Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement

[Zelmanov]

I may be the bad kind of elitist when it come to PVE. 

 

I say this I decided to level all classes to 50. I did this to be able to obtain serenity and peace due to knowing what other classes are capable of and thus could not foist blame upon anyone but myself. However it gave me nothing but unbridled rage. I was much happier when I was DRG FER LIEF and in complete ignorance. 

 

Before it was

Tank lost hate to me? I'm a damn good dragoon, gotta let off.

 

now its

I've tanked higher ilvl's dps with lower gear, what the hell is he doing to not hold hate? Sucking on his toe?

 

etc. etc. 

 

Only got worse when I made a new character on Balmung for RP and started grinding to 50. I no longer had the "Everyone is a newbie" feel from back during early access. Returning to Ifrit NM, or Brayflox for that matter was absolutely PAINFUL. 

 

I was part of the first wave of a lot of things in this game, the originals that bashed their heads in trying to learn titan HM and then turning around to sell it for mad cash. The people that went in to kill Cadeuceus with barely any darklight gear, the ones that killed Raflesia first week and Imdugud the next. So I am one of those that spent the hours essentially hard memorizing not only my role but everyone else's, I can still enter t5 despite not having done it in 6 months+ and still can do it without mistake. So of course I've been bred in an environment whereupon perfection is key.

 

It is that same environment where a player realizes that they did not know how to play their class correctly. Its not until you fail to kill that monster wave in t4 or fail to kill the heart in Titan HM with a full party that you realize you are not pulling the weight required. I remember being at the t4 roadblock and realizing that the blackmage wasn't using raging strikes. We fixed that and his numbers went through the roof and we passed the AOE phase. This was before people started to realize that 99% of the time, burn your cooldowns when they are up was the way to go.

 

So, for people coming from my background, you get this perception of anything below raids and ex modes (and hard modes back in 2.0) was your "play time" things that did not require all your faculties on full blast at all times. that it is geared for people who do not know what they are doing. So I get very frustrated when people drop dead in crystal tower, syrcus tower, world of darkness, fall off in Titan HM, etc. Especially when they are decked out in gear I had bled heart and soul to pry off of twintania or Titan etc.

 

Yes, I am one of -those- who sees someone in full gerolt gear back at the beginning of 2.4 and groans internally about how he's a welfare i115. The guy who joins a "farm group" and ditches if there is more than one wipe in the first phase in the initial run. 

 

it is why I make it a thing to never really do demanding content with RP'ers not because I think RP'ers are bad but because I will definitely burn bridges. Who I am pushing to clear content and who I am as a person and especially in RP is so dramatically different its like a jekyll and hyde sorta thing.

 

How do I solve this however? Generally by being in a position of power to carry a group for the given thing. I always roulette as tanks because my ilvl will make me tank any way as a DPS and I can control the speed of the pulls (I lean on fast) I tend to join trials as DPS to minimize time spent so less mistakes can be made. Though that has backfired once with me being i130 with 135 weapon on Ifrit HM with an sub i90 paladin tank. my 1-2-3 combo would tear hate.

 

I won't say I demand perfection 24/7. I won't crucify a dragoon for letting heavy thrust drop. I definitely believe in "acceptable autopilot" such as a tank that ONLY does his hate combo and keeps hate on all mobs but doesn't bother to try really hard to maintain dps or a WHM who dedicates their time solely to healing and not risking sneaking in DPS. 

 

What I will say is that a lot of people in game are not aware of how to play their job right, not that they are incapable of it, just that they do not know. There are SO MANY people that think Foe Req gimps Bard DPS when it doesn't. And a lot of those same people are the ones that don't like being told they are wrong. So they hide behind "elitist" 

 

perhaps I fit that definition, I prefer "Asshole" personally, but at least one that gets results >_>

 

Also playing the new Monster Hunter has helped me cool my ego a bit . I highly suggest it! Nothing better than getting one shot!

[Telluride]

Ye Gods, I certainly hope I'm not an Elitist...

 

I wouldn't think it in PVE for even a moment. I JUST got my first ilvl120 class recently, and I'm not really a raider by nature. I prefer to raid with RPers than RP with raiders, yes, I've said that before, but by it, I mean that I will never be in a server's top tier static for anything, and I can't really get along well with people who get TOO serious about their gear, to the point of judging others by it. The RNG has a part to play in it sometimes, y'know. That doesn't mean I look down upon them - It's WORK to get all that stuff, especially in an Asian MMO - but that while I take a raid seriously, in other words, try my best to know my role and do my part so we all get the goodies, it's not the main allure of a game for me.

 

As for RP... Nathan comes off pretty brusque, ribald and even snarky quite often, but that's not an indictment or judgment on the people around him. It's who he is as a character, and while he is provocative by nature, he's neither mean nor hostile about it. It's simply much easier to be a bit of a gritty bastard and work back to civil and respectful than to go in the other direction.

[Maril]

An example of what I've seen as RP elitism:

Mocking people for what they named their characters, RP or PVE-wise. No matter if it's straight up fanboying, non-lore compliant, or joke name. You don't know the history behind it. For a year? ish, the only way to change your name is if you server transferred with a 3 days' space in between. For some, that is just not doable (Raid for example). And then for some, they've been RPing with that non-lore compliant name for months that you just can't retcon their name into something that does comply with lore.

 

Though, I do have the right to raise a small questioning quircked eyebrow when your name is made to be political inciting (George Zimmerman, e.g) but I will never mock you.

 

Waiting for name-changes was the longest wait ; ;  When I found out that my characters original surname was more fit for an Elezen, I started thinking alternatives and because it was so early in, I had it in her story from the get-go that her real name was not her current name, and decreed the surname to be entirely OOC. I got some comments on it along the way, and a lot of pain with reminding people that the surname was ooc when people would accidentally mention it icly. As time went on, I unfolded a plotline wherein her real name was discovered and I was lucky to have the name change feature release shortly after, so I jumped on that. I will stress though that I decided to do this because I feel more comfy with having a name that is compliant to the naming convention for the most part. 

Whenever I see someone who has an odd name, I always assume that there's a story behind it and I wish more people would have that kind of response to it. 

 

If it helps, I quite like your name because it means cake in my native tongue and cake is the best :3

[Enla]

The danger of elitism is that you run the risk of alienating those around you, perhaps even people you do not know who happened to have a front row seat for one of your less than stellar moments only to have it ingrained in their minds going forward. First impressions are crucial, and I'm not going to lie, if someone is actively insulting another person for how they roleplay and especially doing so in a public forum then I in turn want nothing to do with them. With that said however, we all have our moments no matter how we might like to preach otherwise. While the above sentiment might be my gut reaction, I know that if I engage in such behavior I'm really no better and have simply taken another route towards being exclusionary.

 

I truly do believe that people have every right to their own preferences, but that shaming others for not adhering to your own brand of the koolaid is the fastest way to burn bridges there is in a game such as this. Be it for roleplaying or otherwise. Have preferences! Stick to them! But please do not insult others for - say - only posting dialogue because you see it as lacking, or in turn for posting paragraph long responses because in your mind it's elitist to do so. Yes, I have seen both arguments made, and while I personally prefer to write longer responses I don't see how writing less or more makes you a better or worse roleplayer. Like ArmachiA mentioned, it's all just stylistic differences at the end of the day. Such as the preferences for tavern scenes or grand adventures, or even something completely different. Wanting one over the other does not make you any less of a roleplayer, much like how it doesn't diminish others for holding those preferences. You don't -have- to interact with people whose styles do not match your own if that is your wish, but respect is still a crucial component at the end of the day. Being exclusionary to the point of insult really benefits no one at the end of the day.

 

Within the game itself, I really don't care so long as people do their jobs to the best of their ability. Sure, my FC mates can attest that I'll frequently start swearing when someone stands repeatedly in an AOE without trying to move or makes certain mechanics harder, but I'm not going to forcibly kick anyone from a party for not "pulling their weight". Everyone is in the process of learning this game, even those who have reached Final Coil might not know all there is to know about a specific class. Unless you have gun to your head, taking a few moments to talk with the other person if they need help or redoing a dungeon mechanic isn't going to be the end of the world. Is the latter annoying? Ooooooh yes. However I've found that most people who aren't "up to par" are simply in need of a little help and are actively trying to learn how to do things effectively. Sometimes I forget, to my shame, but offering help is still the best way to go in my mind. Conversely, if you're new and/or are struggling don't hesitate to ask for help!

[ChewableMorphine]

[align=center]Having a Zeta and bragging about it makes you an asshole. Good job on obtaining a weapon that's mildly better than Dreadwyrm. Also ram a cactus up your ass for bragging about a weapon in an MMO. This goes back to nerds fighting over who's the bigger nerd. It's not something to publicly be proud of. Get over it.[/align]

 

[align=center]/rant[/align]

 

 

if I went through the stupid amount of inane bullshit they make you go through for that weapon (which I prob. won't because it's just so incredibly grindy) i'd wanna brag too, that shit is soulcrushing

 

Working.

 

In video games.

 

Games that are for fun.

 

Okay

[Warren Castille]

Only the things I like are worth enjoying

 

What you sound like right now.

 

[ChewableMorphine]

 

[align=center]Having a Zeta and bragging about it makes you an asshole. Good job on obtaining a weapon that's mildly better than Dreadwyrm. Also ram a cactus up your ass for bragging about a weapon in an MMO. This goes back to nerds fighting over who's the bigger nerd. It's not something to publicly be proud of. Get over it.[/align]

 

[align=center]/rant[/align]

 

 

Calling bullshit simply because there's nothing wrong with being proud of achieving something that took over a year to see through. Bragging is one thing, being proud of your accomplishment is another.

 

Calling bullshit myself on most of that post simply because of how it's worded. By being so hostile to perceived elitism (or real elitism, because yea it's a thing), you too become an asshole.

 

Warren gets the point. Bragging =/= being proud. Bragging makes you a moron. Being proud is totally normal, and generally the point of the game. To win. To go about waving it around like "AHAHAHA CHECK OUT MY WEAPON IN WHICH I DEVOTED RIDICULOUS AMOUNTS OF TIME INTO JUST SO I CAN BE OPTIMAL" makes you look like a sad, sad person. That's like getting a rare skin in CS:GO or something, congrats on your thing nobody cares about. You're now kind of cool looking. Are you proud of all the time you wasted to get it?

[ChewableMorphine]

Only the things I like are worth enjoying

Strawman argument

 

Refer to above

[Warren Castille]

Only the things I like are worth enjoying

Strawman argument

 

Refer to above

 

You're still belittling the goals of others at the cost of sounding completely impartial. On one hand, I get it - It's some bits in a video game that ultimately have no bearing on life. On the other, who are you to tell people what's worth and not worth their free time? We're all paying real cash money so we can log into a video game and not play it so we can write fanfiction.

[Dravus]

I've never really bought into the idea that there's no accountability for somebody's actions just because it's a game. I also think a lot of people severely overestimate the extent at which those they brand as 'elitists' spend on worrying about someone's controversial character concept.

[ChewableMorphine]

Only the things I like are worth enjoying

Strawman argument

 

Refer to above

 

You're still belittling the goals of others at the cost of sounding completely impartial. On one hand, I get it - It's some bits in a video game that ultimately have no bearing on life. On the other, who are you to tell people what's worth and not worth their free time? We're all paying real cash money so we can log into a video game and not play it so we can write fanfiction.

 

No yeah that's completely true, the major thing I was criticizing were the people who pride themselves over other players for having a Zeta. In which I made the comparison to who's the bigger nerd. You're not better than anybody else, so stop acting like it. I probably sounded like I was shitting on Zetas in general, but I really meant the cold hotpockets who really think it makes you as cool as you think you are. I was just sort of typing out of my ass.

[Warren Castille]

Only the things I like are worth enjoying

Strawman argument

 

Refer to above

 

You're still belittling the goals of others at the cost of sounding completely impartial. On one hand, I get it - It's some bits in a video game that ultimately have no bearing on life. On the other, who are you to tell people what's worth and not worth their free time? We're all paying real cash money so we can log into a video game and not play it so we can write fanfiction.

 

No yeah that's completely true, the major thing I was criticizing were the people who pride themselves over other players for having a Zeta. In which I made the comparison to who's the bigger nerd. You're not better than anybody else, so stop acting like it. I probably sounded like I was shitting on Zetas in general, but I really meant the cold hotpockets who really think it makes you as cool as you think you are. I was just sort of typing out of my ass.

 

Gotcha. We can all agree that That Guy is a toolbag.

[Hyakki]

[align=center]Having a Zeta and bragging about it makes you an asshole. Good job on obtaining a weapon that's mildly better than Dreadwyrm. Also ram a cactus up your ass for bragging about a weapon in an MMO. This goes back to nerds fighting over who's the bigger nerd. It's not something to publicly be proud of. Get over it.[/align]

 

[align=center]/rant[/align]

 

 

if I went through the stupid amount of inane bullshit they make you go through for that weapon (which I prob. won't because it's just so incredibly grindy) i'd wanna brag too, that shit is soulcrushing

 

Working.

 

In video games.

 

Games that are for fun.

 

Okay

 

Playing video games.

 

For fun.

 

What kind of sicko does this?

 

I'm joking. Some people find grinds fun. I am not one of those people. Maybe if I had a reason (see: static) that would change but for now, I'd rather half-ass my way through things and have 'okay' gear.

[ChewableMorphine]

Strawman argument

 

Refer to above

 

You're still belittling the goals of others at the cost of sounding completely impartial. On one hand, I get it - It's some bits in a video game that ultimately have no bearing on life. On the other, who are you to tell people what's worth and not worth their free time? We're all paying real cash money so we can log into a video game and not play it so we can write fanfiction.

 

No yeah that's completely true, the major thing I was criticizing were the people who pride themselves over other players for having a Zeta. In which I made the comparison to who's the bigger nerd. You're not better than anybody else, so stop acting like it. I probably sounded like I was shitting on Zetas in general, but I really meant the cold hotpockets who really think it makes you as cool as you think you are. I was just sort of typing out of my ass.

 

Gotcha. We can all agree that That Guy is a toolbag.

 

No yeah no that was the point I was trying to get across (hence my utter toxicity in the post, because for real, you're a douchebag, That Guy). 'Pologies.

[Melkire]

-snip-

 

This. All of this perfectly sums up my feelings on elitism in MMORPGs. Sans the being-on-the-cutting-edge part because I rarely ever catch up and stay caught up if I haven't been playing since beta.

[Kellach Woods]

this thread is pretty much "hey why don't I have justification to act like a toolbag to people that displease me? please reinforce my view that i can treat people like subhumans if they do a thing that i do not like"

 

people on the internet sometimes.

[Kage]

Expecting people to perform at a certain competency and quietly grumbling about it != treating them like dirt.

 

/reply

[allgivenover]

Oh boy, that casual dismissive tone about how games are not supposed to be "work", this is one of my favorites.

 

One of the greatest feelings out there is having a career that you enjoy. When you like going to work because it challenges you in a good way and leaves you fulfilled.

 

Why wouldn't I want my games to be any different? The work I put into my games IS the fun for me. Hunting a new monster in Monhan, the difficulty of a Souls game, old school Megaman or Castlevania having punishing mechanics, and the joy of wiping over and over again in Final Coil until you get it right.

 

Yes it's work.

 

The work is fun.

 

[Verad]

Your post is, of course, in no way equally dismissive.

 

The image is coincidental.

[ChewableMorphine]

Oh boy, that casual dismissive tone about how games are not supposed to be "work", this is one of my favorites.

 

One of the greatest feelings out there is having a career that you enjoy. When you like going to work because it challenges you in a good way and leaves you fulfilled.

 

Why wouldn't I want my games to be any different? The work I put into my games IS the fun for me. Hunting a new monster in Monhan, the difficulty of a Souls game, old school Megaman or Castlevania having punishing mechanics, and the joy of wiping over and over again in Final Coil until you get it right.

 

Yes it's work.

 

The work is fun.

 

 

[align=center]Difficult =/= Tedious[/align]

 

[align=center][/align]

 

[align=center]420praiseit[/align]

[allgivenover]

Your post is, of course, in no way equally dismissive.

 

The image is coincidental.

 

I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic.

 

How exactly is it equally dismissive compared to this?

 

this thread is pretty much "hey why don't I have justification to act like a toolbag to people that displease me? please reinforce my view that i can treat people like subhumans if they do a thing that i do not like"

 

people on the internet sometimes.

 

and this?

 

 

Working.

 

In video games.

 

Games that are for fun.

 

Okay

 

I am explaining MY preference for games without criticizing or dismissing others preferred play style.

[allgivenover]

[align=center]Difficult =/= Tedious[/align]

 

[align=center][/align]

 

[align=center]420praiseit[/align]

 

 

So.. you understand where I'm coming from perfectly? I don't understand the point of your image response. Dark Souls is a game that many consider too much "work" and dismiss it because games are "supposed to be fun". The difficulty is the fun, you clearly get it if you play/enjoy Dark Souls.

 

Edit: whoops, missed the tedious bit. Well "tedious" is totally subjective and the only reasonable way to finish a discussion there is to say "to each his or her own".

 

Honestly though I think you're just here to pick a fight, no one here is the level of elitist douche that you're responding too.

[Verad]

I am explaining MY preference for games without criticizing or dismissing others preferred play style.

 

Which, of course, requires imagery depicting the modern action game as infantilizing the player. It's the only way.

[allgivenover]

I am explaining MY preference for games without criticizing or dismissing others preferred play style.

 

Which, of course, requires imagery depicting the modern action game as infantilizing the player. It's the only way.

 

Almost everything is infantilizing compared to Dark Souls. And seriously it's just a funny comic, I wouldn't over think it.

[Verad]

 

Almost everything is infantile compared to Dark Souls. And seriously it's just a funny comic, I wouldn't over think it.

 

It's okay to like overrated games. You don't need to dismiss others because of that.