Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately?

[Dravus]

People are free to disagree, of course, but it's something that I believe there's a lot of merit to.

 

I've had this debate with you five times over, so I'm not keen on repeating my points, but it reads a lot like high school when you use the term 'popular people' to substitute for people who get roleplay. I've been here for not even two months, but I put in the effort to find myself an RP circle.

 

And I'm sorry, but it grates on me when I feel like you are lumping me in with your perceived group of:

 

 

I think you're exaggerating, deliberately missing my point and trying to ridicule me rather than address the actual post. I wasn't even referring to you and it should be obvious why i can't name actual names (naming and shaming rules) to reinforce my point.

 

I'm not the sort of guy who holds his tongue if I see an issue. I'm not being mean, I'm not harassing anybody and I'm not breaching the site rules.

 

Though if you want to deny that role-players flock to those perceived as 'popular' then you're free to do that. I'm more concerned with the fact that new/lesser known role-players are made to feel unwelcome so I personally have no issue making a few role-players who are hardly starved for role-play uncomfortable if I perceive them to be frigid and/or not open to listening to contrary opinions.

 

Nobody on this site is in a position to claim that they're all knowing. What one person has experienced can be completely different to what somebody else has experienced during their time role-playing in FFXIV.

[Flashhelix]

In the last three roleplay communities I've been a part of, I've seen this exact topic come up. Somebody citing a supposed "toxic" atmosphere and lamenting the downfall of the once-great roleplayist gathering spot, but I don't buy it. This isn't some Toxic Avenger shit, it's not like one day everybody on the RPC took a road trip together and got hit by sludge that turned them all into jaded assholes. More and more disagreements are happening and more and more times the solution is to complain about MUH TOXICITY or MUH TROLLING or something like that. I can see multiple threads recently where people are getting offended over nothing. It feels like people just want to be outraged at this point.

[Domri Blackblade]

People are free to disagree, of course, but it's something that I believe there's a lot of merit to.

 

I've had this debate with you five times over, so I'm not keen on repeating my points, but it reads a lot like high school when you use the term 'popular people' to substitute for people who get roleplay. I've been here for not even two months, but I put in the effort to find myself an RP circle.

 

And I'm sorry, but it grates on me when I feel like you are lumping me in with your perceived group of:

 

 

I think you're exaggerating, deliberately missing my point and trying to ridicule me rather than address the actual post. I wasn't even referring to you and it should be obvious why i can't name actual names (naming and shaming rules) to reinforce my point.

 

I'm not the sort of guy who holds his tongue if I see an issue. I'm not being mean, I'm not harassing anybody and I'm not breaching the site rules.

 

No, Graeham. What me and others have been trying to point out to you for weeks now is when you talk like that you leave it open for people to worry that you are actually talking about them. Now, since you can't just go name and shame, maybe it would be more pertinent to just not talk like that? Or find a less salty way to go about it?

 

The way you come off is people who found RP are just 'so popular la la la la la' and the people who can't find any can't do so because the plastics don't try to help outside of saying 'try harder.'

[Askier]

Yeah...I'll be honest, used to use this website a ton.  Once used it to organize massive world rp events.  Was kinda fun.  Then I disappeared for awhile cause RL stuff.  Then I came back but am mostly just a lurker these days due to RL.

 

And that's the thing. RL.  We all have one.  We all got enough RL shit going on that we don't need more online.  I'm honestly amazed how angry people get on this site over things that don't matter.  Seriously, Realm Rebron is a bunch of code made of 0's and 1's. Tomorrow a solar flare could happen, fry the power grid, and keep us from playing Realm Reborn ever again.  It's all imaginary.

 

People gonna disagree on lore stuff.  Hells, the world is a mess because it's human nature to disagree.  But we all climbed aboard the rp train, together.  We are all -those- guys and gals other people who play mmos joke about.  "The weird rpers."

 

And that's the point. We are all on the same -imaginary- train and if you want to attack or snipe or be aggressive to another group or person, only thing that is gonna happen is you will derail the train and screw everyone, including yourself, in the long run.

 

No one role-plays with themselves.  That's called writing.  Why intentionally alienate someone who might have rped with you?

 

Just tossing that out there for the two cents it's worth.

[Dravus]

People are free to disagree, of course, but it's something that I believe there's a lot of merit to.

 

I've had this debate with you five times over, so I'm not keen on repeating my points, but it reads a lot like high school when you use the term 'popular people' to substitute for people who get roleplay. I've been here for not even two months, but I put in the effort to find myself an RP circle.

 

And I'm sorry, but it grates on me when I feel like you are lumping me in with your perceived group of:

 

 

I think you're exaggerating, deliberately missing my point and trying to ridicule me rather than address the actual post. I wasn't even referring to you and it should be obvious why i can't name actual names (naming and shaming rules) to reinforce my point.

 

I'm not the sort of guy who holds his tongue if I see an issue. I'm not being mean, I'm not harassing anybody and I'm not breaching the site rules.

 

No, Graeham. What me and others have been trying to point out to you for weeks now is when you talk like that you leave it open for people to worry that you are actually talking about them. Now, since you can't just go name and shame, maybe it would be more pertinent to just not talk like that? Or find a less salty way to go about it?

 

The way you come off is people who found RP are just 'so popular la la la la la' and the people who can't find any can't do so because the plastics don't try to help outside of saying 'try harder.'

 

If people have an issue with the way in which I post then they're more than welcome to contact me over a PM or in-game. I've posted this way for years - and back on the server I role-played on back in WoW (Argent Dawn EU) it was rarely an issue.

 

Which ties into the idea of 'culture shock' that I've put forward in the past. I'm British, I don't mince my words and I'm not trying to be mean.

 

My concern is that those who aren't starved for role-play aren't really in the position to claim that other role-players just need to 'try harder' when it comes to breaking into the community. I don't see how that is proving to be such a controversial point and to me it seems like misdirection.

 

I'm not suggesting that people are obligated to interact with other role-players. I'm simply suggesting that there's merit to the theory that many role-players come off as arrogant, out of touch, or dismissive when it comes to addressing legitimate concerns. It may not even be intentional as I've pointed out many times.

[FreelanceWizard]

And on a moderation note: please stay on the topic at hand, not about people's perception of cliques and how they might impact RP. This particular line of discussion that's going on should really be handled via PM.

[Domri Blackblade]

Don't worry. I'm over this nonsense at this point. It's beyond ridiculous.

 

Tomorrow's wednesday.

 

[Chris Ganale]

I would like to add something if I may. Bare with me as this observation comes from my long years of gaming and online rp. Im not surevhow this will be taken so again there is no negativity to this, it is an observation.

 

From long ago in EQ and NWK there was this free flow of ideas. "Hey wanna rp this?" or "Want to try that?" This behaviour was everywhere. Once my group in EQ wanted to rp we were a small independent kingdom. Our leader would became an ic king and we his knights. It was suggested and so we talked it over calmly and decided... nay not such a good idea. No one lost their minds, accused him (the leader) of god moding. We all talked over the good and the bad of it and agreed to try something else. I think we could talk it out as back then we were not so worried about others in control. We understood it was just a game and if someone did try to run rough shot over us, the player/community would simply ignore them. The understanding that the only person with power over you was you, allowed for more civil exploration of ideas. That fear of "don't tell me what to do" I think is the primary issue and very much a generational thing. Remember that its not just us who have played since the 90s, or 2000's, or even gamers from the last 5 years. Its all of us, multiple generations with differing values, and points of view. That may be where a lot of the misunderstandings come from.

 

I've gone back and forth between the trying to appease everyone and doing what I want. Mostly stick to doing what I want now and while the stress of being 100% lore-compliant and non-powered enough to suit peoples' tastes is gone, it does leave me spending my entire days getting my roulettes out of the way on two characters and then camping out in front of another FC's house waiting to see if the one person outside my own group that I RP with will even come on that day, let alone have the free time to do anything.

[Arrelaine]

This thread topic and the responses in it are pretty much why I avoid almost all topic unless it's in the events, art or the occasional making connections topic. I lurk mostly, and I'll see a new thread about RP or lore discussion and think 'oh hey, this seems like an interesting topic maybe I should po- oh wait, nevermind it's already devolved into another topic or people are just arguing'.

 

AND THEN MAGICALLY THE SAME THING HAPPENS TO THIS THREAD. *waves her wand* Ta daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

[Dravus]

Like I said, I'm more than willing to try and come to some sort of compromise Domri but if you're not willing to try and seek a resolution then I'd kindly ask for you to simply toss me on ignore.

Which brings me to my next point: a lot of people are claiming in this thread that 'communication is key' but I think it's pretty clear that when issues do arise there isn't a whole lot of communicating going on.

 

It seems to me as though 99% of issues on the RPC could easily be resolved by people agreeing to disagree with differing opinions or making a genuine attempt to reach out and discuss an issue before it is blown out of proportion.

 

At the end of the day it's just role-play. I'm certainly not losing any sleep over it and I would hope others are in the same position.

 

I don't expect everybody to get along but I do think it's fair to expect the community to be a bit more open - both in terms of there being less outright ridicule/arguments going on and in terms of more people reaching out to connect with people outside of their comfort zone.

[C'kayah Polaali]

I don't view it as particularly productive to give bad posts a place to go where they can still be quoted, linked, etc., nor do I think a place where people can challenge any moderation decision openly is valuable. It's a hard enough job to moderate without worrying about whether the bad actor in question is going to turn right back around and demand satisfaction publicly; it's also no fun to be the target of a personal attack and have to see it staring back at you in perpetuity.

 

If there's a concern regarding bias on the part of the mod team or me, I would be happy to discuss it privately via PM. I should hope that, during my tenure as admin, I've demonstrated that I try to treat everyone equally (and I like to think I'm far enough removed from most of the RP on the server that no one would think I was actually in a clique that was represented on the RPC), but naturally, perception is reality in forum management.

 

For what it's worth, if there is a sufficient perception that I have some bias for or against some posters based on a perceived clique, I would certainly be willing to step down as administrator in favor of someone the community finds less biased.

 

I imagine this is in response to my post, so I'd like to address these points here.

 

I know a lot of the folks who created Backstage, and I was fairly heavily involved in both communities. The interesting thing that happened with chatsubo/OOC is that there very distinctly was not this sort of discussion. People didn't decide "Wow, chatsubo/OOC sucks, I'm going to make a stink about it". They simply cut down on their participation in the site. They still played the game. They still communicated through other means (the Eve version of linkshells, etc). When Backstage was created, a huge chunk of those people just switched to it.

 

The key point here is that the vast majority of these people never talked to the mods on chatsubo/OOC about this. They simply saw behavior that they were uncomfortable with for long enough, and stopped participating.

 

I know it a perfectly rational world, you would expect everyone who started to pull away from your community to talk to you, first. At least to tell you that they're doing it, and tell you why. But historically that's not what happened with chatsubo/OOC. The chatsubo/OOC mods that I knew were uniformly surprised by what happened, because they weren't seeing the signs leading up to it. People were participating in the forums, and continuing to do so despite the shifting culture of it. It was a classic example of a punctuated equilibrium, though: as time went on, more and more people were pulling away from the forum, and only participating in a very limited way in order to eek out some value from it. But when something else (Backstage) popped up to specifically address their concerns, they left en masse.

 

I'm not suggesting you step down, nor am I suggesting someone creates a FF version of Backstage. What I am suggesting is that we learn from the examples of chatsubo/OOC and Backstage, and apply those lessons towards fixing this cultural shift with an aim towards improving the RPC.

[Flashhelix]

I'd like to believe that the RPC doesn't need thought-police to function halfway properly.

[Tiergan]

I actually talked about this roughly 4 days ago with several other folks and on Tumblr. I was hit with a LOT of messages from people who said they either had stopped going to the RPC because of the recent toxicity or they are too afraid to join it for the same reason.

 

It's honestly feels like lately people can't have a disagreement in opinion with each other about what literally amounts to fantasy pretend fun times without tossing in snide insults, subtle jabs, or sweeping generalizations about how shitty [x] group of RPers who do something you don't like are.

 

The thing I always used to love about the RPC in the past was that it was an incredibly positive community. Barring things like a WHM Lore Discussion (which always seemed to explode for whatever reason) - I was always pleasantly surprised whenever a group of people disagreed on the lore or how to RP something and the discussion generally went something like "I personally don't think [x] is adheres to the lore, but if you do - that's okay. You'll be able to find RP because plenty of other people who feel the way you do. I may not RP like you do, but you should be able to RP it if you want to, because RP is supposed to be fun."

 

This was literally the first ever MMO RP community I have ever been in that had that kind of open, positive attitude towards things and I was really appreciative of that. People seemed a lot more willing to acknowledge that different RPers enjoy different things, have different interpretations of the lore, and will RP with different groups of people and that ALL OF THESE THINGS are 100% legit and okay.

 

There's been a very noticeable shift in recent months that's very "My Way Or Fuck You, You're Doing It Wrong.", where people will hammer down on others and belittle them for thinking one way or another about lore, characters, etc - even if it's between two groups of RPers who would realistically NEVER RP with one another because their interpretations of the lore are too different. (Which again - is 100% okay.)

 

At the end of the day - this is just a hobby and there is zero reason why we should be laying down the hate so thick.

 

Also, in regards to the trolls - I think what people are referencing is the a massive wave of trolls the RPC got hit with at one point. Not people who suddenly turned into trolls or "this person has a different opinion than I do, so I'm going to bitch and moan about there being trolls" - but legit trolls with freshly rolled up accounts who showed up to the site out of nowhere and were flagrantly just baiting people into arguments left and right for shits and giggles.

 

A lot of those people seem to have gotten ban-hammered (or just got bored and stopped showing up) and the mods are cracking down on things more tightly now, so it seems like it's just dying down.

 

It's mostly the hostility that's a problem.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Few things to note while I'm currently caught up on the thread. (Yes, I read every single reply).

 

I'm actually amazed the thread has managed to get this far. No, that's not pessimism, it's happiness. I posted the thread fully-intent on waiting for it to go up in flames, and possibly get a warning for having started a "drama thread", as another community would likely call it. (They know who they are, I have no reason to point it out).

 

Freelance, if I might call out some people in the thread by name, for the simplicity of not generating some gigantic quote mess. I'll go alphabetically just because.

 

Domri, I love Mean Girls gifs. You've probably seen me post my fair share. The thread is trying to be serious though, and the lovely potentially rage-inducing picture may do just that.

 

Graeham, I'm unsure why your words come off as faulting people who get lots of RP as somehow being in the wrong. Is that not of their own efforts? As a member of a certain linkshell, I'll be reaching out for some RP planning. But it's exactly that. Planning. I've found my weekends are almost always already taken by real-life commitments, which makes RPing much harder in general, for in-game events. The same could be said for what I'd call "more difficult to RP" concepts, such as yours. By creation, RP can be limited on the type of character, whether race, nationality or personality. I don't think running into each other at a bar would be a viable option, if you know what I mean. (And if I somehow fail to reach out, I'm not ignoring you. Chances are, I either got busy at work, home or it's past the time I should be sleeping. I'm guilty of poor scheduling).

 

Gwannes, this is now a boo-hoo "OMG WHY SO MUCH DRAMA" thread. It's rather a question of what has somehow changed in the community that previously used to be much more peaceful. I believe a few others have already touched upon this. The RPC has seen a LOT more activity and has gotten a LOT more users. And with bigger crowds, comes more diverse opinions. If I wanted to go to a "toxic" community, I'd find some other game to play. There are ever-so-many options. I do believe that people should be able to police themselves, and if they find themselves unable, mods being more strict is a valid response. In an optimal setting, we shouldn't need mods unless a bot somehow makes it through, or for basic "can you help me do ____ " questions.

 

Kellach, I would recommend reavaluating some of your words on occasion. I'm unsure of your intent, but many can come off quite harsh and bitter, which does affect whether people may want to reach out. A positive attitude (or at least the lack of a negative one) can do wonders. It's not the fault of a well-established RPer to not reach out. Nobody is stopping you from reaching out yourself (whether in game or here). Not everything character will be a perfect fit. But calling it a failed attempt before trying just seems overly pessimistic.

 

--

 

Unrelated to what probably -will- get me in trouble, I've found myself asking many of the same questions as others. "How can I RP more?" "Am I doing something wrong?" "Hi Random New Person! Would you like to try?" RP is a minimum of a two-way communication. It shouldn't be so scary to reach out to people. If it somehow seems like Franz might be a good fit for a story, I like working with people and collaborating. But like possibly many others, reaching out to people I don't know is scary. It's an issue I work on. So let's help each other.

[Flashhelix]

Gwannes, this is now a boo-hoo "OMG WHY SO MUCH DRAMA" thread.

 

I KNEW IT

[FreelanceWizard]

I'm not suggesting you step down, nor am I suggesting someone creates a FF version of Backstage. What I am suggesting is that we learn from the examples of chatsubo/OOC and Backstage, and apply those lessons towards fixing this cultural shift with an aim towards improving the RPC.

 

I think we're in complete agreement that there needs to be some changes made to the moderation approach to tighten things up -- such as what I detailed in my initial post. So, change will be coming, and fairly quickly. It's a fair point that something needs to be done to prevent a loss of member activity from having let our moderation get too lax and too "off the cuff," so to speak. Certainly I don't think anyone wants to see the community die a slow death when we had a chance to take action.

[Zhavi]

More than once I've seen people express a concern that it is very difficult to break into specific role-playing circles or that they're met with a fairly frosty welcome. Each and every time this then leads to 'popular' role-players rushing to offer their advice and subtly imply that those expressing their concerns simply need to try harder.

 

Really? We're starting with this again?

 

Christ.

 

People are free to disagree, of course, but it's something that I believe there's a lot of merit to. Of course, if you don't believe it's a problem then that's fine - but since multiple people have expressed the same concerns I think it's safe to give the theory more than a dismissive 'Christ'.

 

This is. . .frustrating to me.

 

Sometimes, with this whole thing, it seems like the biggest problem is that people are too willing to echo each other without coming up with solutions.

 

I don't really know how I'm regarded. I know that some people have complimented me, and I know that when I look for it, I can find rp. I talk to exactly one person outside of the game in its entirety (not counting Jager, since I've known him for years and brought him into the game), and if you count people who reach out to me in game to talk, that makes two.

 

I'm not in a FC.

 

The few LS I'm in are dead (the rest I've been removed from because of my inactivity streak, which is totally and completely understandable).

 

Yet I am sure that I could find rp easily if I chose. It's not because I'm in with anyone. It's because I seek others out. It's not because it is not difficult for me -- there are some who can probably remember before August 2014 when I stalked newbies posting and would ask them to rp with me. Most of them never tried to contact me. The few I actually reached out to in pms still did not always work, and this is with me giving them my times available, finding them in game, and trying to rp with them.

 

The problems that I see are that too often people are willing to point out the problem, talk about it for words and words and words, but they aren't willing to alter their behavior beyond anything superficial. You can't find rp? What are the specific problems? What do you even need help with? Most of the time I find myself giving generic advice because without an active discussion, that's all I can do.

 

When people get snippy, what do you do? When I'm involved, I try to diffuse it. To me, when people are snippy or frustrated or getting negative, it's often because they feel unheard, like they don't matter, or like they have utterly no control in how things are going. It's like the LoL community. People I talk to who play tell me about how toxic their games can get. I had those same games. You know what? After I made a conscious effort to be kinder and more responsive to people who were feeding, making horrendous remarks, or threatening to afk based on whatever thing I could generally get them to stop with that behavior and participate in a more positive way (no, not perfect most of the time, but still much better). Hell, the best one I can remember was when someone was taking their sweet time to bash the hell out of me. I sweetly told them that I wasn't an expert and would greatly appreciate any advice they had -- and guess what? I got oodles of advice throughout the game, most of which I didn't even follow, but just that little effort of giving that person a sense of control over the situation and letting him know that yes, dude, I hear you and let's try to compromise helped. I remember that one the most clearly because it was the first time I tried that tactic. Most of the time after that, it worked.

 

It's the same thing here. It's the same thing everywhere. When you get negative, people respond in kind. You can't expect someone else to break the cycle, or someone else to take responsibility. You have to take responsibility to try and address problems you see, even if it is a simple "man, you know, I hear what you're saying but I really wish you could make that point a little nicer.

 

Snark vs snark is only going to make more snark. It doesn't make you look cooler. Being willing to swallow your 'cool factor' and just say something nice? Yeah, that diffuses things way better than just about anything else. Be tactful. Be kind. Be polite. Rely on your logic and patience to make your point (not everyone understands things the same way, and sometimes people misunderstand things -- I know I have!), not how well you can cut someone off at the knees.

 

If you find yourself unable to take a step back and cool down, or the other person is having a hard time cooling down: stop.

 

That's it.

 

That's really it.

 

Focusing on how bad things are without offering up solutions tends, in my experience, to exacerbate the problem. I'm not saying this thread is a bad idea, because I believe talking about things is how you move forward. BUT, just giving up isn't going to work either. You don't get anything unless you accept some risk and try.

 

And putting people on a pedestal, in my opinion, is a huge god damn part of the problem. Everyone here is just like you. It's just some of them post frequently. Yes, there are some beautiful writers here, but don't look up to them! Learn from the bits of writing that you like! Don't treat them like they are some other class of writer from you!

 

IN SUMMATION.

 

=> Be specific when you have a problem. If possible, self-identify things you need help with. People can only help if you let them know what works and what doesn't work.

 

=> You can't do shit without opening yourself up to some risk and potential hurt, and being willing to try different ways of doing things that may be uncomfortable. (do note: social anxiety is a real problem, and shyness can be crippling: but even still you have to be willing to speak up, even if it's through a trusted friend. It sucks, but jack all will change unless you make some sort of move)

 

=> Be kind to negative people. Chances are they need it, and chances are that'll fix things. If it doesn't, just let it go. Perpetuating is not going to help.

 

=> No one is better than anyone else, so don't treat anyone like they are.

 

=> IF YOU CATCH YOURSELF BEING A NEGATIVE NEGATRON, APOLOGIZE IN PMs TO THE PEOPLE YOU HAVE BEEN A BUTT TO, OR AT THE VERY LEAST WITHDRAW FROM THE DISCUSSION.

 

=> Nothing changes without people making effort to be active of making change.

[Delilah Scythewood]

One thing to keep in mind in response to those who have brought up the 'those who RP a lot and/or get a lot of RP': as someone who has multiple RP partners, RPs, and plots going on myself, sometimes it is hard as hell to incorporate new people. As much as they may want to be a part of things, one thing that people need to bear in mind is that with only so many hours in a day many of us get to be online in between our RL obligations that there are those who have enough on their plate RP wise. Doesn't make it bad. Doesn't say anything negative about those individuals when it comes to the newer RPers. It's just that they've worked hard to get their RP connections, circles, and groups going and that it's okay sometimes to be unable to humor someone because it would mean lacking attention in other areas. There are so many people here I would love to RP with on a more consistent basis! Many of them are in this thread But it's something that works against many of us: our actual time to do things online.

 

Now, on topic.

 

Might help first off to stop calling people out by saying things like 'Oh, I know you're talking about me!' and putting someone on the spot. Kind of just emphasizes what the OP and others have already mentioned in the thread. If you want to do that? Take it to PMs where it's less of a spectacle. If more people did this little thing alone? I could see a big step in the right direction for the RPC as a whole. Many of the displays that have me crabbing away going 'nopenopenopenope' usually involve someone calling someone else out on a thread or when they imply a person or group so heavily that even I know who they're talking about.

 

 For the site itself? I love it here, all in all. Despite the recent toxicity lately, I've found cool events here, RP connections, forum RP, and more! I usually am always like "Don't have a lot of RP? Poke the RPC! I see people on there looking for RP all the time!" Which, hey, I do. Sometimes they listen to me and sometimes they don't. But this site has done a lot of good as a whole that it'd suck to see this slump put it down a harsher road.

[Iex]

Part of the issue with growing forums and growing communities is that topics that have been discussed to death will often rear their head again in ugly ways.

 

I am not referring to questions about lore that reappear every other week. Fact of the matter with those is the second they are off the main page they tend to be fair game because it is difficult to expect someone to search the forums beyond the first pages for the exact answer to their question.

 

I am referring to the threads that keep popping at least one a month in which the same people take the same stances and verbally spare with the same comments. Such as ERP, representation, sexism, elitism, and other REAL LIFE social issues being applied to a fantasy game where they do not exist. All of them are under the shallow guise of RP discussion but clearly never stay there so it becomes personal for everyone. These threads seem to come in threes and end up kinda getting everyone at each others throats for some reason or another. Over time it will build up to a bit of a sour time for everyone for a bit.

 

What can be done about that? Fuck if I know.

 

The other thing to note is, not everyone is going to mesh well RPing. Some folks are looking for particular things from RP, be it adventure, be it psychological thrills, be it slice of life RP, and of course that list goes on. Folks also have a different method of getting that rp, a recipe if you will.

 

Some people have it this way:

 

Internal Conflict (between characters) -> Resolution -> Bonding -> Growth -> cycle repeats.

 

Other people have it this way:

 

Bonding -> External Conflict (World affecting them) -> Growth -> Resolution -> repeat.

 

You can arrange it in any pattern you want.

 

However, if folks have a different methodology to getting the RP they want than other people, it can create tension. It can also flat out create barriers for RP all together. If someone prefers bonding first or external conflict over internal conflict, RPing won't really happen "easily" between the people and can even create OOC tension because the way the characters react will be based on the style of RP the individuals want. Folks can get excited for the prospect of RPing an idea with someone, but because what the individuals want and the method of getting it does not mesh well, the RP may quickly fizzle out due to a member of it being uninterested or the RP may simply never start.  (This is just from personal experience)

 

All of this can bleed (oh another word that causes massive thread issue) into folks whether they realize it or not. People like rping in ways that they think give the best character development or enjoyable times. When you think something is best, you may end up voicing your opinion about it a bit too strongly and because the lack of 'tone' in text it can be taken the wrong way. Those who don't get "RP" style along may start to think folks simply don't want to rp with them and feel isolated as if they are being stonewalled.

 

And since my train of thought has completely been derailed while Rping and trying to post and I don't know where I was going with this.... here is a dancing Cactaur:

 

:cactuar:

 

Edited for better word choice pointed out by Tiergan.

[Flickering Ember]

I'm used to this kind of behavior on RP community forums. It won't drive me away so easily. That said, I do also prefer the RPC and how it was when I first joined. This has been the most positive community I have been in. So, even though I am used to things being argumentative, that doesn't mean I want the RPC to stay that way.

 

I'm rather opinionated at times and because of that I usually just try to keep out of discussions. I don't post a lot and prefer lurking. I am always searching for ways to improve my tone and have been on a journey to do so ever since I left my first MMO. This is what I feel drives much of the negativity--tone. Often times we might view ourselves as being completely calm, maybe a little bit impassioned, but not angry. Then we type up a post and the reader either takes the tone wrong or the original poster takes the rebuttal the wrong way. A lot of it is just very subtle. 

 

The only non-subtle example I can give to the posters here is to not feel like you need to get in the last word. It can be hard to be the first person to just walk away because it makes it read like the other person has somehow 'out debated' you. 

 

I know several people who avoid the RPC because of it, yes. Unfortunately, even this thread has some examples of hostility in it.

[Tiergan]

I don't think two people having very different Rp values/priorities immediately means they're going to have friction.

 

There were plenty of people I disagreed with lorewise in the past in ways where our RP probably wouldn't ever intersect -- but we were also 100% okay with that and accepting that it's okay we RP differently. I think if people stopped to REMEMBER that more often - that it's okay for people to have different interpretations on the lore and RP styles than you do - we'd have a lot less fighting and sniping.

 

Does it create barriers between different groups of RPers? Sure -- but not everyone has to RP with everyone else, nor should they have to. This community is large enough where you can find like-minded people to befriend and RP with and everyone can be happy from the folks RPing that Link and Zelda have crossed over into Eorzea and are now wandering the world to the folks RPing the most strict, lore-adherent character possible with zero special-snowflake vibes.

 

[Edit: HERP DERP MADE A TYPO]

[industrythirteen]

I'm mostly an outsider. I haven't RPd in several months due to my own choice due to my apathy towards my current character. I don't really know a lot of the long-time posters, moderators, or anyone really outside of my friends from other communities or my FC. Most people I've met I've met through doing illustrations for them and talking to them one-on-one. This is not a complaint about my lack of RP. I know it is an on-going issue for some, and not for others, and there are a dozen reasons why it is that way, and none of them the same for everyone. I merely want to make an observation from my own time spent reading various threads. 

 

There is a rule in place to not call people out. For good reason. And I agree with the rule. What I see, however, is that I think folks are still afraid that they are being named, or labeled, when people talk about certain behaviors or activities, or demographics in threads. I have seen a few posts start with "I think you may be referring to me." The thing is, no one really knows if that is the case of not. I think folks are very much afraid of being labeled or judged, or invalidated by others. 

 

It took me a very long time to understand that while someone may be referring negatively to something I like, or activities I participate in, or something, anything, that I in some way relate to, that they were not really referring to me. They are expressing and opinion, not a fact. So, I stopped jumping to the defensive about it. It wasn't about me, and I didn't need to draw unnecessary attention to myself, and how I was not that thing that was so disliked. It wasn't about me, and I was not that person. I stopped being so distressed by the possibility that my character was in question. 

 

I think that some of the tension folks are sensing may be from ongoing or long-term misunderstandings that may have turned to grievance and further resentment. The only way I know how to solve that issue is to identify what is first distressing me, and then talk to the person involved to make sure the misunderstanding is cleared up. Sometimes it's painful, and scary, but I've always felt a sense of relief when I've cleared up the misunderstanding, or, come to find out that it wasn't really about me all along. 

 

I think folks may be reading into comments, falsely believing that the comment or opinion expressed is about them. Very rarely have I seen any intentional labeling, shaming, or invalidation on these forums. But, I have seen a lot of folks not wanting to be seen as that thing they are afraid of being seen as, and taking a defensive position, being more afraid of the possibility, than the reality.

[g0ne]

Okay, my tab crashed twice. Twice. While I was typing a long post. I'm going to do it in two parts now. 

 

Firstly, I want to start off with this. I know deep down that a lot of people have issues with me and my positive and happy outlook of life. And my insistence to always smile. As a person suffering from lupus, I want to smile and I want to make people smile. Because I believe smiling makes a whole lot of things a whole lot easier. It makes life easier.

 

Now getting to the main part. When I first joined the RPC, I was scared. Very scared and intimidated. I joined because I thought the community was really nice and friendly. And everyone assured me of that. It was. It is. But we're squandering all that. This community has the potential to be the nicest community, but we're just not doing that. What happened to all the 'don't worry. We're all a friendly helpful bunch.' No on says that anymore and no one tries to prove that anymore either. 

 

Next. Arguments and debates. Said this before, I'll say it again. Arguments are not a negative thing. It means stating your opinion and backing it. Maybe convince the other party of it. But that's all. By no means does it mean that you impose your opinion on others. Everyone is a unique individual, every one has their own thoughts, values, opinions and so on. Respect that. Respect other people. 

 

Believe me when I say that I like arguing and debating. On the rare occasion that it goes nicely. I've tried to argue, with people I know and get along with really well, but it almost always combusts no matter how calm and happy I am. And when I try to calm things down, it gets worse. I'm not saying I'm perfect. I'm not saying I'm always calm in arguments and that I don't get angry. I'm not. But I try my best. 

 

I'll continue the rest in my next post.

[Iex]

I don't think two people having very different Rp values/priorities immediately means they're going to have friction.

 

There were plenty of people I disagreed with lorewise in the past in ways where our RP probably wouldn't ever intersect -- but we were also 100% okay with that and accepting that it's okay we RP differently.  I think if people stopped to REMEMBER that more often - that it's okay for people to have different interpretations on the lore and RP styles than you do - we'd have a lot less fighting and sniping.

 

Does it create barriers between different groups of RPers?  Sure -- but not everyone has to RP with everyone else, nor should they have to.  This community is large enough where you can find like-minded people to befriend and RP with and everyone can be happy from the folks RPing that Link and Zelda have crossed over into Eorzea and are now wandering the world to the folks RPing the most strict, lore-adherent character possible with zero special-snowflake vibes.

*adds some cans and what not to his post*

 

I was referring to when folks clash on the forums different methodology can and values can breed into sour behavior intentional or not.

 

Edited so that Tiergan's post is correct .

[g0ne]

Now, if arguing with close people can be so dangerous, the RPC is a completely different situation. Sure, I know you guys. But only through your posts. I don't know you in depth or who you really are. But I look up to and admire a lot of people on the RPC. I respect you. And I want it to stay that way. Arguments tend to leave bad impressions. 

 

The entire reason I stay on those happy go lucky threads is because the debate ones always either get warnings from the mods or get closed. And they may be cheesy and mushy, and people may think they're stupid and pointless, but no one's getting angry on that thread. Everything is nice. And tell me: have any one of them even gotten a single warning?

 

Recently, there's been so much aggression and passive aggression on the RPC, it's sad. What I dislike the most is how someone has to pinpoint someone else and then it turns into a one on one mess. Why promote it further? Just ignore it or avoid it. Move on. It's really not that difficult. 

 

We're harming the community,  we're scaring new people away, we're not doing ourselves any good. 

 

I want to point out that mods, you've been doing an awesome job. I can sort of understand that it's really tough being a moderator. You guys keep it up. Without you, we'd all be nothing.

 

And Franz, thank you for pointing this out. It's admirable that you took the step and decided to say it out front.  

 

I know all of this is negligible compared to real life. But let's admit it. This does take its toll. Even if it's minimal. 

 

Okay, lastly, I'll just stay on the pointless compliment thread. There's nothing wrong with complimenting people. The reason I stay on light hearted threads and try to make more of them is because we already have too many threads with a bang here, a boom there, and explosive fireworks everywhere. 

 

Guys, take it easy. Be happy and make happy. That's all.