In response to people taking Primal fights ICly...

[Kellach Woods]

so who brought this up and why did it even need a response?

[V'aleera]

so who brought this up and why did it even need a response?

[Aysun]

Three things:

 

1. You roleplay the main scenario? Well, that's neat, but I can't and I don't think anyone else that takes the lore seriously, can take your character seriously.

 

2. Are you using a video with particle effects as proof behind your statement? Not every dot in the sky is a person, and the video is a generic representation of the few Warriors of Light that become the Blade of Light. It's not like SE has the resources to custom create a CGI version of each character with the myriad of custom armors and races they can play.

 

3. Having the Echo does not make you a Warrior of Light. In the Battle of Cartenau, that was just a bunch of people from each of the Grand Companies that came to fight the Garleans. If you're going to refer to videos as evidence, take note that in the video that places in the opening credits (that's pressing down three times on your PS3 controller by the way and then pressing the 'X' key) it'll play a video showing the battle and everyone save for the few Warriors of Light (I think they showed, hmm, one black mage, one warrior, one paladin, one white mage, and one bard.) and the rest were pretty much dressed to the nines in company gear.

1. That's your choice. I don't seek out people who RP the MSQ either, but I don't tell them they're a cancer.

 

2. All of the lights swarming around the mothercrystal are people who Hydaelyn called upon to do her work of finding those crystals. The MSQ WoL just happens to be the one who is followed and succeeds.

 

3. Correct, having the Echo is independent of being a WoL. However: that video was shown at the end of 1.0. It was our closure. The derplander and his party were substitutes for our characters. Every legacy player character from 1.0 was canonically on that battlefield and became a Warrior of Light. Not everyone chose that fate for their character, however.

[Mae]

 

 

...GetoutofmyheadIwasintheprocessofdoingthesamething...

 

Anyways.The game actually gives a lot of leeway for people to be called/touched by Hydaelyn/possessing the Echo, and still be within lore for it. All those other NPC's in the cutscene, it's ENTIRELY possible that they just passed off the 'vision' as a weird dream and go about the rest of their lives without ever realizing what they had the potential for. 

 

I RP MSQ as well (same group that Blue's in), and it's not that hard to include/justify other people/groups that are doing the same thing. "Oh, you're the other team the Scions sent out? Are you having better luck than us?", "... There was a guy in a black cloak summoning a gargoyle and causing problems out in ? Ugh, I can't believe they're trying to stir up trouble again..."

 

That being said, I don't see a problem with people fighting Primals ICly, or even talking about it. If I ICly hear it, I just justify it as a group of people being in the right place at the right time to foil yet another Beastman's attempt at summoning.

[Sin]

so who brought this up and why did it even need a response?

 

Because this is a public forum about FFXIV Roleplay, and he is stating his opinions about FFXIV roleplay.

[Dravus]

Like I said, I'm not losing any sleep over it. I just think that nobody should be immune to criticism if they're going out of their way to make their character stand out above and beyond everybody else's. It's not a personal attack. If I said 'oi mate, ur a nasty wanker with a mouldy twat' and relentlessly hounded someone for what they were doing with their character then I'd fully expect to be told to piss off. That's not what I'm doing though, nor am I pointing out anybody by name and humiliating them in public for their decisions in role-play.

[Blue]

Three things:

 

1. You roleplay the main scenario? Well, that's neat, but I can't and I don't think anyone else that takes the lore seriously, can take your character seriously.

 

2. Are you using a video with particle effects as proof behind your statement? Not every dot in the sky is a person, and the video is a generic representation of the few Warriors of Light that become the Blade of Light. It's not like SE has the resources to custom create a CGI version of each character with the myriad of custom armors and races they can play.

 

3. Having the Echo does not make you a Warrior of Light. In the Battle of Cartenau, that was just a bunch of people from each of the Grand Companies that came to fight the Garleans. If you're going to refer to videos as evidence, take note that in the video that places in the opening credits (that's pressing down three times on your PS3 controller by the way and then pressing the 'X' key) it'll play a video showing the battle and everyone save for the few Warriors of Light (I think they showed, hmm, one black mage, one warrior, one paladin, one white mage, and one bard.) and the rest were pretty much dressed to the nines in company gear.

 

That's the problem with using game representations through events and videos as evidence for your claim. They can't accurately depict -you- in that setting they depict the main protagonist and general fillers to convey certain events, of which the pictures you linked show an event that was just to express something that otherwise would be indescribable. The main hero, banded with his team of Warriors of Light, used their aether to banish the Ascian from a scion's body. Nothing more. And no, Lahabrea did not repetitively possess Thancred over and over in a queuing lobby so that everyone even to this day can claim, "I saved him. I was a Warrior or Light. I used the Blade of Light." that's a game mechanic to allow everyone to experience the same content that if we're roleplaying and making the world seem real then only one, okay at most, eight people in the entire world could have actually experienced.

 

Ok, I'll try to answer these without taking too much space, since in the end, what others think of what my RP LS does is of little to no matter to me, long as we're having fun (and, since we keep the RP in /ls channel, we don't hurt others either).

 

1. Why? You didn't really explain that statement. There is no point in the game where the Warrior of Light (or Blade of Light, whatever you call it. I'm not talking only of those from 1.0. The adventurer becomes a Warrior of Light in 2.0 too) is said to be just and only one. I don't even remember any cutscene where the NPC said "I'm sorry I have to send you there all alone, but only you can do it.". The instances would be for single player if that were the case, and I like to believe the cutscenes do not show other players (and in some instances they still do) just for the sake of hardware easiness.

 

2. Yes, EVERY "shooting star particle" in that cutscene IS an adventurer who received the call. It's what the cutscene is meant for: to show that you are not alone in the crusade to aid Hydaelyn. The crystal is not talking just to you. And those people don't have to have met the Archons either to receive the call as far as I'm concerned.

 

3. The group showed in the Battle of Cartenau cutscene are just iconic. Not only the derplander's party are the Warriors of Light. All those who played 1.0 and acknowledge its scenario have been.

 

To end it, I don't know what impression people have of us MSQ players, but I assure you that we do not do it for the sake of being special or look down at others. In fact, and I'm speaking just for my group, we have the policy to not mention MSQ-related events when we RP in /say, because we know some people will get offended, because they choose to not do something they could, while instead we did.

 

We have all our rules set up to welcome new members and if anyone comes to us and claims to have been at a certain event, we always find ways to make it plausible. For the sake of making everyone happy, changes can be made in dialogues of NPCs. From Minfilia saying "We need you to do this" to Minfilia saying "We need you guys to do this". And I'm sure you know where I'm getting at.

 

Please, I'd really like the griefing to come to an end. No one of the MSQ roleplayers I know goes to brag about the events we did IC (especially because most of them are supposed to be kept in secrecy) and we accept this strict rule on ourselves to make non-MSQ-RPers happy. And in turn, what do we get? That soon as someone slips and mentions something even so slightly MSQ-related as a primal fight, we get this kinds of threads and ugly looks, if not people walking out on us (hasn't happened to me yet, but I suppose that's because I've yet to slip and accidentally make any game-story-mention in /say, I do hear of a lot of people getting that threatment though).

 

I'm fully against those RPers who make primal fights sound easy-peasy mundane things, yes, but I really do not understand the griefing beyond that..

 

Hell, currently we're on Haukke Manor, and for the Castrum instances I had in mind to put up RP events in the calendar to find people willing to RP 8-man instances with us (since so far it's just 4 of us in my group)... But now I'm starting to wonder if doing that wouldn't just get me flamed for even suggesting it.

[Titor]

my experience to the RPC today

 

That being said I think anyone should be able to RP whatever they want as long as they find other people willing to accept it and rp with them and enjoy it.

 

It does not mean the entire community has to, and if there is a sensitive subject such as this it would be best to just tend to avoid those subjects while rping at taverns or the community at large, imo.

 

But in your fc/ls/group of friends? You can be a time-bending half-dragon primal dimension-travelling demigod and if others like it that is fine.

[Aya]

I'm more or less of the opinion that Warren expressed earlier.  People may RP what they wish, that's the nature of open-world MMO RP.  The only thing that individual players can really do is chose with whom they interact, and how they treat their own "headcanon" to use a popular phrase. 

 

I don't think much of the MSQ, and never have.  I do not find it a compelling story (although it has interesting moments), and outside of what it reveals about the lore of the world itself, I do not consider it canon.  Whether or not Ascians exists, or Hydaelen interferes in the realm of mortals, my character hasn't the slightest clue (and would shrug off as a nut anyone who insisted they -knew- otherwise).

 

Primals are summoned, and primals are killed.  If someone really worked it well and deeply into their story, or wrote an adventure arch around it that dealt reasonably and faithfully with the power of primals I might find it rather interesting!  If I encounter a couple of guys on a street-corner boasting about how they fight primals with a hand-tied-behind-their-back my character will treat that in the same fashion as any other puffed up blade trying to talk big.

 

That said, if you've got a group that enjoys RPing the MSQ as if its a "thing" that "really happened" by all means! More power to you, enjoy the RP and don't worry about the detractors.  This is a game, and its meant to be fun, and everyone's idea of fun is different.  Just don't try to tell anyone else that they have to go along with it.

[Lost River]

For my sake in Lost River's story; she is a 1.0 character (although retconned to be a female Roegadyn as they were not playable until 2.0), the only thing she did experience was she -was- there with the many other adventurers of the battle, was sent through time with the many others. Buuut, did she really become a part of the 2.0 storyline? Not really. Just that major key event is all. It still haunts her to this day, to have five years gone, five years without her daughter.

[Kinono]

If you want to RP the main scenario, go for it. No one is stopping you. It sounds like fun, and I welcome you to have fun!

 

But I'm also welcome to laugh at you when you approach me and then say "Off to kill Titan again! Wish me luck!" (this has happened to me a few times)

 

The long and short of it is that within a bubble you can have fun however you want, but opening your bubble out to the world at large means, by definition, you have to accept people's reactions at face value. As a social activity, people are welcome to exclude you if they want. No one is forcing you to play with me, and I'm not forcing myself on you.

[Lost River]

So far, the only things I've seen widely discredited and frowned on, is White Mages and Azure Dragoons.

[Tiergan]

[video=youtube]

[Tiergan]

My characters do not have Echo or Warrior of Light status. However, I also do not give a rat's ass whether other people do or don't as long as they're not hurting anyone. I just find like-minded friends and RP with them.

 

I'm not sure why people seem to have such a vested interest in finding people whose RP they disagree with and then shitting all over them. Like posting a rant about IC Primal fights in an event about fighting Primals IC.

 

It's okay to not like things, but don't be a dick about it.

[Dravus]

 

I'm not sure why people seem to have such a vested interest in finding people whose RP they disagree with and then shitting all over them. Like posting a rant about IC Primal fights in an event about fighting Primals IC.  

 

It's okay to not like things, but don't be a dick about it.

 

That's not what people are doing though. As someone posted a page or so back it's a discussion thread about a subject relevant to the site's purpose. I doubt anyone is losing any sleep over this, or feels obligated to go along with whatever bizarre concepts are conjured up.

 

It's not a case of being a 'dick' either. If people are going out of their way to make their character super special then it's pretty naturally for them to stand out and become the topic of discussion from time to time.

 

Then again, I've said this already in other threads: a lot of people seem to take even the slightest bit of criticism as a major personal attack even when it's not intended that way or can be justified. This is a community with people from all sorts of different backgrounds and styles - it's not going to be all sunshine and roses, nor should anybody feel compelled to never ever speak out against something.

[Mae]

Also, I was under the impression (and I'll respectfully stand corrected if Sounseyy shows up and says otherwise) that in 1.0 there was a group called... Path of the Twelve, and their mission was to support and deal with people who were touched by the Echo, because there was a lot coming out of the woodwork for a while and the muggles were treating/convincing them that they were crazy.

 

Adventurers (PC's) represent a small part of Erozea's population, so that there could -POSSIBLY- be a higher concentration of people who have varying degrees of special is understandable.

[V'aleera]

 

That's not what people are doing though. As someone posted a page or so back it's a discussion thread about a subject relevant to the site's purpose.

When you literally call an entire group of people who don't like praying pretend in a videogame in the same way you do "cancer", you've gone beyond the bounds of a simple discussion.

[Aysun]

Also, I was under the impression (and I'll respectfully stand corrected if Sounseyy shows up and says otherwise) that in 1.0 there was a group called... Path of the Twelve, and their mission was to support and deal with people who were touched by the Echo, because there was a lot coming out of the woodwork for a while and the muggles were treating/convincing them that they were crazy.

 

Adventurers (PC's) represent a small part of Erozea's population, so that there could -POSSIBLY- be a higher concentration of people who have varying degrees of special is understandable.

 

The Path of the Twelve was the precursor to the Scions of the Seventh Dawn. Minfilia headed it and sought out those with the Echo to be part of it. There's a lot of 'em. The difference with ARR is that they took it to a more snowflake, 1-player game level with the adventurer with the Echo becoming THE Warrior of Light with Hydaelyn's blessing and such!

[Dravus]

 

That's not what people are doing though. As someone posted a page or so back it's a discussion thread about a subject relevant to the site's purpose.

When you literally call an entire group of people who don't like praying pretend in a videogame in the same way you do "cancer", you've gone beyond the bounds of a simple discussion.

 

Well, I've certainly not done that. Where was that stated?

[Desu Nee]

Hey guys what's hap-

 

[Ghostinthecat]

 

That's not what people are doing though. As someone posted a page or so back it's a discussion thread about a subject relevant to the site's purpose.

When you literally call an entire group of people who don't like praying pretend in a videogame in the same way you do "cancer", you've gone beyond the bounds of a simple discussion.

For sake of focusing on the topic at hand, I have removed a word that was purely a personal opinion, however sharp and direct that statement was with the word included. This has been done in order to keep the discussion from getting out of hand. Thank you.

[Kage]

My question is: Have you even seen what the RP is like in order to even criticize it? What happens? How it is sorted out? The Company of Heroes weren't Warriors of Light and they defeated Titan and Leviathan. They weren't even Echo-users. They were just lucky as hell people who saw the telegraphed hits or were just skilled enough to last long enough to take them down.

 

It's one thing to experience the actual roleplay is it happens, it's another to just see "Oh people want to go fight a primal? What the hell that goes against my perception of the lore!" Instead of making a post saying they're lore-breaking why not asking them before hand "hey so how exactly have these types of things been RP'd? What's going on?"

 

There's been many people in-game who like to detract from peoples' RP saying that they were lore-breaking (Non-adventurers' presence in Quicksand, the majority of peoples' Sultansworn RP) AND they have been dead-fucking wrong about their "lore facts."

[Tiergan]

 

I'm not sure why people seem to have such a vested interest in finding people whose RP they disagree with and then shitting all over them. Like posting a rant about IC Primal fights in an event about fighting Primals IC.  

 

It's okay to not like things, but don't be a dick about it.

 

That's not what people are doing though. As someone posted a page or so back it's a discussion thread about a subject relevant to the site's purpose. I doubt anyone is losing any sleep over this, or feels obligated to go along with whatever bizarre concepts are conjured up.

 

It's not a case of being a 'dick' either. If people are going out of their way to make their character super special then it's pretty naturally for them to stand out and become the topic of discussion from time to time.

 

Then again, I've said this already in other threads: a lot of people seem to take even the slightest bit of criticism as a major personal attack even when it's not intended that way or can be justified. This is a community with people from all sorts of different backgrounds and styles - it's not going to be all sunshine and roses, nor should anybody feel compelled to never ever speak out against something.

 

The OP literally posted this entire rant in the event thread of another RPer for an IC Primal fight.

 

If you or others don't like that kind of RP, that's totally fine. However, posting that in someone's event thread is basically the definition of a 'dick move'. You don't like the event? Don't go. The event was explicitly labeled. There was no reason for the OP to even look in there much less post how much they think IC primal fights are crock. I'm not a participant of the event nor do I know the story details of it, but you don't get to hide behind "we all come from different backgrounds" with that kind of behavior.

[Faye]

I'll try to keep my response short. 

 

The primals have been summoned more than 3 times.

 

They're not the Warriors of Light, nor do they ever intend to be.

 

SE directly stated normal people can defeat primals. ...just....not as 8 individuals.

 

IIRC, I believe their method is an anti-tempering device, although I've seen people be tempered in RP before. Sure, it's minorly lore-breaking, but not the first time. I've seen other people used deaspected crystals as an anti-tempering method as well, assuming the crystals would soak up the energy or something.

 

--

 

More importantly, calm down. Nobody is asking you to RP it. You don't have to accept it. If someone wants to RP with a lore-acceptable workaround for fighting a primal, let them. It's not going to cause another Calamity.

 

I'm going to admit I didn't read all of the initial post, but I think I got enough from the title and skimming through. But Franz pretty much summed up everything I was thinking meanwhile.

 

For my personal testament, my company has ICly fought Leviathan. It was a forced summon of Leviathan in his weakest state. It was a group of eight (in the actual dungeon) with reinforcements from the rest of the company nearby who fought off the Sahagin. We're a company of adventurers, mind you. The company ICly worked for weeks to create a one-use item to help stave off Tempering, and the leader of the expedition had the Echo, regardless, even if no others did. While no one died or received serious permanent damage (save for someone losing an eye and the functionality of his arm, whoops, but that's only partially related), everyone was left nearly dead, and though they slayed Leviathan, it was hardly a victory considering they were too weakened to.... stop the things that occurred afterward on the shore.

 

We're not the Warriors of Light. We don't all have the Echo or are magically unable to be Tempered. It was not an easy fight for anyone, and they company essentially only fought a Primal in its weakest and least fledged form. This is not something we typically bring up in RP outside our FC--you probably won't find anyone ranting about this heroic tale in the Quicksand. It was a plot solely for our company--no one else on the server need be involved, no one the company, even, who was not interested had to participate. If you don't want to take this as canon, that's fine, because it matters little in anything but our own FC plot line.

 

I don't see the harm in this, really. It's not like someone just killed the Emperor of Garlemald. Primals aren't a one-time thing. They keep coming back, and not always at the same degree of strength. The Company of Heroes may be the strongest and most celebrated heroes of Eorzea, but otherwise they're pretty normal dude and they still also prove you don't have to be "THE main character" to take on the Primals. Warriors of Light and those with the Echo can understandably seem a little Sue-ish, but ultimately, canonically there are PLENTY of them so there's nothing inherently wrong with playing as one of those many people.

[Dravus]

My question is: Have you even seen what the RP is like in order to even criticize it? What happens? How it is sorted out? The Company of Heroes weren't Warriors of Light and they defeated Titan and Leviathan. They weren't even Echo-users. They were just lucky as hell people who saw the telegraphed hits or were just skilled enough to last long enough to take them down.

 

It's one thing to experience the actual roleplay is it happens, it's another to just see "Oh people want to go fight a primal? What the hell that goes against my perception of the lore!"

 

There's been many people in-game who like to detract from peoples' RP saying that they were lore-breaking (Non-adventurers' presence in Quicksand, the majority of peoples' Sultansworn RP) AND they have been dead-fucking wrong about their "lore facts."

 

To be fair, you don't need to be a chef in order to be able to criticise a meal. It's also possible to make an educated guess about someone's role-play based on their character concept. If someone is claiming to be powerful enough or lucky enough to fight a major named antagonist and survive then it's pretty clear that they're going to draw controversy.

 

I could claim that Graeham is the long lost son of Livia sas Junius (he's not) and I'd fully expect people to criticise me for it or assume the worst. Heck, even if I pulled it off flawlessly I'd still expect to be criticised because it'd be a very bold move and I'd be opening myself up for that sort of response as a result.

 

...and as has already been pointed out earlier, if people do Primal fights as a 'what if' scenario or in private then that's fine. It's their bubble, after all. As soon as that ends up in a public environment, though? It's open for feedback and critique.

 

If it is done well? Great! I can get on board with it, but the burden of proof is on the ones taking the bold leap and just as I don't get to tell anybody what they can and cannot role-play nobody really gets to tell anybody else what they can and cannot comment on. It works both ways, not just one.