Mixed Feelings - HW, Lv 60, and Stuff

[Melodia]

So, I finished the MSQ and I loved it. Lots of great stuff.

 

But I find myself with mixed emotions of the game now, and I am wondering if I am alone or if other veteran MMO players can relate. I am happy I finished, but I took my time and in a way feel a bit left behind others. Not in a negative way, but in a "Damn....I feel slow" way. I hit 60 and in a way it was a bit underwhelming. Maybe it was the lack of reward. When we hit 50 we got a cool set of armor, could start that relic quest, etc. Here, we just got a new skill and literally told "Your item level isn't high enough so go buy some gear or farm this dungeon."  So I felt a bit like "Oh....that's all?" at the end. Am I wrong for that? Just feel a bit conflicted there.

 

And with Alexander and the law tomes....I sort of feel like this game has become a world where the hunting groups thrive and folks who tend to be casual like myself, really, in a Darwinian sense, struggle to keep up with the game itself. And it's made me less excited to log in. And I hate that feeling. Lol. So someone talk to me.....am I wrong? Is this normal? I just feel like I was happy and disappointed all at the same time as this doesn't feel like the game I've loved for the past year plus. HALLLP!

[Gegenji]

Well, we WILL be getting the nice set of gear and a relic to work on in the future for hitting 60. It's just not in the game yet. Just like we don't have /fistbump or the other new Recruit-a-Friend rewards yet either. It's all coming down the pipe, though, so the old standby of "look forward to it!" applies here.

 

Also, the hunt groups are just the ones who are going to be super-geared and even I'm pretty amazed by some of them (I saw one last week already in full i180 and the Ravana EX i190 sword and shield). I got Chachan to i170 (the level needed to enter Alexander) in a few days just by doing the daily Expert and Trial roulettes for the bonus Law and a couple accessory upgrades from doing the daily "beat this up" hunts a couple time. No actual serious grinding or A/S Hunting involved. It'll be even faster if you help out your friends on their first time through the level 60 stuff too.

 

So, I suppose, my best suggestion is to be patient - 50 had so much to do after the fact because so much was added after the fact. I don't think vanilla 2.0 50 had much to do at that point either, but I wasn't there for that. :blush:

[Chris Ganale]

Pretty well echoing Chachanji here. I've got Tahz at i173 right now with only two pieces being Valerian (holy shit, that word was in my auto-correct) instead of law and I only do daily roulettes. Half my stuff is upgraded because I've done the daily hunts nigh-religiously every day after I figured out they were a grand total of 110 seals a day plus some nice bonus xp pre-60.

 

Further, 3.0 may feel unfinished for those of us who started well after 2.0 launch and were spoiled by having all content immediately available to us. Relic weapons weren't available until 2.1, after all.

[Magellan]

I hear ya Mel. I haven't even touched HW, and I'm already feeling the burnout. I log on, feel like there's no way to feel that rewarding sense of accomplishment I so love, and go play other games.

 

It happened so fast too. One minute I was all 'lalalala I love ARR'. Then HW came and I was just 'meh.'

[-no longer matters-]

I've recently returned, I had to get myself to 50 (I was 42 on War Siren, and 46 in Nico) do all the ARR story content to go back to level 30 once I unlocked my preferred class, and Now I'm dungeon grinding to get back to 50 to do HW content.. but I am having a blast. 

 

I did play back in 2.0 (then quit, then came back in 2.1 - 2.2) then quit for Wildstar (regret that.) and now I'm back because they finally released my FFXI class of choice Dark Knight (a class I played and loved through good and bad times in XI and I'll do it here too!!). So I'm just thrilled to have my class back.

 

But that said maybe I'm still having fun because I had to progress, then go backwards to get back to where I was dunno.

[Vodka Tears]

Well, we WILL be getting the nice set of gear and a relic to work on in the future for hitting 60. It's just not in the game yet. Just like we don't have /fistbump or the other new Recruit-a-Friend rewards yet either. It's all coming down the pipe, though, so the old standby of "look forward to it!" applies here.

 

Also, the hunt groups are just the ones who are going to be super-geared and even I'm pretty amazed by some of them (I saw one last week already in full i180 and the Ravana EX i190 sword and shield). I got Chachan to i170 (the level needed to enter Alexander) in a few days just by doing the daily Expert and Trial roulettes for the bonus Law and a couple accessory upgrades from doing the daily "beat this up" hunts a couple time. No actual serious grinding or A/S Hunting involved. It'll be even faster if you help out your friends on their first time through the level 60 stuff too.

 

So, I suppose, my best suggestion is to be patient - 50 had so much to do after the fact because so much was added after the fact. I don't think vanilla 2.0 50 had much to do at that point either, but I wasn't there for that. :blush:

It had a little more. The relic quest was available, and you got your artifact armor. Coil was there, but it took a little while to grind tomes to be geared enough. Mythology tomes got you ilvl 90 gear, and until 2.1, you could only get 300 a week, so it was slow going. 

There's a little less in Heavensward, but at least roulettes let you grind more than just WP and AK @_@

[Tumensuns]

I think there should have been some job related starter outfit for lv60. You can buy ilvl150 white items from a vendor at Helix so you can actually queue for the lv60 dungeons but it doesn't feel as good as the first time hitting 50. I think they should have had some nice questline given after you finish your lv60 class quest that lets you unlock a starter outfit, unique to the class, so you have a better transition into experts and primals.

 

That said though, getting gear isn't as big of a slog as 2.0 was. I got to 179 with little effort. But I do agree that there is a huge disconnect between leveling to 60 and being 60.

[Gegenji]

You can buy ilvl150 white items from a vendor at Helix so you can actually queue for the lv60 dungeons

 

... I didn't know this was a thing. :surprise:

I seriously was running around in HQ 58 stuff and level 57/59 greens for what felt like AGES since the dungeons were not cooperating.

[Sin]

There is a little less than 2.0, no doubt. About one less primal, one less story dungeon, and the relic chain.

 

But the experience is mostly the same. Hit max level, hit max gear level, do max level content.

 

It's just the MMO formula.

 

I see where you're coming from on the lack of accomplishment, gear wise.

 

 

Still, I found accomplishment in actually hitting sixty and taking my time and enjoying every quest, and finishing the MSQ.

 

I imagine the game will feel a bit more complete with the second set of gear coming out with the new tomes.

[Aya]

I don't even have HW yet, so you're not slower than me!

[Aaron]

My only gripe is that mad ilvl gap from 145 to enter the last story mode dungeon to 170 for Alexander. 

 

I hate tome farming because dedicating almost half of to a full hour to dungeons each time for law is a pain in the ass. I got other shit to do lol.

 

Not really complaining though, so far im enjoying everything.

[Seriphyn]

Yeah, welcome to 2.0 for 2015.

[Lilia Lia]

I feel exactly this way.  I hit level 60 on Miner and Weaver, and it felt like... not much.  Until I get the Weaver tome I can't make the fancy gear, and even when I can, the materials are going to be almost as expensive as the finished product.  So it feels like I'm just chasing a huge gil sink.

 

Also I was pretty excited about the new job outfits and those are nowhere to be seen.  Pretty big let-down.

 

I also liked the story but it feels like there's no end-game yet.

[V'aleera]

The new job outfits should be coming in two weeks with Esoteric tomes/red scrips.

[Dat Oni]

I paid 50 bucks for this expansion, just for them to tell me Alexander and the new AF gear were not in the expansion, despite being part of the advertisements and even being selling points.

 

This is not a fucking kickstarter, Square. I paid for a finished game. I did not invest in a demo for a future release.

[Melkire]

I paid 50 bucks for this expansion, just for them to tell me Alexander and the new AF gear were not in the expansion, despite being part of the advertisements and even being selling points.

 

This is not a fucking kickstarter, Square. I paid for a finished game. I did not invest in a demo for a future release.

 

You paid for Heavensward, which is 3.x content a.k.a. 3.0 and everything that follows. Similar to how folks had to purchase ARR to enjoy 2.x a.k.a. 2.0 and onward.

 

I for one am pretty damned pleased with what we've gotten so far, and am looking forward to future patches. Only complaint here is glamor disparity between DoW and DoM. Healers and casters got screwed for choices again.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I paid 50 bucks for this expansion, just for them to tell me Alexander and the new AF gear were not in the expansion, despite being part of the advertisements and even being selling points.

 

This is not a fucking kickstarter, Square. I paid for a finished game. I did not invest in a demo for a future release.

 

Alexander has been out longer than 24 hours. SE also had said repeatedly it wasn't launching on 3.0. The exact same way that The Binding Coil of Bahamut did not launch when 2.0 launched. It came a few weeks after.

[Dat Oni]

A Realm Reborn/Heavensward did not advertise their game's content as having a portion that would be "added at a later date", though. Even the AAA industry has the courtesy to advertise its DLC before it screws us with it. 

 

They said, this is in your game, please look forward to it.

 

Hell, even the fucking benchmark showed us the content present in the game, the AF2 armor for the Dragoon is right there! You can almost taste it!

 

Did ARR advertise the Rogue class and Ninja job as a selling point? No. It was content they decided to tack on simply to improve the game, and that's commendable, for sure. But if they had advertised it, and it wasn't present at launch, how many people do you know who wouldn't have let out a collective sigh of existential disgust? Just add a "HAH-HAH" sound effect as the content is yoinked out of players' grasps at the last possible second and you're good to go.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm grateful for getting the stuff I did and did not expect. But I am furious for not getting the stuff that was promised to me when they said it would be.

 

When you advertise one thing, and you fail to deliver on those promises, that is called consumer fraud. And that is serious cause for concern. I don't care if they inevitably do what they promise, but if they say "it's in the game", it better be in the fucking game, or they are lying, plain and simple, black and white, clear as crystal. This is why on-disk DLC is such bullshit.

 

This is just the start of something ugly, you realize this? In fact, now that I think about it, false promises have been a thing in the game industry for a while, now, haven't they? Want an example?

 

Peter fucking Molyneux. He's the Fable guy, remember him? The guy who promised to move heaven and earth to make Fable the best player-choice driven game ever? The guy who failed to do any of that and then promised to move heaven and earth to make Fable II the best player-choice driven game ever while calling the previous a load of shit? Then kept this cycle going over and over?

 

 

 

 

And he didn't just do it with Fable. He raised expectations with his project, Godus, as well. And he failed.

 

He has been BSing his consumers with false promises for years, and it is that kind of behavior I just don't fucking tolerate in an industry where we have tragedy all the goddamn time (Just look at Arkham Knight's PC port and tell me that wasn't a train wreck). So imagine my surprise and inevitable disgust when I see the crippling birth pangs of repeat behavior in the development process for an MMO by one of my favorite developers of all time.

 

So far, the only distinction between the practices there and with this game is that promises are actually delivered on, but with technicalities. "Oh, you're going to have to wait a bit, I'm sorry!" Guh.

 

It's not as bad as it could be, yet, but why get their hands dirty to begin with? Just stop it, guys, there's no need. If it has to be added at a later date, surprise us with it after the launch in a later patch, but don't advertise it when the game is going to launch and it's not fucking ready! Then I cannot look forward to it.

 

/soapbox

[Edda]

This is not a fucking kickstarter, Square. I paid for a finished game. I did not invest in a demo for a future release.

Full Stop.

 

This is an MMORPG. No good MMO is ever "finished." Arguments like this do not apply to these types of games. You have been given plenty to do in the mean time before they release more content for you to blow your load on. Crystal Tower and FC Housing were huge marketing points for 2.0 and they did not come out until 2.1. Three months later, yes, but you didn't have to pay more for them. Endgame raids typically are released a few weeks later in order to give the average player ample time to be ready for these things - NOT because they are deliberately withholding content because the game is "unfinished." An MMO's main focus is on longevity and player retention rate: releasing everything at once would not only overwhelm most players, but those that manage to burn through it all would quickly lose interest and quit. This is how it always has been, and will be.

 

If this was Assassin's Creed 54 (or any Ubisoft title, really) or SimCity you might have a compelling argument, but not here.

 

EDIT:

A Realm Reborn/Heavensward did not advertise their game's content as having a portion that would be "added at a later date", though. Even the AAA industry has the courtesy to advertise its DLC before it screws us with it.

Yes, they did. They do it all the time. They did it before the game even launched, and they have been doing so since the game's release in the form of Live Letters. Hence the phrase: "Please look forward to it." Just to drive this point home, as I do not feel the need to pick through your entitlement post: Final Fantasy XIV is not, and will not be for a very long time, a finished game.

[Coatleque]

So someone talk to me.....am I wrong? Is this normal?

 

This is completely normal. It is the model that MMO's have been using since Everquest. Each expansion is a repeat of the same thing with just a little more story progression. When you break it down though, you're still just grinding levels followed by sets of gear that have +2 more stats than the last set.

[Verad]

If you feel that SE has committed consumer fraud, then this is a legitimate, actionable offense and you should contact the appropriate authorities.

 

Unless, of course, it's just hyperbole with no leg to stand on.

[111]

So someone talk to me.....am I wrong? Is this normal?

 

This is completely normal. It is the model that MMO's have been using since Everquest. Each expansion is a repeat of the same thing with just a little more story progression. When you break it down though, you're still just grinding levels followed by sets of gear that have +2 more stats than the last set.

 

Umm... this is totally wrong.

 

It's way more than +2, like +20.

 

Plz stop spreading misinformation.

[Dat Oni]

If you feel that SE has committed consumer fraud, then this is a legitimate, actionable offense and you should contact the appropriate authorities.

 

Unless, of course, it's just hyperbole with no leg to stand on.

 

Then what do you call it, Verad? Because I call it lying. And you don't lie to people who give you money.

 

Also, might I point out the guy roleplaying a dubious salesman of all people is commenting on my stance against this behavior? I just thought that was hilarious.

[Verad]

 

Then what do you call it, Verad? Because I call it lying. And you don't lie to people who give you money.

 

Also, might I point out the guy roleplaying a dubious salesman of all people is commenting on my stance against this behavior? I just thought that was hilarious.

 

Well, I call it a tantrum, but I think we're thinking about different things when we think of "it."

 

Edit: You know, maybe I'm confused. That does happen at my age. So please, explain this to me.

 

You paid the appropriate money for the expansion. You will receive the items promised in the expansion with a patch for which you will pay no extra money.

 

Where is the DLC? What extra money are you giving somebody on the promise that you won't get the AF2 armor otherwise? Do you mean your monthly subscription? Has it been gated behind the online store? Did a stranger wearing a shirt saying "I am Yoshi-P, Really," come to you and tell you this?

[Kage]

Then what do you call it, Verad? Because I call it lying. And you don't lie to people who give you money.

 

They've mentioned multiple times that a) Law will be granted at 3.0 uncapped. b) Alexander will be dropped approximately 2 weeks after the launch IN ORDER FOR PEOPLE TO ENJOY THE MAIN STORY QUEST AND TO AVOID PEOPLE MAKING PEOPLE FEEL FORCED INTO SKIPPING CUTSCENES and c) Alexander Savage will be dropped approximately 2 more weeks after story mode along with esoterics which will be on a weekly limit and lock.

 

From what I gather this is much better than the darklight/myth grind? I wasn't around for 2.0. Law drops into peoples' laps like crazy.

 

You have far more chance on calling it misleading by addressing the new jobs being locked behind the main story quest. They've never said that Alexander would be available at launch. They have definitely said that it will be released after launch.