The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales

[Warren Castille]

New Alex wings are definitely displaying the difference between tanks who know how to swap and those who don't. I've been pancaked in every single fight with stacks so far because the provokes never seem to happen until after the 30k buster lands on my face.

[Melkire]

New Alex wings are definitely displaying the difference between tanks who know how to swap and those who don't. I've been pancaked in every single fight with stacks so far because the provokes never seem to happen until after the 30k buster lands on my face.

 

Unless I'm very much mistaken, Midas in general constitutes the first piece of casual content (read: content that does not include cutting-edge progression nor Extreme/Savage variants) in which a tank swap is more or less required in order to mitigate a considerable amount of incoming damage.

 

I'm therefore not at all surprised that many tanks are still not well-practiced and/or well-versed in how to properly tank-swap in FFXIV.

[Sounsyy]

New Alex wings are definitely displaying the difference between tanks who know how to swap and those who don't. I've been pancaked in every single fight with stacks so far because the provokes never seem to happen until after the 30k buster lands on my face.

 

WHAT? Tank swapping is for STR tanks who don't have 30k HP to soak tank busters with no buffs!! /sarcasm totes kidding.

 

 

Midas has a few optional tank swaps, but whether or not they need to be executed (barring M2's required swaps) depends a lot on the MT and healer's ability to prep-heal. I actually didn't know there were tank swaps until week 2 because I got lucky with earlier groups...

 

M1: (optional) Not a true swap. OT should voke as soon as MT becomes concussed, which will redirect the tank buster onto the OT. MT can then voke/reclaim hate as soon as Concussion ends. OT can continue dpsing. Alternatively, MT pops mitigation buffs at 3 migraine stacks to prep for tank buster. Healers prep galvanize/stoneskin at Concussed.

 

M2: Required tank swaps during the 2nd and 4th bosses, both at 3 vulnerability stacks. The 4th boss's tank buster is what gives the vulnerability stack, so MT should prep cooldowns for that third hit. It usually comes either during Shiva Icicles or just after Ultra Flash.

 

M3: (optional) OT can elect to tank swap during Uplander Doom after the 3rd hit or so. Make sure if you do this you swap with defensive cooldowns up because Uplander Doom gives more stacks in later phases. If MT buffs with mitigation and convalescence, the healers shouldn't have any issue keeping MT up. It's usually only when MT don't buff Uplander Doom that they drop.

 

M4: (optional) During the first phase, tanks can swap immediately after every Perpetual Ray. This avoids having the tank with magick vulnerability taking the next three hits. Again, this can easily be mitigated/healed through by diligent tanks/healers who know what's coming.

 

 

Figured I'd throw something educational in with my shitpost. Oh, I have vent too! Faced more STR hate in DF recently. It hasn't been as bad as it was on patch day so it kinda threw me off, especially considering the math and new stat weights have been out for a week or better now. So listen, if you do not have WAR leveled past 15, have not researched its mechanics, and don't crunch stat numbers for my job - don't tell me what gear I should be wearing. If I want to know how to do 450 dps as a BLM, I'll be sure to come ask you.

[Warren Castille]

I know there's work-arounds for a good number of the busters and mechanics, I'm just always annoyed when I'm being murdered despite them because either my co-tank doesn't care to do anything besides his shitty leet deepz or the healers are unaware of how to do their part to negate them (or are expecting a swap, and not needing to heal 90% of my health after a buster shot).

 

I know DF will never be butter smooth, but we're not at the point where this stuff is faceroll. One of the healers asked me outright why I kept getting one-shotted, apparently completely unaware of how the debuffs work on Vortexer.

[Melkire]

I know DF will never be butter smooth, but we're not at the point where this stuff is faceroll. One of the healers asked me outright why I kept getting one-shotted, apparently completely unaware of how the debuffs work on Vortexer.

 

Relevant vent:

 

Queued for Expert Roulette the other day, ended up in Antitower with an SCH who was full-out gung-ho DPS and would remain in Cleric Stance with Selene out, frequently allowing me to drop below 5.k HP when I still haven't transitioned from a full STR build. Oh, and I'm i209 on WAR so there's THAT.

 

Never before have I had to be so methodical and meticulous in planning, using, and rotating my defensive cooldowns.

[GhostlyMaiden]

I know DF will never be butter smooth, but we're not at the point where this stuff is faceroll. One of the healers asked me outright why I kept getting one-shotted, apparently completely unaware of how the debuffs work on Vortexer.

 

Relevant vent:

 

Queued for Expert Roulette the other day, ended up in Antitower with an SCH who was full-out gung-ho DPS and would remain in Cleric Stance with Selene out, frequently allowing me to drop below 5.k HP when I still haven't transitioned from a full STR build. Oh, and I'm i209 on WAR so there's THAT.

 

Never before have I had to be so methodical and meticulous in planning, using, and rotating my defensive cooldowns.

 

This has happened to me before, but I wasn't the one in the tank seat. I don't often get SCH in my group, so this problem usually comes from the WHMs.

We once had a wipe because the healer was so distracted and trying to DPS. I'm fine with healers wanting to DPS, but you gotta know how to keep that balance. I am b no means the best healer, but at least I do my best to try to not get so distracted by trying to DPS.

[Valence]

It happened to me once... Only and single time in my healer life, I forgot to heal the tank... Just some days, your mind is elsewhere. I apologized after that.

 

Shit can happen.

[Nebbs]

Yea str build tanks and dps ing healers... Why make life easy. Might as well do Drg tanking too.

 

I'm always in vit tank mode I figure it helps iron out things, also PLD heals ftw  

 

Healing wise I will DPS but more than once CS is still up as I fumble the switch. I do note that white mages doing a few holy comes with stun, that cuts damage.

 

Play in pugs as if all the others are idiots

 

Big expectations leads to disappoint.

[Warren Castille]

I can already tell that Alex is going to be a recurring source of Vent Tent material for me. It mostly has to do with tanks not knowing how to dual-tank something, but let's not forget the group that wipes to Hitlerfaust because they can't kill the minis before he lands.

 

He drops with 16 stacks of Damage Dealt Increased, by the way.

[Dat Oni]

I know DF will never be butter smooth, but we're not at the point where this stuff is faceroll. One of the healers asked me outright why I kept getting one-shotted, apparently completely unaware of how the debuffs work on Vortexer.

 

Relevant vent:

 

Queued for Expert Roulette the other day, ended up in Antitower with an SCH who was full-out gung-ho DPS and would remain in Cleric Stance with Selene out, frequently allowing me to drop below 5.k HP when I still haven't transitioned from a full STR build. Oh, and I'm i209 on WAR so there's THAT.

 

Never before have I had to be so methodical and meticulous in planning, using, and rotating my defensive cooldowns.

 

This has happened to me before, but I wasn't the one in the tank seat. I don't often get SCH in my group, so this problem usually comes from the WHMs.

We once had a wipe because the healer was so distracted and trying to DPS. I'm fine with healers wanting to DPS, but you gotta know how to keep that balance. I am b no means the best healer, but at least I do my best to try to not get so distracted by trying to DPS.

 

I was having this issue with healers long before the recent patch changes. I appreciate the extra dps, but only if it comes at the right time. I've had WHMs spamming holy while I drop to critical hp.

 

But none of that compares to the issue I'm having recently; these asshole healers who put a Regen on you RIGHT BEFORE YOU PULL A MOB.

 

Goddammit, people, do you not understand what I'm trying to do? Nothing pisses me off more than Shield-Tossing a mob just to watch the other 9/10s of the trash rush past me and begin aggroing everyone but me, while the healer stands there completely inert because he's typing that I should've moused over and removed the buff that shouldn't have even been there to begin with.

 

 

Fuck that shit.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I know DF will never be butter smooth, but we're not at the point where this stuff is faceroll. One of the healers asked me outright why I kept getting one-shotted, apparently completely unaware of how the debuffs work on Vortexer.

 

Relevant vent:

 

Queued for Expert Roulette the other day, ended up in Antitower with an SCH who was full-out gung-ho DPS and would remain in Cleric Stance with Selene out, frequently allowing me to drop below 5.k HP when I still haven't transitioned from a full STR build. Oh, and I'm i209 on WAR so there's THAT.

 

Never before have I had to be so methodical and meticulous in planning, using, and rotating my defensive cooldowns.

 

This has happened to me before, but I wasn't the one in the tank seat. I don't often get SCH in my group, so this problem usually comes from the WHMs.

We once had a wipe because the healer was so distracted and trying to DPS. I'm fine with healers wanting to DPS, but you gotta know how to keep that balance. I am b no means the best healer, but at least I do my best to try to not get so distracted by trying to DPS.

 

I was having this issue with healers long before the recent patch changes. I appreciate the extra dps, but only if it comes at the right time. I've had WHMs spamming holy while I drop to critical hp.

 

But none of that compares to the issue I'm having recently; these asshole healers who put a Regen on you RIGHT BEFORE YOU PULL A MOB.

 

Goddammit, people, do you not understand what I'm trying to do? Nothing pisses me off more than Shield-Tossing a mob just to watch the other 9/10s of the trash rush past me and begin aggroing everyone but me, while the healer stands there completely inert because he's typing that I should've moused over and removed the buff that shouldn't have even been there to begin with.

 

 

Fuck that shit.

 

Click it off and then tell them.

 

Unless they're putting regenerate on the entire party, you can right-click on the buff to remove it.

 

Or do my way. Just stand there until it expires while typing "Please don't cast an regenerate spells before I pull the mobs or you may end up as the tank."

[Kage]

I can already tell that Alex is going to be a recurring source of Vent Tent material for me. It mostly has to do with tanks not knowing how to dual-tank something, but let's not forget the group that wipes to Hitlerfaust because they can't kill the minis before he lands.

 

He drops with 16 stacks of Damage Dealt Increased, by the way.

 

I think I mentioned it before but last week I was clenching my buttcheeks so hard because we were at 1% with the last add when he dropped and the other tank eventually dropped and I had to pick him up. Cry of relief and also trepidation when we killed him and moved on. The rest was normal.

 

All my abandons (2, 3 max?) were in A8 where some tanks will insist on not switching when their healers are clearly not prepared and then say "this is why we dont tank swap" or nevermind how one DPS was DC'd for the whole fight.

 

I always check for HoT buffs, the problem is when you've just thrown a shield/axe/weDRKdoes or Voke for a controlled long range pull and you get a Regen on. An Extra Overpower takes care of that. Or I start making smaller pulls

[Paradox]

My beef, as someone who also heals,  is with healers who think prioritizing dps over healing makes any sense. Especially in Alex or Void Ark. You rolled a healer, motherfucker. If you want to sit and do nothing but dps, then roll a black mage like the rest of us. I know you want to be out of the dungeon fast so you can go back to doing..whatever it is you do when you're not fucking up being a healer. Healers helping dps is fine. Even I flip stances sometimes now even though it was anathema to me for the longest time (mostly because my machine is old *and* my net is shit,  and shit happens before it responds half the time). But. When you're running Void Ark like the one I was in last week, and the WHM is in cleric stance for every fight, and won't even drop out of it to heal, and doesn't even rez when people die. Nope, gotta get those big dps numbers! Then I seriously question if the person knew they were rolling a healing class. A whm or scholar doesn't need to be in perma-dps for 4 man dungeons either. They end so fast, it really doesn't matter. Well, unless it's Neverreap, but fuck that dungeon.

 

It also doesn't help when groups refuse to stand within healing range. Cuchulainn fight is a huge offender for this. Even when people put down group indicators of where your group needs to roughly be, they run to the other side and we can't heal them. Then they bitch when they die, wondering why we weren't healing. Because you were FIFTY FUCKING YALMS AWAY, YOU DEGENERATE. Running through the pools of poison to heal a few guys that just had to run to the other side of the room for some reason is not acceptable, because then the healers have a higher chance of biting it. Then EVERYONE suffers. It goes like this, honestly.

 

[Gegenji]

 

 

It's worse when you have another healer with you that's doing that. Or just failing in general. Then you're stuck basically doing twice the healing. Nothing feels better than feeling like you're doing a job for two... and then they get the loot. Wee, thanks for that; get rewarded for my work, that's cool.

 

Or better yet? The Midas run I did yesterday where I was doing all the rezzing. As a SMN. Not even healing - I'm the only DPS that can rez in combat and I'm spamming that because the healers can't be assed to do it. And no commends for it. Such fun.

 

And that second image is basically me in PuGs. Especially recently when I was having BOTH DPS running ahead and pulling stuff in a dungeon run. I was a tank then, but it still applies I think. "You pull it, you tank it. Have fun." At least until the healer starts healing them anyway - promoting the negative behavior - and you end up jumping in so THEY don't die because the LEET DEEPS won't be able to maintain aggro over the healing.

[Warren Castille]

Wrong. If someone who isn't the tank pulls, you let them die. If the healer heals them, you let them die. If they managed to not need you, run ahead to pull the next pack before they can kick you. Hashtag tank life, with life spelled with a "y."

[Swashbuckler]

Wrong. If someone who isn't the tank pulls, you let them die. If the healer heals them, you let them die. If they managed to not need you, run ahead to pull the next pack before they can kick you. Hashtag tank life, with life spelled with a "y."

So much this.

 

I had a DRG pull on one of my first runs of M1 (or A5) and I was an AST. The other healer (WHM) healed them so I just stood there healing the tank who was trying to take aggro. The DRG, unsurprisingly, died.

[Klynzahr]

 

Click it off and then tell them.

 

Unless they're putting regenerate on the entire party, you can right-click on the buff to remove it.

 

Or do my way. Just stand there until it expires while typing "Please don't cast an regenerate spells before I pull the mobs or you may end up as the tank."

 

Here comes a vent from the other side of the fence....

 

As a WHM who tries to be very kind to her tanks, I absolutely hate it when a tank can't make up their mind how much to pull. Again and again I will watch tanks pull 1-2 trash packs and then dilly dally around trying to decide if they want a third.... meanwhile their health is dropping dangerously, my finger is hovering over the button, and eventually I slam Regen + Tetra..... right before they grab the last pack and it all aggros to me.

 

This goes right along with those tanks, who pull a group, stop just long enough for me to start regen and place my bubble, then run out of it to grab the whole room.

 

Seriously? I am doing everything that I possibly can to make your life easy, but you still run out of my bubbles and force me to stand right on top of you while you reestablish your aggro? :cry:

[Paradox]

When someone else pulls, I will heal them anyway for one reason. If the dps dies, I have to rez them. Rezzing takes more MP than a few heals for a stupid person. Plus it means I'm not healing the poor tank who's trying to grab everything the idiot pulled. And usually, a tank can pull aggro back off. I'm also a healer than when I do pull Aggro, I RUN TO THE TANK. Then I stand there and trust my tank. It's not that hard. I wish more healers knew how to do this. But I can't sit there and let the idiots die, because then we might wipe because I was vindictive towards their stupidity and then it really will be my fault. I prefer to continue to do my job even if others can't. That way I know I did well, you know?

 

Unless it's a ninja. Oh man, I love seeing those little fuckers die because they think they're AGI tanks and go on a pulling run. Heh heh. But no, I get they should learn not to be stupid, but I'd rather not have to sit in queue waiting for another tank for 20 minutes, or have to requeue, which sadly is usually what happens if you let people wipe for being dumb. Plus on top of that, I don't want to punish my whole group if there's only one idiot. Now, in a raid, I have no compunctions about letting single idiots die. But in 4 mans I just try to keep my cool about it, you know?

 

If the whole group is being stupid though, that's when I put on my sunglasses at night and just be like. "Nope, I'm out."

[Klynzahr]

My recommendation is to let those Dumb DPS get really low on health, while emoting /disappointment at them. Then at the last second smack benediction or tetra, just to give them a good scare. By that point they have probably killed off a few mobs and it's not hard to heal through the rest of the pack.

 

If the tank goes ahead and tries to pull off of them, I just don't heal the DPS at all. Let them sit at half HP through the next few pulls and really think about the wisdom of their decisions.

[Valence]

My recommendation is to let those Dumb DPS get really low on health, while emoting /disappointment at them. Then at the last second smack benediction or tetra, just to give them a good scare. By that point they have probably killed off a few mobs and it's not hard to heal through the rest of the pack.

 

If the tank goes ahead and tries to pull off of them, I just don't heal the DPS at all. Let them sit at half HP through the next few pulls and really think about the wisdom of their decisions.

 

I like that... I should do the same someday.

[Aaron]

Lol when dps pull without me I literally sit down and target them, and watch the adds go back to passive after they kill em.

 

Sure they throw a fit after but they either shut up or leave when I ask if they'd rather tank.

 

I give no fucks about people feelings when I'm trying to go through a dungeon without trying to pull of a dps.

[BroodingFicus]

My recommendation is to let those Dumb DPS get really low on health, while emoting /disappointment at them. Then at the last second smack benediction or tetra, just to give them a good scare. By that point they have probably killed off a few mobs and it's not hard to heal through the rest of the pack.

 

If the tank goes ahead and tries to pull off of them, I just don't heal the DPS at all. Let them sit at half HP through the next few pulls and really think about the wisdom of their decisions.

 

It really does work. I do that with dps who intentionally eat mechanics (lookin at you BLM's who refuse to step out of your circles). I don't let them die but near death is a strangely potent motivator. 

 

Now as far as pulls go it really depends. If it happens once I'll help the dps even if it means healing and pulling the mobs to the tank once they are on me. However I remember I was running a Brayflox normal with a tank friend of mine, a sprout pugilist and a synced bard and we most certainly let the bard die. The moment we were almost done killing a pack he would take off running and shoot the mobs or the boss that was next. On the 2nd boss he very nearly locked us all out. We asked him to stop and got no response so on the last boss the tank and myself stayed outside on purpose. We apologized to the new person, kicked the trouble maker and got a new dps.

[cuideag]

I had a laugh in Midas earlier this week when some ding dong MNK decided he'd shoulder tackle a boss and just start wailing away at him. My fellow healer and I sat back and watched as he died two auto attacks later. Then he immediately dropped group.

 

Yeah. Healer Shade is real and I LOVE IT.

[Jana]

I'm pretty impatient as a DPS, so if I'm falling asleep and the other DPS seems capable, I'll usually just tell the tank I think we can handle more. Sometimes they'll answer, sometimes they won't say anything, but in the end, I'm the one who has to wait for a queue if I try to force it.

[Delilah Scythewood]

Fucking.

 

Stupid.

 

gjhskjglgdlkbjo;zbhiu;gdbj

 

DON'T PULL AN ENTIRE ROOM BEFORE I FINISH CASTING PROTECT AND GETTING MY FAIRY, YOU DICKWAFFLE.

 

*Stomps over RIP Tank corpse*