Patch 2.41 Notes

[allgivenover]

Unless you cleared Second Coil before 2.4 then changes are a moot point for you anyway. Even going in with a single piece of poetics gear is missing the boat. 

 

Nerfing old content when new stuff comes out has always been thier plan, I just don't think they expected to have to nerf it so heavily.

[Kage]

I definitely didn't expect the nerfs to the extent that they did but then again T1-4 mechanics wise were and are no-where near the mechanics in even T6 or T7. Or even T8 pre 2.41. There weren't much mechanics to begin with in T1-4 to get nerfed. T6-8 just plain had more.

[Sounsyy]

 

(I found this and I couldn't not! Sorry not sorry!)

[Kellach Woods]

I find the social aspect of raiding the crumpets of bahamoot far more of a challenge than any mechanics. Mechanics can be overcome - raiding mentality/politics, not so much.

[Kage]

Walking into T6 right after the first T5 clear was so weird. AHHH THE SCREEN WENT FUZZY. AHH THESE VINES WHAT DO? WAHHH THESE ADDS ARE SHOWING UP. WAHHH WHAT'S THIS ICON OVER MY HEAD???

 

We didn't even make it to blighted lol

 

The real issue is getting a raid group together, for me. I -love- progression. I love to constantly progress each fight or week with the same people on the "leading" content. It took me so very long to find another group I loved. "Hold we need to put the kids to bed." or "Yeah we gave the kids a movie to watch" are first amusing as hell and then slightly disturbing that parents will put their kids in front of a movie so they can raid for an hour and a half on Saturday... >.>; "Hold she needs to look pretty (put a glamor on)"

 

Edit: Nothing beats "Team Whoever-was-not-here-when-we-pugged-the-turn-and-cleared-the-first-time"

[Kellach Woods]

I find the social aspect of raiding the crumpets of bahamoot far more of a challenge than any mechanics. Mechanics can be overcome - raiding mentality/politics, not so much.

 

Dealt with it once in WoW, with a guild that wasn't even close to finishing current content but had all the negative aspects of a top tier raid guild. Why would I subject myself to this here is beyond me.

 

Although I find it kind of hilarious that you say "Youtube it" when it comes to the content - Youtubing the content doesn't give you the sweet looking gear and the desire to look awesome should never be underestimated.

[Miryn]

An enormous factor in how enjoyable raids are is definitely the people. I would say the difficulty of it is 75% the people and 25% the actual fights.

 

Back when we only had 1st Coil, if you'd asked me if I liked raiding, I would've said no. My RL friend was the static leader and cobbled together a group from the FC, with me as one of the tanks. We were decent - got up to Twisters before 2.2 came out - but I wouldn't say we meshed all that well. A couple of people's personalities grated on me, one of them had a bad habit of starting idle chatter in Vent when we were trying to clear a phase that was giving us trouble, and we had a couple of flakes who sometimes wouldn't show up unless we found them through Facebook or someone else knew their number, and wasted a lot of time trying to get ahold of them or find a replacement the night of. Actually learning the fights was just exhausting, and the myth gear was equal to, if not better than, what dropped in the turns. I pretty much only stayed out of a sense of loyalty to my friend and FCmates and my personal policy of "if it is within my power to tank it, then point me in its direction and I'll go greet it with my face".

 

My friend had to take a hiatus back in May/June. A few more members left the game. Our SCH took over and we merged with another FC static that had fallen apart. If you ask me now if I like raiding, I'd tell you yes. All of my group are chill people, we never yell at each other, when we wipe we go over what went wrong and how we can do better, if our strat needs adjusting. Skill-wise, we are decent but not amazing - we raid 4-5 hours a week; it took us about 3 weeks each to beat T6-T8, and then T9 took 13 weeks... yeah, a lot of hours. A lot of wiping, a lot of food and potions, a lot of making mistakes, a lot of watching your friends make mistakes and swearing not to repeat them, then making the same mistakes anyway until it's been ingrained in the very fiber of your being "Don't do this thing! Do this other thing instead!" And when you finally down the boss and see 8 achievements hit the chat, oh man, it's euphoric.

 

I wouldn't have been able to stand the process if I didn't love each of my static members so much. Those wipes aren't something I view with frustration, but as some of my most hilarious stories. I know I am very fortunate in this regard. Now that Coil is fun to me and the lockout has been removed from SCoB, I'd like others to be able to experience it as well. I jump into T5-T9 learning parties quite a bit, but they remind me of how I felt with my first Coil group. Players don't quite trust each other, they don't talk about what went wrong in the previous attempts, and there is always that one flake who has to leave after 30 minutes when it took an hour to bring the group together. When you are dying over and over with people you don't like, making inches of progress if even that, patience wears thin very fast. And when that atmosphere becomes the face of raiding for someone with no static, the whole idea of raiding is just more trouble than it's worth.

 

I ran T7 last night as a bard for the first time and volunteered for Renaud duty. I was horrible. I missed hiding for a few shrieks and voiced about 6 people, clipped the healers with Circle of Flames, and at one point Shadowbind wore off and I had a brief moment of panic when I saw the Renaud barreling towards me before I remembered that it hits for 600 damage now instead of 14k. We had no right to win that fight had it been in its pre-nerf state, but it was completely doable now. More importantly, it was fun.

 

That is what raiding is to me. Wiping with friends and having fun. The nerfs did their job, IMO. But the "finding 7 others who will support you instead of rage" part will always be hard. Player skill and knowledge of mechanics can always be taught, but a teammate's attitude is nigh impossible to change. Post-2.5 I really hope SE looks into adding smaller raids, maybe 4 or 5-mans, if only to ease the process of finding good people to play with.

 

(Oops, that got more rambly than I meant, apologies. And people above me have pretty much said what I wanted to say, but in far fewer words...)

[Warren Castille]

Although I find it kind of hilarious that you say "Youtube it" when it comes to the content - Youtubing the content doesn't give you the sweet looking gear and the desire to look awesome should never be underestimated.

 

That's the rub, though. If you want the gear you need to earn it. I don't raid because my schedule and lifestyle no longer match the demands that progression asks. I just accept that I'm not going to get X Y Z thing until it gets nerfed. I'm okay with this, because that's how games work.

[Kellach Woods]

That's the rub, though. If you want the gear you need to earn it. I don't raid because my schedule and lifestyle no longer match the demands that progression asks. I just accept that I'm not going to get X Y Z thing until it gets nerfed. I'm okay with this, because that's how games work.

I've no problems with them nerfing it later down the line for those of us who can't commit.

 

I've a large chip on my shoulder for those whining that they did for whatever reason.

[Sounsyy]

I find the social aspect of raiding the crumpets of bahamoot far more of a challenge than any mechanics. Mechanics can be overcome - raiding mentality, not so much.

 

I mean... It's just like RP in my mind. If you don't like the mentality of the people you're RPing with, you find new people to RP with. Plenty of fish in the sea. The same or similar approach should be taken when scoping out a raiding static.

 

Find a group you jive well with. It took me several bum groups to find a static I was pleased with. Though our progression has been kinda marred by having to replace a healer almost every month, (seriously we've been through like 5 healers) I couldn't ask for a better attitude towards content. So such groups are out there.

 

I think what sets raiding slightly apart and what builds that "elitist" attitude, that so many consider a curse word, is that this end game content does require a certain amount of focus and strategy. And let's face it, some people lack the focus to give 110% to a single Turn for 2-3 hours 2-3 nights a week. And that's not to be negative to those who can't or don't have the desire to do so, but at the same time it isn't conducive to mastering content, especially new content or content at gear level.

[Gegenji]

Yeah, I just can't put that kind of commitment in these days either. The gear may look nice (like the caster robes with the Bahamut wings, so stylish!), but it's all "look, but no touch" for me now. I'm content enough driving myself crazy with the zodiac weapon quest, which is more monotony and gil-sink than anything else.

 

I do like reading about what takes place lore-wise in there, though. Even though I have no actual stake in it, it's neat to get some follow-up for that grand cutscene that introduced me to FFXIV. I just don't care to bash my head against the raid wall to see it, so I'm happy enough with the YouTubes and the lore musings that people post based on the scenes themselves.

[Kellach Woods]

Personally I'd just like to try my hand at it just to experience the mechanics first hand. Problem is, I can't commit to a class and I am allegedly fucking atrocious as WAR so let's not go there (I almost botched a T1 by provoking the wrong Caduceus. That was AFTER nerfs.)

 

I'm tempted to level up PLD but yeah... A) Would not necessarily jive with this character. B) I am not a fan of sword and board in most games. C) I like DPS positioning requirements waaaaay too much as a mechanic to settle with obstinate AI trying to get into the perfect position.

[LiveVoltage]

Personally I'd just like to try my hand at it just to experience the mechanics first hand. Problem is, I can't commit to a class and I am allegedly fucking atrocious as WAR so let's not go there (I almost botched a T1 by provoking the wrong Caduceus. That was AFTER nerfs.)

 

I'm tempted to level up PLD but yeah... A) Would not necessarily jive with this character. B) I am not a fan of sword and board in most games. C) I like DPS positioning requirements waaaaay too much as a mechanic to settle with obstinate AI trying to get into the perfect position.

Why dont you try Black Mage, all that basically is is buff>spam fire>element change to ice>spam ice>rinse and repeat, and you pretty much do what every BLM's centeral play style is. Although taking BLM into endgame requires you to get creative and savy with the BLM skillset, but the concept and general gameplay behind it is pretty easy.

 

EDIT: Also, BLM doesnt really require moving during fights or rotating or being in specific places unless the fight needs you to position in a certain place so its mostly spamming.

[Jana]

I think he meant that he enjoys stuff like the MNK dance, not that he wants to get away from them. Everyone could just play BRD.

 

As someone who's totally given up on endgame, I can't comment much on the specifics of Coil. But I think that in general, nerfing old content to give people a crack at it is good practice. People who really really REALLY care can look already up the date you got your clear achievements on the Lodestone anyway. But making old content into a "solo" mode would go against making the game worth playing with other people, which should be the very point of an MMO. I've got plenty of games to play if I don't want to deal with other people but when I'm enjoying an MMO, I want to talk and be social while playing together.

[Kage]

It also takes some dedication to -meeting- for raids as ridiculous as it sounds. You have to be willing to say, "Ok my group as agreed that these times are when we meet. Barring emergencies or more important obligations (family or work), I need to meet the raiding obligation that I have made with -seven- other people."

 

It's not as easy as it sounds haha.

 

I've made horrible mistakes. I've so many anecdotes of when stupid wipes go wrong. Does it get frustrating? A little. In the moment when you're trying to explain divebombs in T9 to me and we are shooting ourselves in the foot by killing each other with the 6 meteors in that phase... I don't wanna hear it. It's more frustrating to think of a latter phase when we're stuck on a phase we thought we were passing before.

 

But it's ok because then you said the magic words of "Hey guys we're doing really well!" and when the Ghost dies we all run out of its aoe... into the not-safe-knock-into-death-wall-area of Heavensfall.

 

Oops.

[Kage]

OH by the way, regarding the first boss in Snowcloak with Snow Drift.

 

Posted in the Patch notes:

An issue during the first boss battle in Snowcloak wherein the Frozen debuff would apply even when taking preventative measures during the action Snow Drift.

 

During cast through the actual animation of Snow Drift, if you keep moving, don't stop can't stop... you shouldn't get it. I asked pre-2.41 and that was the way. I'd escaped it once or twice but this should now do it 100%

[allgivenover]

I find the social aspect of raiding the crumpets of bahamoot far more of a challenge than any mechanics. Mechanics can be overcome - raiding mentality/politics, not so much.

 

This right here. For every successful 8 person group in coil there are 8 more wishing they had a static. Individual skill is only half of it, the rest is team management.

[Kellach Woods]

I think he meant that he enjoys stuff like the MNK dance, not that he wants to get away from them. Everyone could just play BRD.

Yup. Perfect positioning depending on AI is pretty much the tanking experience. I can deal with it nice enough - I just hate being dependent on something I can't accurately control. I can ask that the tank doesn't move the dude much, etc. Can't do that with AI.

 

There's all sorts of other things but I'm kind of exaggerating how much I suck/dislike stuff. I don't think I've met a single class that wasn't interesting mechanically speaking, except maybe White Mage and even then, I still like it enough.

 

But that's just me, let's get back on the topic of 2.4.1 and the nerfing of Sexting Cool of Bahablast.

 

(I have TONS of these renames do not let me use them because i will)

[Zhavi]

 

This right here. For every successful 8 person group in coil there are 8 more wishing they had a static. Individual skill is only half of it, the rest is team management.

 

Herding cats.

[Gegenji]

 

This right here. For every successful 8 person group in coil there are 8 more wishing they had a static. Individual skill is only half of it, the rest is team management.

 

Herding cats.

 

That sounds slanderous. I've run plenty of dungeons just fine with Miqo'te, ST included. :cactuar:

[Kage]

 

This right here. For every successful 8 person group in coil there are 8 more wishing they had a static. Individual skill is only half of it, the rest is team management.

 

Herding cats.

Knowing a human version of a cat, a cat, and raided with one I would agree with this sentiment. The real challenge of raiding is really getting a good raid team together.

[LiveVoltage]

I would have to concur with the others. Individual skill and skillset optimization is only 1/4th of the fight. The real challenge is execution and getting a team that knows what they are doing. COIL is really a team effort and group wide skill check.

[Dogberry]

The real boss in FFXIV is the human condition.

[Titor]

This is why I love PvP. If one person messes up you can still fairly well carry them to victory.

 

PvE, one person messes up and wipe.

 

(I will never understand how most PvE mechanics are so hard for people, and no, not just 'lag' problems)

[Kage]

This is why I love PvP. If one person messes up you can still fairly well carry them to victory.

 

PvE, one person messes up and wipe.

 

(I will never understand how most PvE mechanics are so hard for people, and no, not just 'lag' problems)

(I'm sorry you had to go through some of our more "learning" runs of T7. ><)