Despite the scandal

[Hammersmith]

The points that humans are terrible fucking creatures is a valid one.

 

I think it's worth emphasizing again though that stuff like ERP preys on and points towards emotional entanglement on a scale that is beyond just gettin angry, gettin hilarious, or expounding on length about totalitarian regimes being worthy of blowing up.

 

Nerds are a clannish, cliquish (You notice how much 'us' vs' them' wording there is already in this thread?), closed off community at the best of times. (Yeah, sure, we welcome new folks but let's face facts: We're also our own worst gatekeepers.  I refer you to all the lore arguments and Cat-Goon worries as recent evidence y'honor.)  It means nerds bond harder than most people, when they think they click.

 

As I said before: This sort of thing aims at things Nerds are vulnerable towards: Loneliness, passion, attachment, possessiveness, and self esteem.

 

While all of those might align in any point in any situation, ever, ERP, relationship RP, and related facets of this strange, red, pulsing, wet jewel of a topic concentrate them all into a alluring diamond that serves as a bug zapper for nerd sensibilities, or even basic HUMAN sensibilities.

 

Us nerds just happen to get touched and set off in them easily given how deep those mental rivers we tote around run.

 

Be aware.  Be considerate. Be kind. Communicate.  This sort of stuff isn't dangerous until you make it, (Or worse, and more often: Someone else makes it) but it's real easy to make it disrespectful, or worse, dangerous if you aren't aware.  Don't take this as my saying it's your fault if something happens or goes wrong, just to be aware as you would and should be in the realms of relationships even if they're just IC.  You're dealing with a human behind that keyboard.  Don't fuck them over and up.

 

It's worth noting here: Out abusers.  Out them instantly.  Out them loudly.  Expose people who try to exploit.  Log things when they happen.  Keep them.  Bring it out into the open.  Do not let someone play the "Well I didn't" game with you.  Be prepared to drag people into the light of day and into Sony's harassment report system and laugh while you do it because You Are Good Enough and Worth That Protection.

 

Don't let anyone tell you different, don't let anyone else try to crush you to get what they want out of something.

 

Know that good people are around for you to lean on if you need it.  Lean on them, hard.  Get friends that will tell you when you're committing bullshit, and when bullshit is being committed on you.  It's the best defense.  The Best.

 

Like I said.  Be safe out there, human meat vessels.

 

It's a strange, wonderful, and sometimes sticky, world of storytelling.

 

Just because some people are terrible cannibalistic pigs in human skin isn't reason to avoid it.

[Nebbs]

ERP is a lot like sex in real life: You really should only do it with people you trust.

 

I am sure there is a Rule #34 equivalent here some place, the gap from "should" to what actually goes on is probably huge. In real life and consequently ERP.

[Dravus]

I've always felt as though a lot of role-players are far too liberal, loose and open when it comes to ERP. Much like in the real world I don't particularly care to know about the intricate details - even in passing - about people's bedroom activities.

It's a very private affair and that doesn't change simply because 'it's role-play'. That's a great way to sweep something under the rug and pretend as if it's irrelevant when it really isn't.

 

It's no secret that ERP is a massive source of drama throughout the role-playing community across numerous MMO's. I'm sure most of us have heard horror stories involving clingy individuals not backing off when they're told someone isn't interested in sleeping with their character. Or the grim tales about guild leaders/officers being seduced and led astray by manipulative individuals which then leads to massive drama as the guild ends up crumbling into dust.

 

I pride myself on honesty and so I'll state as a disclaimer that I've engaged in ERP myself. I've only ever done it with people I've known and trusted for months or years at a time though and when I do do it it's usually with one of my partner's characters.

 

ERP becomes something very dangerous when people try to approach it from the angle of it being completely justified. There's a time and a place for it, not everybody wants to get involved with it and many of those who do get involved are volatile and unpredictable.

 

...and as a final controversial point let me state that whilst I believe that ERP is a valid form of storytelling in many cases it's just a case of two people doing it because they want to get their rocks off. There's not necessarily anything wrong with that, mind you - it can be a case of someone wanting to tell a good story and take pleasure in writing a naughty scene. Just don't dance around the issue and pretend as if that is never the case because it's more likely than unlikely.

[Zetchryn]

-SNIP-

...and as a final controversial point let me state that whilst I believe that ERP is a valid form of storytelling in many cases it's just a case of two people doing it because they want to get their rocks off. There's not necessarily anything wrong with that, mind you - it can be a case of someone wanting to tell a good story and take pleasure in writing a naughty scene. Just don't dance around the issue and pretend as if that is never the case because it's more likely than unlikely.

 

 

I'll admit I ERP. I ERP often and frequently, with multiple partners, sometimes at the same time (L-lewd). It 90% of the time isn't about the sexual gratificaion to me. Can I get aroused from it? Yup. Do I pleasure myself while I write? I think all of.. Three times in my career, but that's also because I write this shit for a living. This is a job to me.

 

 

 

Now onto another topic... I'm surprised and encouraged by the overwhelmingly POSITIVE attitudes of everyone here, and how everyone is willing to discuss this in a mature, safe way. This speaks wonders, it truly does... And I'm happy to be a part of this community.

[V'aleera]

more likely than unlikely.

This assertion, no matter the topic, demands proof to support it.

[Oscare]

In words of John Green, my only contribution to this is...

 

"One tip for all couples: USE. YOUR. WORDS."

[Faye]

ERP is a lot like sex in real life: You really should only do it with people you trust.

 

Quoting this for max truth. Typically if someone asks me if I ERP, I'll tell them no (at least, if I think they are interested in ERP with me). I'm not meaning to lie or be a hypocrite, however, the list of people I would be willing to ERP with is very small. Unfortunately, as important as we've stressed consent and communication are here, a lot of people still try to headbutt their way into ERP no matter what the other person involved wants. All too often "I don't want to ERP right now" or "I don't want to ERP with you" is seen as a challenge to convince or seduce. Sadly, I've found anything but a firm "No, I don't ERP at all" doesn't deter an unfortunately large amount of people.

[GloryRhodes]

Sex is a complicated thing that comes with a lot of social issues wrapped very tightly in leather and lace.  Some people like it.  Some people don't.  Some people can do it without emotional attachment.  Some people can't.  Some people only do it with people they trust while others want to do it as often as possible with as many new people as possible.

 

The opinions that people have on sex, and the issues surrounding sex, are extremely relevant to their own sex lives and very rarely relevant to the sex lives of those around them.  People will participate or not participate in sex based upon their own experiences and preferences, and their own drives.

 

There is safe sex and unsafe sex, and safe sex is defined by the person consenting to it.  While for one couple safe sex means waiting until marriage, another might define it as with a trusting partner while another might describe it as simply avoiding disease.

 

ERP is sex.  It is not a separate issue than sex.  Some people feel comfortable divorcing themselves from the sex they are having through a roleplay character, which can be fun and enjoyable.  Some people prefer to experience the pleasure with their character.  Some people aren't turned on by the sex they're having, others are.

 

The only wrong way to have sex is nonconsentually.  The only wrong way to ERP is nonconsentually.

[Darien Cadell]

I've roleplayed all kinds, and I mean all kinds. Okay, maybe not all, but if you made a list of categories, I'm sure I could claim to have dipped my toes in all of them.

 

And I don't think ERP, such as it is, has ever caused me any problems. That's not to say it doesn't for others, obviously. I can see how it does and why it does. But anything IC hasn't really been the source of conflict on my end. (My IC has bothered others, but that comes part and parcel with roleplaying jerks generally.) When I do have RP problems, they've always come from somewhere OOC.

 

That being said, I feel for the people who don't want any part of it and don't want to see it. I'm not a big fan of seeing public displays of affection in real life, either. If I'm doing such a thing I make frequent and immediate use of private channels, or even pull it out of the game altogether, and I do feel guilty when I go a bit over the top with affection before stepping out of the public eye. Ain't nobody got time for that.

[Val]

ERP is a lot like sex in real life: You really should only do it with people you trust.

 

This is pretty much explicitly how I operate. I refuse to ERP just any random individual and, as Faye stated, the list of people that I would even consider is pretty small. Most people I just don't trust, and even fewer do I believe wouldn't stalk me or be all weird about it.

 

I prefer to operate safely. Suffice to say, if anyone would get close to sleeping with any of my characters, unless I've known the individual for a lengthy period of time and have come to trust them, the scene would be concluded before it got anywhere past kissing--and even then, it really just depends on how comfortable I am with the scene/person in general.

[Tiergan]

I think we've actually chatted about ERP before on these forums (and it was a super nice, interesting chat too!)

 

I think most people have already nailed down on a lot of the most important things about ERP or any sensual/romantic RP, but I'll just reiterate the ones I feel are most important.

 

1) Make sure all parties involved are both comfortable and consenting. (I'm personally in the 'only with someone I know and trust' boat when it comes to my own personal comfort.)

2) Keep it PRIVATE, because if it's public you most likely haven't gotten consent from your audience who didn't ask to see your hanky panky times.

3) Don't do the fake-naughty with real life minors. (It's... kinda sad "do not do the fake diddle with kids." has to be said.)

 

and one of the biggest things for me is:

 

4) DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES use the ERP or even just RP in general to fulfill a need you are missing in real life - whether that is sex, romance, or anything else. And DO NOT RP with someone who is clearly using you to fulfill their need. This path only leads to horror, ruin, IC/OOC blending, and some pretty extreme discomfort on the part of the person who didn't really ask to be someone else's tool for living out fantasies.

 

It honestly doesn't bother me if people are going to ERP to get their rocks off or ERP to develop characters or ERP to build a narrative. As long as folks are safe, consenting, happy, and aren't exposing me to any surprise unwanted public dong -- it's doesn't really affect me what folks do on the side.

 

However, if you're craving real life romance - go out and get real life, healthy romance. Don't try to use RP romance to fulfill that need. It inevitably places the other person in a really shitty situation and leads to the really awful scenarios that I think Hammersmith is hitting upon.

[Hammersmith]

3) Don't do the fake-naughty with real life minors. (It's... kinda sad "do not do the fake diddle with kids." has to be said.)

 

 

4) DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES use the ERP or even just RP in general to fulfill a need you are missing in real life - whether that is sex, romance, or anything else.  And DO NOT RP with someone who is clearly using you to fulfill their need. 

 

These two points are incredibly important yall.  I have seen some shit in my lifetime involving ERP and almost all of it flowed from these two points.

 

Out abusers.  Out them and make sure they never come back.

[Tiergan]

Unfortunately, as important as we've stressed consent and communication are here, a lot of people still try to headbutt their way into ERP no matter what the other person involved wants. All too often "I don't want to ERP right now" or "I don't want to ERP with you" is seen as a challenge to convince or seduce.

 

The second someone doesn't take "I don't want to ERP with you" as "I will go find someone else to do the RP naughties with instead of this person." is the second they go on the Do Not RP With This Raging Twat list because they clearly don't grasp the concept of NO or the comfort of the other person.

[allgivenover]

How the hell does non-consensual ERP happen?

 

Block, report.

 

Done.

 

wtf m8

[Faye]

How the hell does non-consensual ERP happen?

 

Block, report.

 

Done.

 

wtf m8

 

Yes, that's obviously how to handle it. Doesn't change the fact that people still try it, or that it's still wrong of people to try.

 

Edit: Not to mention, ERP can be non-consensual in the same way sex can without someone literally physically forcing you: minors who can't legally consent, guilting, threatening, coercing, bullying, etc.

[Aysun]

I only take issue with folks that ERP "non-canon" on the side, or create their character with the intent of ERP being central to all their stories existing only to really act out their fetishes and such.

In both those cases, I simply don't RP with that person and ignore them (and in the past, call them out on it if they try to claim they're doing anything else but that). That's not the kind of RPer I want to be involved with for RP in general or ERP.

 

That's all I'll say on the subject!

[Hammersmith]

How the hell does non-consensual ERP happen?

 

Block, report.

 

Done.

 

wtf m8

 

Real easy.  RP with someone.  Get them involved in your stuff.  Get them wrapped up in your plotlines. Get them in your orbit and start making sure all their other stuff comes into your orbit. Make them orbit you.

 

Isolate them. 

 

Them promise you'll shut down all their fun, ever, if they don't join you in the boning time.  Promise to turn all your friends (And now theirs, because they're part of your group) against them if they don't do what you say.

 

Grooming, blackmail, extortion.

 

See what I said about emotionally manipulative assholes.  It's a common tactic even against adults, and it's a known tactic used against minors by predators a LOT. You see this sort of shit with charismatic sociopaths as well.

 

You don't forget it after you see it happen to someone. It's why I said make a lot of friends. Don't focus, don't orbit one person. If you aren't being allowed to or are being manipulated into avoiding contacting/playing with others outside a clique by one person, it's a red flag.

[allgivenover]

That's a fair point, but I think the kind of person that would end up in that situation has a higher probability of not following this rule to start with:

 

4) DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES use the ERP or even just RP in general to fulfill a need you are missing in real life - whether that is sex, romance, or anything else. And DO NOT RP with someone who is clearly using you to fulfill their need.

 

Though that doesn't make it their fault, it's still the assholes doing the social engineering fault.

[Hammersmith]

Real easy.  RP with someone.  Get them involved in your stuff.  Get them wrapped up in your plotlines. Get them in your orbit and start making sure all their other stuff comes into your orbit. Make them orbit you.

 

Isolate them. 

 

Them promise you'll shut down all their fun, ever, if they don't join you in the boning time.  Promise to turn all your friends (And now theirs, because they're part of your group) against them if they don't do what you say.

 

Grooming, blackmail, extortion.

 

See what I said about emotionally manipulative assholes.  It's a common tactic even against adults, and it's a known tactic used against minors by predators a LOT. You see this sort of shit with charismatic sociopaths as well.

 

You don't forget it after you see it happen to someone. It's why I said make a lot of friends. Don't focus, don't orbit one person. If you aren't being allowed to or are being manipulated into avoiding contacting/playing with others outside a clique by one person, it's a red flag.

 

That's a fair point, but I think the kind of person that would end up in that situation has a higher probability of not following this rule to start with:

 

4) DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES use the ERP or even just RP in general to fulfill a need you are missing in real life - whether that is sex, romance, or anything else.  And DO NOT RP with someone who is clearly using you to fulfill their need.

 

Though that doesn't make it their fault, it's still the assholes doing the social engineering fault.

 

True, but it's easier to recognize once it's known to you.

 

Also it's not social engineering, or a pick up game.  that really downplays the consequences of this sort of really terrible behavior. in the context we're addressing, it's strait up sexual predation.  It's fucking horrifying.

 

(Notice I have Views on this.  Because Reasons.)

[CrimsonMars]

 

I'll admit I ERP. I ERP often and frequently, with multiple partners, sometimes at the same time (L-lewd). It 90% of the time isn't about the sexual gratificaion to me. Can I get aroused from it? Yup. Do I pleasure myself while I write? I think all of.. Three times in my career, but that's also because I write this shit for a living. This is a job to me.

 

*puts shades on and smirks*

 

Really though, I'm guilty of this too, and I've been meaning to cut back on it too unless the situation calls for it. There's also thing of too much ERP.

 

...Unfortunately, my Chiyo is easy. >.>

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Real easy.  RP with someone.  Get them involved in your stuff.  Get them wrapped up in your plotlines.  Get them in your orbit and start making sure all their other stuff comes into your orbit.  Make them orbit you.

 

Isolate them. 

 

Them promise you'll shut down all their fun, ever, if they don't [do as you say].  Promise to turn all your friends (And now theirs, because they're part of your group) against them if they don't do what you say.

 

Grooming, blackmail, extortion.

 

See what I said about emotionally manipulative assholes.  It's a common tactic even against adults, and it's a known tactic used against minors by predators a LOT.  You see this sort of shit with charismatic sociopaths as well.

 

You don't forget it after you see it happen to someone.  It's why I said make a lot of friends. Don't focus, don't orbit one person.  If you aren't being allowed to or are being manipulated into avoiding contacting/playing with others outside a clique by one person, it's a red flag.

 

...I've actually seen a lot more of this happen among non-ERPers than anyone I've known to engage in ERP. I've seen friends get completely ousted for "reasons" without any proof, and seen friends of that friend stop because of tumblr posts gone wild.

 

Ultimately, it comes down to confronting the person. Does the [potentially] emotionally abusive person know what they're doing? Are they aware of it? Is there malicious intent? I won't make judgements based on hearsay anymore because I've seen accusations come from every direction, in cases where sometimes the accused was innocent.

 

Communication's an important tool in these things. It can make or break all relationships.

[Hammersmith]

...I've actually seen a lot more of this happen among non-ERPers than anyone I've known to engage in ERP. I've seen friends get completely ousted for "reasons" without any proof, and seen friends of that friend stop because of tumblr posts gone wild.

 

Ultimately, it comes down to confronting the person. Does the [potentially] emotionally abusive person know what they're doing? Are they aware of it? Is there malicious intent? I won't make judgements based on hearsay anymore because I've seen accusations come from every direction, in cases where sometimes the accused was innocent.

 

Communication's an important tool in these things. It can make or break all relationships.

 

Oh, you def. see it almost anywhere.  And there's perfectly normal ways of dealing and mediating it outside of the context we're talking, for sure.

 

In the context of sexual anything, though, it's a seriously terrible thing.

[allgivenover]

True, but it's easier to recognize once it's known to you.

 

Also it's not social engineering, or a pick up game.  that really downplays the consequences of this sort of really terrible behavior.  in the context we're addressing, it's strait up sexual predation.  It's fucking horrifying.

 

(Notice I have Views on this.  Because Reasons.)

 

Manipulation IS social engineering, but I think we'd just be mincing words at this point.

[Dravus]

more likely than unlikely.

This assertion, no matter the topic, demands proof to support it.

 

Proof that would trigger the rules against naming and shaming were I to provide evidence. Not that I'd do that, mind you. I prefer not to gossip about specific individuals and their online habits.

 

You're free to take the words in my previous post with a hefty pinch of salt, of course! I don't mind if people ERP to get their rocks off - I just wish more people were honest about it. It may not be the main drive but it does play a part in why many people do it. Whether it's because they're looking for a quickie in the Quicksand with a big breasted Miqo'te or something slow, sensual and romantic with a trusted partner then on some level people are doing it because it makes them feel good.

 

Sex is, after all, natural. What's important is keeping it in healthy moderation, safe and free of drama both in the real world and whilst playing make believe online.

[Xenedra]

Doing/Did a little clean up, let's keep this wire-walking thread on track.