Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs

[111]

 

Bad Points

 

* The healing is Diurnal Sect isn’t as strong as WHM which means I often have to work a lot harder to keep people up and can’t dps. I don’t really mind but to some people in the community this is seen as a bad thing.

 

Nocturnal Stance gives the same healing power as a WHM, but you're getting shields instead of a regen. Being now level 58, I don't like to compare AST to any of the other healers now as they pretty much have their own way of functioning. If you want to dps as an AST, learn how to effectively heal as one. Same goes with the other healers. 

 

I tried running MCH for 5 levels to get the feel of it, but I'm literally feeling like I'm doing absolutely nothing at all even after properly using the ammo system. It just feels...so slow and flimsy. Is this a real gun or a potato gun?

I don't have any interest in dpsing. My priority goes healing -> buffing -> dps as should all good healers. Also I heal fine thanks, just not a lot of room to dps in the new dungeons compared to the old one's, especially in the vault.

 

All good healers have to DPS.

 

Not DPSing is a luxury you get in old content, but in my opinion good healers do current content, and in order to clear anything besides 4 man dungeons or old raids/primals, healers have to dps.

[Aife]

 

Bad Points

 

* The healing is Diurnal Sect isn’t as strong as WHM which means I often have to work a lot harder to keep people up and can’t dps. I don’t really mind but to some people in the community this is seen as a bad thing.

 

Nocturnal Stance gives the same healing power as a WHM, but you're getting shields instead of a regen. Being now level 58, I don't like to compare AST to any of the other healers now as they pretty much have their own way of functioning. If you want to dps as an AST, learn how to effectively heal as one. Same goes with the other healers. 

 

I tried running MCH for 5 levels to get the feel of it, but I'm literally feeling like I'm doing absolutely nothing at all even after properly using the ammo system. It just feels...so slow and flimsy. Is this a real gun or a potato gun?

I don't have any interest in dpsing. My priority goes healing -> buffing -> dps as should all good healers. Also I heal fine thanks, just not a lot of room to dps in the new dungeons compared to the old one's, especially in the vault.

 

All good healers have to DPS.

 

Not DPSing is a luxury you get in old content, but in my opinion good healers do current content, and in order to clear anything besides 4 man dungeons or old raids/primals, healers have to dps.

 

You know what. I'm going to stop posting. I can't be bothered arguing with you guys. Have fun.

[111]

 

Bad Points

 

* The healing is Diurnal Sect isn’t as strong as WHM which means I often have to work a lot harder to keep people up and can’t dps. I don’t really mind but to some people in the community this is seen as a bad thing.

 

Nocturnal Stance gives the same healing power as a WHM, but you're getting shields instead of a regen. Being now level 58, I don't like to compare AST to any of the other healers now as they pretty much have their own way of functioning. If you want to dps as an AST, learn how to effectively heal as one. Same goes with the other healers. 

 

I tried running MCH for 5 levels to get the feel of it, but I'm literally feeling like I'm doing absolutely nothing at all even after properly using the ammo system. It just feels...so slow and flimsy. Is this a real gun or a potato gun?

I don't have any interest in dpsing. My priority goes healing -> buffing -> dps as should all good healers. Also I heal fine thanks, just not a lot of room to dps in the new dungeons compared to the old one's, especially in the vault.

 

All good healers have to DPS.

 

Not DPSing is a luxury you get in old content, but in my opinion good healers do current content, and in order to clear anything besides 4 man dungeons or old raids/primals, healers have to dps.

 

You know what. I'm going to stop posting. I can't be bothered arguing with you guys. Have fun.

 

It's unfortunate that you equate disagreement with attack.

 

Perhaps it is best if you do stop posting, if disagreement affects you so.

[Kellach Woods]

So far, I've found that any boss doing magic damage is better tanked with anything but a WAR. Vault's last boss almost wrecked me and there was nothing I realistically could have done beyond having better gear.

 

Other than Vengeance, every cooldown that diminishes damage in requires physical attacks. You can heal yourself, but either you get more potent EH at the cost of max vitality or you get less potent EH but get the vit to soak some of these big hits.

 

WAR's still very viable, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather swap to PLD or DRK for anything that does magic damage.

[Michikyou]

 

Nocturnal Stance gives the same healing power as a WHM, but you're getting shields instead of a regen. Being now level 58, I don't like to compare AST to any of the other healers now as they pretty much have their own way of functioning. If you want to dps as an AST, learn how to effectively heal as one. Same goes with the other healers. 

 

I tried running MCH for 5 levels to get the feel of it, but I'm literally feeling like I'm doing absolutely nothing at all even after properly using the ammo system. It just feels...so slow and flimsy. Is this a real gun or a potato gun?

I don't have any interest in dpsing. My priority goes healing -> buffing -> dps as should all good healers. Also I heal fine thanks, just not a lot of room to dps in the new dungeons compared to the old one's, especially in the vault.

 

All good healers have to DPS.

 

Not DPSing is a luxury you get in old content, but in my opinion good healers do current content, and in order to clear anything besides 4 man dungeons or old raids/primals, healers have to dps.

 

You know what. I'm going to stop posting. I can't be bothered arguing with you guys. Have fun.

 

It's unfortunate that you equate disagreement with attack.

 

Perhaps it is best if you do stop posting, if disagreement affects you so.

Actually - I agree with her. The new dungeons (at 60, the dugneons from 51-59 are piss easy) are rather hard hitting and as a scholar i;ve found there to be times where I don't even have time to throw up a dot if the DPS is slow or if the tank doesnt blow cooldowns at the right points. yes, Dpsing should be dont as a healer but but if it means you aren't confident healing your group and keeping them up.

 

Especially when some monsters basic attacks are doing 1000-1500 damage, and there are twelve of them.

Perhaps this will change with gear, perhaps not. We will see in the coming patches.

[Gegenji]

I usually try to DPS while healing, but my first and foremost concern is keeping peoples' health up. The only time I'm deadset on getting my DoTs and such up is right at the pull - where I hopefully have an Adlo and Stoneskin on the tank to cover for me while I do it.

 

That's not to say I haven't forgotten to heal while DPSing. I was in one of the new level 60 dungeons and the tank dropped because I was trying to help DPS the adds. I could defend myself by stating that our DRG was tunneling and I felt I needed to cover for him... but I really wasn't sticking to the role I'm there for. Helping DPS is a bonus to help mitigate future healing (by making things die sooner), but it really wasn't what I was supposed to be doing.

 

Then again, it's hard to tell when you can DPS and when you can't sometimes - especially with PuGs. You never know when a DPS or tank is going to space and get hit by a big attack, or ignore other mechanics like adds or "you have to click this thing to live" stuff. My first fight with Bismarck, I was literally doing both the shields and one of the spear-guns because people were ignoring them. But that's another story entirely.

 

Your job as a healer is to heal - and being able to add to DPS should be secondary. So, the idea that AST might not be able to add enough DPS themselves doesn't bother me (unless I'm soloing). They can keep people up, and their cards either aid in that or - when put on the right people - boost their damage to make up for it (either through straight damage boost or skillspeed increase). I get a feeling that putting 10% more damage on that Monk goes a long way to mitigating the AST's own DPS capability.

[Kage]

I don't have any interest in dpsing. My priority goes healing -> buffing -> dps as should all good healers. Also I heal fine thanks, just not a lot of room to dps in the new dungeons compared to the old one's, especially in the vault.

 

All good healers have to DPS.

 

Not DPSing is a luxury you get in old content, but in my opinion good healers do current content, and in order to clear anything besides 4 man dungeons or old raids/primals, healers have to dps.

 

You know what. I'm going to stop posting. I can't be bothered arguing with you guys. Have fun.

 

It's unfortunate that you equate disagreement with attack.

 

Perhaps it is best if you do stop posting, if disagreement affects you so.

Actually - I agree with her. The new dungeons (at 60, the dugneons from 51-59 are piss easy) are rather hard hitting and as a scholar i;ve found there to be times where I don't even have time to throw up a dot if the DPS is slow or if the tank doesnt blow cooldowns at the right points. yes, Dpsing should be dont as a healer but but if it means you aren't confident healing your group and keeping them up.

 

Especially when some monsters basic attacks are doing 1000-1500 damage, and there are twelve of them.

Perhaps this will change with gear, perhaps not. We will see in the coming patches.

In my opinion, you can't DD as a healer when your tank isn't good. I had a pld keep running through vault without blowing cooldowns and fuck me as a SCH without Emergency tactics? at that point.... SHIT HURTS. I ONLY HAVE SO MANY LUSTRATES. Shields only do so much when you're taking so much damage.

 

For awhile I thought DRKs were squishy. But then I met less squishy ones. Probably better with cooldowns etc.

 

Seriously, depending on gear or how many you pull.. I swear fuckin' let me shield you and use cooldowns. If I am using cooldowns in my role, so should you. And if you're going to leave me doing that, well I'm not going to DD.

[Kahnopy]

BRD main over here.

 

Wanderer's Minuet

So I know it is pretty much the epicenter of the BRD controversy right now but I like it. Thematically, an archer that takes time to aim and shoot is just right to me. I'd even put myself at risk in saying that people complaining about the loss of that mobility are...a little bit lazy. You really don't need to move that much in a fight. In fact, the less movement, the better.

 

Empyreal Arrow

As cool of a skill as this one is, it feels a tiny bit awkward to use. Despite being a Weaponskill, it doesn't share a GCD with the rest of the BRD's kit, and hence it can be cast anytime in your rotation. I've seen it shine best when use right after a Straighter Shot or coupled with Barrage and Sidewinder. Good burst.

 

Iron Jaws

Nothing but good things to say about this one. You save one GCD and a hefty amount of TP just to reapply your DoTs. It finds its place rather easily in the BRD's kit.

 

Warden's Paeon

Eh. It's a cool idea and I've absolutely not explored the skill as far as it deserves, but it has far fewer applications than what the tooltip suggests. And yet it's understandable. If this skill does too much, you can be sure it would be another reason BRD are wanted in raidgroups, and given their already beast utility, we don't need that. It will probably shine in PVP, however.

 

Sidewinder

That skill is just pure awesomeness. Nothing to add.

 

And as parting words, I'd say that after playing through their expansion, and witnessing the sheer quality of it, I have good faith that SE will make some tweaking to the new skills should they prove as counter-productive as people make them look. They care about their game.

[Michikyou]

 

All good healers have to DPS.

 

Not DPSing is a luxury you get in old content, but in my opinion good healers do current content, and in order to clear anything besides 4 man dungeons or old raids/primals, healers have to dps.

 

You know what. I'm going to stop posting. I can't be bothered arguing with you guys. Have fun.

 

It's unfortunate that you equate disagreement with attack.

 

Perhaps it is best if you do stop posting, if disagreement affects you so.

Actually - I agree with her. The new dungeons (at 60, the dugneons from 51-59 are piss easy) are rather hard hitting and as a scholar i;ve found there to be times where I don't even have time to throw up a dot if the DPS is slow or if the tank doesnt blow cooldowns at the right points. yes, Dpsing should be dont as a healer but but if it means you aren't confident healing your group and keeping them up.

 

Especially when some monsters basic attacks are doing 1000-1500 damage, and there are twelve of them.

Perhaps this will change with gear, perhaps not. We will see in the coming patches.

In my opinion, you can't DD as a healer when your tank isn't good. I had a pld keep running through vault without blowing cooldowns and fuck me as a SCH without Emergency tactics? at that point.... SHIT HURTS. I ONLY HAVE SO MANY LUSTRATES. Shields only do so much when you're taking so much damage.

 

For awhile I thought DRKs were squishy. But then I met less squishy ones. Probably better with cooldowns etc.

 

Seriously, depending on gear or how many you pull.. I swear fuckin' let me shield you and use cooldowns. If I am using cooldowns in my role, so should you. And if you're going to leave me doing that, well I'm not going to DD.

Seeing as Adlo now costs around 8% of my mana pool instead of the 4% it used to cost, yeah, you can normally only do around 11 Adlo's before your oom.

[111]

Just to be clear, obviously yes, as a healer, you can't let people die, that's most important.

 

However once you can reliably keep people alive, the challenge then is to try to sneak in damage here and there to help the party. Same thing as it is for tanks, once you have aggro, it's time to throw down some numbers.

 

Fortunately pld now have stuff that lets them do that.

[Kellach Woods]

Fortunately pld now have stuff that lets them do that.

 

WAR does too, but holy fuck would I take a straight dam redux for Foresight than a straight defense buff.

 

Unless Foresight also buffs Magic Def.

 

I'm honestly considering dropping Flash/Provoke until I'm not made of papier mâché.

[Aaron]

The 3 tank are now the offspring of when a dps and a tank have a baby.

[Kellach Woods]

Someone posted up 11k crits off a Fell Cleave. I wholeheartedly believe this to not only be possible, but to straight up go for Fell Cleave Infuriate Fell Cleave and have both hit for 11k.

 

I think I'll be working on DRK as my first HW only job - if only to transfer my Phlegeton outfit to that class because the Wootz sword is LITERALLY the Phlegeton sword.

[Dravus]

Hopefully they'll tone down the damage of tanks a bit. They're there to absorb damage - not dish it out beyond what the designated damage roles are capable of. The ridiculous capabilities of tank roles compared to damage roles was one of my major pet peeves back in WoW so hopefully it'll be addressed here sooner rather than later.

 

I'm liking the new DRG abilities - it feels good to have positional requirements again. The party buff is pretty neat too and has been well received whenever I use it from what I can tell.

[Zyrusticae]

The tank classes' damage output is fine. Top-tier DPS can dish out something in the neighborhood of 1200+, where the tanks can't even break 900.

 

The fact that MCH and BRD can only hit about as hard as tanks only says they need a buff, not that tanks need a nerf.

[Harmonixer]

I'm guessing that tank damage will pale in comparison to what future geared DPS will dish out. To me, it's short sighted to get star-eyed over a few crits right out the front door from a skill that won't always have a place to be used in 'higher tier' settings. Right now, we're doing leveling and early content and it could also be that a 'huge' burst attack like that might be needed. I know I certainly welcomed it during the Bismark fight and during special add phases.

 

It's discouraging for gearing dps to see those numbers flying off the mob that isn't their own. But be mindful that it's also helping for the time being. Don't worry, it should catch up later.

 

If not, it'll get balanced accordingly. Eventually.

[Sounsyy]

Considering every 8-man or 24-man raid requires multiple tanks, yet most of these fights have absolutely no mechanics which necessitate an Off Tank - I am perfectly fine with tanks receiving a bonus to DPS strength. In a solo-tank fight that requires two tanks, there's literally nothing else for the OT to do, so I'd much rather them be assisting in DPS than being dead weight.

 

WARs get some very nice DPS numbers, and I imagine at later levels we'll be able to reach "shitty dps" status as my raid leader affectionately calls my WAR. But a tank which does 800-1000 DPS in future content will be far more welcome addition to a party than having two tanks whose combined DPS barely scratches 800 DPS. I mean... be jealous of an 11k crit Fell Cleave all you want... but in the end it's only helping your party succeed? You should be happy your WAR has the brains to use his class optimally.

[Kellach Woods]

I'm more concerned about being able to actually TANK as a WAR personally.

 

The only true damage redux we have is Vengeance, and that's a 120 seconds cooldown - Due to how the self-heal mechanics work, we have to make a choice between buffing that, or buffing our health.

 

Not saying "pls buff WAR" but just hoping that once I actually hit the level where this shit is relevant, I won't get fucked by an oversight.

[Aduu Avagnar]

I'm more concerned about being able to actually TANK as a WAR personally.

 

The only true damage redux we have is Vengeance, and that's a 120 seconds cooldown - Due to how the self-heal mechanics work, we have to make a choice between buffing that, or buffing our health.

 

Not saying "pls buff WAR" but just hoping that once I actually hit the level where this shit is relevant, I won't get fucked by an oversight.

you also have one that reduces damage by 20% every for 5 seconds every 12.5 seconds. and another that increases def by 20%

 

Paladins have 5 (6 if we cross class into Warrior). We also have Shield Oath which is a flat 20% reduction, but that's cause mitigation is our shtick. So having more than you is understandable.

[Kellach Woods]

Forgot about Inner Beast, as well.

 

Also haven't seen the 58-60 abilities yet. One of them is the self-heal that much I know.

[Sounsyy]

Forgot about Inner Beast, as well.

 

Also haven't seen the 58-60 abilities yet. One of them is the self-heal that much I know.

 

Equilibrium is your clutch heal while tanking. At 825 STR so far, it heals normal around 4.1-4.3k HP. With Berserk up I get between 6.1-6.3k. Also note that this heal can crit. So off-Berserk I can crit around 5k+ and around 7k+ with Berserk. Can repeat every 60s. So very OP and very useful. Along with Vengeance, Inner Beast, Thrill of Battle, Convalescence, and Raw Intuition - I have not been wanting for buffs or self heals.

 

That said... we haven't seen Alexander yet. But I have a feeling WARs won't be MTing that. That'll be relegated to Buffy McPaladins. So we'll be able to stance dance between full out DPS and Tank mode as needed in those fights. But from my experience in the new Lv60 dungeons, WAR is now all about the Self-Heal Tanking. You are absolutely right in that we just do not have the mitigation prowess of other tank classes. Our way to compete, especially with the new Raw Intuition and Equilibrium abilities is just to make ourselves as ridiculously easy to heal as possible.

 

 

EDIT: Decimate, our level 60 ability, has thus far been fairly useless. It's a pretty potent AoE (about 1-1.2k dmg to all mobs in a 360 degree self aoe around you) but unless you're Off Tanking and DPSing a lot of trash, the damage off of Fell Cleave is far superior. But again, so far in the game, there's not many situations where I'm dpsing a lot of trash mobs. Maybe I'll use it when soloing WP?

[Kellach Woods]

Equilibrium is your clutch heal while tanking. At 825 STR so far, it heals normal around 4.1-4.3k HP. With Berserk up I get between 6.1-6.3k. Also note that this heal can crit. So off-Berserk I can crit around 5k+ and around 7k+ with Berserk. Can repeat every 60s. So very OP and very useful. Along with Vengeance, Inner Beast, Thrill of Battle, Convalescence, and Raw Intuition - I have not been wanting for buffs or self heals.

 

That said... we haven't seen Alexander yet. But I have a feeling WARs won't be MTing that. That'll be relegated to Buffy McPaladins. So we'll be able to stance dance between full out DPS and Tank mode as needed in those fights. But from my experience in the new Lv60 dungeons, WAR is now all about the Self-Heal Tanking. You are absolutely right in that we just do not have the mitigation prowess of other tank classes. Our way to compete, especially with the new Raw Intuition and Equilibrium abilities is just to make ourselves as ridiculously easy to heal as possible.

 

Yeah, right now I'm just picking up rando gear upgrades, usually focusing on STR right-side. (Also, raw intuition is based off of Parry, so by ignoring that part on right-side we're not really helping that skill out but with Second Wind and Equilibrium it might be a fair trade)

 

Although I'm thinking out loud here - would the efficiency of STR stacking be mitigated by a full VIT build's just bonkers HP stat? Or does VIT not scale that well in the grand scheme of things?

[Sounsyy]

(Also, raw intuition is based off of Parry, so by ignoring that part on right-side we're not really helping that skill out but with Second Wind and Equilibrium it might be a fair trade)

 

The Parry portion of the skill is the less useful of Raw Intuition's uses. Sure, you can mitigate 20% of all incoming frontal attacks for 20s - which, don't get me wrong, works wonders against trash adds! But in my experience, once you start hitting end game, Parry isn't worth its salt. Most attacks can't, or won't get parried.

 

The amazing part of Raw Intuition is that it makes all incoming damage and heals 100% crit chance if cast from the flank or rear. Awareness nullifies the damage crits, leaving yourself open to receiving 100% crit heals from your healer. This can produce some amazing clutch heals. 5k Adlo crits, 7k Cure IIs, etc. As many crit heals as your healer can put out in 20s. Just gotta do some creative positioning for those situations where a healer can't get to your side or rear. If the boss/trash do a lot of frontal cones, angle yourself so your healer is at your 4 or 8 o'clock and they'll still get the bonus.

 

As beautiful as the numbers can be, it's a waste to couple this ability with Convalescence. They're already hitting you 100% crits, which means they can heal you from 1 HP to full in like two cures without extra healing potency, so save that Convalescence to use at another time when you're struggling for heals.

 

 

As for STR vs VIT, VIT will probably be just as viable in the long run as it was in 2.0. Viable, but not optimal. At lv50 i130 the difference in full VIT vs full STR came out to be 1957 HP. I'll do testing later with VIT gear to see just how great the difference is, but I don't foresee the HP differential being more than 3k between STR and VIT. So, again, the difference will come down to - will content require that additional 3k HP so you don't get one-shot in Alexander? Or (considering the abilities WAR just got) will a focus be put upon WARs needing massive self heals - in which case STR will be far superior. And just like the Parry stat, if you aren't MTing, that VIT is doing you no good. So STR still wins out in my mind for being able to have higher hitting self heals and more damage when in Defiance and Deliverance. VIT just offering a meager HP increase that may or may not prevent a WAR from being one-shot in Alexander.

[ArmachiA]

The tank classes' damage output is fine. Top-tier DPS can dish out something in the neighborhood of 1200+, where the tanks can't even break 900.

 

The fact that MCH and BRD can only hit about as hard as tanks only says they need a buff, not that tanks need a nerf.

 

Agreed. It says more about the state of MCH/BRD (My two main jobs *cries*) then it does tanks. Tanks having a viable DPS offspec is sort of a boon, considering how some raids didn't even require an offtank and we'd have our WAR also gear DRG just in case.

[Kellach Woods]

The amazing part of Raw Intuition is that it makes all incoming damage and heals 100% crit chance if cast from the flank or rear. Awareness nullifies the damage crits, leaving yourself open to receiving 100% crit heals from your healer. This can produce some amazing clutch heals. 5k Adlo crits, 7k Cure IIs, etc. As many crit heals as your healer can put out in 20s. Just gotta do some creative positioning for those situations where a healer can't get to your side or rear. If the boss/trash do a lot of frontal cones, angle yourself so your healer is at your 4 or 8 o'clock and they'll still get the bonus.

They really need to update their tooltips 'cause a lot of them are outright misleading. Raw Intuition specifies "attacks".