Opinion question: Is Mary Sue Sexist?

[gfdhg]

I've been seeing this essay go around on all of my other RP talks and around my tumblr, so I was wondering - how does the community see the term? Do you think it's sexist, no, or is there another opinion you have?

 

Here's the essay. Personally, I do not see the term as sexist, but I plan to write my own response later. What do you guys think?

[Val]

After reading that article, I can't help but to roll my eyes and think that people try way too hard to find things to be offended by.

[Ciel]

The male equivalent is Gary Stu.

[Warren Castille]

The male equivalent is Gary Stu.

 

Annnnd we're done here.

 

Edit: Oh look. Someone's tumblr post.

 

Double edit: I didn't click the article, but I hope it cites the original cause for the term: Star Trek fanfiction starring ensign Mary Sue, the new girl on the bridge that everyone adored, who saved everyone and was all around the best, most wonderful character Trek has ever seen.

 

Before you ask, yes, I am experiencing discomfort in my derriere.

[Flashhelix]

my writing isn't shit, YOU'RE a sexist

 

#justtumblrthings

[allgivenover]

Wow, I feel like reading that killed a few brain cells.

 

Silliness aside, I don't want to discredit the importance of fighting sexism or the need for feminism, but that was probably the farthest I've ever seen an SJW stretch to reach for fresh, uncharted expanses of righteous indignation.

 

Also, as others have and will state again; Gary Stu.

---

Double edit: I didn't click the article, but I hope it cites the original cause for the term: Star Trek fanfiction starring ensign Mary Sue, the new girl on the bridge that everyone adored, who saved everyone and was all around the best, most wonderful character Trek has ever seen.

 

Before you ask, yes, I am experiencing discomfort in my derriere.

 

Of course it doesn't. That would have required five minutes of research and critical thinking skills.

 

Edit: My mistake, it does. I was just so floored by the stupid that I skimmed over that part.

[Verad]

Sure, why not.

[Ardent Ghost]

After reading that article, I can't help but to roll my eyes and think that people try way too hard to find things to be offended by.

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[Crisiet]

The male equivalent is Gary Stu.

 

^

[Ette]

I definitely think it used to be. The word originated sometime in the 70's and it's 2015 now. We've come pretty damn far since then when it comes to a lot social issues. It's also not something I run into a lot in RP as people will generally explain why a character is awful. That and a writer, try as they might, can force anyone else's characters to love and adore their own.

 

Of course this leads to a completely different brand of bad. Do we have a name for that yet?

[industrythirteen]

http://thezoe-trope.blogspot.com/2011/08/you-can-stuff-your-mary-sue-where-sun.html To me, this is a much better posting on the topic. 

 

Mary Sue is a lot like the term 'slut,' in my opinion. It's a label that means so many things to so many different people, and really has no meaning besides "I don't like this person, because x, y, z.' And that x, y, z will differ from person to person. Frankly, there is no pleasing everybody, and I think roleplayers spend far too much time worrying about whether their character is or isn't a sue. It's a lot of wasted energy. 

 

Stop worrying about it. What someone thinks of you or your character is none of your business. Just do you, and don't cause any harm to others.

[TheLastCandle]

Somehow, I knew before even clicking the link that it would be a tumblr post.

 

I have a tumblr

 

I don't think the term is sexist, but I do think it's overused and misapplied so often that I've stopped giving it any thought.

[Zyrusticae]

The male equivalent is Gary Stu.

 

Annnnd we're done here.

lol yup

 

Shit like this only muddles the conversation and drives attention away from real issues. The amount of mental gymnastics required to even think this is a possibility boggles my mind, and I'm a super-hardcore feminist. Come the fuck on! :evil:

[Chill Man]

The male equivalent is Gary Stu.

 

This. I personally don't like throwing either term around, however. Let people have their fun RPing whatever. I don't have to take part in it if I do not agree with it, or if they do not want me involved.

[Kellach Woods]

oh man I'd sure like to see them try to pass this over at The Mary Sue.

[Brynhilde]

Vaguely, yes. The term does describe a real phenomenon; we've all seen Mary Sues (possibly RP'd one in our younger years. Cough.), and as already pointed out, there is a male equivalent: Marty or Gary Stu. They are awful.

 

But as the Tumblr post states, that's Batman. And no-one bats an eyelid pun intended. In fact, he's a hugely beloved cultural icon. So I do think that accusations of Sue-ism are levelled at female characters more often, because female creations and interests are more frequently derided, attacked and seen as lesser.

 

For example, look at the vitriol levelled at the recent woman-centric media of Twilight and 50 Shades. It's not enough for these things to just simply be shit (they are), but hating on them becomes a kind of public performance. It's a bit like that.

[Dat Oni]

This subject is being given more thought than it deserves, in my opinion.

[allgivenover]

But as the Tumblr post states, that's Batman.

 

No, Batman is a canon sue if anything, and that's debatable.

 

Mary Sue and Gary Stu doesn't apply to canon characters. They're a term specifically for original fanfiction characters. In fact the term isn't even supposed to apply to roleplaying game characters unless you're RPing an original character alongside canon characters.

[Brynhilde]

But as the Tumblr post states, that's Batman.

 

No, Batman is a canon sue if anything, and that's debatable.

 

Mary Sue and Gary Stu doesn't apply to canon characters. They're a term specifically for original fanfiction characters. In fact the term isn't even supposed to apply to roleplaying game characters unless you're RPing an original character alongside canon characters.

 

I don't personally see any importance in the distinction, but that may because I view the Sue problem as one of narrative value and not one of Sues being awful because they're wish fulfilment.

[Madda]

 

Was relevant.

[Dravus]

No, it isn't. 

 

I feel as though a lot of people don't actually understand what sexism actually is and so they try desperately to be pseudo-intellectuals and think far too deeply on things that most normal people wouldn't bat an eyelid at.

 

The term 'Gary Stu' has been floating around for years if people want a male counterpart to use to prevent breaking down over the awful, awful 'patriarchy of society' or whatever else a very vocal portion of society are screaming about these days.

 

I really can't stress enough how irritated I am that even fictional characters are being subjected to the increasingly bizarre 'sexism' debate. It's a pretty slippery slope and serves only to stifle creativity.

[Seriphyn]

After reading that article, I can't help but to roll my eyes and think that people try way too hard to find things to be offended by.

 

/thread

[Mikh'a]

After reading that article, I can't help but to roll my eyes and think that people try way too hard to find things to be offended by.

 

Gonna beat the dead horse here and be way too late to the party but this. Like, so much this. I didn't read the full article because I felt like.... well.. Spiderman did say it best. But someone is looking for something in this article that I hope the internet doesn't give them.

[Kismet]

This subject is being given more thought than it deserves, in my opinion.

 

Quoted for truth and emphasis.

[Branson Thorne]

After reading that article, I can't help but to roll my eyes and think that people try way too hard to find things to be offended by.

 

I came here to say exactly this. Seldom do i even join into these conversations because it reminds me how whiny and sensitive society as a whole, actully is.