Warrior or Paladin?

[Fotix]

Big axe? Or sword and shield? Aesthetics aside, however, what really should go into a decision between pursuing Gladiator/Paladin VS Marauder/Warrior? Those of you that have played both or been in groups with both, what really defines a Warrior over a Paladin? Or vice-versa? All insights appreciated!

[Gegenji]

Mechanics-wise or from an RP standpoint? Because I'm pretty sure there's a decent thesis in each.

[Fotix]

Just added a poll. Enjoy! And please vote~ :thumbsup:

[Fotix]

Mechanics-wise or from an RP standpoint? Because I'm pretty sure there's a decent thesis in each.

 

Why not both? I want to encourage all types of insight!

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Mechanics-wise or from an RP standpoint? Because I'm pretty sure there's a decent thesis in each.

^deifnitely so.

 

But for a gameplay argument....what do you like more? Damage sponge or damage mititgation?

 

Warrior is gonna be your damage sponge. They like running around and hitting things. Think....a more DPS-based tank. I find it to be a faster play style, as you must always stay active.

 

Paladin is your knight in shining armor. What they don't have in HP like a WAR, they have in defensive skills and mitigation. I find this to be a slower playstyle, as you don't have to constantly fight to keep your enmity. (You might be using flash, or have Shield Oath up, or something)

 

 

edit: saw the updates.

 

From an RP standpoint, I have no idea. I'll let the other lovely people help out with this.

[Coatleque]

I haven't bothered to level warrior at all, but from what I hear of others they have a larger health pool than Paladins. From a tanking standpoint, they do more damage but also have fewer mitigations so they can potentially take more.

 

Paladins do less damage, have less health, but have more "Oh s#!+" buttons.

 

From an RP standpoint, in as few words as possible, you can think of it as Barbarian vs. ... well... Paladin.

[Fotix]

No one has voted yet? C'mon don't be shy! It's totally anonymous 

[Gegenji]

Hm, let's see here, then. I'm not super-strong the lore, so someone like Sounsyy could probably run circles around me, but I'll give it my best.

 

Gladiators are, from how they're portrayed in game, show-fighters who fight on the Bloodsands of Ul'dah. Fighting for riches, glory, or just for the thrill of the fight. Of course, you're not limited to this and can just visit the guild to work on your sword and board skills, such as Chachan does.

 

Paladins come in two forms. The first and most high profile is the Sultansworn, basically the personal knights of the Sultana. They serve her first and foremost, even above other issues, though Nanamo does seem to have a sympathetic ear for the plight of her people. Those Paladins who are not bound to the Sultana and seek to serve elsewhere or Eorzea in general are known as Free Paladins.

 

Mechanically, GLD/PLD is a cooldown-based tanking class. You won't have as much health as a MRD/WAR, but you will have so many more cooldowns you can burn to keep yourself alive. Regardless, the class has the ever-useful AoE enmity move Flash and the aggro-grabbing Provoke that you'll want no matter which tanking class you play.

 

Now onto the one I know a bit less about...

 

Marauders, on the other hand, are basically a more structured and legal version of Eorzean pirates, since the axe is the common pirate weapon there. They're known for their brute force and their intimidating prowess.

 

Warriors are those who have learned to tap into (and hopefully control!) their Inner Beast. This skill is mainly known and passed down through a tribe from (quick Google search...) Ablathania's Spine. Should you seek to learn the ways of the Warriors, you must needs seek one of them down. Or be a member of the tribe yourself...

 

Mechanically, MRD/WAR is a... management-based tanking class, I suppose? Once you get into Warrior, you use Defiance and build up stacks of Wrath that you then spend on abilities. These abilities include bolstering your defense, removing the damage penalty from your Defiance stance, and other tricks. Rather than using defensive cooldowns, you're a big wall of meat who uses abilities like Bloodlust and Mercy Stroke to supplement the healing being thrown your way.

[Nebbs]

Warrior - damage sponges, require more to heal but has some nice bonuses for backup dps and stuff. Good in low level dungeons when you get nerf-synced. if they want they can generate huge aggro.

 

Paladin - really only a tank, with is excelent mitigation and cool downs for protection, need less to heal. Not great in low level dungeons when you get nerf-synced.

 

Dark Knight - oooh dark, did I mention they are dark?

 

Other tank mentions

• WHM - you aggro machines! They dies quite fast.
  
• DRG - okay for a short period, like an add on Titan Ex or Garuda Ex, but can think they are somehow a real tank
  
• Monk/Ninja - why?
  
• Bard - see the bard, see the bard run, see the bard keep running, see party groan.
  
• Summoned creature - sneaky aggro stealer at the start of a pull or when sneaking past
  
• Chocobo - lol.. lol.. lol
  

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Warrior - damage sponges, require more to heal but has some nice bonuses for backup dps and stuff. Good in low level dungeons when you get nerf-synced. if they want they can generate huge aggro.

 

Paladin - really only a tank, with is excelent mitigation and cool downs for protection, need less to heal. Not great in low level dungeons when you get nerf-synced.

 

Dark Knight - oooh dark, did I mention they are dark?

 

Other tank mentions

• WHM - you aggro machines! They dies quite fast.
  
• DRG - okay for a short period, like an add on Titan Ex or Garuda Ex, but can think they are somehow a real tank
  
• Monk/Ninja - why?
  
• Bard - see the bard, see the bard run, see the bard keep running, see party groan.
  
• Summoned creature - sneaky aggro stealer at the start of a pull or when sneaking past
  
• Chocobo - lol.. lol.. lol
  

 

 

...I think it's because in 1.0, MNK and DRG actually had some tnak-like abilities. ...and you could use them as tanks in some situations. But 1.0 was weeeiirrddd

[Kage]

Paladin is the definition of a sword and board tank imo. You sit there, grab agro and you take them hits.

 

I've always loved sword and board so Paladin is my go to.

 

DPS wise, they're not horrible either. Sword oath + STR attribute + STR accessories? WOOOOOH~

 

But it really is more of a 1-2-3 class.

 

A great Warrior is definitely an asset. They know how to rotate cooldowns so those big hits don't scare the healers so much. They also take agro like a sponge, don't need to worry about hate with them. Usually. If they remotely know how to play their class/job. It is definitely more involved than Paladin is game play wise.

 

OTHER TANK MENTIONS?:

SCH

BLM

 

heh

[111]

Paladins rule, warriors drool. Just kidding

 

They're sort of wierd. Warriors are a lot more bursty than Paladins, and they do more damage when tanking, and can take bigger hits, since they can increase their HP Pool and their defenses.

 

Paladins take less damage overall, due to their shields and abilities, making them more mana efficient to heal. However they do relatively poor damage while tanking.

 

Strangely enough though, Paladins tend to do more damage than all but the pro'est of warriors while off tanking. Since Sword Oath actually improves their damage, as opposed to clicking off defiance.

 

I think PLD is easier, but warrior is more fun. But I am lazy so I play PLD.

[Gegenji]

Had to make a minor edit to my thing. I keep typing Sultansword instead of Sultansworn for some reason. I now need a weapon called the Sultansword, bequeathed by Nanamo to the greatest Paladin...

 

But yeah, there's quite a difference both mechanically and from a lore standpoint. It's hard to vote for one or the other because that would be based on our own personal preferences and the personalities of our characters. It's hard to say which one would better fit yours without knowing more about them!

 

On the plus side, you don't have to lock yourself to one choice or the other! The other class is just a weapon change away! Try them both out, see which one you like more. Even if you picked one as your character's IC class, there's nothing saying something couldn't happen that could make them put down the sword and board and take up the axe (Like our own Steel Wolf!)!

[Aaron]

PLD is easier, WAR is supposedly more gun because there's more rotations.

 

WAR also hold aggro better. I had a experiment where two PLD tried to take aggro from a WAR, PLD IF THEY DID TAKE AGGRO (Unlikely) could only hold it for a few seconds before a WAR took it right back. Even with provoke.

 

Over time though PLD will eventually match WAR aggro. But PLD is more a wall that can't be broken and WAR is a hammer that breaks anything. 

 

However if a WAR& PLD traded blows at each other my money is on the WAR (My pride as a PLD SORRY) simply because imo offense > defense

[Nebbs]

..DPS wise, they're not horrible either. Sword oath + STR attribute + STR accessories? WOOOOOH~

 

But it really is more of a 1-2-3 class.

 

..

 

Yes I have a set of DOS accessories for those stupid light runs where no one waits, So I loose 1k HP, I do huge aggro

 

1-2-3 + CDs + the whole tanking thing, which is the real art.

 

Seriously if tanking was easy more would play tanks.. I expect.

[K'nahli]

Warriors are nice for the extra damage on the side but they take a lot more work if you want to play them to near-maximum potential whereas with Paladins you can pretty much take things lazily and not worry so much about aggro when it comes to end game.

 

 

Combos:

When it comes to Paladins, they have a three-skill-combo that is all that you will be doing for most fights along with a couple of skills that are off global cooldown. Outside of that combo you will only be popping buffs of some sort. A secondary, two-skill combo exists but is used primarily for large mob pulls as it regenerates MP needed for your AoE, enmity-generating skill; Flash.

 

Warriors have two, three-skill-combos combos that, unless you are choosing to be lazy, you will be using in most fights. One being the enmity generating combo and the the other being a damage boosting(for both you and melee DPS) OR damage mitigating combo, depending on the final, third skill you attach to it.

They have two skills off global cooldown like Paladin, but one's potential use is subjective to the boss/mobs you are engaging(see: Stuns) and another that can only be used when less than 20% health is remaining on your target.

 

Stuns:

When it comes to stuns, both have advantages and disadvantages. Paladins have a stun that is on global cooldown and therefore only has to wait little over two seconds before it can be reused, unlike Warriors who have a 30 second cooldown.

 

In general, Warriors have it easier since its boss stuns that you will really want to have the advantage with and they can use their stun exactly when they need it. Paladins however need to wait for the stun to come off cooldown if they have just used another skill, and that can be scary for some fast-casting skills by the enemy.

 

Having said that, Paladins have a silence(off GCD) and Warriors do not.

 

 

Noteworthy Skills:

Aside from typical mitigation skills, Paladins have two nice skills called Cover and Hallowed Ground.

 

Cover allows you to take all physical damage directed toward a particular party member for ten seconds(so long as they stay within relatively, close range) and is one of those skills I love getting the chance to use since who doesn't like being helpful?

 

Hallowed Ground is a 10 second invulnerability skill(with a massive cooldown) that basically gives you a temporary godmode that is very handy for those rare instances where your healer fails and its down to you/(and your DPS) to finish off the remainder of the fight or incur a reset. It's also a safety net for mistakes made by your party that may imminently risk your death and also a way to take a load off of the healer during significantly, large mob pulls.

 

Warrior has a sort of similar skill to Hallowed Ground with the exception that you only get six seconds worth of it and your health will continue to decrease(just not past 1 hp).

 

 

Summary:

So put it simply, Paladins are great for tanking but Warriors have a great potential to, simultaneously, significantly increase the DPS output and, if you put some time into learning and understanding the class better, you can do some serious self-healing and work your way out of dangerous situations that a Paladin could not without the aid of a healer.

[Sounsyy]

I main both WAR and PLD and have played them both in all content from speed running dungeons to final coil. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference and playstyle as neither WAR nor PLD outclasses the other in a way that would make the other tank obsolete. Each class simply fills different niches of tanking. As such, I recommend leveling both for a few different reasons. 1) You may find you prefer one over the other and not the one you expected to like. 2) Both tanks require cross-class abilities from one another. 3) When you get into 8-24 man content, where there are more than one tank, it's important to know just how the other tanks function in tandem with each other.

 

 

(PLD) Paladins are your classic mitigation tanks. They have lower HP than their Warrior counterparts, but make up for it with a latent 20% damage mitigation from Shield Oath and several other buffs which reduce the amount of all incoming damage by significant percentages. However, these abilities are on long cooldowns, which is where the trick of playing PLD effectively comes in - which is cooldown management. Knowing when to pop which cooldowns and sticking to a cooldown rotation in order to maximize your mitigation and minimize Healer's resources keeping you up.

 

PLDs generally are not (but can be!) strong attackers. They have a single Enmity (Hate/Threat) weaponskill combo which you'll spam until the end of time to gain hate. And an additional weaponskill which restores Mana for Flash. PLDs have two AoE spells Flash and Circle of Scorn which are useful in gaining enmity on multiple enemies, but overall these abilities are kind of lackluster for overall hate generation.

 

I consider PLD the easier of the two tank classes to learn and is a solid choice for folks new to tanking in FFXIV or in general.

 

 

(WAR) Warriors, on the other hand, are your soak tanks and they can dish it almost as well as they take it. These tanks sacrifice damage mitigation for higher HP pools and moderate HP regeneration. Warriors generally have a better hate generation than your average PLD also because, unlike their PLD counterparts, Warriors must alternate weaponskill combo trees to maximize their damage or weaken their enemies' damage as well as maintain enmity against one or many enemies.

 

Warriors have an enmity tree, a damage tree, and a mitigation tree. And each of these weaponskill trees builds a stack of "Wrath." Each stack of Wrath improves a Warrior's critical hit rate and at 5 Stacks a Warrior can choose to spend these stacks on one of three high-powered abilities which function in tandem with the above weaponskill tress. You have one ability for AoE enmity (Steel Cyclone), one ability for damage (Unchained), and one for mitigation (Inner Beast). As a Warrior you'll need to learn when to use these abilities as their effects are short lasting.

 

Warrior is the more complex of the two classes (IMO), but, for me, it's more fun as WAR you are always busy maintaining buffs/debuffs/Wrath in an effort to hold hate and stay alive. WAR is for those adrenaline junkies who love watching their HP dive like a bungee jumper.

 

 

 

As for RP and Lore, Chachan did a pretty good job of that so there's really not too much to add. ^^ But if you have more specific lore questions feel free to ask! Or specific WAR/PLD tanking questions - I can answer those too. Hope this helps! ^^

[Gegenji]

As for RP and Lore, Chachan did a pretty good job of that so there's really not too much to add. ^^

 

I got praised by Lore-senpai! :love:

[K'nahli]

While I play and love Paladin as a class, I voted for Warrior simply because it is more complex and versatile in my opinion while NOT forcing you to adhere to it's slightly more, difficult playstyle.

 

That is to say, you can play a Warrior just as you would a Paladin if you really wanted. It's not advisable but if you like the class and are adverse to a lot of extras that can seem confusing at first then you can sure as hell do it.

 

I won't speak for coil though, I'm sure you need to step up and try more when it comes to that, haha.. 

 

 

**zero experience past T4 - - - zero experience as tank at all**

[Briggs]

I've raided with both.

 

I definitely prefer the paladin, but only because the standard skill priority is less complex than the warrior's.

[Melkire]

Sounsyy covered just about everything.

 

To sum up:

 

• Paladin is a standard "cooldown suite" tank. It's simpler.
  
• Warrior is an atypical "damage soak" tank. It's more complex.
  
• Neither is "better" than the other, as they're fairly well-balanced at the moment for most if not all levels of play.
  
• Most endgame raid teams will want one of each, so you won't be left out of content regardless of your choice.
  
• Which you should choose comes down to personal preference.
  

[Seriphyn]

I like Sounsyy's reply the best, I would second that. I would also second the idea that tanks should main both, to make them more versatile as a player.

[Fotix]

This has been and hopefully still will be a great thread for people trying to make this sort've decision. Keep it up!

 

Oh and fyi, I'm gong to start with Marauder/Warrior. As I train up Gladiator to reach Warrior, I'll get a feeling for that side of the stage as well. Perhaps I will ultimately be a renaissance man when it comes to tanks. I'll be them all! 8-)

[Aaron]

I have a feeling DRK is going to be a mix of WAR & PLD

[Ilwe'ran]

There is none better than the others, it only depends on what the player fancy. So.. Don't rely on people opinion, test both and pick the one you prefer. They share the gear now anyway, so nothing stops you to play both and just pick the one you fancy depending on your mood .