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Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal.


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We don't know if they're actually Garlean or just conscripted troops, however. Are Garleans exclusively Hyur?

 

We don't know that they aren't actually Garlean. Soooo.

 

I would say that no single nation is made up entirely of a single race. Just as Ala Mhigo is not just Highlanders or Ishgard is not just Elezen. Likewise we found out that Padjal aren't just Hyur in 2.0.

 

While Garleans may be predominantly Hyur, we've no evidence to say they're only Hyur. With the current track record of other city-states, even those as far away as Doma and Thavnair, we've seen that these too support more than a single canon race.

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You stop having a point once the roe is also trained. If on a scale of 1-10 a lalafell start at 10, and after practice can channel aether to get to 150, what happens when a roe who started at 40 channels the same aether?

 

It's also established not everyone can "channel" aether, nor is it established that aether is what makes heroes heroic.

 

I've had no trouble getting invested in plenty, but I tend to limit my exposure to super saiyan potatoes, too.

Like I said, physical strength becomes irrelevant once enough aether comes into play. The Roe's advantage becomes a non-factor after a certain point. If he trains up his control over aether overrides his own physical abilities.

 

Aether is literally everything. Everything living has aether, is made up partly of aether, and interacts with aether. That's canon. When someone dies, their aether (also called "soul energy") moves into the aetherial realm. That's canon. When a Ascian is "defeated", they take an aetherial form and move into the space between worlds. That's canon. Our bodies are partly aether taken physical form (obviously, otherwise we wouldn't be able to use the aethernet or teleport at all). The difference between us and primals is that, while primals require direct sustenance in the form of aether crystals and vanish upon death, we maintain our primordial forms through the consumption of food, which, again, all contain and are partially made up of aether (and this is why your food gives you buffs - the more you know!).

 

Let's go back to the monk quest. In it, you learn that fighting on the fields of ancient battlegrounds will allow the latent aether left behind from those battles to enter you and expand your own native reserves. Hence, the opening of the seven chakras.

 

Interestingly, it's noted that too much aether can drive a person sick or mad if they are not trained to deal with it (which is pretty much exactly what happens to the other monk in the quest, at least until you beat it out of him).

 

But okay, that's just monks. What about other jobs?

 

Casters are self-explanatory. Black mages pull aether from the environment, arcanists use math (specifically geometry) to shape aether, white mages use succor (which is... really kind of poorly explained) but otherwise do the same thing as black mages on a lesser (much lesser) scale.

 

The "inner beast" of the Warrior job is a metaphor for a heightened state of aether control. The aura that surrounds the player at 5 stacks of wrath is highly reminiscent of the chi aura in DBZ (heh, sorry).

 

Bard songs are not just nice music, but are actually aetherically charged to provide benefits to those who hear them (or to do the opposite to enemies, in the case of Foe's Requiem). Naturally, this requires some expenditure on the bard's part. (I don't really know how to explain the difference between MP and TP though - someone else will have to do that.)

 

Paladins I shouldn't even need to explain - they're freakin' magic swordsmen.

 

Dragoons? Come the fuck on, their superhuman feats absolutely REQUIRE the manipulation of aether to be accomplished! You will not be able to justify their abilities with physical strength alone, that's just nonsense. Just like monks, dragoons exemplify the kinds of feats possible through skilled manipulation of one's personal aether, feats that are literally impossible for someone to pull off in the real world.

 

Now, mind you, I will not say that things on the level of super saiyans are a possibility - obviously that's incredibly silly given what we've been shown in the game and in the cinematics. However, I will say that aether is a thing, it is ubiquitous, and ignoring its existence is even more silly than someone just saying they shrug off hits because reasons. It's an incredibly big part of the lore, a huge swathe of the game world is literally made up of it, and that's something we should really accept as part and parcel of playing in Eorzea.

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Except...that the point of this thread was about physical strength. Everyone has kind of acknowledged that the strength of an individual can be supplemented. However, the point of contention was that certain folks seemed to think that a Lalafell could hit as hard as a Roegadyn without such augmentation. The belief of the OP was: no. 

 

Physical strength is what this thread is about.

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Yeah, that... is so not the sense that I got from the OP. It seemed to me like Warren was talking specifically of ANY Lalafells in physical combat... at all. Any examples at all. Anywhere in the game.

 

That doesn't sound to me like he was making a distinction between a trained Lalafell soldier and a Lalafell civilian. More like Lalafells in general, any Lalafell, in physical melee.

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A lot of speculation and some canon stuff

 

Not everyone can use an aethryte, for starters. Food buffs being canonical is... questionable, at best. While I won't doubt that casters are manipulating aether, saying that ALL martial classes do (with or without training- not an ounce of aetherial anything is talked about in the paladin storylines, and the DRG storyline is specifically draconic power amping your abilites). Assuming Warrior's Inner Beast is aether is conjecture, and citing the DBZ power aura hardly means anything (except maybe that they were inspired by the shounen template DBZ iconography).

 

Bard songs might be aether. They might also just be morale bonuses. Aether is not the force, and while it's present in everything, it isn't everything.

 

Following that, the only people who have to "accept as part and parcel" that everyone's got an inner beast chi dragon are the people playing at those ridiculous powerlevels. Some of us just play people, you know.

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Well, okay then. I have no idea how you explain things like the Derplander throwing a man several man-lengths away in the intro cinematic otherwise. It just feels to me like you're trying too hard to reconcile a hard view of reality with a game that just doesn't give a shit about being realistic.

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Well, okay then. I have no idea how you explain things like the Derplander throwing a man several man-lengths away in the intro cinematic otherwise. It just feels to me like you're trying too hard to reconcile a hard view of reality with a game that just doesn't give a shit about being realistic.

 

Or... We can acknowledge Derplander IS an actual, factual Warrior of Light and therefor is allowed to have access to huge cleaving moves.

 

For the most part, we're not them.

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Or... We can acknowledge Derplander IS an actual, factual Warrior of Light and therefor is allowed to have access to huge cleaving moves.

 

For the most part, we're not them.

WOW, we do not have a common ground here. Yeah. Yeah...

 

I'll just say that, as far as I'm concerned, every PC is, by default, a Warrior of Light (or to use a less contentious phrase, Hydaelyn's Chosen) and that I don't really see how pretending to be something lesser is a great virtue or anything of the sort.

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...anyway, this is what I'm wondering. What are some certifiable, actually-sourced lore bits that say that lalafells are as strong as a Roe? I'm not asking for aether theories or Hydaelyn bits, and I also don't care about game-mechanics ("A lala war has the same strength as a highlander one!") for obvious balance reasons. I just want to know how the average lala is able to bench press as much as a and throw a punch able to knock down anyone who isn't also a lalafell.

 

Bolded for relevance

 

There are those who believe the raw, unaugmented strength of a Lalafell is just as much as a Roegadyn's. OP-san just wants to know where that sort of thing can be certifiably sourced.

 

Perfectly valid question, and people have come up with some interesting bits -- the most interesting of which involve the miner twins from 1.0.

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Well, shard me. Don't know how I missed that.

 

At any rate, even the miner twins I wouldn't necessarily try to explain without aether. I'd break my brain in the attempt. (Or else you have to accept a cartoon physics model and... yeah, I'm pretty sure no one wants that. Right?)

I had actually wondered myself if they had probably trained themselves to use aether in order to augment their physical strength -- It'd make sense, but SE is so mum on that stuff.

 

I mean, I understand the use of aether to increase one's physical strength for sure! I play a monk who once punched a gaping hole in an inn-room wall (fffffff -- and had to pay for it afterrrr...). I've actually detailed each of Berrod's chakras to depict what sort of aether comes from where to do what...but I know that if he isn't using any of that and tries to punch that wall he's shit out of luck lol. He can't toss a Roegadyn without it either -- hell, he'd have a hell of a time tossing Warren (the two of them could barely get off the floor) when they fought. Without it...eh. A lot harder to explain. 

 

 

tl;dr: TELL US THINGS, SE. 

 

--OH. IS THAT LORE PANEL THREAD STILL OPEN ON THE OFFICIAL FORUMS?!?!

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--OH. IS THAT LORE PANEL THREAD STILL OPEN ON THE OFFICIAL FORUMS?!?!

Please tell me someone thought to ask this question. This is so important.

 

It could simply be that lala's are made of denser stuff, so it takes less mass to reach the same effective strength?

We already went over this. Then you have to explain why their chocobos are so tiny (and I don't think "they're ALSO more dense!" is really an acceptable answer).
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Also: I asked it. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/194866-Ask-Questions-for-the-Lore-Panel-at-the-Las-Vegas-Fan-Festival%21?p=2489584&viewfull=1#post2489584

 

I'll try to ask it again at FanFest, because I honestly do not believe that in-game we have an answer. But I truly believe that if lalafell weren't able to be able to hold their own and it was as if a 24 year old was hitting a 4 year old, that no martial minded commander would ever them into their armed forces.

Asked on the lore forum thread. Asked on the reddit thread where they are gathering questions to ask Yoshi-p in the reddit interview that they will get at fanfest.

 

Edit: What if in a process similar to evolution and natural selection, lalafell bodies naturally (and not consciously) somehow have converted aether into a form of... well muscle power?

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--OH. IS THAT LORE PANEL THREAD STILL OPEN ON THE OFFICIAL FORUMS?!?!

Please tell me someone thought to ask this question. This is so important.

 

It could simply be that lala's are made of denser stuff, so it takes less mass to reach the same effective strength?

We already went over this. Then you have to explain why their chocobos are so tiny (and I don't think "they're ALSO more dense!" is really an acceptable answer).

why not? it could certainly be the case.

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Or... We can acknowledge Derplander IS an actual, factual Warrior of Light and therefor is allowed to have access to huge cleaving moves.

 

For the most part, we're not them.

WOW, we do not have a common ground here. Yeah. Yeah...

 

I'll just say that, as far as I'm concerned, every PC is, by default, a Warrior of Light (or to use a less contentious phrase, Hydaelyn's Chosen) and that I don't really see how pretending to be something lesser is a great virtue or anything of the sort.

Also, Nako is not a warrior of Light, Moengeim, is not a warrior of light, Shy, is not a warrior of light.... in fact most of the people I RP with, are not warriors of light....

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Also: I asked it. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/194866-Ask-Questions-for-the-Lore-Panel-at-the-Las-Vegas-Fan-Festival%21?p=2489584&viewfull=1#post2489584

 

I'll try to ask it again at FanFest, because I honestly do not believe that in-game we have an answer. But I truly believe that if lalafell weren't able to be able to hold their own and it was as if a 24 year old was hitting a 4 year old, that no martial minded commander would ever them into their armed forces.

Asked on the lore forum thread. Asked on the reddit thread where they are gathering questions to ask Yoshi-p in the reddit interview that they will get at fanfest.

 

Edit: What if in a process similar to evolution and natural selection, lalafell bodies naturally (and not consciously) somehow have converted aether into a form of... well muscle power?

I think it would be disappointing if this were to be the case.  It would mean a less varied, less interesting, and less immersive world.  In-character it would dampen Aya's respect and admiration for Lalafel such as Kage and any Lalafel member of the Blades, the Grand Companies, etc., but no doubt it would mean that their lives were vastly easier.

 

Edit: She would still love Kage, but the full, heartening impact of Lalafel courage would be diminished :)

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Asked on the lore forum thread. Asked on the reddit thread where they are gathering questions to ask Yoshi-p in the reddit interview that they will get at fanfest.

On the 34th page... I think the odds of it showing up are astronomically low, unfortunately. :(

 

Edit: What if in a process similar to evolution and natural selection, lalafell bodies naturally (and not consciously) somehow have converted aether into a form of... well muscle power?

Hmmm. Hmmmm!

 

Hmmmmm...

 

It could simply be that lala's are made of denser stuff, so it takes less mass to reach the same effective strength?

We already went over this. Then you have to explain why their chocobos are so tiny (and I don't think "they're ALSO more dense!" is really an acceptable answer).

why not? it could certainly be the case.

Well, really, because it's basically nonsense. Their (the Lalafells') physical structure alone is completely impractical for any sort of locomotion.

 

I prefer an explanation that doesn't require a complete restructuring of my entire understanding of the game universe's physics. Aether's much simpler in that regard.

 

Edit: Think of it like this. Throwing in aether is more of an X+1. Much easier to understand. "Lalafells are more dense!", on the other hand, is like completely restructuring the very fundamentals of mathematics and science to produce a more equitable end result. It's too much work for something so, erm, little.

 

Also, Nako is not a warrior of Light, Moengeim, is not a warrior of light, Shy, is not a warrior of light.... in fact most of the people I RP with, are not warriors of light....

Yeah, that's fine, but it's also not canon.

 

We make up our own canon, of course, but the official byline is that every PC is one of Hydaelyn's Chosen. Yes, this can be kind of nonsensical given how the story is told (i.e. with your PC as the center of it all), but it is what it is.

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Edit: What if in a process similar to evolution and natural selection, lalafell bodies naturally (and not consciously) somehow have converted aether into a form of... well muscle power?

Hmmm. Hmmmm!

 

Hmmmmm...

Is that good or bad? xD I mean, at this point I'm just throwing random thoughts into the air because honestly I don't think there's really a definitive answer ever until SE says so otherwise. We can go back and forth or whatnot all day and never be satisfied except for just settling to go with our own opinions.

 

I think it would be disappointing if this were to be the case. It would mean a less varied, less interesting, and less immersive world. In-character it would dampen Aya's respect and admiration for Lalafel such as Kage and any Lalafel member of the Blades, the Grand Companies, etc., but no doubt it would mean that their lives were vastly easier.

 

Edit: She would still love Kage, but the full, heartening impact of Lalafel courage would be diminished :)

But this is why Kage always wonders what is such a big deal about what he does!

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I do not think this thread needs to be emotional, really.  I understand that there are unique challenges to role-playing Lalafel, and its sad to hear stories of them not being taken seriously when they are played as such.  But this thread is full of well-intentioned people (as is the RPC in general).  Nowhere in the origin of this thread was there anything personal or accusatory.  I think all of us are prepared to be flexible with regards to other players' RP, even when at times they might exceed what we would consider reasonable.  Even if someone's character has to imagine that there is an outside source of such strength (such as aether) I do not think that anyone here would outright refuse to acknowledge it.  I think it would be an inaccurate description of this thread to claim that anyone were trying to tell anyone else how to RP, and that is a good thing that I think we should keep in mind and appreciate!

 

Given that the initial question cannot be answered via the Lore, it can be broadly restated as, "What effect does the physical strength of Lalafel have on roleplay?"  I think we've done a good job exploring that, and like any such topic there will be disagreement, but quite a number of different opinions on that have been discussed.

 

To direct my thoughts toward Lalafel players directly, I think I would sum up this discussion as follows: when thinking about the physical strength of your character you will want to consider both the effects it has on your roleplay, and on the manner in which other players interpret it.  Players, and characters, will look differently upon a Lalafel throwing around the strength of a Highlander than they will one who is notably weaker.  Both can be sound character concepts. (Inserting personal opinion: Although one stretches credulity for the sake of eliminating potentially interesting weakness, it may still be worthwhile for the overall concept of the character, and provide its own interesting point of RP.)

 

Anyway... I just really appreciate the RPC community! :)

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Thinking about the twins and those guys getting tossed:

 

The entire story framed in 1.0 is all told through the Echo, memories. It's the past. It's entirely possible the common consensus of what happened that day got... muddled? Maybe they just got shoved out, but there was enough drink and laughter and the story got told over and over again until they were thrown, nay, they sailed out of the guild through the air like sparrows.

 

...I know the echo doesn't work that way, but... Well, no we don't. The echo works in mysterious ways!

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This thread just really makes me wish it was as simple and clear-cut as Aion's lore: everyone's immortal, everyone's an aether-wielding super-badass. One and done.

 

Instead, we've got so many obscure and unexplained items that we can have a 120+ post thread just discussing something as simple and obvious as 'how strong can a Lalafell be, really?'. It's kind of silly that things are this obscured considering how basic the question actually is.

 

I really regret not posting in the lore question thread earlier. Everything surrounding aether in general is really important to me and my character, and it would have been really, really nice to have an official word on that stuff. Hopefully someone actually asked about it and we get something, but I have a feeling we're going to be in the dark for awhile.

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Edit: What if in a process similar to evolution and natural selection, lalafell bodies naturally (and not consciously) somehow have converted aether into a form of... well muscle power?

 

Something in that regard would be pretty interesting, but does that mean they expend more to aether to compensate for their size, or that they just make better use of aether naturally? What about those like the lala in the thm guild questline that had rediculously low aether levels? would that mean he's kinda screwed in terms of combat?

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