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Do the citizenry have rights?

Aduu Avagnar

By Aduu Avagnar,
in RP Discussion

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Marisa

Marisa

Posted
Posted

Well, firstly we need to establish the difference between a right and a privilege. Many see the difference as semantic, but privileges are things your government gives you because it feels you should have them. The idea behind a right is that they are given by god (or in this case, the Twelve), and that the government cannot grant them, it can merely protect them. By that same reasoning, it cannot lawfully take them away.  

 

What we know of Ul'dah suggests that it firstly, it does not have citizens. It has subjects. Citizens are all equals. Ul'dahns are subjects to their lords and their monarch. The nobles of Ul'dah appear to have rights, but the commoners likely do not. Rather, they have whatever privileges the Sultanate and the council allow them. These can, most likely, be taken away at any point.  

 

If, however, Nanamo successfully reforms Ul'dah into a Republic, then this would all change. Now I personally choose to serve an oppressive theocracy, so obviously my real-world morality does not carry over into Eorzea. However, from my OOC perspective, I do believe that the people of Ul'dah have a Twelve-given right to self-governance, and that it is Nanamo's responsibility as their leader to abolish both the monarchy and all forms of nobility.

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111

111

Posted
Posted

There are some things you should not try to read too far into.

 

Based on how primitive the lore panel has stated Eorzea to be, they probably have as many rights as a typical serf in feudal Europe.

 

WHAT WAS THAT?

 

LDUqjgT.jpg

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Kage

Kage

Posted
Posted

HELL YEAH THEY DO.

 

rLhXtMI.jpg

I'm not buying you dinner now.

 

I personally don't think that there really are many Ul'dahn citizens. Residents? Yes. Citizens? Well some of those sociology classes I took for GEs stuck with me.

 

Many RPers aren't participating in a civic duty. They don't have juries. Not many of them are in the Immortal Flames. There's certainly not many Brass Blades. Do I consider Sultansworns part of it? Hmm... maybe.

 

Do residents have rights? They have just about the basics. Crimes committed against them are still crimes. Do they have the -privileges- that citizens receive?

 

Well what can one do? Can't vote. Can't influence the law.

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Aya

Aya

Posted
Posted

I doubt the idea of "rights" is one that the denizens of Eorzea regularly traffic in.

 

Ul'dah has "The Law", which is unlikely to provide equal protection, but does offer some protection to the common people, and even refugees. This is not the same as Rights.

 

Limsa Lominsa, I would imagine, has the most modern concept of Rights.  Pirate crews traditionally functioned as murderous democracies, and the rights of crew to their share, and their say over who the captain is, would most likely play into the Limsan concept of politics and order.  Still, one does what the Captain says, and the routes to redress are limited.

 

Gridania strikes me, somewhat ironically given how its portrayed, as the most "repressive" of the city-states.  Being so easily victimized by the Twelveswood and the Elementals certainly has a lot to do with this: we do what the Seedseers say, because they are the seedseers.  There's not much else to it (except for a healthy dose of rather rational xenophobia tossed on top).

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Roen

Roen

Posted
Posted

I'd also like to point out that those Public Service Announcements are pure propaganda advertisements, not official statements of any official organizations.

 

It all began with the first PSA which was a sponsored advertisement.

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Roen

Roen

Posted
Posted

 

H-hugs aren't propaganda, Roen. :cry:

 

YES THEY DO, THEY SERVE THE PURPOSES OF THE HUG AGENDA.

 

It's up to Jana to stand up for the personal space of all!

 

THE HUG AGENDA!!! How insidious is this...!!!

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111

111

Posted
Posted

For a serious post, realistically now. None of the citizens have rights. In Ul'dah having enough money gives you 'rights' of a sort, since you can directly(syndicate) or indirectly(Bribes), influence the government of the city.

 

Other than that, they are all subject to laws, as others have said. However there is no 'magna carta' equivalent. If you are powerful enough, you can blatantly ignore the laws, especially if you own the police (Lolorito), or are rich enough (Prince Teledji).

 

If you are poor enough or on the outskirts of society, people can steal, hurt, or do whatever to you and no one cares.

 

Of course reality, and what Eva believes, are two different things.

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Seriphyn

Seriphyn

Posted
Posted

I doubt the idea of "rights" is one that the denizens of Eorzea regularly traffic in.

 

Ul'dah has "The Law", which is unlikely to provide equal protection, but does offer some protection to the common people, and even refugees. This is not the same as Rights.

 

Limsa Lominsa, I would imagine, has the most modern concept of Rights.  Pirate crews traditionally functioned as murderous democracies, and the rights of crew to their share, and their say over who the captain is, would most likely play into the Limsan concept of politics and order.  Still, one does what the Captain says, and the routes to redress are limited.

 

Gridania strikes me, somewhat ironically given how its portrayed, as the most "repressive" of the city-states.  Being so easily victimized by the Twelveswood and the Elementals certainly has a lot to do with this: we do what the Seedseers say, because they are the seedseers.  There's not much else to it (except for a healthy dose of rather rational xenophobia tossed on top).

 

Yes. This 100%.

 

In fact, an NPC in Middle LN mentions "Like everything in Limsa Lominsa, it was put to a vote". This is probably done within work groups, not Limsa Lominsa as a whole, otherwise there wouldn't be tension between the pirates and the Chief Admiral in what is technically a military dictatorship.

 

Keep in mind the contemporary concept of "rights" came from real-life European history. Eorzea has its own history. Take only what you can imply from dialogue within the game world. I've seen people conflate RL concepts into RP worlds without regard to where those former ideas came from originally.

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Sounsyy

Sounsyy

Posted
Posted

I don't think "Rights" are ever discussed verbatim in the lore, so we'd have to draw conclusions from what we know of each nation's government.

 

 

Ul'dah

 

A semi-bipartisan government ruled by one Monarch and six citizens making up the Syndicate. Those six members of the Syndicate are the six wealthiest citizens of Ul'dah. The Sultan(a) is from a royal bloodline. (Note: we've had two royal Bloodlines of Ul'dahn monarchy so far)

 

We can infer there is "freedom" of religion as the Ala Mhigan refugees are not forced to abandon worship of their god Rhalgr. However, citizens must pay a mandatory toll to worship in the houses of Nald'thal.

 

Crimes against the Sultanate are harshly punished, but the Brass Blades seem to have no restrictions on the extent of their executive powers. They beat, torture, rape, or pillage to achieve their goals. Authority figures either cast a blind eye to this or it is acceptable by law. Meaning law enforcement are above the law.

 

Speaking of laws, neither the Royalist nor Monetarist parties write laws. The Order of Nald'thal, the religious center of Ul'dah, writes the laws by which the Sultan(a) and Syndicate are bound. However, as one of the leaders of the Order of Nald'thal sits on the Syndicate...

 

Also, according to the recent 2.4 storyline, apparently the Sultan has the power to overturn these laws if he/she sees fit.

 

 

Gridania

 

Ruled by a the Seedseer Council, a group composed of the eldest Padjal, Gridania is bound by the Laws writ by the Elementals in the Pact of Gelmorra. An agreement made between Man and Elemental which allows Mankind to live among the Wood so long as they care for the Wood's wellbeing. Never take in excess, never bring harm to the Wood or those who live within it, and always give back what you have in abundance. Failure to uphold these basic principles brings on the threat of annihilation from the Elementals and banishment from the Wood for all eternity.

 

The Duskwights of Gelmorra are (interestingly) not beholden to the Pact of Gelmorra, as they had no desire to live within the Elemental's Wood in the first place.

 

 

Limsa Lominsa

 

Ruled by a Pirate Captain who has won/survived the Trident, a no-holds-barred gauntlet between the pirate crews. The winner of the Trident becomes Admiral of all vessels who sail in Limsa's waters.

 

Limsa Lominsans are noted as valuing freedom above all else and it appears that (before Merlwyb) there were very very few laws for its citizenry. Pirates will be pirates. However, when Merlwyb Bloefhiswyn took Admiralcy, she united all pirates under a document called the Galadeon Accord. This document, signed by the pirate captains of the Five Seas, united all Pirates under Limsa's banner in the war against the Garlean Empire. Pirates were given the title of Privateers and were paid for their piracy - so long as their piracy was directed towards the Empire and other enemies of the city-state.

 

Along this same line, there is also an unwritten law called "The Code," by which all Lominsan citizens are bound. This "Code" protects the freedoms of Lominsan citizens so long as they do not attempt to betray or infringe upon the freedoms of their fellow Lominsans.

 

 

Know it's not much, but that's about all the lore we have on laws and rights of Eorzeans. Hope this helps! ^^;

3
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Yssen

Yssen

Posted
Posted

The Duskwights of Gelmorra are (interestingly) not beholden to the Pact of Gelmorra, as they had no desire to live within the Elemental's Wood in the first place.

 

One small note worth mentioning here. It was not that the Duskwights did not wish to live in the Black Shroud. They just had no wish to give up their freedom and independence to be allowed to do so, after the Elezen were driven underground by the Elemental's invasion into the Shroud. The Elementals STILL ordered the destruction of Gelmorra after what became the Wildwoods accepted the pact, and what became the Duskwights refused it.

 

Whacky point to be sure, but important when discussing citizen rights and how they might be viewed. ^ ^

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