Nico Nico Ishgard Lore Panel

[Aduu Avagnar]

Didn't see a thread for this, so if there is one, apologies:

 

Here is a translation of a Lore Panel done on Ishgard at the Nico Nico Super Conference.

 

there isn't much lore there, but thats what it was called, and its an interesting read, nonetheless.

[Jana]

 

Although it wasn't implemented as a class, we created kind of a "dueling court" based on the duelist class. We're taking advantage of the Heavensward setting to bring in some elements like those which never saw the light of day. (Oda)

 

I wonder if this dueling thing means we'll have 1v1 PvP, even if it's just in this arena area instead of as a freely usable command.

 

Are you thinking you'll have more beastly type races in the future?

 

Yoshida: I'd like to see how popular different styles of Au Ra become and based on that I'll think about whether we should go in a beast-shaped kind of direction or a more natural one.

 

I guess the people complaining about Au Ra have something to look forward to.

[Seriphyn]

The Au Ra group is made with the image of the devil. Their designs are inspired by demons, not dragons. Because of this, even though they have a similar appearance to dragons, they won't be especially persecuted by city residents.

 

Surprising...I would have though that it doesn't matter if they are more demonic, people's ignorance and prejudices don't favour the truth of something. But I imagine SE don't want players to feel disheartened by playing characters who are shunned by the NPCs you are the hero of.

[Dravus]

The Au Ra group is made with the image of the devil. Their designs are inspired by demons, not dragons. Because of this, even though they have a similar appearance to dragons, they won't be especially persecuted by city residents.

 

Surprising...I would have though that it doesn't matter if they are more demonic, people's ignorance and prejudices don't favour the truth of something. But I imagine SE don't want players to feel disheartened by playing characters who are shunned by the NPCs you are the hero of.

 

I imagine there's going to be a lot of player characters who will distrust them for all sorts of different reasons. Ishgardians aren't known for their tolerance at the best of times - but it does seem like they're very slowly becoming more and more welcoming towards outsiders.

 

As for everything else? The article doesn't reveal a whole lot that wasn't available already but I'm quite pleased that we haven't got a 'WoW' situation where every last little detail about a content patch/expansion is revealed to players in advance.

 

I look forward to exploring everything when the expansion goes live.

 

The 'genetic engineering/experimentation' thing piques my interest. I'm guessing it has something to do with the Garlean Empire (since it feels like the sort of thing they'd be into) but I may be mistaken. If it is, however, it may allow me to shed some darker light on Graeham's mixed heritage if it turns out to be something they've been doing for some time elsewhere.

[Kage]

I imagine a lot of that commentary is because the players were like AHHH DRAGON/DRACONIC PEOPLE AHHH!!!

[Harmonixer]

The Au Ra group is made with the image of the devil. Their designs are inspired by demons, not dragons. Because of this, even though they have a similar appearance to dragons, they won't be especially persecuted by city residents.

 

Surprising...I would have though that it doesn't matter if they are more demonic, people's ignorance and prejudices don't favour the truth of something. But I imagine SE don't want players to feel disheartened by playing characters who are shunned by the NPCs you are the hero of.

 

I imagine there's going to be a lot of player characters who will distrust them for all sorts of different reasons. Ishgardians aren't known for their tolerance at the best of times - but it does seem like they're very slowly becoming more and more welcoming towards outsiders.

 

As for everything else? The article doesn't reveal a whole lot that wasn't available already but I'm quite pleased that we haven't got a 'WoW' situation where every last little detail about a content patch/expansion is revealed to players in advance.

 

I look forward to exploring everything when the expansion goes live.

 

The 'genetic engineering/experimentation' thing piques my interest. I'm guessing it has something to do with the Garlean Empire (since it feels like the sort of thing they'd be into) but I may be mistaken. If it is, however, it may allow me to shed some darker light on Graeham's mixed heritage if it turns out to be something they've been doing for some time elsewhere.

 

 

It pleases me to see that people outside of my circle of friends take an interest in stuff like this. Since I have little interaction with Garlean RPers atm, I feel as though I won't be encountering a lot of themes like this unless I actively seek it out.

 

This theme, was one of my original attractions to Wildstar, but that didn't quite pan out for myself as I don't play that particular title anymore for a number of reasons. Still a fine game though- and that's unrelated. Sorry.

 

On the subject of Au Ra, I am hopeful that mixed reactions will come up and not be met with overwhelmingly positive or negative stuff without some time spent interacting. At least for my character. I'd like to start on a grey area with everyone and let his actions determine his standing. It makes it much more fun for me.

 

Death Knights in WoW tended to have a very onesided style of RP, which worked in that game because of predetermined lore reasons. I was okay with them there, (Even the questlines to make one were very clear about what you are and how people are supposed to feel about you) it just makes me hopeful that it's slightly more open ended here when it comes to Au Ra. Weird comparison I guess, but a passing thought.

[Goodfellow]

In many areas there are ruins of the ancient cities of Sharlayan.

 

Since the people of Sharlayan were focused on wisdom and philosophy, the naming conventions were made with Greek archetypes in mind. (Koji Fox)

 

The architecture was also designed with Greek styles in mind. The dragons have not come to the areas where the people of Sharlayan once lived. (Oda)

 

Okay, I don't have the info in front of me, but I thought that the Sharlayan colony on the Aldenard mainland was more recently abandoned (within the last few years, a couple of decades at the most), but the above quote makes it look like the Eorzean Sharlayan is ancient history.

 

Anyone able to clarify?

[Kellach Woods]

The 'genetic engineering/experimentation' thing piques my interest. I'm guessing it has something to do with the Garlean Empire (since it feels like the sort of thing they'd be into) but I may be mistaken. If it is, however, it may allow me to shed some darker light on Graeham's mixed heritage if it turns out to be something they've been doing for some time elsewhere.

 

Feels more like an Allagan empire thing than a Garlean thing - Not that they wouldn't do it, but rather that they're still very, very far behind the Allagan Empire in terms of that, and we know that the Allagan empire certainly did that with cloning experiments and things like Phlegeton/Amon/Xande.

 

Also, the ??? area is SCREAMING FF6 inspired Floating Continent.

[Seriphyn]

In many areas there are ruins of the ancient cities of Sharlayan.

 

Since the people of Sharlayan were focused on wisdom and philosophy, the naming conventions were made with Greek archetypes in mind. (Koji Fox)

 

The architecture was also designed with Greek styles in mind. The dragons have not come to the areas where the people of Sharlayan once lived. (Oda)

 

Okay, I don't have the info in front of me, but I thought that the Sharlayan colony on the Aldenard mainland was more recently abandoned (within the last few years, a couple of decades at the most), but the above quote makes it look like the Eorzean Sharlayan is ancient history.

 

Anyone able to clarify?

 

I wouldn't overthink the translation. Sharlayan colony is named the same as their home city-state.

[Blue]

; ; Shepherd Class? I want that...!!

[Kellach Woods]

Play Ultima IV then

[Clover]

The Au Ra group is made with the image of the devil. Their designs are inspired by demons, not dragons. Because of this, even though they have a similar appearance to dragons, they won't be especially persecuted by city residents.

 

Surprising...I would have though that it doesn't matter if they are more demonic, people's ignorance and prejudices don't favour the truth of something. But I imagine SE don't want players to feel disheartened by playing characters who are shunned by the NPCs you are the hero of.

 

This is not fun at all, and it makes no sense anyway. Yugiri covered her face because Eorzeans don't know what an Au Ra is. I doubt Ishgard, always isolated Ishgard, knows better. If doesn't matter what Au Ra's real nature is; no one can figure that out at first sight, especially when the very explanation about their lore states how easy it is to mistake them as dragons.

 

Just like I don't follow the whole "I'm the hero, watch me shine" part of the lore, I don't want to lose the chance to get interesting conflicts with Au Ras. Not doing so feels weird, forced, and sugar coated anyway.

[Melodia]

The Au Ra group is made with the image of the devil. Their designs are inspired by demons, not dragons. Because of this, even though they have a similar appearance to dragons, they won't be especially persecuted by city residents.

 

Surprising...I would have though that it doesn't matter if they are more demonic, people's ignorance and prejudices don't favour the truth of something. But I imagine SE don't want players to feel disheartened by playing characters who are shunned by the NPCs you are the hero of.

 

This is not fun at all, and it makes no sense anyway. Yugiri covered her face because Eorzeans don't know what an Au Ra is. I doubt Ishgard, always isolated Ishgard, knows better. If doesn't matter what Au Ra's real nature is; no one can figure that out at first sight, especially when the very explanation about their lore states how easy it is to mistake them as dragons.

 

Just like I don't follow the whole "I'm the hero, watch me shine" part of the lore, I don't want to lose the chance to get interesting conflicts with Au Ras. Not doing so feels weird, forced, and sugar coated anyway.

 

So are we just disregarding this because we don't like it? It's lore...I am sure there are plenty of rp'ers who would gladly disregard lore because it isn't fun, but to simply ignore it....doesn't feel right either? I'm just saying my thought is all. I don't have an Au Ra and don't have much horse in the game at all with them. Just saw the comment and wanted to offer my thought.

[Goodfellow]

I wouldn't overthink the translation. Sharlayan colony is named the same as their home city-state.

 

Right.  That's true and possibly confuses my question somewhat, but I'm not asking anything about the island nation of Sharlayan, just the timing of their defunct Eorzean colony.

[Clover]

So are we just disregarding this because we don't like it? It's lore...I am sure there are plenty of rp'ers who would gladly disregard lore because it isn't fun, but to simply ignore it....doesn't feel right either? I'm just saying my thought is all. I don't have an Au Ra and don't have much horse in the game at all with them. Just saw the comment and wanted to offer my thought.

 

But it doesn't sound like lore, that's the problem. Their explanation to the sudden friendliness towards Au Ras is that they "designed them based on demons, not dragons; because of this, they won't be persecuted". What kind of lore breaking explanation is that? So if I played an Ishgard character and someone asks me why I'm not against Au Ras, all I can say is "see, but their designers have told me that they're unrelated to dragons"?

 

This becomes even more bizarre when the Au Ra designs themselves have the words "race_dragon" attached to them, or are displayed together with real dragons.

 

 

 

In any case, my problem is that there's a lack of real IC reason for Eorzeans to not relate Au Ras to dragons. Considering that Ishgard is very closed-minded and unfriendly, it becomes extra odd. It feels like they simply want players to feel that their character is the most respected/loved, so they will force their way out of any possible conflict with said character. It's not only strange, but it's also not fun at all in my opinion.

 

I am not going to do anything with the community, but neither I'm going to miss the chance of enjoying some serious conflict in my private RP with friends. That'd be a huge waste.

[Blue]

Play Ultima IV then

 

I'll rectify that I want Shepherd class in FFXIV, then.... :dodgy:

[Sounsyy]

I wouldn't overthink the translation. Sharlayan colony is named the same as their home city-state.

 

Right.  That's true and possibly confuses my question somewhat, but I'm not asking anything about the island nation of Sharlayan, just the timing of their defunct Eorzean colony.

 

The Sharlayan colony west of Dravania was abandoned 20 years ago after the fall of Ala Mhigo and peace negotiations between Sharlayan and Garlemald failed.

[Manari]

As far as disregarding lore goes, I remember this was a big topic of debate when 2.0 finally launched and people were burning through the original story missions. At the end of 1.0, the final cut scene showed Derplander's team of adventurers being warped away somewhere just as Bahamut decided to start going on a rampage. Then it all ended. For almost a year we were left to debate what exactly happened there. The scene where Derplander's party reappears and calls their chocobos didn't appear until one of later phases of 2.0's beta.

 

Most believed that Derplander's party was a proxy for our characters in the cut scene therefore we all got teleported somewhere. Others believed that in the storyline, specifically only Derplander's party was transported. Then there were debates over exactly where/when they were transported to. Most of us RP'ed that our character was somehow involved in that massive battle against the Garleans. Which was more difficult for some than others. A few of us RPed that our characters either fled the Realm or otherwise sought out safety. After all, an entire moon was about to crash into our land.

 

Once 2.0 released, it was made clear that our characters were transported 5 years into the future, just as most of us had heard or guessed. But what we didn't expect was the plot point that no one remembered us. So there was a big debate in the RP community about this. Some people said that you /must/ RP all your friends and family completely forgetting about you if you teleported through time, because the game clearly says that no one can remember the "Warriors of Light". Also, if you didn't teleport through time, you /must/ forget about every character you've ever RPed with who did time travel. The Echo seemed to be the one way around this. So suddenly, many characters developed The Echo as a way to circumvent this plot point.

 

Other people just decided that they didn't like having to forget every bit of RP they had ever done and chose to ignore it completely. In the end, I don't think it mattered since in the storyline the Warriors of Light are eventually remembered anyway. But it was a classic case of SE throwing in some special "your character is the one true hero" plot point stuff that everyone interpreted into their RP in a different way.

 

What this all boils down to is how /your/ character specifically will react to an Au Ra, not how SE says their NPCs will react. Manari has never seen one before, so of course she's going to be a little shocked. I have a male highlander alt that just likes pretty girls regardless of what race they are. When he sees an Au Ra (female) he will react much differently than Manari will. That's how I'm looking at it.

[Goodfellow]

Right.  That's true and possibly confuses my question somewhat, but I'm not asking anything about the island nation of Sharlayan, just the timing of their defunct Eorzean colony.

 

The Sharlayan colony west of Dravania was abandoned 20 years ago after the fall of Ala Mhigo and peace negotiations between Sharlayan and Garlemald failed.

 

I thought I remembered that being the case.  That's why reference to "ancient" Sharlayan ruins confuses me.  I don't know when the colony was founded, but if it was only abandoned 20 years ago I'd hardly call that ancient.  So, either the colony was founded very, very long ago and was riddled with older architecture that was already "ruined" before the Sharlayans decided to abandon it or that wasn't the first Sharlayan colony and other far older colonies preceded it.

 

Does that make sense?  Is there something I'm missing?

[Sounsyy]

Right.  That's true and possibly confuses my question somewhat, but I'm not asking anything about the island nation of Sharlayan, just the timing of their defunct Eorzean colony.

 

The Sharlayan colony west of Dravania was abandoned 20 years ago after the fall of Ala Mhigo and peace negotiations between Sharlayan and Garlemald failed.

 

I thought I remembered that being the case.  That's why reference to "ancient" Sharlayan ruins confuses me.  I don't know when the colony was founded, but if it was only abandoned 20 years ago I'd hardly call that ancient.  So, either the colony was founded very, very long ago and was riddled with older architecture that was already "ruined" before the Sharlayans decided to abandon it or that wasn't the first Sharlayan colony and other far older colonies preceded it.

 

Does that make sense?  Is there something I'm missing?

 

It's difficult to say. We know Sharlayan existed during the Year 200 of the Sixth Astral Era, dating Sharlayan at at least 1400 years old. However, we don't know if Lewphon of Sharlayan hailed from northern island Sharlayan or Aldenardian Sharlayan. Sharlayan may even pre-date the Sixth Astral Era as a group of twelve Archons attempted to defeat the Ascians during the 5th Umbral Era's War of the Magi. While it never outright says these Archons were members of Sharlayan's council called the Circle of Knowing, there are parallels.

 

Alternatively, Roddard Ironheart, a Sharlayan cartographer, didn't complete the first (known) complete map of Eorzea until 1506 6AE, 71 years ago. It could be assumed that the mainland Sharlayan colony wasn't established until circa that time period? We don't yet know for sure. Sharlayan may have just built their colony on top of ruins of some more ancient civilization.

[Zyrusticae]

So are we just disregarding this because we don't like it? It's lore...I am sure there are plenty of rp'ers who would gladly disregard lore because it isn't fun, but to simply ignore it....doesn't feel right either? I'm just saying my thought is all. I don't have an Au Ra and don't have much horse in the game at all with them. Just saw the comment and wanted to offer my thought.

 

But it doesn't sound like lore, that's the problem. Their explanation to the sudden friendliness towards Au Ras is that they "designed them based on demons, not dragons; because of this, they won't be persecuted". What kind of lore breaking explanation is that? So if I played an Ishgard character and someone asks me why I'm not against Au Ras, all I can say is "see, but their designers have told me that they're unrelated to dragons"?

 

This becomes even more bizarre when the Au Ra designs themselves have the words "race_dragon" attached to them, or are displayed together with real dragons.

 

 

 

In any case, my problem is that there's a lack of real IC reason for Eorzeans to not relate Au Ras to dragons. Considering that Ishgard is very closed-minded and unfriendly, it becomes extra odd. It feels like they simply want players to feel that their character is the most respected/loved, so they will force their way out of any possible conflict with said character. It's not only strange, but it's also not fun at all in my opinion.

 

I am not going to do anything with the community, but neither I'm going to miss the chance of enjoying some serious conflict in my private RP with friends. That'd be a huge waste.

 

 

What's even more annoying is that taking the explanation at face value is equally absurd.

 

"Dragons? Oh, no no no, you see, our ancestors came from the Dawn Mother and the Dusk Father and-"

 

"You mean to say your ancestors CONSORTED WITH VOIDSENT? BURN THE HERETICS!"

 

Etc., etc.

 

As many things as I enjoyed about Yoshida's iteration of the game, the sudden separation they're creating between lore and gameplay and even lore and story are not among them. The design of the Au Ra themselves speaks of a desire to pander towards the lowest common denominator rather than any will to create a virtual, fictional world (as opposed to a playground).

 

It's sad. That's all I can say.

 

It's a good thing I enjoy the rest of the game enough that this isn't enough to stop me from having fun with it all.

[Erik Mynhier]

It may seem odd that SE is basically say the Auri will be no big deal yet treated our ninja friend as such a shock to the general population. If I may I think I can call a real life example of this to show how it is possible.

 

It was taught to us in school how the Netherlands and Japan had strong trade relations after the Waring States Era. As such we had in Holland several dutch who reacted differently. The affluent educated were acutely aware of Japan and Japanese people. The art and culture even became posh during that time among the wealthy, the original weeboos. The modestly comfortable had a knowledge of Japan but a fuzzy knowledge of Japanese people. No internet meant you had to rely on descriptions in books to know them at all. The uneducated poor had no idea there was even such a place as Japan. Despite being such a strong partner to the nation, the poor masses were to busy surviving to look into it. If they met a Japanese person they may not have reacted politely.

 

So I can sort of see where SE is coming from. We forget sometimes that there were times when the accumulation of human knowledge was not at everyone's fingertips. And that people without knowledge react...... poorly sometimes.

[Wymsical]

the lowest common denominator

 

Yikes. That's a little harsh. I think 'majority appeal' would be a better way to put it, but hey...

 

To everyone worrying about this part of the lore, I think we need to remember that we have at least three races/race subsets that should be treated differently by the game, but don't: Duskwight, Highlanders and Keepers. In lore, all three of those have significant negative perceptions toward them from various segments of the population but there's no acknowledgment from the game if you play one.

 

FFXIV doesn't differentiate from race. Gameplay wise, it's essentially just a cosmetic choice. It's not TES where there's slight differences for quests or reactions or the basic "Oh hi, [race]!" Since there's going to be Au Ra players running all over the place, they can't really have the Holy See declare them heretics or have every questgiver react to one with 'AHHHH VOIDSENT GO AWAY'. That might work in a single-player game but again, XIV has absolutely no in-game acknowledgment of your race, most likely to streamline quests and gameplay experience.

 

I'm sure there's still going to be prejudice and suspicion that gets mentioned in certain quests or lore tidbits; they've established time and again that this world can be a rather xenophobic one. RP-wise, I'd say a pretty good explanation would be that Ishgardians in general are so desperate for help that they'll try to ignore most weird stuff in the hopes of not perishing to a horde of dragons.