4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed

[Seriphyn]

This was dropped during the anniversary livestream I think. I wonder then, what this might imply for the rest of the MSQ and how 4.0 will be executed?

 

Let's assume it is Ala Mhigo for 4.0. Does this mean it'll be a completely self-contained story that doesn't continue from 2.x or 3.x? 

 

I'm curious as to those of you who have played other MMOs (like WoW) and their expansions will have to say.

[Steel Wolf]

Wild assumption power....MAKE UP!!

 

*transformation sequence*

 

So this leads me to believe that perhaps the Ascian threat will be crushed come 4.0, or at least significantly weakened to the point that continuity won't matter and 4.x begins a new series of stories and trials for the WoL.

 

Or they just heard people unhappy with the giant leveling gate and are designing to accommodate as many players as possible.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

My guess is that it's still going to require 2.0 cleared, but perhaps not 2.X content.

 

Likely, it either doesn't require Ishgard's involvement, or it's SE trying to accommodate all the people who complained about having to play the game (clear 2.55) to play the game (3.0 MSQ) and don't want to have to play the game (3.X content) to play the game (4.0 content). ...which would make it MUCH more alt-friendly, but would do quite a disservice to people who might feel tempted to powerlevel and not engage in the story.

[Chris Ganale]

I thought I heard it said they would require 2.0 but not 3.0 for it? I dunno I didn't actually watch it and get all my information second-hand.

[Virella]

I can understand the decision though of SE, especially because gamers these days are not like they use to be. These days we whine about having to catch up after all, and for the newer playerbase it will be dealbreaker whether they get the game or not. That said I'd imagine they will conjurer up a good enough reason for 4.0 not needing 3.0, doubt Ishgard wouldn't have a part in it though, especially with the MQS ending, and if Ala Mhigo is indeed a part of the next expansion!

[Blue]

They did not say 4.0 would not continue 3.x's story. Only that they felt they might just not make 3.x completion a requirement, and instead offer a "summary" of it for those who might not wish to get the expansion (which should be something OPTIONAL in a game). They admitted that 2.55 + 3.x completion would be too insane of a gate for accessing an expansion's areas and jobs.

 

Which, I wish they had realized from the beginning >.> *glares at all the alts who can't access Ishgard yet*

 

Though, if there was a good thing FFXI did, that was offering new unique storylines at each expansion, and I would be happy to see XIV do the same.

[Sounsyy]

I think they simply meant that "4.0" would not be gated via end of 3.x content? So you'd just have to complete 2.55 to access the 3.0 and 4.0 expansions individually. Instead of having to clear 2.55 AND 3.xx. Which would be one helluva grind for any alts/new players that get brought in because of 4.0.

 

 

But, as long as we're theorycrafting what 4.0 would be about... I'm personally of a mind that they'll follow FFXI's expansion pattern with Sky and Sea. So if 3.0 was "Sky" then 4.0 would be "Sea." Personally, I think they'll continue on with Limsa Lominsa's storyline that never was resolved from 2.2 and even further back in 1.0. Limsa Lominsa also has open trade with the other continents, so content for that expansion could include us going to the other continents and each continent would be home to one new job/class.

 

For example, we could go to Thavnair/Othard by boat and unlock, idk, Samurai? Just an example, nobody freak out. Then we could go south to Meracydia, find the Miqo'te homelands, and unlock Blue Mage (why blue mage? three words: Miqo'te totem animals). West to the New World and help out Limsa Lominsa's trade colony with the Mamool Ja. New class on western continent would be Dancer... because... y'know... they never let you see that infamous Mamool Ja gyrating dance.

 

This could also unlock FC Boats... since FC airships were a thing. I'm spitballing, but I think all this sounds whacky enough that SE might have already thought about it?

[Edda]

For example, we could go to Thavnair/Othard by boat and unlock, idk, Samurai? Just an example, nobody freak out. Then we could go south to Meracydia, find the Miqo'te homelands, and unlock Blue Mage (why blue mage? three words: Miqo'te totem animals). West to the New World and help out Limsa Lominsa's trade colony with the Mamool Ja. New class on western continent would be Dancer... because... y'know... they never let you see that infamous Mamool Ja gyrating dance.

 

This could also unlock FC Boats... since FC airships were a thing. I'm spitballing, but I think all this sounds whacky enough that SE might have already thought about it?

Stop speaking so sweetly, Sounsyy. You're going to get everyone's hopes up. What are you going to say next, Levi and Ramuh egis for 4.0? Swimming? A lay down emote? Preposterous. If 3.xx content is not required for 4.0, as rumor has it, we should all prepare our butts for no new zones and some stupid, made up Job, like... Ringmaster.

 

Mostly I'm just kidding though. But I do have to wonder how they will handle such a thing. Obviously the MSQ won't be going away for returning players. Are they going to put up a little disclaimer on those quests for those who haven't moved on to 4.0 content and haven't heard the good news? "By the way you can skip this shit." Something like that.

[Harmonixer]

I stepped out of my coffin long enough to show my surprise too.

 

I was just looking at http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Parivir

 

and wondered if we won't get 'traditional' Samurai and get the mix, like these fellows sort of are.

 

That's pretty cool. I'd really love to see that Dancers are a TP based healer.

 

I'm mostly inclined to agree with what Sounsyy on this. Or at least that what I would like it to be.

[Blue]

I'm pretty sure Yoshida said in an interview that Ala Mhigo would be next (he was questioned about the Ala Mhigo artwork that could be found in the art books). As for the "theme" of the expansion... I know SE was initially "undecided between swimming and flying, but decided to go with flying first", so swimming could be the potential next theme.

 

If not, I think climbing could also be a pretty cool new action to let us perform.

[Aduu Avagnar]

I would have thought they would open up and resolve the rest of unexplored Eorzea before taking us to a new location.

[Flickering Ember]

 but would do quite a disservice to people who might feel tempted to powerlevel and not engage in the story.

 

I can understand the decision though of SE, especially because gamers these days are not like they use to be. These days we whine about having to catch up after all, and for the newer playerbase it will be dealbreaker whether they get the game or not. That said I'd imagine they will conjurer up a good enough reason for 4.0 not needing 3.0, doubt Ishgard wouldn't have a part in it though, especially with the MQS ending, and if Ala Mhigo is indeed a part of the next expansion!

 

 

I visit the official Final Fantasy forums too and I've seen a lot of defense towards needing ARR content finished to get to HW. I have to say, I strongly disagree with having this gated content and do not understand why fans are defending SE's decision on this. Most of the justification I have seen is that FFXIV is a story heavy game.

 

Here's where my opinion becomes an unpopular one though. Not everyone cares about the story. There's plenty to do and enjoy without any of the story in this game. So I would have to disagree with it being "story-centric." TOR is what I would call a "story-centric" MMO. I really could not stand ANY of the story pre-2.1. I do quite like 2.1-2.55 and 3.0 MSQ but I would not call it 'amazing.' A serious detractor for me personally is that the Scions are the main characters of the story and I find them to be extremely unlikeable. (Here's hoping we get some major development for ALL the scions, much like Alphinaud)

 

But mostly, I don't see what groaning about people complaining about the gated content accomplishes. (not actually specifically mentioning you two here, but this has been an extremely common sentiment in general ever since HW launched) The important thing is that with the gated content, Heavensward is not accessible. The less something is accessible, the less people will be able to achieve this content.  Bioware is known and beloved for its story-focused RPGs but even its story-centric content is accessible.  Its Mass Effect and Dragon Ages are able to be jumped into at any installment. Even the Dragon Age: Origins expansion can be played as a stand alone campaign. 

 

Bioware does this because if they didn't, they would lose money. Similarly, requiring 2.55 for 3.0 content (All content I might add, not just story content) was not a wise move. They without a doubt lost money over this decision. These companies have lots and lots of statistics at their disposal. I believe Bioware did research that showed only a small fraction of the owners of one of their games had actually beaten it. Even though the game had sold well. 

 

A lot of players just want to start fresh too. It doesn't mean that they aren't interested in the story but they don't want to have to do old content in order to do that. While it wouldn't stop me from playing the game if I was in their shoes, it can get seriously lonely when all your friends have moved on without you and you're still stuck on the last expansion's content. 

 

 

TL;DR Stop defending gated content. It does not help SE make money; it does the opposite. I know I'd like for them to be more successful so they can make more content.

[SM Nick]

I love that they are allowing 4.0 content to be accessed without needing 3.0's completion.

 

I just personally feel that they should only gate the MSQ, so for those that enjoy the story can enjoy the story. The rest of the content can already be unlocked and doesn't need 3.x's completion.

 

You guys agree?

[LiadansWhisper]

I'm guessing that 4.0 will still be a continuation of 3.0, and if you haven't completed 3.0, it's gonna be a bit confusing/less meaningful.  However, there ARE players who do not play this game for the story, and they were pretty upset that they HAD to do the story to get to 60 to do what they actually wanted to do.  So, I think SE is just trying to please everyone.

[Kellach Woods]

did someone actually drop a "gamers today suck compared to yesteryear?" argument here?

[Unnamed Mercenary]

did someone actually drop a "gamers today suck compared to yesteryear?" argument here?

 

Not sure, but if we judge feedback by the official forums, gamers today certainly whine about things much more than in previous years. Perhaps due to how saturated in social media the average person on the internet is.

[LiadansWhisper]

I can understand the decision though of SE, especially because gamers these days are not like they use to be. These days we whine about having to catch up after all, and for the newer playerbase it will be dealbreaker whether they get the game or not. That said I'd imagine they will conjurer up a good enough reason for 4.0 not needing 3.0, doubt Ishgard wouldn't have a part in it though, especially with the MQS ending, and if Ala Mhigo is indeed a part of the next expansion!

 

I don't think this is fair.  Roleplayers, by nature, tend to be very story-focused, but we are a tiny, tiny minority of overall players.  Many PvE-focused players honestly don't care about the story. They care about their PvE endgame and they get frustrated when there are arbitrary, artificial blocks put into place to prevent them from getting there in the most efficient manner possible.

 

But if you think that gamers today "whine more" than gamers of yesteryear, I'm going to have to disagree with you.  I've been roleplaying and playing various videogames for well over a decade now, and I promise you that gamers were bitching and moaning up a storm every bit as loud when I started many moons ago.

[Geldnar Hothbane]

well i think they might want you to do all of 3.0 before the 4.0 content can be accessed. but I am just guessing about that.

[LiadansWhisper]

I think they are going to do what they did before clear the entire 3.0 MSQ before you progress to the new content.

 

Except during the live stream, they indicated that this will not be the case, and the new content will not be gated behind Heavensward content.

[Flickering Ember]

did someone actually drop a "gamers today suck compared to yesteryear?" argument here?

 

Not sure, but if we judge feedback by the official forums, gamers today certainly whine about things much more than in previous years. Perhaps due to how saturated in social media the average person on the internet is.

 

But if you think that gamers today "whine more" than gamers of yesteryear, I'm going to have to disagree with you.  I've been roleplaying and playing various videogames for well over a decade now, and I promise you that gamers were bitching and moaning up a storm every bit as loud when I started many moons ago.

 

 

The only thing I'm taking away from this off topic line of discussion is how people really seem to hate change. But yeah, this is really off topic.

 

The good ol' days of gaming are not as good as people think. Unless we're talking about time periods filled with war, sickness, and depression, there aren't really any "good ol' days." Time periods are just good and bad in different ways.

 

I don't see how it would detract from one's fun for others to be able to ignore old content. They get to do their own thing, you get to do your own thing. Maybe that whining was warranted, huh?

[Sylentmana]

The MSQ doesn't necessarily have to be ending. It just means that the new areas will be open to everyone (though there may be some difficulty for those whose levels aren't high enough). People who haven't done the MSQs could probably go into the new areas and do side quests and such, but the MSQs will only pop up for those who have continued to progress the story.

 

While this sounds like SE is trying to accommodate all players, there is still the issue of new dungeons and trials. Those are often gated behind MSQs so some content will likely be unavailable to those who skip it. Either way, expect lots of complaining. Its a time honored tradition from before video games even existed.

[Gegenji]

The big thing for me is hoping that any new classes brought in for 4.0 will also be similarly "not blocked." That was a bit of personal point of contention for me (even if a bit of a moot point since I had all three characters to 50 on SOMETHING combat-related), and while I'll likely have all three characters also caught up on everything by the time 4.0 drops... it'd be nice to see less hoops to be jumped through for everyone to try out whatever shiny new jobs are put out there. Especially considering how much work would have to be done if not.

[Telluride]

I can only cheer for anything that removes gating, and if 4.0 does this, I'm all for it.

 

Right now, I have only my main able to get into Heavensward; the two lvl50 alts I have were left off at the end of 2.0, because I didn't want to do the same story content all over again because, quite frankly, (and as some people are likely tired of hearing me say), I find SE's vaunted story to be too often terrible and ridiculous, and frankly, completely deserving of ridicule in some points. I love FFXIV for its gameplay, and flexibility, and for the great Balmung community, but SE's story writers could all be sucked into the void and I'd only offer up a little cheer reminiscent of that lauding the fate of Robin's Minstrels in Monty Python and The Holy Grail.

 

I'd love to bring a couple of more alts into Ishgard for the RP possibilities, but nope, I gotta drag each one through some of the most annoying parts of the game to have that right.

 

As far as people complaining, you can say it's time honored, true, but I also believe that it's also possibly a reaction to everything else that FFXIV gets RIGHT, and people wishing that the remaining aspects of the game could be just as satisfying. The fact that this game exists and has an expansion is a testament to the idea that things CAN be fixed, made better, improved, and rebuilt successfully. Maybe I'd just like that applied to the story.

 

I think gating is fine for some content - raids and difficult dungeons, surely, to ensure that people who get to them have some level of competency in their classes. That is COMPLETELY fair and equitable. But to gate a game's story, and thereby gate an entire new and massive area of the map behind a series of annoyances AFTER completing them once, is a poor design choice, to me, and one that's particularly annoying when the new content is something I have to play extra for, above and beyond the cost of the original game and the subscription.

[Ignacius]

They could just run a sync on all areas.  So that walking into the first zone of 4.0 syncs you to 52 if you weren't there already, then the next, 54, und so wieder.  That way, if you didn't do Heavensward, you can play whatever unrelated story is theoretically in 4.0 and level 50-60 without ever touching Heavensward, but also those who played it aren't running train over the zone as level 60s.

[Virella]

I can understand the decision though of SE, especially because gamers these days are not like they use to be. These days we whine about having to catch up after all, and for the newer playerbase it will be dealbreaker whether they get the game or not. That said I'd imagine they will conjurer up a good enough reason for 4.0 not needing 3.0, doubt Ishgard wouldn't have a part in it though, especially with the MQS ending, and if Ala Mhigo is indeed a part of the next expansion!

 

I don't think this is fair.  Roleplayers, by nature, tend to be very story-focused, but we are a tiny, tiny minority of overall players.  Many PvE-focused players honestly don't care about the story. They care about their PvE endgame and they get frustrated when there are arbitrary, artificial blocks put into place to prevent them from getting there in the most efficient manner possible.

 

But if you think that gamers today "whine more" than gamers of yesteryear, I'm going to have to disagree with you.  I've been roleplaying and playing various videogames for well over a decade now, and I promise you that gamers were bitching and moaning up a storm every bit as loud when I started many moons ago.

 

I come from a completely different setting than most MMO players here, PvP one, not roleplay, not PvE one.

 

If you made a new character, or hell, made a PvE char who you wanted decked out for PvP, holy fucking shit, you only did this as a status symbol. You KNEW you had to run said character trough all content, you KNEW you had dish out lots of shekles to get proper gear, and hell, if you were mad enough, you would get the most fanciest armor and weapons as well, who costed a lot of gold as well. Even having the SHOES of the armor set what considered a damn status symbol.

 

No one was whining about it, and if they did? Everyone would call you a whining little bitch, and told you to suck it up and don't use PvE characters any more if you couldn't be arsed to deck them out with maxed out gear, skills and unlocked content. Because of you didn't? Holy sheet, you were fucking over your PvP team by lacking maxed out stats, or even worse, skills. You made your PvE characters for the epeen status, and you were simply required to go unlock shit, and you simply sucked it up, and just did it instead.

 

Mindsets are completely different these days, people just expect it to be thrown at them compared to when gaming wasn't the mainstream shit.That said, PvP background, not PvE, not RP, people are very, very different there. Surely, I am not going to whine if they change the gating, but for now I just know if I make an alt, and I got two hopping around 50, I simply know I will have to go chew through the 3.0 content if I want them to 60 (Well I can dungeon grind low level shit with roulettes but...). It's a thing they are not going to change, so I am not going to complain about it. Same if I picked up another MMO later then the playerbase, I would be excited to catch up, not whine about it. I started FFXIV later than most, and I simply enjoyed catching up. I didn't give a fuck about the story pre-50, I enjoyed the game mechanics, the dungeons and most of all, the community. I saw no reason to pull out my whining card, but simply dealt with being behind most because the game was fun.

 

BUT

 

AS I SAID AND PEOPLE ARE OVERLOOKING IT

 

ITS NOT A BAD THING IT GETS REMOVED DUE TO THIS CHANGE OF MINDSET. PEOPLE HAVE CHANGED OVER THE YEARS, GAMING IS MORE OPEN. THE MORE PLAYERS THE BETTER IN THE END.

 

Learn to read, stop nitpicking. Trying to say that people are exactly the same as they used to be is nonsense. Its not better, its not worse, it is different mindsets of the average gamer, because things have become so mainstream.

 

 

and for the newer playerbase it will be dealbreaker whether they get the game or not.