Death, Killing & You

[Sev]

I find death, stress and the act of killing another areoften overlooked in writing and roleplaying in general, especially the long-term effects it can have on the mind. Killing in particular.

 

I feel that we are somewhat desensitised to killing asroleplayers due to the medium most of us here use, where it is indeed a game which rewards us for killing mindless AI over and over, however should Hydaelyn be a living, breathing world as seen through the eyes of our characters, things would be much different when mindless NPC becomes a living person with their own needs, goals and fears.

 

Killing another being is a hell of a thing, even in a worldwhere death is commonplace. Using now not-so-random NPC as an example in death, our characters take away all they ever were and ever will be, often seeing the looks on their faces and in their eyes whilst doing so owing to the often up close and personal combat of the setting.

 

To most that is bound to have some kind of effect as veryfew people are capable of killing another being and forgetting about it the next day as if nothing ever happened, even the most justified & lawful Paladin-type.

 

 

So, this is all a very roundabout way of asking a question –how do your characters deal with death & killing? How does it weigh on or effect the individual, if at all? Have they ever lost someone who left some type of impact on them be it big or small, and how has it influenced them?

[Aaron]

Aaron doesn't kill for the most part, he despises the act greatly. Although recently he has killed several people and rather messily at that. Just ask his old FC. But this is rare, like EXTREMELY RARE.

 

For the most part, he will refuse to kill anyone no matter how bad they are, but he has no qualms with wounding them in self defense. If on a job he will often rely on his accomplice to actually do the killing, otherwise he'd only wound the person enough to where they have a chance to survive. He views killing, and especially those psycho people that go out their way to try and kill or maim people in low regard, Thinking they only do that to try and be cool or imposing. It's why at grindstone when he's clearly trying not to hurt his opponent and they steady try and cut him up like Jack the ripper he looks at them like are you /serious/? You can beat me without drawing blood you know? Lol.

 

In short, Aaron's a softie, despite the brigades sword he carries you'd think is used to bisect people like butter.

[Coatleque]

Even as a Sultansworn, Crofte had not killed anyone until a few months ago. She had always maintained a 'bring them in alive' approach, choosing to debilitate rather than play justicar.

 

She was forced to kill an attacker while performing a favor for the man she loved. When it was clear he would not relent in trying to take or kill her ward, she killed him with his own sword. For the next few days all she could smell was blood.

 

Seems she's hung up her sword now. Or at least that's what she's telling everyone...

[Faye]

I'm not sure it's intentionally overlooked so much as a lot of role-players use mindless killing as a mark of how edgy and dark their characters are. While death and killing certainly always take a toll on someone's psyche, it's also important to remember that Hydaelyn's a war-torn world and Eorzea has its fair share or problems. Death isn't uncommon in this setting

 

But! I digress. Faye's killed a few people, mostly in self-defense. While it was pretty traumatic for her, she grew up a healer and had already lost her family at that point, so death and injury wasn't foreign to her. She mostly just pushed it to the back of her mind. But two deaths have taken a toll on her. First, her brother's. It wasn't in any way by her hands, but she considers herself responsible. She's become fixated on it and her primary motivation now is to do whatever she can to honor his memory.

 

Second, her father's death by her own hand. It was technically in self-defense, but she'd planned/wanted to kill him, regardless. Despite it being something she'd wanted desperately, she found herself pretty torn up about killing her own family member and it brought her no closure. She's pretty hesitant to kill anyone now, after that experience.

[Aya]

Violence is a much more common aspect of life in Eorzea than it is in the modern world. Life's value simply isn't held as high: many people have most likely lost family and friends from any number of causes ranging from disease and starvation especially in the wake of the calamity), to violence and war.

 

Adventurer's especially live on that cutting edge. That doesn't mean that their hardening has no effect upon them, or that the act itself should be taken lightly.

 

My own observation to contribute is that PCs often do not bat an eye, whatsoever, at the mass slaughter of nameless faceless NPCs. They'll obliterate any number of guards, soldiers, bandits, and so on without a second thought (and while happily basking in the glory). But the moment one of those NPCs has a face, a name, and a sentiment that is not pure hostility, then suddenly the awful face of death's reality stares them directly in the eye.

 

As a personal note, the issue definitely is relevant to Aya in a number of ways.

[Zelmanov]

I have to echo what others have said in so far on the idea that Eorzea is filled with death left and right, though primarily it is death via sickness and monsters more so than another human being. 

Killing a toad, killing a beastman even, would probably not hang heavy on the minds of a lot of people.  

 

Now another human being? I see no reason as to why it'd be any less of an impact in comparison to real life. Even career soldiers grapple with PTSD and guilt of ending the life of another despite the fact that the enemy may be actively trying to kill them. 

 

Now the thing is, people deal with it in different ways. Some dehumanize the enemy, become numb to it, some hide behind righteousness or the fact they had no choice. 

 

Orrin is an Ishgardian Dragoon, not only is his enemy commonly non human but he comes from a place that extols the righteousness of combat. It is currently an exploration in his character for me thanks to Heavensward tossing things on their head. 

He has killed a good deal of NPC characters as part of plot lines but he generally goes by what'd be considered an inquisitorial approach. An enemy is much more useful alive to give information than it is to slaughter them outright. 

 

He does not fall into what I consider to be the stupid stupid moral posturing where he chainsaws through a mob of mooks and then spares the main bad guy because it is "wrong to kill" He may keep him alive because he may be more useful that way.

 

More over, he has his past demons as well. I just feel a lot of the exploration on the act of killing is a very much personal, character driven thing that is good to read in a novel where you can be alone with the character's thoughts. In a collaborative rp setting however, it may just sound like a call for attention that just bogs down the pace of an RP.

[Edelirium]

Naoh doesn't like killing. Her favoured spell is a Sleep spell simply because it allows her to harmlessly subdue an aggressor and take her leave while they're out cold. In her line of work, though, death is something that needs to happen, more often than not. She'd not let any harm come to her or those she defends.

 

When push comes to shove, though, she's not bothered by it, specifically. She's bothered by needless loss of life. When she feels someone deserves it, well, there's no issue then. It's easy for her to absolve herself of guilt simply by thinking that they've got it coming. After all, then she's doing the world a favour.

 

Right?

[DrDucker]

my character is just edgy and dark

 

gosh okay?

 

killing really has a different impact based one the society you come from - and lets be honest, Eorzea is a terrible, terrible place. where people were fed to the Primals so the Company of Heroes, while fighting, could remain untainted

 

with all that though, i agree there is long term effects that should be present in character development with characters that kill - but i don't see it as something that must be all encompassing - just vague and warping

 

to answer the question though, my character is a monster - more or less built to be an antagonist. death effects him as the ultimate test - your alive if you're doing it right, dead if your not - the arrogance angle for me

[Jana]

Jana's definitely someone who's let herself be twisted by her role in killing to the point where she's disappointed if she has to leave a useless enemy (i.e. one who can't provide information or something) alive. Sometimes I worry that she's just going to look "edgy" to an outside observer or an RPer meeting her for the first time, though.

[Branson Thorne]

Mmmmm, to me, this question only makes sense if you are playing an NPC type character.

I highly doubt the vikings, pirates, and medieval soldiers had much issue with killing another.

 

To me, an adventure type character would be very similar to those types and not much care about taking a life.

[Warren Castille]

The "death is around us anyway" logic doesn't really jive in my opinion. I mean, on one hand I get it: In this world it's kill or be killed. But doesn't then lend an extremely selfish attitude towards the people we're sharing the world with? I've seen people playing heroic character archetypes that are just completely fine with murdering anyone who stands in the way of their idealism, and it doesn't really come across as the begrudging hero sort, it's just murder because I'm the Good Guy and you're the Bad Guy.

 

It's ultimately up to the individual writer how they want to tackle the issue, but I'm inclined to agree with the original post. There's a casual attitude or half-reasoned justification for why we're allowed to play kind, genial, merciless killing machines.

[Sylastair]

Mmmmm, to me, this question only makes sense if you are playing an NPC type character.

I highly doubt the vikings, pirates, and medieval soldiers had much issue with killing another.

 

To me, an adventure type character would be very similar to those types and not much care about taking a life.

I think this is where the disconnect actually is. I don't think many people took issue with killing (in the sense they would pause or have a hard time making themselves) but that doesn't mean all the killing they have done and continue to do won't or hasn't affected them. They've more than likely been desensitized to everything that comes with the act of killing, somehow rationalizing what it is they did or do as not being done to a 'real' person. The thing is getting to this place changes someone, it would change how they talk, how they treat other people, maybe even how they views those closest to them. 

 

The issue that tends to irk me is you see characters who display a moral, compassionate side, then kill a dozen or so people and come back like what just happened was another day at the office. Killing changes people, so when I see 'good' characters murder people by the boatload then show no signs of remorse or even guilt it tends to feel disingenuous.

[Kodie]

The first person Kodie killed was of course in apart of his origins, he was of scarred by it emotionally as he spent a few weeks unable to sleep, but as he did it again, he noticed the after effects didn't last as long as the first person he killed, and eventually that feeling of regret faded away with each person he killed. He acknowledges killing isn't right, and has a feeling that he'll have to answer for those deaths in some form of after life, which is why he makes sure someone like his girlfriend doesn't kill anyone, he'll go for the killing blow if needed. He knows that feeling is something he wouldn't wish on anyone.

[Warren Castille]

To properly answer the OP's question at the end, Warren kind of hates every time he feels the only way out of a situation is violence. He crossed a major line some years ago in the face of losing people he loved, and the reality of it shook a lot of his belief in himself and scared him quite a bit. There was another situation where he was stuck in cramped quarters with a lot of people all trying to kill each other and he killed someone there, too, and no matter how he tries to justify it he knows it was really just murder. It's been a long while since then but he's still not sure if he's a good person or if he's just got a lack of reasons to be unhinged.

 

The only "benefit" that he drew from this is that he learned the lengths he'd be willing to go for people he cares for, even if that length is terrible, horrible, no good very bad awful.

[Askier]

I suppose I am one of 'those' rpers that the OP mentioned. Ya know, the one who axes off npcs like its nothing.  Both of my main characters of the past two years were, well, in the end, not wonderful people. 

 

Askier was a bit more complicated.  He'd happily kill anyone for a fee, unless he let them get close to him. And this resulted in a horrible fear of letting people get close in case he had to hurt them ever, which happened a few times.  But I wrote him butchering numerous npcs for coin but he had long since stopped thinking morality existed in the world; so he found his mechanism for dealing.

 

As for my...other...killer, Jin'li

 

Well for him, killing was as easy as breathing. To my knowledge, he's only one of a handful of pc characters to commit genocide and has actually killed several PC's off.  It never once bothered him.

 

There are people who can kill and not have it affect them.  And they don't have to be psychopaths in any way. To say that its weird to meet someone who kills and is normal after is wrong, isn't fair.  If you have ever met a soldier or a navy SEAL, they are often VERY normal people who talk about games and football, yet, their ENTIRE job is to kill.  They have found a way to internalize and continue living.

 

When you consider that most characters are only one step above being mercenaries, who kill for coin, is it really that surprising to meet people who basically paint cities red and then go home to their families?

[ExAtomos]

Now that I think about it, killing other things has a huge impact on all of my characters (even the not-so-nice ones). Would say that it's featured in all of their stories, really.

 

Game PvE is set aside of course.

 

Now that I'm on Balmung and actively RPing with other player characters, I don't think I want to know what effect a player character's death (if it were to happen) would have. T^T

[Val]

Val kills when necessary. He finds it to be a permanent solution to someone causing him or people he cares harm. I'd say, out of all of my characters, he's more open to the idea of death than others. He grew up in a harsh environment and was taught to kill to survive. It's just a part of who he is, and he doesn't seem to understand the stigma around doing so.

 

Vincent, on the other hand, kills to survive and because it's part of his job, but he doesn't necessarily appreciate it. Melfice will mourn the death of anyone he feels has some sort of true "talent,' but will see anyone else as expendable. Cyrus hates it the most and outright refuses. ..Or he used to, at least. Now he's beginning to believe it to be a necessity of defense.

[Gen Quickpaw]

Gen has a .. complicated relationship with death, outwards he's trying to be a just, good man, an example for his company members and upholding laws and such.

 

Behind the scenes, he's highly conflicted there's enemies out there threatening his co-workers, and even worse his family, and he has planned, and executed murders because he thought someone might be a threat in the future, rather than waited to make sure, also when his family has been threatened, he's killed even when his opponents have given up. Because no one touches his family.

 

He does not like what he does, and he'll berate anyone for doing the same things. Partly because he thinks he's the only one who should have to shoulder such a responsibility, but also because he's dumb enough to believe that he's wise enough to be judge jury and executioner, and be good at it.

[Telluride]

Much of Nathan's development as a character has bloomed from the Ixal attack that claimed almost his entire family and troupe in a single night, and left him with permanent notions about death.

 

Largely, he is a pacifist, and really doesn't want to hurt or kill anyone - he feels too keenly the results of dying. Now, he'll hunt game and animals for survival, which is part of his upbringing, but most sentient species he would avoid killing as much as his own survival, or that of those he values, allows.

 

Ixal, though, can taste genocide, as far as he cares, and seeing his reaction to these beastmen would refute any belief that the man is completely unwilling or incapable in dispensing death.

 

For Magma, her notions about murder and violence were completely amoral for most of her life, until the moment her brothers were slaughtered on the Bloodsands when they took on an opponent too high above their skill level. Since then, she has abhorred blood and pain, and has to be worked up into something of a fury even to remember the training in pugilism that her family gave her when she was growing up.

[Jana]

To my knowledge, he's only one of a handful of pc characters to commit genocide...

 

Ixal, though, can taste genocide, as far as he cares...

 

We should start a club!

[Maril]

Nailah has the view that killing is a waste of life - And she avoids it when she can, whilst generally also trying to keep her company on the same note. In her eyes, living people are almost always more useful than dead ones A burglar, thief, heck even a murderer can be used in prison-programs where they get forced to do good things, and similar. However she also knows that in some cases it's too much of a utopia to actually carry out, and there are situations where she feels death is justified. Until just a few months ago, she had not killed by her own hands - Though her decisions have previously lead to someone being killed, more or less on her command. It's never something she takes lightly, all other options has to have at least been considered, and in all of the cases where she has killed it has been to ensure her own long-term survival - which is what drives her as a mostly chaotic-neutral character. The most recent one which was by her own hands have left a big impression on her, in some ways she is glad that she has proven that she -can- take a life - and in other ways, she's concerned over how little guilt she feels for these acts.

[Virella]

Virella doesn't see heretics, au ra and dragons as people, so it is NP for her to kill them. However as for the other races of men? She never killed those, don't think she ever will.

 

Avelyn is a proper Fist of Rhalgr. Not the pansy friendship is magic Monk, but the "I write my prayers in blood" type of deal (when she's not being a drunk hobo). And with the German quest saying you need to refill your chakras with aether... Well I say no more.

[Coda]

Wander's familiar with death. She grew up in Ul'dah and survived via petty theft, so she's seen plenty of friends and acquaintances get hurt or die in that line of work. However, in a way, I think living in the city sheltered her from actually having to do anything. Ul'dah, while dangerous, is relatively stable compared to fringe villages where one might have to hunt for their own food or fend off beast/men. Even if it came down to her vs another, I don't think she'd do it. If she were capable of killing, I think she'd have done it by now, considering she has a foot in the water already as a professional thief.

[Yssen]

(Yay for hitting enter to early. Stoopid puter.)

 

 

Hmmm. I do not think things are quite as simple as they have been put forth. Killing and murder are handled differently depending on what type of story is being told. An action movie type story stacks up bodies like cordwood. A romance focused story probably does not have as high a body count. It has very little to do with what is "dark" or "edgy," but everything to do with what the individual writer/rper finds appropriate. That said, like anything else it can be handled poorly. Mindless killing is sometimes just that, mindless. When handled or viewed well by players and their characters it really highlights something horrific about the the world. Namely that there are people capable of it. It also opens up that lovely moral quandries like the classic Batman/Joker debate of "how many death's is Bats responsible for not just killing the Joker." 

 

As for how it is viewed through the lens of my own character... Hrmm. Yssen's case might be a bit extreme. Being brief and vague about his back story, he is (for all intents and purposes) as child soldier. Trained to fight and kill from a very young age, and conditioned to not really have the act of killing affect him. Killing a person and killing a deer are not at all different to him in terms of scale of act. A deer has just as much right to live as a human does, and they usually die for similar reasons. Now that said, he did leave his super fun childhood behind, and he doesn't wander around just murdering people left and right. It is just another solution on the table, and other things might be more appropriate or better solutions. His hard and fast rule on it is pretty simple, a person has to put death on the table as on option. You don't kill a deer just to kill a deer. You kill a deer because you need the deer's meat or skin. Same thing with humans. Some action, intent, or something makes their death necessary to resolve the situation. In short, Yssen does not kill without purpose or reason (like a crazy person). He just doesn't feel bad about it afterwards (like a morally skewed person). 

 

It should be noted that Yssen is probably on the far side of the metric as far as most people go, though. The same could be said of say... a former Garlean soldier (they have to kill something every day as part of their training, often times people) or a 20 year veteran (they have seen and done some things). Anywho, thanks for posting up the topic. These things are cool to think on and dicuss. Yar. ^ ^

[cuideag]

Delial is, frankly, a murderer. She is a means to an end kind of gal and so she's painted much of the conflicts she's lived through (like, y'know, Ala Mhigo) in very black and white terms. It's probably a coping mechanism, really, a way to justify to herself that the things she's done are actually Good and Just. It has also become a compulsion: if she has to be monstrous to preserve the greater good, as thankless a task as that tends to be, then better her than someone else. For the most part, she believes it. Sometimes, others are kind enough to believe it, too, even if only for a little bit. It brings her no joy, though. She hasn't been in a good place in a very long time and some of the more recent deaths, both those she played some part in and those involving friends, have been wearing her down pretty badly.

 

But she has to keep at it. It's what she is supposed to be.