discussion Weaknesses for Versitality

[Aaron]

You can give a rough split on these sorts of things by defining to what extent you pursue a hobby. Let's say you enjoy running.

 

An amateur might do some jogging on a treadmill in the comfort of their own home. Just hit that target heartrate and work up a sweat.

 

A hobbyist might push for mileage, trying to push themselves without diverting long, long hours into it and having it detract from the rest of their life. They might enter a marathon for fun, and not mind if they don't even finish.

 

A serious hobbyist will be entering marathons with the intention of completing them. As you go up the seriousness curve, you start tracking those times and working harder towards them on the weekend to be able to outperform yourself.

 

A marathon doesn't necessarily make you a runner, though. Some people can just trudge through it with endless energy and endurance without actually going fast. Some people are born sprinters, and able to do a 4 minute mile but not much else.

 

Then you get into the professional levels of things, people who have dedicated years of their lives to setting records and performing at a world-class level. And then you have the flipside of that: Someone who's been pushing on a treadmill for six years and just doesn't have the means to improve.

 

Someone who has tried to qualify for olympic trials and never made it. Someone who has entered, and failed to complete, ten marathons in as many months. Time spent does not equal proficiency, but it is always required. Your prodigies might be able to see something once and pick it up quickly, but that's not quite what's being discussed here.

 

"Very good" can mean anything. You can be the third-best runner on your block. You could be the third-best runner in your area code. You might be the best in your state, or country, but still not world-class. It's a means-nothing term when comparing to the rest of the population.

 

"Very good" as a handwave to be able to potentially win any combat against any other character is lazy.

 

 

I enter those tournaments to win gil point blank and simple lol. I won't even lie to you. That small chance of winning 150k is enough motivation for me.

 

 

This is depressing to read and explains a lot.

Aye man I just say it how it is. I have no shame admitting it. Now, I may not need the gil, but hell you got randoms who don't even rp entering to win sometimes.

[Nebbs]

I think I have mostly played characters that get good through RP and not through background. It gives you deapth and breadth and establishes them.

[Warren Castille]

A 4-year bachelors is considered entry-level into a profession. You go to school for four years so you can begin at the bottom.

 

I was the best Smash player in my neighborhood, too. Then I met someone on a tournament level and got absolutely crushed. Experience is relative to your surroundings.

[Aaron]

A 4-year bachelors is considered entry-level into a profession. You go to school for four years so you can begin at the bottom.

 

I was the best Smash player in my neighborhood, too. Then I met someone on a tournament level and got absolutely crushed. Experience is relative to your surroundings.

I understand that, but then again think about it.

 

If it's relative to your surroundings,

 

CHARACTER A & CHARACTER B both trained for 3 years.

 

CHARACTER A went through a Galen Marek/ Darth Vader esque regime.

 

CHARACTER B went through a every other week type regime.

 

Both after their three years fight each other. Which do you think would be noticeably better at it? CHARACTER A or CHARACTER B?

 

Edit- Neither of these refer to my character also.

[Caspar]

I think that would depend on the personality of the trainee and the nature of the training method. The most vicious, draconian training regimen ever won't work if you don't respond to it as intended. Like getting conciliatory or obstinate from mistreatment. Its not the greatest example because it involves a lot of variables. A lot of the draconian techniques Virara went through, for instance, only worked specifically because of her "blank slate" pliability, and are not meant narratively to be ideal or even good training methods for others. The instructor, too, was fairly twisted and some training might have just been harsh out of sadism. It only worked because her training was tailored to sculpt her into a specific kind of individual that had already (maybe) begun to take shape.

 

Every other week implies less time too so the qualitative comparison is kinda undermined by that.

[Warren Castille]

snip

 

Which Vader are we taking, the young one that got completely wrecked by his teacher twice his age or the older one who got completely wrecked by the person half his age, after he was 50% tireless robot?

[Aaron]

snip

 

Which Vader are we taking, the young one that got completely wrecked by his teacher twice his age or the older one who got completely wrecked by the person half his age, after he was 50% tireless robot?

Doesn't matter about his own personal body, Galens training was described as brutal and extreme nonetheless.

 

Also the only reason he lost if we're being technical is because he was a rigid robot. Had he been the same guy that beheaded Count Dooku (You know the guy Obi Wan couldn't beat even with Anakins help) things might've been different.

 

That Anakin also wrecked Cin Draling. You remember him right? The you know, Jedi Master?

 

And Galen beat Shaak Ti, also a Jedi master.

[Warren Castille]

snip

 

Which Vader are we taking, the young one that got completely wrecked by his teacher twice his age or the older one who got completely wrecked by the person half his age, after he was 50% tireless robot?

Doesn't matter about his own personal body, Galens training was described as brutal and extreme nonetheless.

 

Also the only reason he lost if we're being technical is because he was a rigid robot. Had he been the same guy that beheaded Count Dooku (You know the guy Obi Wan couldn't beat even with Anakins help) things might've been different.

 

That Galen also wrecked Cin Draling. You remember him right? The you know, Jedi Master?

 

Okay, we'll file off the names. Is it the guy who lost to his teacher or the guy who lost to an inexperienced child?

[Aaron]

snip

 

Which Vader are we taking, the young one that got completely wrecked by his teacher twice his age or the older one who got completely wrecked by the person half his age, after he was 50% tireless robot?

Doesn't matter about his own personal body, Galens training was described as brutal and extreme nonetheless.

 

Also the only reason he lost if we're being technical is because he was a rigid robot. Had he been the same guy that beheaded Count Dooku (You know the guy Obi Wan couldn't beat even with Anakins help) things might've been different.

 

That Galen also wrecked Cin Draling. You remember him right? The you know, Jedi Master?

 

Okay, we'll file off the names. Is it the guy who lost to his teacher or the guy who lost to an inexperienced child?

It's the guy who killed jedi masters and SITH lords and only lost to his teacher because of arrogance rather than skill.

 

And the guy that lost to a child simply because said child was naturally more mobile and raw with the force.

[Teadrinker]

I've noticed that a lot of people tend to design their characters as catch alls. Like:

 

"Oh well she's really good at magic so I need to make it so she's good at something physical too or else she'll get owned."

 

.....Or maybe she sucks at physical combat and needs a tank. There. You just created an RP hook while having a believable weakness.

 

People roleplay like some mystery character is gonna fly our of the night and magically know their weakness and own them in the Quicksand. It's freaking bizarre to me. People barely get walk up due to shyness, I assure you no one cares that much to do that to you and if they do they probably need to be on your blacklist anyway.

[Caspar]

snip

 

Which Vader are we taking, the young one that got completely wrecked by his teacher twice his age or the older one who got completely wrecked by the person half his age, after he was 50% tireless robot?

Doesn't matter about his own personal body, Galens training was described as brutal and extreme nonetheless.

 

Also the only reason he lost if we're being technical is because he was a rigid robot. Had he been the same guy that beheaded Count Dooku (You know the guy Obi Wan couldn't beat even with Anakins help) things might've been different.

 

That Anakin also wrecked Cin Draling. You remember him right? The you know, Jedi Master?

 

And Galen beat Shaak Ti, also a Jedi master.

Again this is a bad example because the skill and ability to display experience varies wildly between depiction. Dooku is a particularly egregious example of plot fiat as he jobs both of his appearances to make one of the heroes appear badass. This works (poorly) only in closed narrative.

[Aaron]

snip

 

Which Vader are we taking, the young one that got completely wrecked by his teacher twice his age or the older one who got completely wrecked by the person half his age, after he was 50% tireless robot?

Doesn't matter about his own personal body, Galens training was described as brutal and extreme nonetheless.

 

Also the only reason he lost if we're being technical is because he was a rigid robot. Had he been the same guy that beheaded Count Dooku (You know the guy Obi Wan couldn't beat even with Anakins help) things might've been different.

 

That Anakin also wrecked Cin Draling. You remember him right? The you know, Jedi Master?

 

And Galen beat Shaak Ti, also a Jedi master.

Again this is a bad example because the skill and ability to display experience varies wildly between depiction. Dooku is a particularly egregious example of plot fiat as he jobs both of his appearances to make one of the heroes appear badass. This works (poorly) only in closed narrative.

Hmm? Oh I forgot about that. I thought me and Warren were now just swinging our internet lightsaber at each other lol

[Kellach Woods]

snip

 

Which Vader are we taking, the young one that got completely wrecked by his teacher twice his age or the older one who got completely wrecked by the person half his age, after he was 50% tireless robot?

 

The guy who went to Japan, defeated Antonio Inoki, had a monster run over there, and then floundered in the US due to backstage politics.

[4wheel]

snip

 

Which Vader are we taking, the young one that got completely wrecked by his teacher twice his age or the older one who got completely wrecked by the person half his age, after he was 50% tireless robot?

 

The guy who went to Japan, defeated Antonio Inoki, had a monster run over there, and then floundered in the US due to backstage politics.

 

Oh yeah, the one who had his eye come out of its socket during a botch and just pushed it back in with his bare hand.

[Heidrek]

snip

 

Which Vader are we taking, the young one that got completely wrecked by his teacher twice his age or the older one who got completely wrecked by the person half his age, after he was 50% tireless robot?

 

The guy who went to Japan, defeated Antonio Inoki, had a monster run over there, and then floundered in the US due to backstage politics.

 

Oh yeah, the one who had his eye come out of its socket during a botch and just pushed it back in with his bare hand.

 

[Warren Castille]

I really don't want this to become the "derail and dump on Aaron" thread, but I had a lightbulb pop up this morning.

 

What exactly is meant by "did nothing but train for 3 years?" Is that during off-time, or like, full on "I spend sun-up to sun down perfecting my art" kind of stuff? I only ask because that brings up the other relevant questions pertaining to the setting: How did Aaron live for those 3 years? Training doesn't pay bills or buy food. Nutrition is a huge, huge part of fitness and if he was starving that would have impacted his ability to train himself. Conversely, if he was holding down a job, that would put his training by the wayside for, you know, surviving.

 

The Calamity was 5-7 years ago, and wiki says Aaron is 23. So he was 16-18 when the world got blowed up, and went through an intense rebuilding stage. I'm legitimately curious as to how all of the timing shakes out (or if it doesn't, because fitting backstory into a fluid, partially-retconned official timeline makes for a headache). Did Aaron skip out on the laborious process of helping to rebuild his home and/or world in favor of learning how to fight? He's also a fairly well-adjusted, albeit apathetic, human being, which means he wasn't secluded in a forest or something Gohan-style trying to learn his way.

 

This isn't meant as an EXPLAIN YOURSELF kind of question or post, but it got me thinking about my own characters and their methods, too. Off-screening stuff is a tried and true practice to explain how we know things, but I never really considered how feasible it might've been. It's given me a lot of food for thought.

[Aaron]

I really don't want this to become the "derail and dump on Aaron" thread, but I had a lightbulb pop up this morning.

 

What exactly is meant by "did nothing but train for 3 years?" Is that during off-time, or like, full on "I spend sun-up to sun down perfecting my art" kind of stuff? I only ask because that brings up the other relevant questions pertaining to the setting: How did Aaron live for those 3 years? Training doesn't pay bills or buy food. Nutrition is a huge, huge part of fitness and if he was starving that would have impacted his ability to train himself. Conversely, if he was holding down a job, that would put his training by the wayside for, you know, surviving.

 

The Calamity was 5-7 years ago, and wiki says Aaron is 23. So he was 16-18 when the world got blowed up, and went through an intense rebuilding stage. I'm legitimately curious as to how all of the timing shakes out (or if it doesn't, because fitting backstory into a fluid, partially-retconned official timeline makes for a headache). Did Aaron skip out on the laborious process of helping to rebuild his home and/or world in favor of learning how to fight? He's also a fairly well-adjusted, albeit apathetic, human being, which means he wasn't secluded in a forest or something Gohan-style trying to learn his way.

 

This isn't meant as an EXPLAIN YOURSELF kind of question or post, but it got me thinking about my own characters and their methods, too. Off-screening stuff is a tried and true practice to explain how we know things, but I never really considered how feasible it might've been. It's given me a lot of food for thought.

That wiki was a failed attempt at being like everyone else. I forgot I had it for a moment so I'd take anything there with a grain of salt.

 

As for the three years part, and the calamity Aaron was indeed, homeless (Why do you think he has zero problem begging for stuff? Or the fact that he literally has almost no emotional attachment? He's been through a lot, just ignores it well lol) And when he wasn't looking for food or w/e, he was out in whatever fuggin place playing with magic or using a sword (I'd assume he found) in hopes of being good enough to be a mercenary. And get paid to half ass his job (he says he doesn't kill the target, which he doesn't. You'll have to get somebody else to kill them)

 

Now, I'd assume during those three years, considering if Aaron only ate sparingly and didn't care if he wore raggedy clothes (he doesn't) Aaron would practice a bit non stop if anything to pass the time. Once he got on his feet though (current Aaron) he got lazy as fuck cause he already has a job and got some rep as a decent mercenary so he went Fuck it if I can get away with being a deadbeat for free this time ima do it.

 

Least that's what I got going in my head, been a while since I thought about it. But Yeah, Aaron did nothing special and did Jack shit helping anyone but himself really. Been meaning to update that into the wiki but Fuck it ain't nobody got time for that.

[Valence]

Are we really taking StarWars as a realistic point of analogy?

 

Well in any case then I guess that it tends to show the importance on the difference between the audiences/demographics and tone of story you want to aim for...

[Warren Castille]

There was a pretty decent conversation about where people get imprinted by fiction and how that sets standards on how a story should progress and climax, as well as what makes a "proper" heroic protagonist.

 

We used Lord of the Rings and DBZ as comparison points.

 

On the one hand, Frodo is scared and angsty because of his duty and the flaws and hubris of man lay the grounds for betrayal, corruption, death and sacrifice in order to save the day. On the other hand, Gohan kills the most powerful antagonist in the world with one arm after also mastering the most difficult transformation technique before he's legally able to drink.

 

Ebbs and flows.

[Aaron]

Are we really taking StarWars as a realistic point of analogy?

 

Well in any case then I guess that it tends to show the importance on the difference between the audiences/demographics and tone of story you want to aim for...

If we're really going to be technical.

 

Almost nothing about this game is realistic. To people that absolutely must have 100% realism in their stuff or closer quite frankly is better of playing something like the sims.

 

But ima just avoid delving too much into that.

[Warren Castille]

Ah, but then it becomes a question of "how much realism is too much realism" and that is always going to very by writer. Why are some schools of thought too much while others not enough?

[Lamiaris]

Just a question I am curious about. But for those who have more than one class IC, how do you add drawbacks to compensate for their versatility? Do they gain a weakness as a result of this (Like for example Lamaris' Sage character who can't cast Freeze or Flare without damaging herself)? Do they have less skill in a certain class compared to someone who exclusively dedicates their being to it? Do they have psychological troubles as a result of their training and multiple disciplines?

 *flail* Senpai mentioned me!! :tonberry: *foams at the mouth*

[Verad]

Ah, but then it becomes a question of "how much realism is too much realism" and that is always going to very by writer. Why are some schools of thought too much while others not enough?

 

Everybody seems to be presuming equality of aptitude, so we've already tossed realism out the window.

[Kellach Woods]

That probably stems from the fact that we're RPing within a given set of mechanics regardless of our personal opinions on whether we should consider these mechanics in our stories or not.

 

In so far as the topic is concerned, I'll just say that if your weakness isn't interesting, you really should consider embracing being stupidly OP. People'll RP with you, or not based on much more ludicrous factors.

[Verad]

Presuming equivalence based on mechanics isn't a given considering how often roleplayers are willing to break from mechanics as a guideline for roleplay in other factors. I note that nobody presumes, for example, that everybody from Ishgard must be incredibly dangerous since they must all be at least 50+ to be there.

I agree with you regarding weaknesses though. Include them if you plan to do something interesting with them. Don't include them out of a vague sense of point-buy fairness.