[SPOILERS not hidden in SPOILERS] 2.55 Before the Fall Part 2

[Dravus]

How long would you all speculate that the archbishop(or whatever) has been under their influence? And in what ways, if you have any personal theories?

 

For some reason, I want to think that the Archbishop is probably some Elder Wyrm in disguise. That would be rich.

 

RPG's usually have a habit of making religious leaders into big baddies so I'm more than willing to entertain that particular theory as well.

 

I have a feeling that there's more to the war between Ishgard and the Dravanians than meets the eye. Lady Iceheart seemed intent to 'break the cycle' and to make the Ishgardians pay for 'the crimes of their fathers'.

 

I suspect we haven't seen the last of her...and we still don't know how the Au Ra fit into everything either.

[Chris Ganale]

The only problem is that she's a bloody idiot if she honestly believes "the sins of the fathers, pass down to the son, and that's how the cycle is broken." No, you obtuse twit, that's how you propagate the cycle of hatred.

[Kellach Woods]

Haven't you noticed that everyone who touches the MSQ becomes a blithering idiot incapable of thinking two steps ahead unless they're an evil Lalafell or an Ascian (and even then, that's just merely informed).

[Chris Ganale]

Must be why I keep my characters out of it.

[Aaron]

Thancred used to be a hero like you, then he took an arrow to the knee.

 

YES I WENT THERE

[K'nahli]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wonderful.

[Clover]

 

Wilred... ;_;

I'm suddenly in the mood for remaking the Ala Mhigan character I deleted a while ago due to the lack of slots. She was supposed to be a part of his crew, so it'd be interesting to see her failing trying to avenge him.

[Uninstalldotexe]

How long would you all speculate that the archbishop(or whatever) has been under their influence? And in what ways, if you have any personal theories?

 

For some reason, I want to think that the Archbishop is probably some Elder Wyrm in disguise. That would be rich.

 

RPG's usually have a habit of making religious leaders into big baddies so I'm more than willing to entertain that particular theory as well.

 

I have a feeling that there's more to the war between Ishgard and the Dravanians than meets the eye. Lady Iceheart seemed intent to 'break the cycle' and to make the Ishgardians pay for 'the crimes of their fathers'.

 

I suspect we haven't seen the last of her...and we still don't know how the Au Ra fit into everything either.

 

Indeed.  The more I think about it the more it makes sense. Ascians long had their fingers in the Ishgardian pie and have influenced them for who knows how long.  If I were a Elder Wyrm, and  we all know how dragons have this superiority complex, would take up a seat as the Archbishop.  This lets Nidhogg or another Wyrm to 1) troll Ishgard and influence them directly by holding the supreme ruling position 2) Recuperate after losing an eye and amass power while having the best perspective to take advantage of when Ishgard is at her weakest 3) summon the horde to break the wards trapping the undercover Wyrm from prison because I really think that's what Mr. Archi Bishop did when he waved his staff and it gleamed. Vishap answered the call of his Master to try and release him using brute force. Plus, it kind of fulfills many other tropes.

 

I'm not to sure how Iceheart plays into all of this but she is definitely a close-minded tool.

[Berrod Armstrong]

The only problem is that she's a bloody idiot if she honestly believes "the sins of the fathers, pass down to the son, and that's how the cycle is broken." No, you obtuse twit, that's how you propagate the cycle of hatred.

Unless you kill the sons! Then no more cycle.

 

However, she's employing a similar sentiment that spoke about in T. Likely she's just being used, just like everyone else.

[Chris Ganale]

"An eye for an eye, and the whole world is blind."

 

While it's utterly hypocritical of me to even take the 'peaceful' side of this discussion, there is no way a Kill 'Em All mentality will end the cycle of hatred. Unless you kill all of them and anyone who has ever befriended them.

 

Case in point: R'tahz. He's from Limsa for gods' sake, has no stake in the Dragonsong War whatsoever, and even is less than sympathetic to Ishgard because they put a death mark on him. However, his mentor is Ishgardian, and my original plan had been for him to die at the Steps of Faith, thereby sparking a roaring rampage of revenge from Tahz. I have to rework a few things because Steps of Faith was a proper vIctory, but the point still stands.

[Kage]

In this case, the dragons believe themselves to be the righteous party who have had done wrongs to them. For people seeking -vengeance- they don't give a fuck if it will lead to more bloodshed. They're the ones who have been wronged. The Ishgardians need to pay!111 Many people don't look beyond that. That's the sad thing about life in general.

 

Reminds me of The CW show 'The 100'. Nuclear war left earth inhabitable. People went into the space stations to survive. But the station is now running out of oxygen 97 years later so all the people who are deemed expendable are sent crashing to the ground to see if the people can survive on earth. (Under the age of 18, minor crimes. Those over 18 are 'floated' aka killed for like... any type of crime.)

 

So when the kids show up, they find out that no, lots of other people did survive the nuclear war on earth. Deemed the 'grounders'. The people who 'fell out of the sky' are deemed a danger to the people who lived on the ground. Flares that the kids sent out to show that they were alive and the earth was inhabitable burned down innocent grounder villages. An accident, but it still killed people. Then the kids are attacked by like 300 people and the kids use up the unused rocket fuel to burn up all the people attacking them. In an attempt to search for one of the missing kids, one of them (likely experiencing PTSD at this point) slaughters innocents in a grounder village. To the grounders, 'blood must have blood' But they came to an understanding, while one side killed maybe 20, the other side killed 320+. Both were able to agree then that the one who gunned down innocent villagers would take the punishment of '18 deaths' (essentially a gruesome torture leading to death. stabs, slices, etc to make up for each person's death). He doesn't die that way because one of the leaders kill him herself, to spare him that pain. Others wanted the other leader dead, but she knew if the other leader died it would be outright war. Thousands of grounders would decimate the people they had left from the Ark. Other grounders wanted to kill the kid leader of the people from the Ark, she killed 300 of them by burning them all alive after all.

 

It took two.

 

... I don't think even one side of the Ishgardian/Dravanian war will consider peace.

 

[Dravus]

Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.

 

- Confucius

 

 

It's a sentiment that I feel applies to quite a lot of Eorzean's conflicts be it the situation in Ishgard, the fight against the encroaching Garlean Empire, the recent situation in Ul'dah or the issue with the Beast Tribes and their Primals.

[Chris Ganale]

If the dravanians feel that they're wholly innocent in a war that has spanned a millennium, then fuck them on principle. It takes two to tango.

 

Disclaimer: I again reiterate that I'm not at all soft on Ishgard, in fact fuck them for being zealot bastards. The fuck them is equal if they feel themselves to be the innocent party.

 

There is only one innocent party in the whole affair: the civilians who would be slaughtered if the city were overrun.

 

As far as the other conflicts, my stance is very simple: You fuck with me or mine, I dedicate my whole being to ending you.

[Kage]

So someone's been posting about Lolorito possible having a dagger to revive a dead person (*cough*mythoughts:Nanamo*cough*)

 

Niellefresne stole an important dagger from him in 1.0, the Heartstrike dagger. It was a dagger that was said to have the ability to revive the dead or atleast let one commune with them, Niellefresne was stabbed in the back by a STILL unknown assassin before Mumuapo (the 1.0 THM guild leader who was relieved of duty by the Sultana after the Calamity) could return from the guild with certain items for the ritual they were to perform.

 

Fast forward a bit to 2.0 and Lolorito had gotten rid of most of the whipper snappers from the original 1.0 story (Nielle, Greinfarr, F'lhaminn) and had formed up the Alacran to do more of his shady works. Early in the story line the Alacran had stole the Sultana's crown (funny thing was it was made to be seen as an Ascian plan) and were to exchange it for a powder/item that was said to be the same substance that the Sil'dih had used to start their zombie army (which lore wise the Ul'dahns actually barricaded the Sil'dihns inside their city and the zombies ran amuck).

 

edit:

 

So... any takers on who else is on the Syndicate? Lolorito may not have control but now he doesn't have to deal with Telediji and I assume being in prison makes Raubahn ineligible.

[MadWater]

Oh... my... gods...

 

Pipin is so pretty.

[Kage]

Koporo was rocking that do as a lala long before I got to see Pipin's face. And then he cut his hair.

 

So... some people speculated Y'shtola was using holy

 

 

/Holy/

 

Ummmm. Wouldn't that really be out of character for her?

[Kellach Woods]

To me it didn't look much like Holy but what do I know.

[Ryanti]

Koporo was rocking that do as a lala long before I got to see Pipin's face. And then he cut his hair.

 

So... some people speculated Y'shtola was using holy

 

 

/Holy/

 

Ummmm. Wouldn't that really be out of character for her?

 

Maybe.

 

But people do crazy things when it's life or death.

 

I'm more likely to think she did do something she hated doing, because she apologized beforehand.

[Chris Ganale]

She was apologizing to her sister for (supposedly) sacrificing herself.

[UntrueCrystal]

Koporo was rocking that do as a lala long before I got to see Pipin's face. And then he cut his hair.

 

So... some people speculated Y'shtola  was using holy

 

 

/Holy/

 

Ummmm. Wouldn't that really be out of character for her?

Considering she's a conjurer I wouldn't say it's out of character for someone thinking they were about to die to channel a huge burst of white magic similar to holy.

[Berrod Armstrong]

Koporo was rocking that do as a lala long before I got to see Pipin's face. And then he cut his hair.

 

So... some people speculated Y'shtola  was using holy

 

 

/Holy/

 

Ummmm. Wouldn't that really be out of character for her?

Considering she's a conjurer I wouldn't say it's out of character for someone thinking they were about to die to channel a huge burst of white magic similar to holy.

I've actually been hoping that that spell and the red slicing thing Ilberd did were previews of spell animations from 3.0 >.>

[Oscare]

While I don't think it was specifically Holy, as there's nothing to prove that it was, I do think it was something akin to it. Y'shtola is implied to be a very powerful conjurer (she did block an attack from Ilberd) so I agree that it's not out of character for her to be able to do that.

 

Also.

 

WILRED-SENPAI. QQ

[Kismet]

My personal speculation is that Y'shtola POSSIBLY performed what could either be a new WHM LB (based purely on the fact that Yda performed Final Heaven) OR a new lvl 60 skill. But, as I said, just speculation.

[Kage]

The thing is, holy is supposed to be -bad- to really use isn't it? Destructive to Eorzea etc?

 

Isn't she the type to rather avoid that, especially when it's sorta selfish to do so (saving just man lives and it's against a threat such as say Bahamut)? She pretty much told Merlwyb she should fuck off cause Limsa brought the primals upon themselves.

[Berrod Armstrong]

The thing is, holy is supposed to be -bad- to really use isn't it? Destructive to Eorzea etc?

 

Isn't she the type to rather avoid that, especially when it's sorta selfish to do so (saving just man lives and it's against a threat such as say Bahamut)? She pretty much told Merlwyb she should fuck off cause Limsa brought the primals upon themselves.

IF it was holy -- if-- then helping someone carry on the torch of the Dawn is a good enough reason to pull it out, I think.