discussion Language barriers and rp

[Kurt S.]

Curious if you guys like work that into your -insert foreigner status- character too? I mean like help add weight to the whole concept of being not really part of Eorzea. The language barrier I mean. I like to think it captures the whole idea of being a foreigner too, because it isn't enough to just be culture shocked and clueless.

 

I mean one of the key points of my coast skink (Thanks KISS) is that she can't for the life of her speak Eorzean. Stuck with the old tongue that I'm probably assuming is going strong in all the tribes. 

 

Also curious, for those who do this anyway, if that affects your chances of getting rp? Walk-up mainly because planned is convenient in its own way.

[Nebbs]

About as far as I went was for my Au Ra tribe girl, where I changed the way she spoke to be more foreign. I borrowed a lot from working and living with people who's spoken English was still heavily influenced by their native one. This is essentially dropping some of the world and swapping around the phrasing.

 

I am a failure at languages so for me it was more a sense of a foreign sounding phrasing than anything grounded in real languages.

 

So..

 

"Why are you sitting under that tree? That's typical of all males, lazing around while there is plenty of work to be done."

 

became something like

 

"Why sit under tree? Lazy male should do work, you see this need doing, yes?"

 

I didn't notice any problems with RP, except when she didn't understand things and that just meant more fun in explaining. She was very good at "womansplaining".

[Perth]

I did this with a past xaela of mine, though very sublty, so as it didn't seem burdensome to read. Some words would rarely get out of order or sentences just didn't sound right like "Where did you put book, I cannot find it." She had troubles with bigger Eorzea words, like "consequently" and would ask people to "put it to small words", oftentimes getting frustrated with herself for not being able to express herself like she might in her native tongue. She probably sounded very simple in Eorzean. Then one day, she spoke with a highlander who possesses the echo,and Sharn just let loose all these pent up words she's had since she left home.

[Maril]

With my Au Ra, I have decided to work more on displaying a cultural difference rather than having the language barrier be heavily impairing. At times he will forget a word, and use other words to describe it (sometimes ineffectively), but more often it'll be a failure to understand why people do certain things in certain ways that he is unfamiliar with and even disagrees with. Learning common eorzean in the time he's been in Eorzea (bit more than a year) is something I attribute to the want to survive, as such adapting so that he can more easily find work. He does remain illiterate for the most part, however. I also chose not to alter the way I write out his speech to make it more obvious that he has an accent, which comes down to me not feeling confident enough with English to feel like that I could consistently and realistically pull one off. I also really wanted to avoid doing things like having him speak about himself in third person. Rather I describe it on occasion in emotes that he speaks with a hint of an accent, and leave it at that.

[Kismet]

I play a young Xaela from the Orben tribe, so I'm operating under the impression that sailing around Othard for the majority of her life would've given her a wider exposure to a variety of dialects than the average Xaela. I haven't completely settled on how she talks as a result of that (she's literate because her mother was, so at most she probably has a faint accent)... but I don't think it'd be unreasonable for her to at least have a good understanding of many different accents/dialects she hears. She can speak whatever the 'common Xaela tongue' is fluently.

 

As for my Raen, there will be certain slang terms and expressions she won't get, and she has trouble pronouncing Elezen names/words. But it ends there.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I'm kinda iffy about language barriers because they're never really represented in FFXIV at all beyond say, beast tribes and dragons.

 

All of the Domans who sailed over appear to be speaking the same common language as Eorzeans, albeit a dialect that's a little different. (But still intelligible!)

 

People from Sharlayan and Thavnair appear to have no issues with communication as well. Heck, even Garleans appear to be mostly speaking the language right, although one could imagine that they'd of course have studied the common language of any lands they were going to conquer.

 

So far, the only "people" we've seen speaking another language have been some tempered souls from Meracydia that Sophia had gotten control of. And Urianger was first to claim that it was an archaic dialect at that.

 

For the most part, I think people are pretty much speaking the same language all around. At least currently. Rather than a language barrier, I would suggest a language impediment. (And for the love of the Twelve, not a s-s-stutter because they really don't work that way.) Perhaps your character had never been formally educated. Or never learned to speak correctly. Or perhaps she has difficulty pronouncing things because she didn't speak very often. Or she has trouble generating the speech sounds themselves. There are a variety of ways you can give a character difficulty using a language without just "not knowing it." Because as far as we see, all the spoken races that have made it to Eorzea aren't really having trouble with it. (Even the beast tribes are basically fluent, even if they have some quirks).

[Aoi Fukiku]

I do much of what Maril does and have my character easily know the language but have trouble placing it in to sentences that make sense. Then again, I have her background as she wasn't meant to speak much if at all due to her position in her clan.

 

Slang throws her off. Badly. She will question it as well as try to repeat it but obviously there is a loss in translation.

[Kilieit]

I have two characters who were not raised speaking Eorzean.

 

Both have the Echo, but only one has the language comprehension component of it. (I understand the only Echo power that every single Echo user gets is the tempering immunity.)

 

Aghurlal only knows Eorzean through the Echo. He picked up phrases before he made the trip, but since landing he's relied on his Echo almost entirely to get by day-to-day. It brings his speech its own quirks... he's naturally inclined to do this anyway, but it helps him copy the speech mannerisms of the people around him. His accent changes based on his present company, but with no clear pattern it just cuts to "received pronunciation". His vocabulary choices are not his own - he doesn't tend to make puns or understand wordplay. He speaks with words which most effectively communicate his meaning to the people he's speaking to. He cannot read or write Eorzean fluently.

 

Cinu-a does not have the language comprehension component. However, he's Malaguld, and has been exposed to odd end phrases of Eorzean since 15-20 years ago when the Raen recruits to his tribe first started bringing the language into contact with it ("Otter what are you on about--" Here). He's not much of a talker anyway, but I intend to portray his lack of grasp on the language through his misunderstanding of similar-sounding words and his habit of displaying the majority of his intent through his actions and not his speech. He'll be much more comfortable speaking Doman or Steppes languages.

 

Haven't roleplayed him publically yet... so we'll have to see how that goes, aha.

 

I'm not one for phoneticised accents, or for using IRL languages as real-time stand-ins for Eorzean ones. In fact, the latter is my pet peeve. Especially when most people I've seen doing this are blatantly using Google Translate to do it. Don't make me (or anyone else whose character can understand the language yours is meant to be speaking) whisper you just to understand WTF your character's on about. Just use (some) {sort} [brackets] around plain English like the rest of us, or a quick [Doman] (or whatever) at the start of your sentence like we used to do in WoW.

[Kurt S.]

Ah thanks for the input. All since I don't really use stand-ins for the words i just...

 

Close them in <> or () or {} or [] and write normally. That way anyone with the echo could understand right away. I'll probably move on up to really broken common once she's gotten her bearings on it.

 

Also the way I understand it is that these differences could be as wide as say Mandarin to Cantonese, or as narrow as uhh Australia to New Zealand. 

 

I mean I'm sure the difference between Aldenard regions with other Aldenard regions follows more pronunciation than anything else. 

 

Meanwhile say Othard to Aldenard could be mandarin to cantonese. There'd be similarities but it'd still be hard to get a grip on the language entirely without some time to get accustomed to it. 

 

Also let's not forget that we have the echo.

 

Anyway just thought that maybe it'd be an interesting thing to add. A language barrier. Even though my timezone screws me out of it and it's not the smartest thing to do with my characters.

[Faye]

I don't have any characters who aren't native speakers presently, but like Unnamed Merc pointed out, I'm kinda iffy because it's not really represented with Othardian NPC's and the like. That being said, I think it does add a bit of depth to the RP, but I see most people do it so poorly that it comes off as more offensive than flavorful. I don't think there's a single language where the first-person pronoun is replaced with the speaker's name, and yet I see so much dialogue that's the equivalent of Faye Covington: "Faye thinks that's a good idea!". Language difficulties shouldn't be played off as nonsensical caveman talk. I don't mind people RPing out language barriers, but I think it does merit a shred of research or firsthand knowledge in secondary languages and language barriers, and a bit about the basic structure of whatever language is the closest real world equivalent (so Japanese for Doman, for example).

[Kismet]

Also the way I understand it is that these differences could be as wide as say Mandarin to Cantonese, or as narrow as uhh Australia to New Zealand. 

 

I mean I'm sure the difference between Aldenard regions with other Aldenard regions follows more pronunciation than anything else. 

 

Meanwhile say Othard to Aldenard could be mandarin to cantonese. There'd be similarities but it'd still be hard to get a grip on the language entirely without some time to get accustomed to it. 

 

Also let's not forget that we have the echo.

 

Throughout various quest lines, foreigners have been conversing with native Eorzeans who do not possess the Echo just fine.

 

To my knowledge, the only confirmation we have of an entirely different language being spoken in the PRESENT day is whatever the 'Xaela common tongue' is that most Xaela used for cross-tribe communication in Othard (I suppose one could also count the whistle and click system of the Geneq). And even then, we have no idea if that language is necessarily just straight-up Mongolian or not.

 

Anything else is speculation at this point. (And yes, this even applies to Doma. Any Doman terms are highly implied to be part of a dialect.)

 

All of that being said, I think you can still effectively RP a character that has difficulty with communication. Unnamed Merc pretty much already gave most of the suggestions I would've thrown out there. But at the end of the day, you ultimately do you, of course.

[Kilieit]

The lore book's passage on Othard says that Doman culture developed for 2000 years with no influence from the West. I don't disagree that most Domans probably speak (and have done for the last 20 years) what the Eorzean authors of the book call "the common tongue of the Hyur", but I do assert that it's as a trade language, not their native ancestral language. "2000 years separate" and "same language" are mutually exclusive concepts, and TBH 20 years is an entire generation - plenty of time for Eorzean to become widespread and develop into a local dialect.

 

We can ascertain from their naming conventions that the Lalafell and (ofc) the Roegadyn have their own languages. Roegadyn is cited as being a dying language, but I can't remember anything about Lalafellin. It's possible it's still spoken in the Cieldalaes, and we know it influences both their own names and the names of things like species of fish. We can also extrapolate that Elezen likely have (or had) a language in which their names are based, and we know Miqo'te have a "hunting language" comprised of clicks and whistles. And the existence of a "common tongue" of the Xaela "used for cross-tribe communication" necessarily confirms the existence of tribe dialects, and possibly completely separate languages like the Geneq, Moks, and arguably Qalli are confirmed to have.

 

There's a lot of diversity, and the PoV character being an Echo user/most of the NPCs surrounding them being well-travelled scholars certainly doesn't make it easy to apply an MSQ point of view in confirming or denying the existence (or lack thereof) of a variety of languages in the wider world.

 

Personally, I'd argue it's best to assume there's a diversity similar to IRL until confirmed otherwise - that languages diversify on a similar timescale to IRL - and that the reason why MSQ NPCs all seem to be able to communicate is because plot devices enable them to.

 

(3rd thread I'm saying this in lol I'm such a broken record)

[Kurt S.]

So reading re-reading everything. And everyone's made good points by the way. 

 

After all that and poring through a logs I could dig up.

 

I'm wondering what they refer to as "dialect." Again my question feeds back to my earlier post, and I don't seem to find much clarification on other sources. Would the dialect be as simple as say. How New Yorkers speak English versus say the English speaking English.

 

Or do they mean dialect in the context of say, Mandarin to Cantonese or Fookien. Or in a more personal setting, Bisaya to Tagalog. 

 

Because the Philippines needs so many dialects they're pretty much indistinguishable to each other. Someone from the northern islands will never understand someone from the southern islands unless they undergo at least a year of study. And yet they're still called "dialects."

 

Another bit of language barrier rp that I'd like to touch up on, this coming from someone who used to live and breathe language barriers because I had to spend more than 12 years trying to learn English, is sentence structure. It kinda struck a cord because for the longest time my grammar was (probably still is) horrible. I think it can excuse the Caveman talk. More on that at the bottom.

 

As as an aside, I can't really count Sharlayans as a reliable benchmark seeing as they're the de facto "nerd" nation. Or so it is painted out. It would be remiss of them to NOT know other tongues. Of course I could be wrong. 

 

<<>>>

 

As for Garleans they seem so widespread (Holdings in both Othard and Eorzea) and they strike me as so technologically advanced that the dissemination of information would be easy enough to achieve. That maybe it's easy or relatively easy enough to gain access to some database of languages within the provinces. No doubt dubbed "Dialect" too.

 

<<>>

 

Also as another observation. I think Caveman talk is quite acceptable, BUT easily rectified. The thing is, and I'm just regaling how our English classes taught English because we didn't know how English, it all depends on how they'd pick up the common tongue.

 

I mean sentence structure's got Subjects and Predicates, right?

 

Now if you take away the concept of pronouns or haven't introduced, say the Eorzean variant, to said character yet. Which I believe may happen. You're left with no substitutes but what you can comprehend out of the structure. 

 

It'd be rude to say the equivalent of "I" in your language to someone who doesn't already understand it. The idea is that you're probably going to want to be inclusive so everyone understands. Even if it's grating to ears or in this case, making the eyes bleed.

 

So how's that going to play out? 

 

"Kurt think that good!"

 

Simply because you're limited in your understanding but you still want that idea to come across as complete. Being messy is just a price for that.

 

/rant

 

Just in case anyone else would like to know from the perspective of a non-native English spokener. (bwahahaha)

[Marisa]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the races of men in Eorzea have largely adopted a universal language. I mean you of course have your region-specific words, like the Garlean psuedo-latin or the occasional japanese or french the Domans and Ishgardians (respectively) like to throw in, but those are likely hold-overs from their ancestral languages, or divergent dialects resulting from geographic isolation or local culture.  

 

Anyway, I'm not away of any race of men that actually has a unique language at this point. Am I wrong?

[Kurt S.]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the races of men in Eorzea have largely adopted a universal language. I mean you of course have your region-specific words, like the Garlean psuedo-latin or the occasional japanese or french the Domans and Ishgardians (respectively) like to throw in, but those are likely hold-overs from their ancestral languages, or divergent dialects resulting from geographic isolation or local culture.  

 

Anyway, I'm not away of any race of men that actually has a unique language at this point. Am I wrong?

 

Isn't Eorzea part of Aldenard, a continent? Doma to Othard, another continent? And Aldenard and Othard being continents of Hydaelyn which just happens to be named the same as the Mother Crystal?

 

I mean at least I think that's how the flow goes. Could be (horribly) wrong.

[Teadrinker]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the races of men in Eorzea have largely adopted a universal language. I mean you of course have your region-specific words, like the Garlean psuedo-latin or the occasional japanese or french the Domans and Ishgardians (respectively) like to throw in, but those are likely hold-overs from their ancestral languages, or divergent dialects resulting from geographic isolation or local culture.  

 

Anyway, I'm not away of any race of men that actually has a unique language at this point. Am I wrong?

 

Xaelans are the only ones afaik. A lot of people headcanoned Doma as well but the Lorebook took that out behind the shed.

 

I'm super touch and go with RPing language barriers on my Doman but I'm honestly just not a big fan of language barrier RP. I've seen it cause a lot of OOC drama so I just avoid it most of the time tbh.

[Kismet]

I'm wondering what they refer to as "dialect." Again my question feeds back to my earlier post, and I don't seem to find much clarification on other sources. Would the dialect be as simple as say. How New Yorkers speak English versus say the English speaking English.

 

Or do they mean dialect in the context of say, Mandarin to Cantonese or Fookien. Or in a more personal setting, Bisaya to Tagalog.

 

Because the Philippines needs so many dialects they're pretty much indistinguishable to each other. Someone from the northern islands will never understand someone from the southern islands unless they undergo at least a year of study. And yet they're still called "dialects."

 

The part that I put in bold is what I was going for when I said "dialect". Kind of like how American Southerners have their own slew of accents, expressions, and colloquialisms that Americans from the North may not understand. It's the exact same language, but different rhythm and sayings.

 

Also as another observation. I think Caveman talk is quite acceptable, BUT easily rectified. The thing is, and I'm just regaling how our English classes taught English because we didn't know how English, it all depends on how they'd pick up the common tongue.

 

I mean sentence structure's got Subjects and Predicates, right?

 

Now if you take away the concept of pronouns or haven't introduced, say the Eorzean variant, to said character yet. Which I believe may happen. You're left with no substitutes but what you can comprehend out of the structure. 

 

It'd be rude to say the equivalent of "I" in your language to someone who doesn't already understand it. The idea is that you're probably going to want to be inclusive so everyone understands. Even if it's grating to ears or in this case, making the eyes bleed.

 

So how's that going to play out? 

 

"Kurt think that good!"

 

Simply because you're limited in your understanding but you still want that idea to come across as complete. Being messy is just a price for that.

 

Err...

 

The most I'm able to gather from what I think you're going on about here is that, in short, you just really really want your character to talk weird. Specifically, you want language to be the catalyst for this oddity in their speech. And you think that due to the wide spread of various languages, dialects, and accents there are in real life... that it must obviously be present in the game's world, too.

 

On a fundamental level, I get that. I really do. But sadly, there just isn't much support for unique languages apart from the common tongue that are currently being used en masse -- with the exception of Xaelan tongue(s). Every race does have their own individual languages, that was never in question. But it's heavily implied that those are outdated and not widely used anymore, outside of a handful of terms. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this.)

 

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the concept of a character with 'caveman-esque speech' seems kind of weird and/or unnecessary, unless your character has some really funky backstory that justifies it (like being sheltered their whole life or something)... That's just me, though.

 

If that's truly what you want to do because it'll make you happiest, then go for it.

[Kurt S.]

 

The part that I put in bold is what I was going for when I said "dialect". Kind of like how American Southerners have their own slew of accents, expressions, and colloquialisms that Americans from the North may not understand. It's the exact same language, but different rhythm and sayings.

 

 

Ah well for that bit, I was wondering more on the universe's scope. Not "they" as roleplayers. But they as in all the other characters within the game and universe. Since we're pretty much variables that change with the definitions set in by the lore book or whoever's in charge of the lore. 

 

Like, if there's been any in game/universe evidence to support or refute that the dialect that they refer to is just as simple as slang/accent variations say between how two Americans from two different parts of America were to speak English. Or if they mean the broader scope when it's easy enough to think they're different languages.

 

It's more of something that could incite further speculation. Maybe someone somewhere noticed something that might help support or further refute the lack of unique languages.  

 

The most I'm able to gather from what I think you're going on about here is that, in short, you just really really want your character to talk weird. Specifically, you want language to be the catalyst for this oddity in their speech. And you think that due to the wide spread of various languages, dialects, and accents there are in real life... that it must obviously be present in the game's world, too.

 

On a fundamental level, I get that. I really do. But sadly, there just isn't much support for unique languages apart from the common tongue that are currently being used en masse -- with the exception of Xaelan tongue(s). Every race does have their own individual languages, that was never in question. But it's heavily implied that those are outdated and not widely used anymore, outside of a handful of terms. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this.)

 

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the concept of a character with 'caveman-esque speech' seems kind of weird and/or unnecessary, unless your character has some really funky backstory that justifies it (like being sheltered their whole life or something)... That's just me, though.

 

If that's truly what you want to do because it'll make you happiest, then go for it.

 

Now this bit is just me showing how one could flow from not being able to speak the language to speaking like everyone else. My Xaela doesn't even understand a lick of Eorzean yet, much less speak it. So caveman speech is out of the question. Not that I'd do it for more than one session, my brain cries when I do it.

 

If anything I want her to be fluent in it like the rest of my roster, but I feel like hand waving it feels like cheating when I can try to suffer my way to it. That there's hooks for scholars or cunning linguists to bite into it. Of course it's pretty obvious not everyone's into it. 

 

Workflow as follows:

>Not being able to understand anything. (Like eyes glazed over and general anxiety that you might be wasting someone's time.)

 

>Being able to understand it to some degree, that you finally put some words out. (Essentially caveman speech. At this point you'd probably know that Asshole doesn't actually mean Hello in Eorzean and that's probably why you were punched in the first place.)

 

>Being able to pass for a normal speaker. (That you finally end up speaking like everyone else barring certain syntax errors.) 

 

I just thought maybe, in the vein that this is about language barriers, I could at least show a brief process of how I, as a non-native English speaker, got to the level of proficiency I do now.

 

^^^^^This bit here is the point of that section of the rant to begin with. If the conditions were as follows down here. vvvvv

 

Again with the header above my little rant, it is all under the assumption that the scope of "Dialect" isn't as small and convenient as differing slang and accent of the same language. Under the assumption that no it isn't just as slight as North and South US English. That it may be like say, and I feel like a broken record, Mandarin and Cantonese.

[Kilieit]

Xaelans are the only ones afaik. A lot of people headcanoned Doma as well but the Lorebook took that out behind the shed.

 

The lore book did no such thing. "Speak the common tongue of the [Eorzean] Hyur" and "have their own local ancestral language" are not mutually exclusive concepts. "Its culture developed for thousands of years with no influence from the West" and "they spoke the same language all along" are.

 

General plea: Please stop spreading this quote out of context. It's disingenuous.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the races of men in Eorzea have largely adopted a universal language. I mean you of course have your region-specific words, like the Garlean psuedo-latin or the occasional japanese or french the Domans and Ishgardians (respectively) like to throw in, but those are likely hold-overs from their ancestral languages, or divergent dialects resulting from geographic isolation or local culture.  

 

Anyway, I'm not away of any race of men that actually has a unique language at this point. Am I wrong?

 

Yes. You're wrong on that last point. Please read my post.

 

It's really frustrating to read this thread and feel like everything I'm saying is being ignored, despite being based half in lore from the very book you're all citing, and half in lore you can literally read in the ubiquitous Naming Conventions thread. It alone confirms Roegadyn and Lalafell have their own language, and characterises Roegadyn as dying, but does no such thing for Lalafell. It also strongly implies that Elezen either have or had their own language (because the naming conventions only make sense if they're based in a language with deeper meaning). The rest is from the lore book.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

snip

 

I kinda disagree here. We have plenty of evidence that non-Xaela races of man have had other languages that were commonly used until the common era in Eorzea. But we're also told over and over again that these languages are no longer used commonly. Or that they've become archaic. Or that people no longer speak them. The Roegadyn language is cited in the Warrior information as having been difficult for scholars to translate. Yes, it's largely cultural and they have a collection of words that are generally used in their names, but I don't think it has native speakers anymore. It'd be a dead language. For Elezen, Lalafells and Miqo'te, we again, have evidence that they may have once had their own languages, but the ones living in Eorzea at the very least don't appear to know or speak those languages any longer. The common tongue is the language that people are likely being born and raised with.

 

But it's also important to note that Hydaelyn (the planet) has no obligation to require that languages diversify over time or distance (or both). For all we know, the common language has been common for more than one Astral/Umbral Era cycle. (We have nothing saying the people of Nym/Ampdapor/Mhach/Allag spoke differently than modern Eorzeans. Although we have nothing confirming it either. ...although given that we do have NPCs people without the Echo can communicate with, I lean more towards the common language being pretty old.)

[Kilieit]

I don't think absence of evidence is evidence of absence, ESPECIALLY when our viewpoint character for whom all quests in the game are written has a special talent that allows them to speak and understand any language in the multiverse, including Dragonspeak and Ascian.

 

I agree that "Eorzean" (Hyuran Common) seems to be very widely spoken, but I strongly disagree that means that all the other languages in the world are dead or dying and that nobody's player-character would speak them. English becoming ubiquitous in the real world hasn't killed off Spanish or Mandarin or German. I admit I'm no linguist, but as far as I'm aware, the introduction of English overseas has created MORE languages, in the form of pidgin dialects. Not less.

 

People are treating it like "Eorzean is the only spoken language anywhere" is the only logical conclusion from the lore we're given, and that's just not true. It's one possibility, but it's not canon, and it's not a foregone conclusion from the evidence we have.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

We've got a variety of NPCs without the Echo. The Echo's "ability to understand spoken language" is even just that. It's entirely useless for written texts. Or speaking in another language. I know people like to liken it to like a built-in google translate, but lore panels have vetoed that. It's literally a "I know this is what ____ is trying to communicate without actually knowing the words" mechanism.

 

Cid, Alphinaud, any number of Garleans, the sky pirates in the current 24-person raids, and the list could go on. Our characters may have a blessed understanding of languages, but the people around them do not. And can still understand plenty of things with the common language. The game even specifically gives us special text boxes when it's to be implied we're understanding something through the Echo instead of through natural language processing.

 

I agree that an absence of evidence does not correlate to evidence of absence, but there's is a strong lack of evidence to show that these languages are used in daily life, or they would be alluded to more often. From a linguistics standpoint, dialects are not considered different languages. when I took a minor in the subject just a couple years ago, the instructors generally broke things down like this.

 

Accent: Differences in pronunciation. Slight spelling changes. Syntax and grammar are the same. Mutually intelligible.

 

Dialect: May involve an accent. Includes slang and diction changes. Minor changes in syntax and grammar. Mostly intelligible.

 

Language: Clear distinctions in mean from pronunciation. Large changes in diction. Syntax and grammar are distinctly different. They can be extremely similar, like Hindi and Urdu (it's one of the more common pairings brought up).

[Kilieit]

For the mechanism of the Echo, I refer to two things: firstly, Minfilia's phrasing on the matter. ("knowing a man's mind without knowing his words" or somesuch). Secondly, based on that, is actually the instances where a Great Wyrm imposes his thoughts onto some echo-less NPCs. Although the latter isn't an example of the actual Echo at work, it strikes me as probably being similar in sensation - the way one of them describes his ears as being incomprehending of the Great Wyrm's words while his mind was still fully comprehending of his intent makes me think that's similar to how comprehending languages through the Echo would feel.

 

But... it still stands that it means all quest texts are in plain English with the occasional transcribed accent, even those confirmed by other NPCs to be in other languages. We don't get given stuff to read - it's always an NPC saying "I was reading this ancient tablet and..." or words in that general area. Cid, Alphinaud, Aymeric, Gaius, and so forth are all one or more of the following: highly educated, well-travelled, and/or diplomats (broadly speaking). We don't have an "everyman" point of view to go off. Everyone in the MSQ (and MSQ-close chains) is remarkable, and NPCs in minor quests generally don't come into contact with people from a starkly different background than them... except via the player-character.

 

Like Kurt says further upthread, there are things in the real world termed as "dialects" which a non-scholar would easily see as a separate language: the speakers are unable to communicate with one another unless a third, common language is used. It's obvious the Doman nation's use of "Eorzean" (Eorzean-Hyuran Common, henceforth referred to as Eorzean for simplicity) doesn't meet this criteria, but there are so many places in the world that we have not seen, have not met NPCs from, and have little official lore about that people's player-characters could come from. Even if they had been exposed to Eorzean, it's not confirmed that they'd be fluent in it (especially not as fluent as the... again, generally highly educated... Othardian NPCs we meet in MSQ and NIN quests) or even that their use of Eorzean would be recognisable to someone from Eorzea itself at all. Dialect or not.

 

Honestly, for me, it comes down to this: there's no evidence to suggest there's a mechanism for one language to be universally adopted and fluently spoken. Languages IRL diversify for a set of reasons, and there is nothing so starkly different about societies in the XIV universe as to suggest that none of these reasons exist in it. There is evidence to suggest that the Echo's language comprehension component is an important and rare talent. Why would it be so important if most people spoke Eorzean anyway, or if there was a "universal constant" for language?

 

Lastly... can you really, seriously imagine a Garlean emperor willingly addressing his subjects in a tongue originated from "Eorzean savages"? I can't.

 

It just comes down to Occam's Razor to me that the simplest, most logical, least presumptuous explanation is that things are generally as they are IRL, but the presence of plot devices prevents the flow of quests from being broken up by the need for interpretation. I think it's weird to dismiss people who want to explore this in their RP over half-quoted, inconclusive lore.

[Kismet]

The idea of "what makes sense in real life must obviously also be true in the game in some form, even if we don't receive official confirmation of it from the lore team" is often debated in various RP communities, this one included. What's going on in this thread is no different.

 

The logical part of my brain certainly leaves room for multiple languages being spoken in present-day Hydaelyn. Because that's what simply makes sense. Especially when we don't know how present-day Thavnairians (or Meracydians, provided there's any left) speak, and we won't know until they either send us an NPC delivering such information or allow our characters to go there. But the part of me that is very conservative about jumping the gun doesn't want to get too presumptuous until I see better, distinct examples.

 

In conclusion... Everyone will respectfully have to agree to disagree at this point. Some people want to follow IRL logic, some want to wait and see what lore reveals. As I've said in my last two posts, ultimately, you adhere to whatever best suits your tastes. I think as long as you aren't pushy and (no pun intended) communicate your intent well enough, you'll be fine either way.

[Marisa]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the races of men in Eorzea have largely adopted a universal language. I mean you of course have your region-specific words, like the Garlean psuedo-latin or the occasional japanese or french the Domans and Ishgardians (respectively) like to throw in, but those are likely hold-overs from their ancestral languages, or divergent dialects resulting from geographic isolation or local culture.  

 

Anyway, I'm not away of any race of men that actually has a unique language at this point. Am I wrong?

 

Yes. You're wrong on that last point. Please read my post.

 

It's really frustrating to read this thread and feel like everything I'm saying is being ignored, despite being based half in lore from the very book you're all citing, and half in lore you can literally read in the ubiquitous Naming Conventions thread. It alone confirms Roegadyn and Lalafell have their own language, and characterises Roegadyn as dying, but does no such thing for Lalafell. It also strongly implies that Elezen  either have or had their own language (because the naming conventions only make sense if they're based in a language with deeper meaning). The rest is from the lore book.

 

Okay my wording was off (like how I referred to Hyedalyn as Eorzea) but ultimately my point is that this common, Hyuran language is even more universal than English in the real world. Yeah you've got regional native languages here and there, but the primary language is one so universal, so unopposed, that there's not even a name for it. It's literally just "the common tongue," as you said.