The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales

[Kellach Woods]

They're not used to PLDs that actually bothered leveling CNJ past 15.

[Valence]

Not that you are wrong to do it and that healer is probably a frustrated idiot, but I always wonder why PLD always make a point casting those at the beginning since the heal will do it anyway...

 

 

Got recently frustrated in my hunting for materials, going in my usual farming spot when I suddenly see guys getting out of nowhere, probably here to farm the same spot (i was there first damnit), and suddenly aggroing everything with stupid AoEs to deny me everything, hoping that I drop it out of disgust.

 

Which I did.

 

Moments like those, I wish the server was pvp...

[Dat Oni]

Not that you are wrong to do it and that healer is probably a frustrated idiot, but I always wonder why PLD always make a point casting those at the beginning since the heal will do it anyway...

 

PLD casts protect, healer casts Stoneskin II.

 

Bam. Full protection on party in half the time.

[Aaron]

Load into Level 50 roulette as a tank. Cast Protect and Stoneskin on myself. Get asked "so do you wanna heal for me too?" by the healer, who then drops party in the next ten seconds.

 

What the hell.

You're the reason the party economy is shit.

 

Taking jobs from hard working healers when you're a tank what the fuck next Warren you're going to take WAR dps too?

 

You goddamn disgrace.

[Warren Castille]

Edgar's got it. White Mage has one exclusive buff and one shared one. I don't know why they cast the shared one first.

[Melkire]

If the healer in question is a WHM, there should be a Swiftcast-Stoneskin II at the start of an instance and right before each boss fight. Protect will follow... meaning there shouldn't be any reason for a PLD to be casting Protect anyway, since they and the healer will get to it at the same time.

 

"But I'm saving my Swiftcast for raise/resurrection!"

 

Swiftcast is a 60s CD. If you as a healer or as a tank anticipate a need for a rez less than 60 seconds into an instance, you have bigger problems than cooldown timers (and no, there is no instanced content outside of current raid/progression that requires you to have the DPS up, the idiots could be down/dead and you'll still be fine).

 

 

 

Mind you, I'm not excusing the shitty attitude and the drop, especially if the healer in question was not playing efficiently. But... there's no need for PLD to cast either buff with a WHM in tow.

[Jana]

On the rare chance I play PLD I like to do it to rub it into my healer's face that I've leveled WHM.

 

I'm watching you, healer.

 

Watching you.

[FreelanceWizard]

I save my Swiftcast at the beginning of the dungeon for Swift Holy -> Holy x2-x3.

 

That said, I'm perfectly happy for the PLD to start in with the buffs! Since they're the exact same in 3.x, if they want to Protect while I'm hard casting Stoneskin II, awesome. Likewise, if the PLD wants to SS after pulls, cool. That's more MP regen for me for more Holy. When I PLD, if the healer doesn't start buffing once the instance starts, sure, I'll throw up Protect, and if we're low enough level that they don't have SS yet, then I'll definitely start putting that up on people.

 

IMO, one of the key skills for being a healer is being able to adapt and respond to rapidly changing situations. Getting bent out of shape about who casts what buff is just silly.

[Edda]

Such crappy behavior for so silly a thing sounds like an anomaly. I think most healers would prefer a tank that buffs over one that runs off at the beginning of a dungeon before you barely started the cast...

 

That's always lovely. But hey, if someone doesn't want to use protection, I can't force it on them. Maybe it's against their religion.

[Warren Castille]

I guess he was having a bad day. I'm used to having the healer equivalent to the tank that pauses before every pull; When the barrier drops, I'm casting protect. If you're also doing it, I cancel it. If you're not doing it, I protect myself and then stoneskin myself.

 

It doesn't make a ton of sense to stand around gazing at navels once the clock starts. Rargh efficiency. Say hello while we're running to the first pull!

[Mavis]

-sigh- look, just look. 

"I never did this dungeon as -insert role here-", is not an excuse. M9, you must've run Dzemael way more than me considering you got three 60s. How can you not know how to do the pulls if you've seen and done them for atleast 20 times. And if you THEN tell people who call you out on it "mean", you lost all credibility. 

Shaking my head.

[Warren Castille]

I still gripe when healers tell me to put on Shield Oath during Trial primals.

 

1) I'm about 40 ilvl over the requirement

2) Our DPS is pasting everything because THEY are 40 ilvl over the requirement

3) There are no scary movies in any fight except maybe Ramuh's big bolt/aa combo

4) I'm using cooldowns intelligently

5) cri moar

 

Tank privilege: checked, and still present

[Dat Oni]

I've had people asking me what the fuck I know about tanking because I main a PLD, as if there's an actual stigma developed against those who play it.

 

Never mind that I'm i198 with this job. No, clearly, because I play the tank with the lowest amount of overall damage potency, I'm a fucking plebian who was somehow carried through the game.

 

I should probably also mention the person who did this was a DRK who was mad that I wanted to MT in Void Ark.

[Warren Castille]

That pisses me off, too. Paladin's plenty capable of holding threat as a MT, and since both DRK and WAR should be out-damaging it, there's zero reason to reduce raid damage so someone can feel better about their peen. If the paladin's tanking and the WAR and the DRK are free to just go to town, it's helping the group, not hurting it.

[Aedan Marceaux]

One could argue that because you are using the "lesser" of the three tanks and still doing well enough that you know a fair bit about tanking.

 

Trust me. I dislike the stigma against paladins as well. It was once my main. I switched to DRK because of the numbers and the fact that, as of right now, it is more fun to play, imo.

 

Perhaps the "fixes" in the upcoming patch will put PLD on par or above the other two.

[Valence]

As a heal I hug all the paladins. They are the most comfy to heal, just apply regen and forget about him until it's ready to apply another one... Then holy holy holy. Even better when a MCH or BRD is in the group, and the last one a summoner. Those poor mob stacks.

 

PLD players are also the most likeable in my opinion, generally, since all the terrible players switched for something else META-compliant.

[Dat Oni]

That pisses me off, too. Paladin's plenty capable of holding threat as a MT, and since both DRK and WAR should be out-damaging it, there's zero reason to reduce raid damage so someone can feel better about their peen. If the paladin's tanking and the WAR and the DRK are free to just go to town, it's helping the group, not hurting it.

 

PLD has next to no damage, but awesome defensive CDs and a skill that procs only when successfully blocking an attack (Shield Swipe) as well as a mana-regen skill (Sheltron) that guarantees that block.

 

Despite having Royal Authority and Goring Blade by endgame, there is no reason PLD should ever be OTing. People like to argue Clemency at this point, but when you factor in the fact that Clemency eats huge amounts of mp, and Shelltron provides a second form of mana regen available primarily for the MT, oddly enough, Clemency is more useful to the MT than it would ever be for the OT. More opportunities to use what is already a situational skill can only be a good thing!

 

All of this considered, there should never be a moment where PLD is OTing. The utility is just too good.

[Warren Castille]

That pisses me off, too. Paladin's plenty capable of holding threat as a MT, and since both DRK and WAR should be out-damaging it, there's zero reason to reduce raid damage so someone can feel better about their peen. If the paladin's tanking and the WAR and the DRK are free to just go to town, it's helping the group, not hurting it.

 

PLD has next to no damage, but awesome defensive CDs and a skill that procs only when successfully blocking an attack (Shield Swipe) as well as a mana-regen skill (Sheltron) that guarantees that block.

 

Despite having Royal Authority and Goring Blade by endgame, there is no reason PLD should ever be OTing. People like to argue Clemency at this point, but when you factor in the fact that Clemency eats huge amounts of mp, and Shelltron provides a second form of mana regen available primarily for the MT, oddly enough, Clemency is more useful to the MT than it would ever be for the OT. More opportunities to use what is already a situational skill can only be a good thing!

 

All of this considered, there should never be a moment where PLD is OTing. The utility is just too good.

 

That's not how it works, though. Take a look at DRK's cooldown suite and explain how paladin comes out ahead. Look at WAR's and tell me how it comes out ahead. Paladin is behind both offensively by miles and defensively but enough for it to make no sense to use a paladin over one of the others. Sheltron guarantees a block, but still can't block magic, and that was the bulk of non-roulette damage for the almost-entirety of HW so far. Paladin takes as much damage as the others, and mitigates less and ends fights slower.

 

Also, Clemency isn't good. Three second cast, can be interrupted, and breaks combo. Anything that breaks combos isn't good. It's also something like 40% of your base MP, and even lining up sheltron and riot>goring to recover some, that's not enough to make up for the initial cost. And if you're spamming riot>goring for MP, you're not doing your job correctly. Paladin's in a bad state when compared to the other tanks. It's fine if its all you have, but the others will do the job better.

[Dat Oni]

That pisses me off, too. Paladin's plenty capable of holding threat as a MT, and since both DRK and WAR should be out-damaging it, there's zero reason to reduce raid damage so someone can feel better about their peen. If the paladin's tanking and the WAR and the DRK are free to just go to town, it's helping the group, not hurting it.

 

PLD has next to no damage, but awesome defensive CDs and a skill that procs only when successfully blocking an attack (Shield Swipe) as well as a mana-regen skill (Sheltron) that guarantees that block.

 

Despite having Royal Authority and Goring Blade by endgame, there is no reason PLD should ever be OTing. People like to argue Clemency at this point, but when you factor in the fact that Clemency eats huge amounts of mp, and Shelltron provides a second form of mana regen available primarily for the MT, oddly enough, Clemency is more useful to the MT than it would ever be for the OT. More opportunities to use what is already a situational skill can only be a good thing!

 

All of this considered, there should never be a moment where PLD is OTing. The utility is just too good.

 

That's not how it works, though. Take a look at DRK's cooldown suite and explain how paladin comes out ahead. Look at WAR's and tell me how it comes out ahead. Paladin is behind both offensively by miles and defensively but enough for it to make no sense to use a paladin over one of the others. Sheltron guarantees a block, but still can't block magic, and that was the bulk of non-roulette damage for the almost-entirety of HW so far. Paladin takes as much damage as the others, and mitigates less and ends fights slower.

 

Also, Clemency isn't good. Three second cast, can be interrupted, and breaks combo. Anything that breaks combos isn't good. It's also something like 40% of your base MP, and even lining up sheltron and riot>goring to recover some, that's not enough to make up for the initial cost. And if you're spamming riot>goring for MP, you're not doing your job correctly. Paladin's in a bad state when compared to the other tanks. It's fine if its all you have, but the others will do the job better.

 

Then I suppose we'll have to see what 3.2 does for us.

[Warren Castille]

Then I suppose we'll have to see what 3.2 does for us.

 

Yep. People trying to get SE to understand this was likely the reason they kept saying things in Live Letters about "We can't just change a class, these things take time and research." It was established very early into Savage that Paladin wasn't holding up, and over time and people got better at the encounters it just stockpiled. Majority of players won't notice or care, but the disparity is there. It's not as bad as 2.0 Warrior but it's still questionable.

 

I'm cautiously optimistic about the updates, but this is SE. I'm not too optimistic.

[Dat Oni]

Then I suppose we'll have to see what 3.2 does for us.

 

Yep. People trying to get SE to understand this was likely the reason they kept saying things in Live Letters about "We can't just change a class, these things take time and research." It was established very early into Savage that Paladin wasn't holding up, and over time and people got better at the encounters it just stockpiled. Majority of players won't notice or care, but the disparity is there. It's not as bad as 2.0 Warrior but it's still questionable.

 

I'm cautiously optimistic about the updates, but this is SE. I'm not too optimistic.

 

Well, if it's any consolation, I've been cynical about SE, too.

[Aedan Marceaux]

PLD players are also the most likeable in my opinion, generally, since all the terrible players switched for something else META-compliant.

 

 It was once my main. I switched to DRK because of the numbers and the fact that, as of right now, it is more fun to play, imo.

 

 Ouch... why are you so mean?

 

But yes, as Warren pointed out... even defensively (now) paladin doesn't really outright beat the other two tanks.

 

I miss my sword and board.

[Valence]

As a heal I hug all the paladins. They are the most comfy to heal, just apply regen and forget about him until it's ready to apply another one... Then holy holy holy. Even better when a MCH or BRD is in the group, and the last one a summoner. Those poor mob stacks.

 

PLD players are also the most likeable in my opinion, generally, since all the terrible players switched for something else META-compliant.

 

I certainly didn't mean all the people that switched were terrible. I know a fair bit of tanks that got disgusted of their main PLD and switched out of options. That would be quite the non sequitur to assume that all the terrible players switching means automatically that everyone switching is a terrible player... :blush:

 

But maybe it's just personal experience of course. I just maintain it though: the most resilient tanks I ever have had the pleasure to deal with were PLDs. I dislike healing warriors, they are just huge HP sacks with no resists. A nightmare to heal. They suck all your MP in no time.

[Aaron]

It'd be funny if PLD come 3.2 just destroys the others.

[Martiallais]

It'd be funny if PLD come 3.2 just destroys the others.

 

It'll be like back in WoW when paladins got buffed to the heavens and were able to lounge in the sun, floating on the tears of our former oppressors.

 

Of course they were nerfed "into the ground" after that but..it was a wonderful time while it lasted.