4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed

[Warren Castille]

There's also a bit of a danger in suggesting that the only way one can be part of "the community" is to have "war stories" about content.

 

I don't recall seeing this brought up.

[Telluride]

There's also a bit of a danger in suggesting that the only way one can be part of "the community" is to have "war stories" about content.

 

I don't recall seeing this brought up.

 

These are the words I'm reacting to (emphases mine):

 

"I'm having trouble articulating what I mean exactly, but removing the obstacles to reaching X point feels like it removes part of the bond between players. Everyone from 2.0 launch has war stories from Titan HM. Most folks who care about the story came away from 2.55 with powerful emotions regarding the climax. Removing those things from the prerequisites satisfies in the short-term, in my opinion. It means the strangers I'm playing with might truly be strangers, and there would be fewer things that we experienced together-yet-separately to try and draw common ground."

 

and...

 

"This community can be stand-offish enough without there being less we all have in common. Then again, maybe I come at this with my own biases. I never understood the "I don't want to play the game" mentality. I didn't have a problem with Ishgard being locked behind content. I don't have a problem with lore cementing jobs in specific places. It just gives me something to strive towards, which to me is the entire point of gear-treadmill games."

 

The point of discussion, if I understand you, is that you feel we lose something from The Community if we've not all gone through certain content, and have shared skills/achievements/solutions from going through all the same stuff.

 

It strikes me as kind of like comparing driving with a stick shift to driving with an automatic transmission, maybe. One is harder than the other, and actually can build and require more skills and practice, but such aren't a requirement to enjoy a drive, and in the end, we're all on the same road.

 

I know that some hate the idea of a player base having too much control/influence over a game's development My own bias, to be fair, is that while I can see this point, I also see the inevitable "Get Gud, Nub, or Get Out" responses to other player issues/wants. While yes, a good game SHOULD have a clarity of vision and its own demands, and there is a point where certain players just might find a better time elsewhere, relying too much on this idea that player complaints and wanting a few shortcuts here and there over time are inherently bad things is just as much a recipe for disaster. C.F: Wildstar.

 

I am not trying to be terribly confrontational about the subject, but I also hold as a truism that a decision isn't a good one JUST because a dev makes it, nor that getting inured and used to to certain things in a game is the same as ENJOYING them.

 

Even the best works can benefit from a bit of tweaking over time, and not every challenge is good JUST because it is a challenge.

[Syf]

Maybe I could offer some insight into this thread. I purchased FFXIV and the Heavensward expansion about two weeks ago, looking forward to trying out the job of Dark Knight. I did a little research and found that I needed level 30 in any class in order to play the new jobs offered. But as I reached that milestone, I found out that I would not only have to reach level 50 in order to access Ishgard, I would also need to finish all the story quests from patch 2.0 to 3.0.

 

The total time it took me to finish all the quests was around 120 hours. I know that a lot of these quests were given buffed rewards to smooth out the process, but it's still a long time to ask a person to invest for content that they want to experience. Whether it is a certain job or just relevant PvE content or access to new zones, it's a ludicrous amount of time for a person to invest in. If I had leveled as dps, or if I didn't have this much free time, it could have taken me more than a month and a half of just pure story progression to reach Heavensward content. I don't hate gated content in general, but this enormous gate just made me anxious to rush through stuff that the developers most likely wanted you to savor and enjoy over several months. I did not enjoy most of the story content, the characters didn't get fleshed out enough, and the nature of your character is just to *nod* and do the hard work.

 

I'm glad 4.0 will not need 3.0 to be completed. If I ever want to roll an alt or quit for extended period of time, I won't have to rush myself through quests and content in order to play a new job or do dungeons with my friends.

[Warren Castille]

Fair, but at no point did I say these things were the ONLY way. If your take on Titan HM was "Shit sucks, I got sick of the pressure/the pugs/the whatever and didn't bother" you'd probably still get a large amount of people agreeing with you. Even if you tried content, hated it and never went back, that still gives something to build on or discuss. Not that anyone really chats up DF groups, really.

 

I admit to my own biases regarding this stuff; That's easy because I know what I want and get out of playing MMOs. I don't comprehend the argument to have access without having done anything for it, but that might just be the old guard reflexes and instincts acting up.

 

I'm still curious how many new players have issue with the content being a gate, though. Large majority of the discussion is centered on alts, or friends of currently-finished players. It's hard to dig out the motivations or thoughts of a truly-new person that comes into the game without knowing anyone or anything about it.

 

...might be time to start blowing up introduction threads with a questionnaire. For science.

 

Edit: Heh.

[Aedan Marceaux]

http://www.mmospotlight.com/final-fantasy-verges-on-exceeding-current-number-of-wow-users/

 

Posted for some relevance to the slightly off topic topic.

[Caspar]

The horizontal expansion Is a good idea however as I like the idea of greater gear diversity. I'd like the level cap increased, but it would be more fun to mess with the weight of secondary stats so that specs emerge, which is something I think FFXIV lacks.

[Oli!]

http://www.mmospotlight.com/final-fantasy-verges-on-exceeding-current-number-of-wow-users/

 

Posted for some relevance to the slightly off topic topic.

 

WoW has 5.2 million people paying to use their service.

 

XIV has 5 million people signed up to use their service. No word on how many people are actively paying.

 

To my knowledge, Square Enix has not released those statistics, so we won't have a comparison of any sort until they do.

 

To drive the point home, here are some way lower numbers.

 

But we're off-topic again.

[V'aleera]

I would agree that gating new jobs behind the MSQ is a poor decision; as one of the premier selling points of an expansion used in large part to draw in more of an audience these should be made much more easily available.

[Kage]

I would say that new Jobs/Races should not be gated by doing ALL of 2.0 MSQ -or- like in the case of jobs at 50 require the early level 20 something MSQ quest. However, I do not think it is horrible to lock the next parts of MSQ behind... doing MSQ. Or if the areas are locked by MSQ, locking it.

 

I remember that you can take a low level character all the way from a starter area such as Uldah all the way to Coerthas or Mor Dhona. Lock flying to flying but if they can ride a chocobo or be protected while running, cool.

[Telluride]

We had a whole thread dedicated to speculation about the new jobs before, and as I recall, the consensus was that it would make sense for the new jobs to have been unlockable in Coerthas rather than simply in Ishgard, since they have to start at level 30, anyway.

 

And as Kage suggested, it is indeed possible to take a new character from either Gridania or Uldah to Mor Dhona via Coerthas (In Limsa, the ferry is gated, and you have to unlock the Airship to be able to travel from the Island). I've done it three times myself.