Expansion Announced: Heavensward, releasing Spring 2015

[Havoc Snow]

I was there and I do not recall anything about each class getting two jobs like Arcanist. In fact the general tone was the opposite - it was there that Darknight was revealed to have no base class at all.

 

That sort of news would be huge for us, we would not have missed it.

Mhmm I definitely do not remember anything like this in the major events unless this was done in an off interview.

 

Though I don't remember him saying that they were getting rid of classes all together, just that Darknight would not have one.

I don't think they said there would be no new classes in general, but in the past Yoshida has stated he does not like classes and would prefer to only have Jobs. The fact that all of the new Jobs are classless seemed to suggest they were moving away from making new classes in the future and we would only see new jobs get added. There is absolutely no reason for them to add new classes if they have a way to add in new Jobs without a class attached to it.

[Kellach Woods]

Other than Arcanist, I don't think there's anything that can be dualjobbed without having a severe revision of the class.

 

That being said, if we DO have new classes I DO hope they'll be dualjobs, and if we don't, I'm okay with just jobs. It just means a longer job story and I'm all for that.

[Havoc Snow]

Other than Arcanist, I don't think there's anything that can be dualjobbed without having a severe revision of the class.

 

That being said, if we DO have new classes I DO hope they'll be dualjobs, and if we don't, I'm okay with just jobs. It just means a longer job story and I'm all for that.

Unless of course they do something like make all the new jobs require a level 30 of any class to unlock and all classless Jobs just start at lvl 30. Dual Job classes in my opinion suck horribly unless they both use the same primary stat. Take Arcanist for a example, the rule of thumb is you are supposed to dump all 30 Attribute points into your primary (of course some deviate, but that's why I call it the rule of thumb). For Arcanist you have two choices really, you can do a 50/50 split and put half in Mind and half in Int, but you're essentially gimping yourself in both SMN and SCH at this point, or you can completely cripple one Job by putting all 30 points into the primary stat for the other Job. This is simply horrible Job design, especially for a game that boasts about the ability to play and switch to any class you want. If they do more Dual Job classes in the future, they need to revamp the way attribute allocation works and make it Job specific.

[Kellach Woods]

Honestly, if you're hurting for 15 points in one main stat THAT much... keep an Althyk's Hymn on hand at all times I guess?

[Kage]

I have never heard of any SCHelp who would say they are gimped by haVing 30 INT.

[Warren Castille]

As relative ilvl increases the impact of those 30 points will feel less, but remember back at i90 those points were the equivalent to equipping two additional rings. Now, it's comparable to only "missing" one additional accessory.

 

It's not insubstantial, is my point.

[Berrod Armstrong]

*squints and reads pages*

 

Something something insatiable

[Havoc Snow]

It's not insubstantial, is my point.

This, though I view it less as losing your second ring and more as having three rings. Would you rather have a healer or damage dealer who is at their max potential, or one who is 30 points shy of one who is?

 

I'm not saying a SCH with 30 INT isn't capable of healing, but if the system wasn't what it is that wouldn't even be a problem, and that is the issue with Dual Job classes.

[Blue]

gloW53jUBjY

 

Edit: I know someone who has been RPing a miqo'te who has been trying hard to become a Dragoon, from the moment FFXIV ARR was released. He's going to die when he sees this trailer, and perhaps it might be ICly possible for his character to finally fulfill his dream and become a Dragoon! Since the main FFXIV character is supposed to be a stranger there, and yet he could become one.

 

Haha, if you're talking about Kujh'a, yes, he will definitely be my main man in RPing this expansion's content I can already see him goof and miss his first jump, only to be chased by a dragon until he manages to make it run into something that will kill it <_< .... Dragon Slayer on accident!

[Clover]

Haha, if you're talking about Kujh'a, yes, he will definitely be my main man in RPing this expansion's content I can already see him goof and miss his first jump, only to be chased by a dragon until he manages to make it run into something that will kill it <_< .... Dragon Slayer on accident!

 

Oh, your character wants to be a Dragoon as well? The expansion is definitely going to open many doors for your RP! I'm eager for it as well, even if I don't play a Dragoon.

 

The character I meant with my post is F'yue Tia, a miqo'te from our personal Spanish RP ^^

Lately, he's been RPing his days in Coerthas with other people who play instructors.

[Kellach Woods]

This, though I view it less as losing your second ring and more as having three rings. Would you rather have a healer or damage dealer who is at their max potential, or one who is 30 points shy of one who is?

 

I'm not saying a SCH with 30 INT isn't capable of healing, but if the system wasn't what it is that wouldn't even be a problem, and that is the issue with Dual Job classes.

 

I'd rather have one who's more focused on improving their play than where they spent 30 points. I don't care that my SCH got 30 points in friggin' STR. Just, y'know, DO THE JOB.

 

I always wondered why they allowed stat distribution if there was clearly a superior spec anyway. Any game that has player-chosen stat distribution will have that, and it's just another hassle and point of contention between players for them to argue and hate each other over. I mean, for PUG why wouldn't I put 30 STR? There is literally no other stat that will improve anything I have to do.

[Warren Castille]

This, though I view it less as losing your second ring and more as having three rings. Would you rather have a healer or damage dealer who is at their max potential, or one who is 30 points shy of one who is?

 

I'm not saying a SCH with 30 INT isn't capable of healing, but if the system wasn't what it is that wouldn't even be a problem, and that is the issue with Dual Job classes.

 

I'd rather have one who's more focused on improving their play than where they spent 30 points. I don't care that my SCH got 30 points in friggin' STR. Just, y'know, DO THE JOB.

 

I always wondered why they allowed stat distribution if there was clearly a superior spec anyway. Any game that has player-chosen stat distribution will have that, and it's just another hassle and point of contention between players for them to argue and hate each other over. I mean, for PUG why wouldn't I put 30 STR? There is literally no other stat that will improve anything I have to do.

 

Leftovers from 1.0. Fun fact: 1.0 also had you spend your ELEMENTAL RESISTANCES every level, too. It wasn't impossible for someone to have one resistance stacked and everything else completely useless.

 

For a lot of people, though, "improving their play" is the same thing as allocating "correctly." Is Final Coil doable in i110 gear? Sure, but that's not everyone. I've met healers able to do better at i80 than some people can at i110 with Echo, and 30 stat is 30 stat.

 

Imagine if you got into a dungeon and your tank wasn't wearing a shield. Or a body piece, in the case of a warrior. Or a caster with a wand and no off-hand. It's a slippery slope, I know, but "it's just 30 points" isn't an excuse for some people. SCH/SMN are unfairly impacted by a linear stat system that doesn't have a real purpose in the game by any means.

[Havoc Snow]

Imagine if you got into a dungeon and your tank wasn't wearing a shield. Or a body piece, in the case of a warrior. Or a caster with a wand and no off-hand. It's a slippery slope, I know, but "it's just 30 points" isn't an excuse for some people. SCH/SMN are unfairly impacted by a linear stat system that doesn't have a real purpose in the game by any means.

 

I could not have said this better myself.

[Kellach Woods]

Imagine if you got into a dungeon and your tank wasn't wearing a shield. Or a body piece, in the case of a warrior. Or a caster with a wand and no off-hand. It's a slippery slope, I know, but "it's just 30 points" isn't an excuse for some people. SCH/SMN are unfairly impacted by a linear stat system that doesn't have a real purpose in the game by any means.

 

They're also unfairly impacted by a slew of other stuff (spell speed on most of their gear when they need crit, etc.)

 

And yeah, it is one hell of a slippery slope. I'd say the Paladin not wearing a shield has a lot more problems to figure out than where he needs to figure out his stat allocation.

[Havoc Snow]

Imagine if you got into a dungeon and your tank wasn't wearing a shield. Or a body piece, in the case of a warrior. Or a caster with a wand and no off-hand. It's a slippery slope, I know, but "it's just 30 points" isn't an excuse for some people. SCH/SMN are unfairly impacted by a linear stat system that doesn't have a real purpose in the game by any means.

 

They're also unfairly impacted by a slew of other stuff (spell speed on most of their gear when they need crit, etc.)

 

And yeah, it is one hell of a slippery slope. I'd say the Paladin not wearing a shield has a lot more problems to figure out than where he needs to figure out his stat allocation.

I think you might be totally missing the point here, essentially by saying stat allocation is inconsequential, it's the same thing as saying a Paladin with a Shield is also inconsequential. Stat points are stat points and if you were to look at for example the difference between i110 on MNK and i120, you only get 42 points more in your primary stat.

 

In other words in implying that the 30 points allocated into your primary stat is inconsequential, you're implying that the upgrade from i110 to i120 is inconsequential (at least as far as primary stats go), or to put that another way; a Summoner who has 30 points in Mind but is in full i120 gear may as well still be in i110 gear when compared to a Summoner with all i120 gear and 30 points into Intelligence.

[111]

This, though I view it less as losing your second ring and more as having three rings. Would you rather have a healer or damage dealer who is at their max potential, or one who is 30 points shy of one who is?

 

I'm not saying a SCH with 30 INT isn't capable of healing, but if the system wasn't what it is that wouldn't even be a problem, and that is the issue with Dual Job classes.

 

I'd rather have one who's more focused on improving their play than where they spent 30 points. I don't care that my SCH got 30 points in friggin' STR. Just, y'know, DO THE JOB.

 

I always wondered why they allowed stat distribution if there was clearly a superior spec anyway. Any game that has player-chosen stat distribution will have that, and it's just another hassle and point of contention between players for them to argue and hate each other over. I mean, for PUG why wouldn't I put 30 STR? There is literally no other stat that will improve anything I have to do.

 

There are some interesting things you can do with stats. For example, for my Tanks I usually go almost all strength, whereas others use vitality. If you're not a lalafell as a BLM you need to dip a few points into piety for the super flare rotation. Bards with a few points in piety get heavily increased uptimes on their songs.

 

There is some opportunity for tinkering. It's not always as simple as '30 in your primary'

[Havoc Snow]

If you're not a lalafell as a BLM you need to dip a few points into piety for the super flare rotation.

 

As someone who plays a Seeker of the Sun I can actually say this isn't true, though I suppose maybe it depends on your gear? All I can say is that I can do the super flare rotation without any issues and I'm full 30 into Int.

[Zyrusticae]

There are some interesting things you can do with stats. For example, for my Tanks I usually go almost all strength, whereas others use vitality.

This is a false choice. STR is always going to be superior to VIT simply because situations where a little VIT makes or breaks an encounter are extremely rare while STR is always useful for building aggro faster and speeding up clear times. VIT accessories will give you all the VIT you will ever need.

 

(I don't even bother upgrading my VIT accessories because I don't run Coil which is literally the ONLY place where they are useful at all; the entire rest of the game benefits from killing things faster.)

[111]

There are some interesting things you can do with stats. For example, for my Tanks I usually go almost all strength, whereas others use vitality.

This is a false choice. STR is always going to be superior to VIT simply because situations where a little VIT makes or breaks an encounter are extremely rare while STR is always useful for building aggro faster and speeding up clear times. VIT accessories will give you all the VIT you will ever need.

 

(I don't even bother upgrading my VIT accessories because I don't run Coil which is literally the ONLY place where they are useful at all; the entire rest of the game benefits from killing things faster.)

 

Well I endgame. Anything other than coil you could put you tank points in piety, and it won't matter.

[Warren Castille]

Jobs changing Stat to VIT and tanks changing VIT to STR are the only exceptions to the rule, and you don't see much of the former. The latter is done once HP pools are requisite enough to survive an encounter without dying, and has a lot to do with healer ability. It still remains that SMN/SCH are the only class that is forced to pick between one or the other. It's part of the half-baked same-class-different-role that no other job has been saddled with (and looks like no other job ever will be, given the current trend of job-only).

 

It's inconsistent and SCH/SMN players are justified in feeling mishandled, because they have been.

[111]

Jobs changing Stat to VIT and tanks changing VIT to STR are the only exceptions to the rule, and you don't see much of the former. The latter is done once HP pools are requisite enough to survive an encounter without dying, and has a lot to do with healer ability. It still remains that SMN/SCH are the only class that is forced to pick between one or the other. It's part of the half-baked same-class-different-role that no other job has been saddled with (and looks like no other job ever will be, given the current trend of job-only).

 

It's inconsistent and SCH/SMN players are justified in feeling mishandled, because they have been.

 

I agree, but I don't think the answer is "Take out stat bonuses" because I like them. I think there could be more cool ways to spread stats around in the future.

[Warren Castille]

Jobs changing Stat to VIT and tanks changing VIT to STR are the only exceptions to the rule, and you don't see much of the former. The latter is done once HP pools are requisite enough to survive an encounter without dying, and has a lot to do with healer ability. It still remains that SMN/SCH are the only class that is forced to pick between one or the other. It's part of the half-baked same-class-different-role that no other job has been saddled with (and looks like no other job ever will be, given the current trend of job-only).

 

It's inconsistent and SCH/SMN players are justified in feeling mishandled, because they have been.

 

I agree, but I don't think the answer is "Take out stat bonuses" because I like them. I think there could be more cool ways to spread stats around in the future.

 

Agreed as well.

[Zyrusticae]

Well I endgame. Anything other than coil you could put you tank points in piety, and it won't matter.

Oh no, it definitely matters. I see a lot of tanks running with full VIT gear in expert dungeons and that DOES slow the run down considerably.

 

At any rate, the point that 30 VIT isn't going to make a difference even in Coil still remains. Accessories can be switched out at-will and have a much bigger effect on your overall stat budget so it only makes sense to have two sets you switch between instead of pouring points into a very situational stat "just in case".

[Aaron]

I never put a point in VIT for my tank and when fully geared I got 8k plus hp as a PLD.

 

Really just get the soldiery gear unweathered and that's all the hp you'll need up till FCoB

[Hiro]

Keep in mind the inherent differences between a STR geared Tank and a VIT Geared one.

 

As a warrior the trend has been for them to wear STR acc. once they hit the 10k HP mark while in a party and with items, healers are used to it in general.

 

Paladins have only JUST reached this plateau and are far less geared/skilled for it. Further the gear sets that are STR based for Tanks are also low in mitigation this means that a VIT PLD not only has better soaking ability they won't dip in HP nearly as fast as a STR PLD. As a newer healer I absolutely despise STR PLD's (and I mean the ones who think they're gearing like 10k HP WARs), you're the mitigation tank stop pretending like your STR and CRIT rate matter.

 

If a dungeon run is slow a PLD with STR gear vs one with VIT gear isn't going to speed anything up nor are they going to be any better or worse at holding aggro. If they're losing aggro it's likely due to something else other than VIT and STR, more likely skill/rotation/acc. 

 

FF isn't a difficult game in terms of core concepts, it favors the Tri-Force/Holy Trinity and does it well. Tank, DPS, Healer. Unfortunately it does mean you're somewhat stuck to your given role, unless you have Holy. Mmm, Holy. Even then, DPS should be more than capable of doing their job without outside assistance in their area of expertise...

 

And clearing up misinformation:

 

30 points into VIT is far more valuable to a PLD than 30 points into STR in the overall game. Top out don't try and baby subpar stats.