Before things devolve...

[Coatleque]

(This may not be the right subforum, but it involved an RP plotline. Admins, please move accordingly.)

 

For those who did not hear the news yet, someone's character died over the weekend. A character who had a lot of connections through all the cities.

 

I just want to clear up any misconceptions about what happened, because this was a completely unexpected twist in the plot-line.

 

The one who died was the attacker. The one who fired was the defender. The defender was completely in the right for their actions. They were defending Grand Company property from an assault of a neighboring city state.

 

The defender in this case had no intention to kill the attacker. This person was not even aware of the death until much later. This needs to be said to clear the air before anyone jumps to conclusions. It was the attacker's own decision to make the wound be fatal AFTER they escaped, and due to complications - not FROM the wound itself.

 

I've seen a little bit of IC anger already against the defender. Before this person risks some sort of ostracization due to OOC/IC bleed through, I wanted to head these emotions off for all involved. It is not fair to them.

[Melkire]

Hear, hear.

 

(bump)

[Roen]

Whaaaaat?

 

I really hope there isn't an IC/OOC bleed through.

 

Although IC guilt/anger/blame is healthy for drama (*I* love such things haha), let's not carry that over to the player.

 

The decision to kill a character solely rests on the player of that character who died, in my opinion. No one can kill your character without your permission. Blame need not fall to anyone else.

[111]

Wat.

 

Who would get mad. It's quite possible people's characters might have faulty information on the issue, and react in various ways.

 

However if /I'm/ not even upset at the person OOCly, no one else should be lol. Nat died doing what she loved, being an idiot.

 

Oh yeah Nat died.

 

Edit: To be clear she died because she was shot, but also because no one healed her and she bled out. Of course the largest reason why she died is because I said so. Again though, this is all IC, I have no enmity to anyone involved.

[Coatleque]

What what whaaaaat!?

 

I just wanted to throw it out there before someone jumps the gun, that's all. Being angry IC is one thing, of course, and justified. Trying to force the other person in question into a specific situation when they had no idea this happened is another.

 

{edit} I.E. seeking vengeance without asking them if they are okay with it first.

[Knight Kat]

 

 

RIP Natalie character. I assume you have another new character in the works?

 

 

 

(Bump)

[Jancis]

Every character's injuries are the sole decision of their player and no one else.

 

Considering no one was aware of this outcome and the spoiler alert is everyone will survive, she died because she did not tend so a wound and did not make it aware and chose to die. That is a very large responsibility to put on another player's character without their consent or prior knowledge.

 

A twist is fun and dandy, but in this case it harms another player's character in reputation and "score" which only their own player can choose.

 

She was killed by being an idiot.

[Delilah Scythewood]

*waves* Bye bye Nat

[DoomsdayClock]

Hrmm....ic death is a slippery slope for the killer. Especially when it wasnt agreed upon first. iCly I cant see Iron ever being in the same room with the killer tho.

[Askier]

*Juggles hand grenades in honor of Natalie*

[111]

Every character's injuries are the sole decision of their player and no one else.

 

Considering no one was aware of this outcome and the spoiler alert is everyone will survive, she died because she did not tend so a wound and did not make it aware and chose to die. That is a very large responsibility to put on another player's character without their consent or prior knowledge.

 

A twist is fun and dandy, but in this case it harms another player's character in reputation and "score" which only their own player can choose.

 

She was killed by being an idiot.

 

Err... in my opinion don't use lethal force in RP if you're not prepared for the consequences. There is a reason 'No killing' is written into the grindstone rules. Natalie never makes attacks against people in situations like this, unless she's completely willing to kill the person.

 

If you don't want the risk of killing people's characters then don't shoot at them I guess.

[Hyakki]

Instead of making a public announcement on a board frequented by people who do not know, care or share the same server as the individuals involved, the matter could be handled privately within the circle of people it affects. This comes across as deliberate attention-seeking.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Hrmm....ic death is a slippery slope for the killer. Especially when it wasnt agreed upon first. iCly I cant see Iron ever being in the same room with the killer tho.

 

If he ever learns who the killer is.

[Val]

Every character's injuries are the sole decision of their player and no one else.

 

Considering no one was aware of this outcome and the spoiler alert is everyone will survive, she died because she did not tend so a wound and did not make it aware and chose to die. That is a very large responsibility to put on another player's character without their consent or prior knowledge.

 

A twist is fun and dandy, but in this case it harms another player's character in reputation and "score" which only their own player can choose.

 

She was killed by being an idiot.

 

Err... in my opinion don't use lethal force in RP if you're not prepared for the consequences. There is a reason 'No killing' is written into the grindstone rules. Natalie never makes attacks against people in situations like this, unless she's completely willing to kill the person.

 

If you don't want the risk of killing people's characters then don't shoot at them I guess.

 

I kind of agree with this. Don't shoot/stab/whatever at someone unless you're ready to take the consequences. It is what it is, and I feel like whatever happened should be embraced as a wonderful opportunity for character development and IC drama. IC actions = IC consequences, and always should.

[Aya]

Instead of making a public announcement on a board frequented by people who do not know, care or share the same server as the individuals involved, the matter could be handled privately within the circle of people it affects. This comes across as deliberate attention-seeking.

Not... at all.

 

This event touches a significant proportion of the users of this site. This is the appropriate forum.

[DoomsdayClock]

Instead of making a public announcement on a board frequented by people who do not know, care or share the same server as the individuals involved, the matter could be handled privately within the circle of people it affects. This comes across as deliberate attention-seeking.

Not... at all.

 

This event touches a significant proportion of the users of this site. This is the appropriate forum.

^ I agree. The topic is also relevant beyond this single situation.

[Delilah Scythewood]

Instead of making a public announcement on a board frequented by people who do not know, care or share the same server as the individuals involved, the matter could be handled privately within the circle of people it affects. This comes across as deliberate attention-seeking.

Not... at all.

 

This event touches a significant proportion of the users of this site. This is the appropriate forum.

I believe this is more then appropriate since it also highlights a very real thing in the RP community: IC death. Does it happen very often? Not always, no, but it does happen.

[FreelanceWizard]

For what it's worth, there's not a really good place on the RPC for this; RP Discussion is probably the best spot of the available choices, to be honest (if it were the consequences of an event, it could go on that event thread, I suppose). It can be a bit of a big deal when a character known by a lot of people dies in a public way, and so I don't necessarily see anything wrong with this post or where it is. The overarching topic ("how does one deal with character death by another PC") also has relevance to the overall community.

 

So, that said, carry on.

 

#magicAdminHat

[Aya]

On the matter of the topic at hand, I do hope that the one whose hand was responsible either is alright with what happened, or has some way to get out of it (going as far as retconning).

 

I understand both points of view on this: that a player should know that his character may kill another character in a certain situation, and that knowingly employing a lethal weapon is inherently a recognition of that possibility.  Nonetheless, because of the ramifications involved, I would certainly hope that the player actually wishes this upon his character rather than feeling it forced upon him, because that seems like it would serve no one.

 

On the flip side, everyone's characters should be free to have the IC response that they wish.  If that includes seeking vengeance, so be it, why should the meta-game be brought in to forswear what may be an entirely appropriate in-character response?

 

Obviously I don't think that there should be any OOC animosity involved, but its a pretty serious situation for the characters to have one person they know, killed by another.

[Val]

Obviously I don't think that there should be any OOC animosity involved, but its a pretty serious situation for the characters to have one person they know, killed by another.

 

And that's the incredibly wonderful thing about these opportunities. Friendships are forged and enemies are made. People get to interact on a level they never would have before. It's a very deep topic that can bring characters closer together under a banner or alienate them otherwise. This is how a lot of unexpected, server-wide and incredibly fun, spontaneous events get started. The potential is huge for those involved, and really shouldn't be shunned or swept under the rug or retconned. I suppose if that's something the player wants to somehow do, whatever. But officers/upholders of the law/whatever should know that they have a chance to kill someone when they shoot at them or try to stop him, just as soldiers know that going to war inevitably means someone is going to die by their hands.

 

He may not have meant to kill the person, but people avoid going to hospitals for wound treatment due to various reasons and die. It's not necessarily the person's fault, and some may sympathize with them while others may wish them dead for what they did. I just personally feel that the RP community as a whole has a lot of interaction that they can gain with this, and to stifle it just feels.. wrong.

[Gaspard]

Let's take a quick recap.

 

As mentioned here, Nat trespassed on some grounds, character B shot 'at' her, the shot landed.

 

Yeah, if you fire a gun at a living thing there's no retconning. The person made the conscious choice to have his character attack another character with lethal force. This is also part of roleplaying, and part of consequence, and honestly, I love it that Nat did this.

 

Also, just as a reminder towards the whole 'trespassing' Idea. The use of deadly force to protect your property is 'mostly' an american thing (mind you, mostly). In most European countries if you kill somebody it doesn't matter if it was your home, the street, or under the kitchen table; If he did not assault you with the intend to kill you you have no right to use lethal force.

 

But I guess that'd have to be filed under 'What is Eorzean Law' trivia

[111]

Aya you are probably right. For the record I have no issue with retconning it so she took a bullet from a generic maelstrom person.

 

While I do like to RP that violence is serious business, I don't want to put someones character through that if they are not willing.

 

I would rather leave it as is of course, but just giving the person an out.

[allgivenover]

...lol

 

Edit: Not sure how the rest of my post was lost. I'd have to say there's something seriously wrong if people were actually angry OOC at you killing your character off or the player behind the character that did it. Our own characters kill other members of the five races all the time in the game story. It's not a big deal.

[Gaspard]

I don't know, I understand that people shouldn't be 'forced' to do things against their personal prefference in regards to their character, but at the same time, if my character makes use of lethal force (I.e a Gun), he can't expect the world to love him or to be painted in the light of a hero. That just sounds like..shying away from negatives in your rp.

[Aysun]

...lol

Most poignant post in the thread (though it was apparently glitched). XDD

 

I think it's kind of weird to announce this OOCly like this, when it's something that happened ICly. Seems to me a better course of action would have been that the players involved directly can talk to their friends about it in private if they need to, and allow characters to find out ICly as they come across the news in RP. But to each their own!