[SPOILERS not hidden in SPOILERS] 2.55 Before the Fall Part 2

[Berrod Armstrong]

I am, however, really divided on whether or not Nanamo Ul Namo is actually dead or not? I saw her die... Yes. Nobody did anything to save her from choking on poison and her own vomit. But... why would anyone spread rumors of her still being alive? It doesn't make sense. The end game of Lolorito's plot was to kill the Sultana, frame the WoL/Scions, and use Teledji's greed and opportunistic nature to make him the perfect patsy, knowing he'd open his big mouth and Raubahn's immense anger issues would do him off. The Syndicate is now down to 4 and no Sultana.

 

So why then, if you HAVE an assassin, propagate a rumor that she's still alive? Unless she actually... somehow... managed to live? His whole fabrication hinges on the public believing the WoL killed the Sultana. There's no proof otherwise. IDK. Something about that just doesn't rub me the right way. Unless it's just NPCs wishfully thinking or someone else (not Lolorito) is spreading the rumor to sew hope back into the people of Ul'dah to prevent civil war between the Royalists and the Monetarists.

The bolded bit is exactly why I think they're trying to keep up the impression that they're still alive. An 'attempted assassination' can rouse people just as easily as an actual one, so it's easy to paint the WoL in Nanamo's blood regardless. 

 

I figure that they'll wait until they have a firmer grasp on things -- more control. And then announce that she 'succumbed' to her illness/the poison/whatever they're calling it. It's smart, since they'll be in a better position to handle anyone who wants to make something of it. 

 

Of course, that's just my thoughts! Eagerly waiting to see where Heavensward takes us.

[Aya]

Thank you for the lovely post Sounsyy!  I love the arch you've drawn out with the Ala Mhigans, talk about a serious and understandable source of tension and conflict.  That is so very very good. (And makes me worry somewhat for this Ishgardian Ala Mhigan doing just fine in Ul'dah).

[Dravus]

I find it very satisfying that it actually wasn't the Primals, Beast Tribes or Garleans that 'broke' Eorzea but Eorzeans themselves. It's rather poetic but then I've always been a fan of a hefty dose of tragedy in a story.

[Berrod Armstrong]

I find it very satisfying that it actually wasn't the Primals, Beast Tribes or Garleans that 'broke' Eorzea but Eorzeans themselves. It's rather poetic but then I've always been a fan of a hefty dose of tragedy in a story.

Funny you should mention that because my friend and I were discussing this from a, "Good lord, maybe they WOULD be better off under Imperial rule...!" perspective.

[Aya]

I find it very satisfying that it actually wasn't the Primals, Beast Tribes or Garleans that 'broke' Eorzea but Eorzeans themselves. It's rather poetic but then I've always been a fan of a hefty dose of tragedy in a story.

Funny you should mention that because my friend and I were discussing this from a, "Good lord, maybe they WOULD be better off under Imperial rule...!" perspective.

Psssh.  A little creative destruction is what makes the world go 'round.  Just ask Rhalgar

[Dravus]

I find it very satisfying that it actually wasn't the Primals, Beast Tribes or Garleans that 'broke' Eorzea but Eorzeans themselves. It's rather poetic but then I've always been a fan of a hefty dose of tragedy in a story.

Funny you should mention that because my friend and I were discussing this from a, "Good lord, maybe they WOULD be better off under Imperial rule...!" perspective.

 

It's largely why I'm hoping that when we finally see the Garlean Empire in all its full glory it'll be in a more sympathetic/morally grey light rather than 'standard evil empire with no redeeming qualities'.

 

Something along the lines of Archades in FFXII would be wonderfully satisfying! It'd certainly tempt Graeham to embrace his heritage...

[Aya]

It's largely why I'm hoping that when we finally see the Garlean Empire in all its full glory it'll be in a more sympathetic/morally grey light rather than 'standard evil empire with no redeeming qualities'.

 

Something along the lines of Archades in FFXII would be wonderfully satisfying! It'd certainly tempt Graeham to embrace his heritage...

I think the chance of that happening after they literally dropped a moon on Eorzea is nill.  I certainly hope that's the case.

[Gegenji]

It's largely why I'm hoping that when we finally see the Garlean Empire in all its full glory it'll be in a more sympathetic/morally grey light rather than 'standard evil empire with no redeeming qualities'.

 

Something along the lines of Archades in FFXII would be wonderfully satisfying! It'd certainly tempt Graeham to embrace his heritage...

I think the chance of that happening after they literally dropped a moon on Eorzea is nill.  I certainly hope that's the case.

 

Well, the whole Ultima Weapon affair also shows that not all Garlean organizations are acting in harmony. So, not only could you just have one rogue unit while the rest is okay... you could also have a rogue unit that's more for helping Eorzea than simply dominating it. So, even if the moon dropping is a sign of Garlean mindset as a whole, there's not thing keeping SE from having at least one unit that's all "Yeah... that was really stupid of us. We've been trying to clean up after that."

[Aya]

Well, the whole Ultima Weapon affair also shows that not all Garlean organizations are acting in harmony. So, not only could you just have one rogue unit while the rest is okay... you could also have a rogue unit that's more for helping Eorzea than simply dominating it. So, even if the moon dropping is a sign of Garlean mindset as a whole, there's not thing keeping SE from having at least one unit that's all "Yeah... that was really stupid of us. We've been trying to clean up after that."

I don't suppose I really mean that I hope there's no room for redeeming aspects.  Of course the Garlean Empire has redeeming aspects.  They just fade into complete and utter meaningless given the weight of their wickedness as its been put on clear display to Eorzea.  Any shift to establish them as anything but villains will really be impossible for me to swallow.

 

Edit: Not to say that there aren't interesting character archs that have characters doing just that!

[Dravus]

Perhaps I'm in the minority but I actually wanted the Warrior of Light to align himself with Gaius rather than Hydaelyn. Although Gaius resorted to extreme methods he never really struck me as being completely rotten to the core and the Eorzean leadership has proven time and time again that it leaves much to be desired.

 

We've also only really seen the Garlean Empire from the perspective of Eorzea which may very well be quite biased. Much in the same way as I suspect we'll find out that not everything is black and white in the war between the Ishgardians and the Dravanians.

[Aya]

Perhaps I'm in the minority but I actually wanted the Warrior of Light to align himself with Gaius rather than Hydaelyn. Although Gaius resorted to extreme methods he never really struck me as being completely rotten to the core and the Eorzean leadership has proven time and time again that it leaves much to be desired.

Well, you've at least made me realize that the MSQ could be worse.  Thank you Graeham ^_~

[Berrod Armstrong]

It's largely why I'm hoping that when we finally see the Garlean Empire in all its full glory it'll be in a more sympathetic/morally grey light rather than 'standard evil empire with no redeeming qualities'.

 

Something along the lines of Archades in FFXII would be wonderfully satisfying! It'd certainly tempt Graeham to embrace his heritage...

I think the chance of that happening after they literally dropped a moon on Eorzea is nill.  I certainly hope that's the case.

It may not be, considering the man responsible for it was considered mad even by the empire itself! Gaius never really struck me as a BAD guy so much as he did a ruthless guy who did what he had to do to reach his goals. I really like how both sides of the conflict are really -grey-.

[Dravus]

Perhaps I'm in the minority but I actually wanted the Warrior of Light to align himself with Gaius rather than Hydaelyn. Although Gaius resorted to extreme methods he never really struck me as being completely rotten to the core and the Eorzean leadership has proven time and time again that it leaves much to be desired.

Well, you've at least made me realize that the MSQ could be worse.  Thank you Graeham ^_~

 

To be fair I've never really been a fan of aligning with the 'good guys' who can do no wrong. I have a lot more respect for the developers due to how they had multiple 'good guys' screw things up. I feel like it makes the overall storyline more believable and less predictable than having everything work out alright.

 

It seems like the new Garlean Emperor is bad news though hopefully there will be a Gabranth or Drace in there somewhere to give us a more sympathetic look into the Garlean's military/society.

[Aya]

Gaius never really struck me as a BAD guy so much as he did a ruthless guy who did what he had to do to reach his goals.

Honestly... I would probably define "bad guy" as "a ruthless guy who does whatever he has to do to reach his goals."  That sounds pretty spot on! :-D

 

I do realize that what he's done is not fully endorsed by the Garlean Empire, but they are nonetheless acts of the Garlean Empire in Eorzea, and as far as any Eorzeans are concerned are official acts of the Empire.  Regardless, one cannot excuse the leader for acts of his subordinates (something we can draw parallels to easily with historical context).

 

The Roman Empire did expand its imperium through intervention in such local disorder (their conquest of Greece and Macedon, is a prime example).  They were also capable of acts of utter depravity - and so you can draw parallels.  But it would be very hard for me to swallow the idea that because their are corrupt Ul'dahn's (a tautology isn't it?) working together with an aggrieved racial group to bring Chaos to Ul'dah, that suddenly Eorzeans would (or should, in the grey-area proposition) prefer rule by the moon-droppers than by their own indigenous sort.

 

To be fair I've never really been a fan of aligning with the 'good guys' who can do no wrong. I have a lot more respect for the developers due to how they had multiple 'good guys' screw things up. I feel like it makes the overall storyline more believable and less predictable than having everything work out alright.

Agreed, agreed, agreed!!!

[Gegenji]

But it would be very hard for me to swallow the idea that because their are corrupt Ul'dahn's (a tautology isn't it?) working together with an aggrieved racial group to bring Chaos to Ul'dah, that suddenly Eorzeans would (or should, in the grey-area proposition) prefer rule by the moon-droppers than by their own indigenous sort.

 

Better the voidspawn you know, eh?

[Aya]

Better the voidspawn you know, eh?

Exactly!  And there's this whole issue that its only one city, and a city with a very resilient cultural structure that will probably survive the shock and continue to be the wealthiest and most comfortable in the land.  Ul'dah has nothing to gain via Garlean rule, and the others have even less so

 

Anyway, I'm just like rambling blah blah blah.  They could certainly craft a story whereby the Garelans become the heroes, but I don't really think the direction its gone so far is a case of that.  What they've done is set up a very dramatic and very believable situation based on political and cultural conflict in their most interesting city-state.  I really had my doubts about their story writing, but I'm really impressed by this last patch

 

"May you live in interesting times" never felt so relevant to an MMO.

[Dravus]

Yeah, this latest patch tied everything together very nicely whilst also leaving a lot of mystery as to what the future will bring. I haven't felt this excited about an MMO for years - so I can't begin to express how great it feels.

 

After WoW's 'story' began to take a questionable turn I was really starting to fear that I'd never feel the way I did back during WoW's 'golden age' but FFXIV has delivered again and again.

[V'aleera]

The biggest mystery to me is just who was pulling the strings behind everything. The Ascians, for once, seemed like nothing more than casually interested observers who simply shrugged after the events had played out and decided to move on toward interests in Ishgard.

 

But on the other hand the after the credits scene showed that for whatever he might have gained, Lolorito was not at all pleased.

[Kage]

Lolorito definitely didn't seem like all went according to plan. That shot of his mouth definitely made it seem like he was displeased. With what? According to the lady-in-waiting he planted, everything went well. So...????

 

Has anyone taken a new look at the Heavensward trailer after 2.55? What do you think?

 

The ending really hit me. My main started in Ul'dah. Every alt I've made has had their Ul'dah starting point. So to essentially be on the outs with the Brass Blades of Ul'dah (Most in Ul'dah such as the guilds, momodi and the Flames seem to be on your side) hits hard. Leaving Ul'dah the same way I came in. @_@

[Zyrusticae]

I'm glad I have an excuse to ask this now actually since I've seen it elsewhere today as well and the idea just absolutely boggles me, especially since you're certainly far from alone in this, but why on earth would you look up spoilers to a story if you're both interested in it and intend on experiencing it yourself?

 

I can actually answer this for myself since I'm the same way. Just *knowing* something is going to happen is very far removed from actually experiencing it. For me knowing whether or not a death was forth-coming (and in Nanamo's case, it was foreshadowed so much it was barely a spoiler) doesn't change how it affects me.

 

It may lose it's shock value (though in Nanamo's case, it really didn't with how vicious that animation looked); but it doesn't lose any of the emotional value. After all, I spent the past 50+ levels getting to know these characters, it doesn't matter if someone told me at Level 1 Thancred is a jerkface, Blue-Guy betrays everyone, and Princess gets her comeuppance; it won't un-immerse me or make me grow cold to the characters.

You guys get it.

 

In all seriousness, spoiler-phobia has spiraled out of control. The grand majority of the time (if not ALL the time) "spoilers" (which are, frankly, very poorly named) don't actually decrease one's enjoyment of a fictional work. It's not what happens that's important, but the how, and the particular execution of it all. That's why we can tell the exact same stories, mixing up a few elements here and there, and still have them be incredibly compelling despite knowing exactly how things are likely to end. The whole point is to get you invested into the story. You don't need mystery for that. You can build up suspense even while the audience knows it's all a ruse simply by doing so with class and nuance.

 

Now, obviously, if your work's entire purpose is built around the twist, you probably don't have a very good story to begin with. It's everything surrounding it that's more important. Too many folks don't seem to understand this and go absolutely crazy over spoilers FOR NO REASON. It's bonkers and it drives me up the flippin' walls.

 

I'd much prefer to be able to discuss plot details for recently released media without having to resort to private or specially segregated channels, but this madness has fully taken hold, and it seems there's no letting go.

[Gegenji]

But on the other hand the after the credits scene showed that for whatever he might have gained, Lolorito was not at all pleased.

 

I wonder if that has to do with the WoL escaping. The idea was to have him framed for the poisoning along with defaming the Scions as a whole. Instead, he got a conflict that resulted in an effective lynch mob needing to be sent out to detain them, supposedly massive losses to the Scions, and the WoL currently beyond his grasp in Coerthas.

 

There's something to be said about providing a scapegoat when things go south, and his only remaining option is Raubahn - the right hand (sorry not sorry) of the deceased Sultana. It was mentioned that it would be hard to get the populace to turn on the WoL... harder still against one of their more notable local figures.

 

Or, perhaps... just perhaps... not all of this was his doing. Guidance by another as you suggested, but it's also possible that Teledji either overplayed his hand or made changes that affected Lolorito's endgame. Maybe the Sultana wasn't supposed to die, perhaps Raubahn was to be a tool instead of a prisoner, perhaps Teledji was supposed to remain as Lolorito's front man.

 

Definitely a lot of potential explanations, and just as many unanswered questions to get us hyped for Heavensward.

[Dravus]

Different strokes for different folks. Some people are fine with spoilers, others aren't - it's a matter of etiquette and common courtesy at the end of the day.

[Chris Ganale]

Has anyone taken a new look at the Heavensward trailer after 2.55? What do you think?

What Heavensward trailer? The hell do you find it?

[Kage]

Has anyone taken a new look at the Heavensward trailer after 2.55? What do you think?

What Heavensward trailer? The hell do you find it?

The one they showed at Vegas fanfest. Where the Derplander becomes a Dragoon

 

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[Chris Ganale]

Oh, that one. Somewhere I'd gotten the impression that we were going to get the full version after the conclusion of 2.55.