some point brought up that only a portion of the population (not including Garleans) has enough control over their own personal aether to use aetherytes/aethernet reliably -- this is why a PC will return to an aetheryte when KO'd/in critical condition whereas most non-adventurer NPC will likely die in the field and their body remains there. So, this makes me think that from a game-mechanic-explained-with-lore-reasons standpoint, that there is -some- other quality out there (not necessarily the Echo, because that's supposed to be rare) and that not everyone decides to do the "go out and fight monsters and go on fantastic adventures!" thing just because they have it.

 

Lack of this quality (from a mechanic standpoint) also isn't a hindrance for people trying out to go and fight monsters, as that party you see during the missions revolving the first three dungeons illustrates.

 

Most other games, adventurers just seem to be a portion of the population that go out and do things above the regular civilian norm -- they may not always be combative or magic users, but they certainly don't just sit around town, raising a family, working a regular job, having an un-eventful life.

[FreelanceWizard]

I wish I could remember exactly where I either heard/or saw this, but a conversation with a Dev at some point brought up that only a portion of the population (not including Garleans) has enough control over their own personal aether to use aetherytes/aethernet reliably (...)

 

This dev post is the one that comes to my mind, but it doesn't explicitly address the whole "being pulled back to an Aetheryte when at the brink of death" thing, which I also remember reading. Anyone got a Fernehalwes link of the other one for us?

[Tiergan]

When I decide to follow an aspect of the lore and see people disrespecting it, all I do is just change topic and pretend I did not see/hear that. It makes everybody happier, I'd say.

 

Agreed. This is generally the more polite thing to do.

 

I'm all for people having a strict adherence to the lore if it makes them happy, but if you see another RPer roleplaying in a way that doesn't suit you - it's just polite to bow out of the RP than to spend time harassing them IC and OOC over it.

[Blue]

 

Well, while we are on the topic, of sorts. 

 

What precisely qualifies as an Adventurer? I'm not expressly against the idea of being one, I never was. I probably just got defensive because being told how to RP without any constructive criticism irks me. Are the Grand Company soldiers considered Adventurers as a whole? Are people with a dedicated job, whether it's as Sultanasworn, Yellow Jacket, crafter, etc. considered Adventurers?

I kind of just consider the term 'adventurer' in XIV as a sort of blanket term to apply to anyone that has the potential to be something other than just a mundane civilian.

 

I wish I could remember exactly where I either heard/or saw this, but a conversation with a Dev at some point brought up that only a portion of the population (not including Garleans) has enough control over their own personal aether to use aetherytes/aethernet reliably -- this is why a PC will return to an aetheryte when KO'd/in critical condition whereas most non-adventurer NPC will likely die in the field and their body remains there. So, this makes me think that from a game-mechanic-explained-with-lore-reasons standpoint, that there is -some- other quality out there (not necessarily the Echo, because that's supposed to be rare) and that not everyone decides to do the "go out and fight monsters and go on fantastic adventures!" thing just because they have it.

 

Lack of this quality (from a mechanic standpoint) also isn't a hindrance for people trying out to go and fight monsters, as that party you see during the missions revolving the first three dungeons illustrates.

 

Most other games, adventurers just seem to be a portion of the population that go out and do things above the regular civilian norm -- they may not always be combative or magic users, but they certainly don't just sit around town, raising a family, working a regular job, having an un-eventful life.

 

Overall agree to this. However, to a more simplified standpoint, I usually tend to consider (as much as it pertains myself and my opinion) an adventurer any person who did ICly sign up at any of the three registers of the adventurers guilds. Like any other guild, to be considered a lancer, you'd sign up at the Lancers' guild counter, and so on. I am to believe the adventurers' guild to be the same: if you want access to the privileges of an Adventurer, such as getting assigned Leves (tasks from citizens in need), and eventually be rewarded with a free room at the local in, then you should sign up to Momodi/Miounne/Baderon's register.

[Yune]

I can agree that a person could be playing their personal character in a way so that they are "officially" considered an Adventurer who, as Blue just stated, signed the register at the Guild. This makes it very direct and easy to justify your character's access to the perks of the Quicksand (Leves, the Hourglass, etc). But...

 

What if, say, a character earned the trust of Momodi through prior events in their backstory without being an "adventurer"? I believe someone quoted an NPC somewhere about gaining access to something after proving yourself "trustworthy"? Wouldn't this also stand to reason that any character, even a "civilian", could be a friend or good acquaintance of Momodi and have access to those perks like any other adventurer? You don't need to necessarily slay some magical Golem or consider only Main Story quests as the justification that you have "exclusive access" to both the tavern and the inn. It's Momodi's establishment, so realistically it's up to her who can and can't be there or have access to the perks. Sure, I can understand civilians not being able to take on Leves (unless they were for their gather/crafting jobs), but what if a skilled acquaintance of hers needed a place to rest their weary self after some grueling task that was unaffiliated with the Guild? I don't think she would just turn them away, whether their name was scribbled down on a piece of paper or not.

 

In the end, I think it all really comes down to just how specific/particular a person wants to be about the overall canon. Some may want to say "You are ONLY an Adventurer/deserve to be here if you signed the register and have Momodi/Miounne/Baderon's seal of approval". Others may go with the belief that realistic relationships can exist with NPCs, or that those NPCs in question actually have more "life" to them than simply following some robotic script that dictates they can ONLY open their doors for people who fulfill X-Y-Z conditions. Personally, I think it adds a little more depth to the world to show these relationships or differing circumstances between individuals. Why does everyone in a tavern have to be a part of some exclusive brotherhood/club in order to be accepted? Maybe you were just a good friend of Momodi and she often gives a friendly invite to drop on by for a drink or two sometime. *shrug*

 

But conflicting opinions/RP styles are always bound to be had. The best you can really do is just respect that everyone has their own style of play. You may meet once or twice, but once you realize how different your styles are, it's very doubtful you'll spend a whole lot of time interacting beyond that point, and after that, you're on your way again, playing out your own story with other like-minded individuals. Even still, everyone should respect another person's character rather than spit on them like that. We are all roleplayers who, I would assume, deeply appreciate the art and the creativity that can thrive from such pursuits. Just like in the real world, we have to acknowledge (as our characters) that people have walked very different paths. It may not be what we expect or can easily accept as "normal" depending on our own experiences, but even so, those different paths will inevitably intersect somewhere and show just how varied we are as a society.

 

And... I'm rambling.

[Sounsyy]

/swoops in wearing a cape reading Lore Check.

 

Establishments hosting AGs are not Adventurer exclusive!

 

/topples back out the broken window.

 

"Adventurers" actually have lore, history, and purpose! Back in 1557 6AE, the city-state of Ala Mhigo fell to the Garlean Empire. Fearing the Garleans would immediately invade deeper into Eorzea the remaining city-states began drafting volunteer soldiers. Lots of them. However, the anticipated invasion never came.

 

It wasn't until 1562 6AE that the Garleans attempted to advance deeper into the heart of Eorzea. So what became of all those drafted soldiers? Five years is a long time to wait for an invasion, and the city-states could not pay or feed the army they had amassed. So the soldiers took their unused military training and became mercenaries.

 

Forgive me for forgetting his name as I'm on vacation w/o a laptop, but it was Baderon's father who establishes the first "Guild" for these wayward soldiers. He offers them food and shelter in exchange for the promise of doing what they were drafted to do - help the people of Eorzea(and make a little money on the side).

 

 

As for AG host establishments being exclusive, I think we've got enough Quicksand text to say its safe for non-adventurers. Lets look at the Carline Canopy. This was built by Miounne's grandfather before she was born. If Adventurers are only 20 years old, it would be impossible to be adventurer exclusive. Beyond this, we can look at the clientele. Downstairs you'll find some merchants who are not adventurers. And what about Wood Wailers present within the Guild? They are most certainly not adventurers. If such an establishment were exclusive, they would likely hire Adventurer Guards, not local law enforcement. The fact that the airship docks are attached to the Carline Canopy and The Drowning Wench makes their being exclusive impossible. So only adventurers can ride airships now? The airship cutscene shows this is not the case.

 

So anyone who says "lore says exclusive" obviously doesn't know much lore! Also! Holy cow that was a lot to type on a phone. I miss my pc. In the meantime, I recommend doing the new Moogle Mail quests! They offer a bit of lore on this very topic.

 

Hope this helps! ^^

 

EDIT: Speaking of the new moogle quests, the first one has you fish up Baderon's old mate and cohort - a drunk roegadyn that is most definitely not an adventurer. But is most definitely drinking Baderon out of stock. Lore strikes again!

[Alastyrr]

 

Also! Holy cow that was a lot to type on a phone. I miss my pc.

 

 

Sheesh, you typed all of that on a phone? Kudos to you, as well as +1 rep.