Language Preference for Cutscenes

[Val]

I, uh.

 

I don't watch the cutscenes.

[V'aleera]

The localization team did not have any creative effort in writing these characters.

This contradicts what Fern has explicitly stated on the matter.

 

So unless he was just plain lying, the localization teams do in fact have input on the creation of the material and not just the interpretation of it.

[Flickering Ember]

The localization team did not have any creative effort in writing these characters.

This contradicts what Fern has explicitly stated on the matter.

 

So unless he was just plain lying, the localization teams do in fact have input on the creation of the material and not just the interpretation of it.

 

I don't really check the main forums. I only check the RPC and the my FC enjin and linkshell sites.

 

I'm rather skeptical about how much input the English side has on the game. But it won't change how I feel about my preferred language, anyway. I'm used to the Japanese ones by now.

[Caspar]

Although I'm a notorious weeb with okay Japanese comprehension, the real reason why I select JP is that with any foreign-produced media, I generally play or watch it in its original language, or as close to it as I can get. I feel generally the original voice cast is closer to what the production intended for me to experience. Ideally I would be able to listen to it without subtitles but my skill isn't that advanced yet. I do the same for all foreign media.

 

I don't really put much stock in the idea that it was designed around the multilingual release. I highly doubt the writing accounted for the intricacies of every foreign localization.

[Mae]

I keep my languages on English, though it tends to not really matter for me. If there's subtitles/text dialogue, my brain seems to auto-focus on that over any audio. Add to it that I read fast, I tend to speed through CS's.

 

Beyond that though, I read, speak, and understand next to nothing in Japanese, and my conversational German and French skills are limited to "The American has dog biscuits in his pocket" and "I am a pineapple", respectfully.

[Ha'uruh Nunh]

Japanese.  I speak some, plus as it's the original, I feel the voice actors were chosen with the most precision and correct inflections, etc.

[V'aleera]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/219094-Various-english-titles..?p=2804270#post2804270

 

This is one of the posts written to give insight into how the FFXIV localization team functions and the roles it performs, in case anyone cared to learn more about that.

[Enla]

I've taste tested both Japanese and English tracks, and honestly I'm torn as to which I like better. I both love and despise voices on either end of the spectrum, and at the end of the day I only really went with English for two major reasons. First, it's my native tongue so I'm not trying to constantly read the subtitles while putting the words together in my head to see if anything is wrong with the translation. Secondly... I honestly prefer most of the Scions in English. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the voices are necessarily bad in Japanese nor do I really hate any of them with -one- exception. However some of the voices just... Didn't fit for me. Papalymo just did not sound right in Japanese for me given his personality, for example. The only one I dislike regardless of localization however, is Minfillia's voice choices. However that is probably a side affect of my hatred of the character and nothing more.

[Marisa]

Japanese.  I speak some, plus as it's the original, I feel the voice actors were chosen with the most precision and correct inflections, etc.

Now, I'll admit I'm only basing this off a panel I attended with Sonny Strait and his Japanese counterpart (they both did Maes Hughes in FMA, Sonny also did Krillin in DBZ and like a million other dub characters) but I have it on good authority that Japanese voice acting is just as much of a clusterfuck as it is in America. You have a handful of good voice actors who dominate the industry because they can do a wide range of voices really well, and everyone else is somewhere between decent and terrible. This is true for both Japan and America. And I honestly can't see the Japanese actors for XIV being any higher quality than the American ones, because they're being paid roughly the same.  

 

Now, one big argument brought up alot in anime with 'subs vs dubs', is that the subs are better, not because the actors are better, but because they can be directly coached by the writer to sound how he originally intended. But... here's the secret. That never happens. That's not how it works on either end. Even in Japan, the voice actors come in to the studio, they sit alone in a sound booth with a script of their lines, and they read them off as quickly as possible. A sound director will sometimes be there to coach them, but that's true for the dub actors too. The writer, however, is in no way involved in this process. He's left them some notes in their script, but the Americans got those same notes. 

 

In fact, here's the kicker with anime: The Americans get to watch the show before they dub it, because it's already been made. The Japanese teams are usually trying to record voices for an episode that hasn't even been animated yet. Though, to be fair, this doesn't apply to XIV. In XIV, neither the Japanese nor the Americans get to see any of these cutscenes before they record them.  

 

Now, if you genuinely prefer the Japanese version, I have nothing against that. I promise I'm not trying to insult you in any way. I just want to be sure there are no illusions that the Japanese team somehow produces a superior product.

[Faye]

I, uh.

 

I don't watch the cutscenes.

 

Get out. GET OUT.

[Caspar]

Just because they're paid the same doesn't mean their performance is of equal quality. Not that I watch the JP dub because I think the quality is better; that's subjective. The JP industry has a more established voice-acting base, whereas in the US, things have improved a great deal, but it's still seen as a lesser form of acting than live action, given that most are still failed live action or theater actors. This also doesn't mean they're poor quality actors, but an industry with lesser prestige is less likely to attract genuinely skilled performers.

 

I'm skeptical that the sound directors don't ever have a role in selecting specific VA and deliberating on which recorded session to use in the final cut. I've seen nothing to indicate this was the case. Maybe some studios are like that, but no matter how you slice it, the JP one is always working closer with the original creator. Even if they don't have him involved, they're a more seasoned production company that has been selecting VA and directing adaptations of scripts for decades. It just follows that usually their casting choice and direction are more likely to be superior to a second-hand production.

 

Tons of people fail in both the US and JP industry and only a select few get all the roles. That's true of any performance based industry. That doesn't make their quality of performance equitable. If anything, the studios in JP industry have noticed there is a surplus of people who want to become seiyuu compared to those who wish to become writers or animators, and have complained about it in various interviews. (Whether that's true or not or they're trying to deflect attention from their terrible hours and payment of their own employees is debatable.)

 

But again it's sort of subjective. If 'more accurate to the original concept' is the superior performance, then I'd say it's inarguable that the sub is superior in all cases. If 'you enjoy it more' is the superior performance, that's subjective. In any case, I picked up sub personally not because I felt it was superior, but because I feel it invalidates the work of the original intended cast and the creator to not watch the work as close to how it was intended as possible.

[allgivenover]

I have it on good authority that Japanese voice acting is just as much of a clusterfuck as it is in America. You have a handful of good voice actors who dominate the industry because they can do a wide range of voices really well, and everyone else is somewhere between decent and terrible.

 

This. The thing is western anime fans can't really hear the bad in the Japanese voice acting because most of them can't even identify well known seiyuu - let alone tell different voice actors apart - by voice alone or understand even 10% of what's being said, but believe me it's just as eye rolling and in many cases outright worse than the english.

 

If you can't understand it you are pretty much incapable of judging if it's actually good or not. It just seems better because you can't tell.

[Caspar]

I have it on good authority that Japanese voice acting is just as much of a clusterfuck as it is in America. You have a handful of good voice actors who dominate the industry because they can do a wide range of voices really well, and everyone else is somewhere between decent and terrible.

 

This. The thing is western anime fans can't really hear the bad in the Japanese voice acting because most of them can't even identify well known seiyuu - let alone tell different voice actors apart - by voice alone or understand even 10% of what's being said, but believe me it's just as eye rolling and in many cases outright worse than the english.

 

If you can't understand it you are pretty much incapable of judging if it's actually good or not. It just seems better because you can't tell.

It seems to me most of the people who picked sub in this thread understand at least a little Japanese or are used to picking subs.

 

In my experience, those people who don't know anything about the JP industry or know any seiyuu by name usually pick dubs, and not the other way around.

 

You should consider also that the standards for what is considered normal voice acting for the industry are different. The JP audience observed that they preferred Bosch to Fukuyama for instance, because they felt his performance wasn't as 'exhausting.' Probably even less of them know how to speak English than there are English anime viewers who understand JP. There are plenty of people who feel similarly with JP performance vs English performance, and I think that's a perfectly valid reason to like it more. If it is "eyerolling" or overdramatic as you say, perhaps that is overacting to some and actually putting effort into your readings for others.

[allgivenover]

It seems to me most of the people who picked sub in this thread understand at least a little Japanese or are used to picking subs.

 

Knowing a smattering of nouns/verbs is not the same as being able to hear the difference between 帰る and 変える or being able to tell if someone is over acting vs phoning the performance in.

[kitakaze]

As someone still learning the language,  I prefer using JP audio almost exclusively as a sort of study tool. I think that the EN voices have improved, and so have the JP, but it's a good chance to work on my listening comprehension. The subs help with FF related words and as a spot check. 

 

That being said, I honestly believe it should be as simple as "I listen to X because I like it."

[K'nahli]

However. Differences in dialogue, however much or little is one thing on its own, and should be expected. Changing a scene, and the complete presentation of a character is another. There is literally no excuse for this. It's not something you can argue either by saying "well, characters like this tend not to exist in Western stuff!" or "it would be hard to localize!" because those are both retarded arguments. Observe.

 

Haurchefant in English:

 

 

Haurchefant in Japanese:

 

 

 

 

No idea what this is like in French or German, though I imagine it's closer to English. I feel bad for the people who watched in English, because they completely missed the presentation of what his character is clearly meant to be. Oh well.

 

This is precisely what I was talking about. I don't care if the english is the "original" despite my leniency to doubt that much; all it does is reverse my argument in the other direction while maintaining the same point. I will use japanese at the end of the day because whether or not it is simply, terrible voice acting(and I cannot tell the difference), I still find it far more aesthetically pleasing and that could be found equally true to any other language out there for all I know.

 

However, it all comes back to me wanting the dialogue, ALL dialogue in EVERY language to be as similar as possible so that I am not seeing and hearing a totally different persona from what was intended.

 

 

And thank you for that example with Haurchefan, Edda. It illuminated the point I was trying to make much better than the simple and random ones I had presented.

The real reason why I select JP is that with any foreign-produced media, I generally play or watch it in its original language, or as close to it as I can get. I feel generally the original voice cast is closer to what the production intended for me to experience. Ideally I would be able to listen to it without subtitles but my skill isn't that advanced yet. I do the same for all foreign media.

 

Absolutely 100% this. Just because I find japanese to be a pleasing language to listen to, it doesn't mean that I would ever consider watching a western production with japanese dubs even if the lip-synching was, somehow, miraculously perfect in spite of the fact.

 

 

[Edda talks about Haurchefant here]

 

Holy crap, I remember getting very confused in the recent MSQ updates when I had on Japanese voices and Haurchefant was being his eccentric self. It was so different from what I knew of him that I thought he was being mind-controlled or had his personality altered. Did a little searching around and turns out... he was always like that in the Japanese version and they just cut that out for the English one (and also apparently his attraction to the player character as well?). It's a pretty jarring difference and I'm disappointed they did it for the sake of apparently keeping Coerthas' story more serious. I'd hope they won't keep doing it but I'm sure Heavensward will be much the same.

 

This completely surprised me too. The english subtitles suggested that he was very level-headed and considerate in the initial MSQ but then we get that voiced cutscene and his character completely blows that notion out of the water. PLUS, the english dialogue with that episode seemingly caught up with his personality and reflected his more eccentric self this time around.

 

I mean what? ;;   I don't want your personal adaptions of an intended character please, whether or not that adaption be western or eastern.

 

 

That being said, I honestly believe it should be as simple as "I listen to X because I like it."

 

I wish it were, haha. Though once the original personalities or sentences get replaced arbitrarily then I get a bit annoyed. A friend of mine who understands a fair amount of japanese once pointed out to me that Papalymo once said something insulting(in his usual way) to Yda during a cutscene but the english dialogue reflected nothing of the sort. I can't remember what it was exactly, perhaps he was just adding to her point instead while completely taking out the snide side of it(don't quote me on that, but I recall it being quite a bit different).

[Cliodhna Eoghan]

after watching half the main story quest in english...i realized i was able to swap it over to japanese. so i did, no real big reason except i just like how it sounds better. most games i play that have that audio option; i pick japanese.

[Zyrusticae]

That being said, I honestly believe it should be as simple as "I listen to X because I like it."

Yup.

 

When it comes to voice acting I honestly feel this is what it comes down to a lot of the time. The fact that people still cite "bad acting" as a reason to switch from the EN voices tells me that a lot of people don't have a single clue what "bad acting" actually entails, and are just reacting on their gut intuition and trying to explain it after the fact. But to be fair, this goes for a lot of criticism in general - people, especially in the United States, are just not educated enough to articulate their criticism in a useful and constructive fashion. Half the time they're complaining about things using language that is completely off the mark from what they are actually trying to get fixed, or they are attempting to cure symptoms and not the causes, being too short-sighted to understand what really needs to be done (which is one of the most difficult things about games development - people will frequently complain about things without actually being able to articulate how it could get better and why).

 

Of course, saying "I just don't like it", while accurate, can also make you look dumb or at least inarticulate, so I can understand why folks are reluctant to use it. Criticizing things inaccurately just to avoid that, however, strikes me as even worse in many regards. At least in the former case you're being honest.

 

Anyway, to answer the thread premise, yes, I prefer the English voices, largely because it just feels the most right to me. I will admit the whole thing with Haurchefaunt gives me pause, but that sort of thing just happens in localization sometimes, and most of the time the localization is simply better for changes made, not worse. I would be curious to hear the story of why Haurchefaunt ended up that way and then getting back to the JP version the next patch. I'm sure deadlines were a part of the reason for that. I have not yet heard a single instance of "bad acting" (and I mean things like someone obviously reading lines from a sheet, or failing to deliver properly, and so on), and am still puzzled every time someone trots out that same line.

[Edvyn]

 

When it comes to voice acting I honestly feel this is what it comes down to a lot of the time. The fact that people still cite "bad acting" as a reason to switch from the EN voices tells me that a lot of people don't have a single clue what "bad acting" actually entails, and are just reacting on their gut intuition and trying to explain it after the fact.

 

~weird paragraph about how this all relates to america and the man and games dev or something~

Of course, saying "I just don't like it", while accurate, can also make you look dumb or at least inarticulate, so I can understand why folks are reluctant to use it. Criticizing things inaccurately just to avoid that, however, strikes me as even worse in many regards. At least in the former case you're being honest.

 

I have not yet heard a single instance of "bad acting" (and I mean things like someone obviously reading lines from a sheet, or failing to deliver properly, and so on), and am still puzzled every time someone trots out that same line.

bad voice acting = not sounding natural, or not sounding the way they're trying to sound

 

i doubt anyone's so afraid of sounding dumb or inarticulate or whatever that they'd simply make things up to disguise their peeve with voice acting in a video game (outside the usual minority that need to be acknowledged as internet mensans by complete strangers they will never meet)

 

in the case of the ffxiv english voice acting, this is actually pretty noticeable if you listen to the accents on some of the characters (minfilia and cid spring to mind). to me, they sound fake as hell. i had this gripe with some of the sylvari voice acting in GW2 as well - it sounds like americans trying to sound like brits. the line delivery/overall tone of voice also feels significantly off, too - which is to say it doesn't follow how people actually talk.

 

 

Mod Note - Edited and Merged back into thread at user's request.

[Flashhelix]

I was fine w/ the ENG voices in most other FF games, then I played XIV and Kan-E-Senna's actress sound like she was trying to read lines off a sheet of paper immediately after getting a muay thai beatdown like ryan gosling in Only God Forgives, and Moenbryda's p. subpar too so I've stuck to JP voices

[Zyrusticae]

I was fine w/ the ENG voices in most other FF games, then I played XIV and Kan-E-Senna's actress sound like she was trying to read lines off a sheet of paper immediately after getting a muay thai beatdown like ryan gosling in Only God Forgives, and Moenbryda's p. subpar too so I've stuck to JP voices

See, I always felt like Kan-E-Senna was meant to sound very deliberate when she's speaking, particularly because she's trying to fake her physical age (remember, all Padjal are stuck in the early teens) so she has to try that much harder to be respected.

 

Interesting how different two people's interpretations can be when it comes to this sort of thing.

 

 

 

Mod Note - Edited and Merged back into thread.

[Melkire]

[Moderator Hardhat]

 

Let's behave. No personal attacks. Stay on topic.

 

Red_Leader.jpg goes here.

 

[/Moderator Hardhat]

[Branson Thorne]

I dont know what yall are talking about, but I watch my cutscenes in "freedom loving Murican" yehaww!

[Caspar]

It seems to me most of the people who picked sub in this thread understand at least a little Japanese or are used to picking subs.

 

Knowing a smattering of nouns/verbs is not the same as being able to hear the difference between 帰る and 変える or being able to tell if someone is over acting vs phoning the performance in.

I see what you're getting at, and indeed I think a lot of people prefer the sub for that reason. But in reality, doesn't what you say just supply a more convincing reason for them to pick the sub? If the acting is of deficient quality and unconvincing, it would be better to pick the audio track in which it is least obvious. So in actuality, picking the track you can't understand makes much more sense. At the very least, if the track is overacted, you won't know. I don't see anything innately wrong with that.

 

Also context is pretty important. I guess it's cool you know some kanji, but you can probably distinguish between frog and return depending on the sentence it's used in in most situations. I'd like to give the viewer the benefit of the doubt and not assume they're an idiot. I think that in itself is the difference between our perspectives on this; you're assuming they don't know and I'm assuming they do, and in both cases it's probably inaccurate lol.

 

It's true that there are plenty of people who just hear noise when the JP dub is used, and are ignorant of who acts well and who lacks skill. Likewise I think there are a lot of people who can more or less tell when someone's being robotic or unconvincing regardless of language, because sometimes emotional inflection is universal. Sure, I don't expect the average viewer to be able to understand why someone like say, Omigawa Chiaki is generally laughed at when she tries to perform compared to the average VA, but I do assume that people can notice a difference in how voice direction is carried out. I think in either case assuming the worst of the listener, or assuming they have greater acumen than they really do, is probably flawed, but frankly, I'd rather do it my way.

 

Here's a great example of why the idea that voice direction is done like a shotgun and is no more micromanaged in the dub than in the sub is false: Yoshiyuki Tomino, when directing series, generally harassed and forced retakes on a lot of his VA to gain a more natural, "human" tone. But since he's rather unstable himself, many people feel the voice acting in Gundam series he directs is clipped and awkward. This might be only one case, but it is a great example of why the original voicework is intrinsically connected to the original intentions of the creator. A lot of viewers who aren't aware of this still can recognize the difference in "Tominospeak" when compared to more conventionally acted shows.

 

And again, like I mentioned in my last post, the standards differ based on region. I'd much rather have an overacted than underacted vocal track, though neither applies to the JP dub of FFXIV in my opinion. Sawashiro is pretty understated as usual as well as Ikeda. I mean, I did laugh a lot hearing Char as Lahabrea, but that's more due to my familiarity with his voice than anything else.

 

That brings up another point I hadn't considered earlier: Because voice acting is a heavily established industry in Japan, casting choice also plays upon typecasting and stereotypes that don't exist in our industry. Specific, familiar voices being used against type or according to type can really help enrich the experience. The same thing happens with Western live action work all the time. It's sort of like how when you see Wakamoto Norio in the credits list, it's likely he will be a villain. Plenty of series have derived some comedic value off the fact that viewers expect this.

[Kaniko Niko]

All this talk about the staff tailoring the voice actors to the very specific nuances of the characters...

 

And none notice Rie Tanaka. She's the Japanese version of Tara Strong. Or Atsuko Tanaka. Not to tread on any of their stellar abilities, but to assume someone like Rie Tanaka was chosen to voice someone with as many lines as Kan-E-Senna for anything but her star power is a little on the naive side.

 

As someone who has spent time in Japan, has friends move back and forth between there and being an extensive weeb anime connoisseur since the 1990s, I can tell you with full authority that literally everything that isn't farming in Japan is fanservice-related. (No. Not that kind of fanservice—but outright pandering to a base.) Most of these 'seiyuu' are really just pop idols, screen actors and the like—retired or not—doing filler work. It's not like they work for a voice studio.

 

I mean, by the numbers... The West has a much, much larger pool of voice talent to draw from than Japan and that, statistically, is going to bump up the number of voices that not all of you are going to agree with. Personally, I found most of the voices outside of Merlywb, Hydaelyn, Lahabrea, Gaius, Livia and Alphinaud to be very wooden and/or over-acted. Then again, Hydaelyn, Lahabrea, Gaius and Alphinaud are voiced by Mary Elizabeth McGlynn, Kyle Hebert, Richard Epcar and Sam Riegal, respectively. It honestly felt like some of the lesser-known voice talent tried to go with the obviously-acted, 'epic', 'anime-voice' angle.