How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly?

[Seriphyn]

I remember RPing with a few people for an Immortal Flames mission. The guy who was "in charge" was a level 40 paladin with no other alts or classes leveled. As he kept barking out orders, I remember thinking to myself "Yeah right, I was at Cartenau. Where were you?"

 

As the mission progressed, he began talking about how he was immediately chosen for leadership training when he joined up. I suppose it's possible...but yikes is that a stretch. All I kept thinking was "You just started 20 levels ago...how hard have you actually worked? Ever hear of Caravan...?" By the end of the mission I was in complete disbelief for what was even going on, no matter how hard the guy had prepared.

 

So to answer the thread, yes I think it's important. Don't tell me you killed Bahamut unless you killed Bahamut. And don't tell me you're powerful until you've at least spent some time to make it believable to live such a claim.

 

HI THERE, I THINK YOU MIGHT REMEMBER ME.

 

I HAVE THIS THING CALLED BACKSTORY.

[Altitis Acquired]

I remember RPing with a few people for an Immortal Flames mission. The guy who was "in charge" was a level 40 paladin with no other alts or classes leveled. As he kept barking out orders, I remember thinking to myself "Yeah right, I was at Cartenau. Where were you?"

 

As the mission progressed, he began talking about how he was immediately chosen for leadership training when he joined up. I suppose it's possible...but yikes is that a stretch. All I kept thinking was "You just started 20 levels ago...how hard have you actually worked? Ever hear of Caravan...?" By the end of the mission I was in complete disbelief for what was even going on, no matter how hard the guy had prepared.

 

So to answer the thread, yes I think it's important. Don't tell me you killed Bahamut unless you killed Bahamut. And don't tell me you're powerful until you've at least spent some time to make it believable to live such a claim.

 

HI THERE, I THINK YOU MIGHT REMEMBER ME.

 

I HAVE THIS THING CALLED BACKSTORY.

 

Hahaha!

Shots fired!

[Faye]

I remember RPing with a few people for an Immortal Flames mission. The guy who was "in charge" was a level 40 paladin with no other alts or classes leveled. As he kept barking out orders, I remember thinking to myself "Yeah right, I was at Cartenau. Where were you?"

 

As the mission progressed, he began talking about how he was immediately chosen for leadership training when he joined up. I suppose it's possible...but yikes is that a stretch. All I kept thinking was "You just started 20 levels ago...how hard have you actually worked? Ever hear of Caravan...?" By the end of the mission I was in complete disbelief for what was even going on, no matter how hard the guy had prepared.

 

So to answer the thread, yes I think it's important. Don't tell me you killed Bahamut unless you killed Bahamut. And don't tell me you're powerful until you've at least spent some time to make it believable to live such a claim.

 

So if you absolutely can't do something IC unless you've done it OOC how exactly does the inverse work? Do we all have a right to claim we personally killed Gaius just because we all did it in game? I don't think people should be restricted and penalized for something as understandable as not playing the flop that was 1.0.

[Dravus]

I've said this before but...the thing I value most in my role-play is plausibility. I think that's the most important thing to take into account when creating a character or event. Does it make sense? Are liberties being taken and if so, how can they be made less jarring?

 

We all end up taking liberties within role-play to some extent to justify the existence of our characters within the game world. What matters most is whether or not they feel like they belong in the setting without overshadowing everybody else or feeling too much like a blatant self insert.

 

That doesn't mean a character can't be powerful but...let's be honest: anyone making their character into the Warrior of Light responsible for downing major antagonists is simply being selfish. They might not even realise it, of course, but if people want a single player experience within their role-play then they'd be better off writing fan-fiction as far as I'm concerned.

 

It's meant to be a group activity in the context of MMO role-play.

 

I can totally sympathise with the desire to play a powerful character, anyway - especially when a lot of role-play is unintentionally or intentionally like an arm's race in regards to which character is the most skilled/competent/popular/influential/etc. It just needs to be plausible!

 

[industrythirteen]

This hasn't been as big a deal to me in FFXIV, given the way it is set up. In every MMO I've ever played that had a dueling function, or some PVP that was open world, it made sense to me that if I wanted to be taken seriously, if I wanted to run my mouth even a little bit in character, I should probably be able to back it up with my ability to defend myself with my button pushing, if it ever came down to that. 

 

However, in FFXIV, I can't just duel someone that's being rude in-character. There isn't a function for it. There's a lot of posturing, which annoys me, and then I wish people would just get on with it and stop stalling or wasting people's time. Call that a pet peeve of mine. While I can talk to someone OOC, and prefer to, to get the ball rolling, I'm not always going to be able to convince someone there is more to RPing than throwing their weight around. So, while I believe in backing my own shit up, I also want to tell a story that entertains the other people around me. 

 

If I run my mouth in a tabletop game, or pull some shit with my character, dice and stats are what is going to matter if they want to take a swing at my character, or vice versa. I don't see why this should be any different in an mmo system: We work with what we are given—buttons to push, gear, stats, etc. Just because I say something, doesn't mean others need to believe it, or take me seriously if I'm a level 10, and they are a level 50 (or 60.) I make allowances for certain things, certainly, as some folks aren't playing super experience combat-based characters, or someone is an NPC for an on-going story. That's completely logical to me. I also understand that not everyone is as good at playing a game as others, or even good at pvp where open-world pvp or dueling is available. My response to that is to say make friends that can and will have your back. Have them champion for you, or be your minions. Who doesn't love minions?! It is storytelling after all in the overall scheme of things. Some characters let others do the fighting for them.

[V'aleera]

I think the real lesson of this thread is that everyone needs use Verad's Fate-14 system and put rolz.org on their bookmarks toolbar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This message paid for by Dubious Distributions Ltd.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

[[takes our magitek mod device]]

 

Just a small reminder to stay calm everyone.

 

There have been a few posts that linger close to violating the rules. (Baiting/fanning flames/etc).

 

Please be considerate of other peoples' playstyles and RP styles. There is no "right" way to RP. Only preferences and opinions.

 

[[puts away magitek mod device]]

[Nanaki]

I remember RPing with a few people for an Immortal Flames mission. The guy who was "in charge" was a level 40 paladin with no other alts or classes leveled. As he kept barking out orders, I remember thinking to myself "Yeah right, I was at Cartenau. Where were you?"

 

As the mission progressed, he began talking about how he was immediately chosen for leadership training when he joined up. I suppose it's possible...but yikes is that a stretch. All I kept thinking was "You just started 20 levels ago...how hard have you actually worked? Ever hear of Caravan...?" By the end of the mission I was in complete disbelief for what was even going on, no matter how hard the guy had prepared.

 

So to answer the thread, yes I think it's important. Don't tell me you killed Bahamut unless you killed Bahamut. And don't tell me you're powerful until you've at least spent some time to make it believable to live such a claim.

 

So if you absolutely can't do something IC unless you've done it OOC how exactly does the inverse work? Do we all have a right to claim we personally killed Gaius just because we all did it in game? I don't think people should be restricted and penalized for something as understandable as not playing the flop that was 1.0.

 

Well, again that all comes down to who you will take you seriously, which is what the thread is about. If someone said IC that they personally killed Gaius, I'm sure everyone here would have their own thoughts, and IC reactions. I've always thought that such statements that boast your character as the one who shapes the world for us all to be ridiculous.

 

There's nothing wrong with catching up your story if you didn't play 1.0. Ultimately it's up to the people you're RPing with to believe it or not. So if someone plans on being the best, or writing that their character ended an era, they better have done their homework. As I'm sure more traversed players will be willing and able to poke holes in their limited knowledge.

[Magellan]

So... for people who equate ooc level to ic experience...  do you just not have a backstory? To have a backstory seems completely arbitrary if it has nothing to do with who your character is in the here and now.

 

Does your character just get plopped down in the middle of Eorzea fully grown?

 

My current character, a Doman monk, didn't train in Eorzea. Nor will she. Her particular set of skills is completely different from Ul'dah pgl guild training, so how is level even remotely relevant?

 

A characters life experience dictates their weaknesses and strengths. Not some ooc mechanic that again, can only be acknowledged via meta - gaming.

 

small mod edit: made the text small default size

[Flickering Ember]

So... for people who equate ooc level to ic experience...  do you just not have a backstory? To have a backstory seems completely arbitrary if it has nothing to do with who your character is in the here and now.

 

Does your character just get plopped down in the middle of Eorzea fully grown?

 

My current character, a Doman monk, didn't train in Eorzea. Nor will she. Her particular set of skills is completely different from Ul'dah pgl guild training, so how is level even remotely relevant? 

 

A characters life experience dictates their weaknesses and strengths. Not some ooc mechanic that again, can only be acknowledged via meta - gaming.

 

 

It's simply a matter of preference. Those who take level into account have varying reasons throughout the thread. Some folks use it as a meter to gauge how committed someone is to their character (the idea is the more work someone puts into a character, the longer they will stick around); when everyone's character is role-played as powerful, level is the only fair way to settle disputes or claims; or since the RP is taking place in a game built around leveling and obtaining power, what your character has accomplished in game is a comparable amount of power that your character should have.

 

These I believe are the main reasons. Very few people take absolutely everything in game mechanics into RP. I suspect that those who like to keep game mechanics with RP as much as possible do so the best they can. They probably won't RP out the exact warrior of light storyline. They have their own back stories the same as anyone else. Thematically, it may be that their character starts at an average level in combat but grows stronger over the course of the game. There are also some who don't start role-playing until they have hit max level on their characters.

 

This style of RP will not always be for everyone. And I don't feel that we can have our RP styles 100% match up with others. It's typically not brought up in game anyway.

[Caspar]

So... for people who equate ooc level to ic experience...  do you just not have a backstory? To have a backstory seems completely arbitrary if it has nothing to do with who your character is in the here and now.[/size]

 

 

Does your character just get plopped down in the middle of Eorzea fully grown?

 

 

My current character, a Doman monk, didn't train in Eorzea. Nor will she. Her particular set of skills is completely different from Ul'dah pgl guild training, so how is level even remotely relevant? 

 

 

A characters life experience dictates their weaknesses and strengths. Not some ooc mechanic that again, can only be acknowledged via meta - gaming.

Whoah there gumshoe, indoor voices.

 

That being said, I'm in a similar situation. Since my character came in as a skilled character, I had to explain away the level in case I encountered players who took my level as an indicator of power. It's a good thing I suppose I didn't run into them, as I bet they'd never have bought the "injury" plot thread I used it for. Like your character, her style is not that of Ul'Dahn pugilists or the Fists, so the game cannot properly reflect what she is ICly. In such cases, I try to describe long and hard what's going on so people can immediately look at my emote description and know at a glance it is not the same as the in-game Monk style. Generally that seems to more or less be enough for most players.

 

small mod edit: made the text small default size

[Delilah Scythewood]

My personal opinion varies on a case by case basis as well as the individual involved. If it's someone I know with a preplanned character for story? Sure. I knew a guild on WoW where someone played an antagonist who was mostly level 60 while everyone else was 85 or so but treated him like a badass. That was preplanned and agreed to be such.

 

If it's someone more random, walk up level 1 who tries to drag my character into an alley? I'm more inclined to be biased towards the level.

 

Usually I try not to let it effect my judgement as long as the ones involved are good at RPing and doing what they do.

[LadyRochester]

My personal opinion varies on a case by case basis as well as the individual involved. If it's someone I know with a preplanned character for story? Sure. I knew a guild on WoW where someone played an antagonist who was mostly level 60 while everyone else was 85 or so but treated him like a badass. That was preplanned and agreed to be such.

 

If it's someone more random, walk up level 1 who tries to drag my character into an alley? I'm more inclined to be biased towards the level.

 

Usually I try not to let it effect my judgement as long as the ones involved are good at RPing and doing what they do.

 

This. ^

[Magellan]

 

 

 

 

Whoah there gumshoe, indoor voices.

Lol sorry ^^; my phone formatted weirdly. Twas not my intention. (Hopefully it won't do it again).

 

I guess my confusion lies in the picking and choosing of OOC mechanics.  To me, if someone looks at my character and says 'lvl 50 monk.', then they should also be saying 'lvl 9 conjurer. Lvl 43 bard. Lvl 34 dragoon.'

 

Which forces upon me a degree of power and Mary Sueism I frankly don't want. But. .. lvl matters, right?

 

Additionally, I should RP that I have 2 retainers, behemoth and magitek mounts, 2 dozen minions- should I RP all the times I died while leveling?

 

Oh god..  are we all just zombies and Eorzea is actually an apocalyptic world?

[Asmodean]

 

 

 

 

Whoah there gumshoe, indoor voices.

Lol sorry ^^; my phone formatted weirdly. Twas not my intention. (Hopefully it won't do it again).

 

I guess my confusion lies in the picking and choosing of OOC mechanics.  To me, if someone looks at my character and says 'lvl 50 monk.', then they should also be saying 'lvl 9 conjurer. Lvl 43 bard. Lvl 34 dragoon.'

 

Which forces upon me a degree of power and Mary Sueism I frankly don't want. But. .. lvl matters, right?

 

Additionally, I should RP that I have 2 retainers, behemoth and magitek mounts, 2 dozen minions- should I RP all the times I died while leveling?

 

Oh god..  are we all just zombies and Eorzea is actually an apocalyptic world?

 

On the bright side, I have yet to find any Cazadores (thank the twelve)

 

All jokes aside, things like this are always going to be a problem due to how large the rp community. As I said before myself, I try to only limit myself by level and check others levels to see how how much work they have put into their characters. It alwasy going to come down to whatever mind set of the people involved after all.

[Blue]

Should I RP all the times I died while leveling?

 

Oh god..  are we all just zombies and Eorzea is actually an apocalyptic world?

 

Nitpicky Space!

The NPC by the Aetheryte in the lv1 Coming to X quest explains that we are not really dead when we lose a battle. Rather, we are on the brink of death, but our aether instead of returning to the Lifestream as per all living things Returns (HAH, get it? Return) to the aetheryte we are most attuned with (Home Point) and takes back the form of our physical body, much like we do when we cast Return IC without being incapacitated. Our body "remembers" where to return and escapes the grasp of death into the Lifestream thanks to our capacity to attune to aetherytes.

 

We are immortals!

 

No, jokes aside, we shouldn't RP it as immortality, but this is how it works In-Game. Me, I prefer to say someone found me consciousless and brought me back in town and left me at the aetheryte under care of the guards.

 

ON TOPIC:

 

I have mentioned age and career time in my first post on this thread as the things I look at the most to determine how powerful a character is versus mine, but another came to mind: gear, type of weapon and context.

 

To make it short, if a Machinist comes up to me in Costa del Sol and shoots me while I'm in a swimsuit, and my character is notoriously shitty at dodging (most of them are), then yeah... I won't kill my character, but I'll at the very least send the machinist a tell and warn them that this will cause a serious wound on my character and that they will have to accept the consequences of it, which range from them having to find a way to save me (or if they don't, I can have NPCs do it, it's fine), to get a bounty on their head and be wanted in the area (in that case, he shouldn't so happily stroll in Limsa Lominsa. If I catch him do it IC, he will have to deal with being chased down by the guards/possibly arrested) and so on, or to be hunted down by my other adventuring friends seeking revenge, etc. etc.

 

In short, if a character has all the context to overpower me, I will accept that, but they'll find out that there's consequences to be dealt with, and often times I find that a lot of B/A RPers don't want to deal with them. Which is kinda...sad.

 

I do have one Badass character, Jet'a, and he has had consequences to deal with his actions. The results? He's now permanently limping (he needs his staff to walk), and in one of our most recent roleplays his leg injury caused him and another person to fall down a pitch and not being able to climb back out (they had to be rescued, which was humiliating for Jet'a, but what could he do?). Not only that, but during the fall he also got an injury on his chest that during the time at the bottom of the crevasse (a few days) turned into a Very Bad infection and nearly killed him.

 

You can be badass and still be mortal, is all I'm saying. And as many have stated out, flaws are often the source of the most meaningful RPs.

[FreelanceWizard]

I guess my confusion lies in the picking and choosing of OOC mechanics.  To me, if someone looks at my character and says 'lvl 50 monk.', then they should also be saying 'lvl 9 conjurer. Lvl 43 bard. Lvl 34 dragoon.'

 

Which forces upon me a degree of power and Mary Sueism I frankly don't want. But. .. lvl matters, right?

 

Additionally, I should RP that I have 2 retainers, behemoth and magitek mounts, 2 dozen minions- should I RP all the times I died while leveling?

 

Oh god..  are we all just zombies and Eorzea is actually an apocalyptic world?

 

We all pick and choose what OOC mechanics we follow and how much of the game's story we weave into our own; a great example is ignoring the fact that the mechanical day-night cycle is greatly accelerated. I don't know of anyone who RPs that the day in Eorzea is only 72 minutes long. It doesn't follow, in my mind, that choosing to ignore some OOC mechanics means you must also ignore all of them, nor that the converse is true. The choice isn't binary.

 

In the poll, I voted level "sometimes matters" for two reasons. One, it's a quick and dirty measure of power that can be applied when there's no other alternatives. When would this matter? As Lililove noted, if some random level 1 tough starts making threats against my character with no OOC discussion or prearrangement, she's simply not going to take him seriously. It's a filter, more or less, against random assertions of power. Communication, as always, is key; I have no problem with a level 1 antagonist being super-scary if we have that discussion first.

 

Two, for those of us who RP the progression of our characters in expertise over time, it serves as a sort of benchmark for our own character's power. I never RP my character having any real expertise in an area where she has no, or few, levels. I RP her highest level and most practiced class as where her primary combat expertise lies. For L'yhta, that's thaumaturgy. This is a personal benchmark, mind you, not a way to say that she's more powerful than other thaumaturges that are lower level than she is. Level and the abilities that come with it also give me a benchmark of the boundaries of power for a class and how they expand as a character grows.

 

Now, when we're talking about things like dueling and rolling, while I like a level modifier as a way of showing relative expertise between characters, I have no issue with falling back on "superhero balance logic" and saying that everyone who asserts some expertise is balanced enough that chance is the defining factor (in fact, this is the core mechanic on which the Tower's Story Engine game system operates). However, that's a courtesy I extend when we have some discussion about exactly what's going on. I'm not going to concede to flat /random in an arcanima drawing contest when the opposition RPs a Doman merchant with no magical knowledge, just as I wouldn't deign to ask for that in a sword-and-board fight with no magic involved when the fight's between L'yhta and a trained gladiator. Instead, I would just lose, since that's the correct result given the situation.

 

My larger point is that level, to me, does have a place in our understanding of the world. I suppose this comes from my tabletop RPG experience, where no one would RP a 15th level fighter if they wanted to be terrible in a fight, or throw 10 points in Dexterity + Brawl on a Brujah and RP that they've never thrown a punch and know nothing of combat. The mechanics of the game don't cover everything, but they do, I think, matter, at least to some degree.

[Gegenji]

In the poll, I voted level "sometimes matters" for two reasons. One, it's a quick and dirty measure of power that can be applied when there's no other alternatives. When would this matter? As Lililove noted, if some random level 1 tough starts making threats against my character with no OOC discussion or prearrangement, she's simply not going to take him seriously. It's a filter, more or less, against random assertions of power. Communication, as always, is key; I have no problem with a level 1 antagonist being super-scary if we have that discussion first.

 

...

 

Now, when we're talking about things like dueling and rolling, while I like a level modifier as a way of showing relative expertise between characters, I have no issue with falling back on "superhero balance logic" and saying that everyone who asserts some expertise is balanced enough that chance is the defining factor (in fact, this is the core mechanic on which the Tower's Story Engine game system operates). However, that's a courtesy I extend when we have some discussion about exactly what's going on. I'm not going to concede to flat /random in an arcanima drawing contest when the opposition RPs a Doman merchant with no magical knowledge, just as I wouldn't deign to ask for that in a sword-and-board fight with no magic involved when the fight's between L'yhta and a trained gladiator. Instead, I would just lose, since that's the correct result given the situation.

 

That... makes a fair bit of sense. Again, I'm the sort that doesn't tie OOC level to IC ability at all, but I can definitely see that working. Not sure how seriously to take some walk-up who is trying to attack you? Check their level! Still, I would figure the idea of some random dude coming up to punch you in the face for no reason would be a problem in and of itself. Unless it's supposed to be some situation where they mistook you for someone else... which would be a pretty funny RP situation.

 

I also like the idea of when to use rolls - when there's a legit amount of chance involved considering folks are on a similar level - but then that still raises the question of how you identify being on a close enough level to commit things to chance. If one ties OOC levels closely to IC power, then it would likely be those of similar levels (which I suppose is a decent enough metric to go on - those of us who don't have to rely on a lot more guesswork and communication in that regard). But even then, what level range would qualify as "similar level"? Exact levels or a range (and how much of a range if so)? At what point, if you use OOC levels as a gauge, is someone "too high above" or "too far below" your own character's "power level" to deal with on a level playing field?

 

Ultimately, though, I think all of this contemplation seems to regard mostly to walk-up RP with someone you don't know. If it's a friend or FC-mate or whatever that you know well enough and have spent enough time with, you might be willing to give them more of a pass when they try to present a power level that might be discordant with their actual level. Or, if it's a villain character or some other event situation that bolsters one's power above the norm (either temporarily or permanently). Am I wrong in my assumption on this?

[Magellan]

Taking a step back from this, I've sneaking suspicion most of us in this thread are talking about extreme cases. It would be discouraging to think people have a hard fast rule of 'no lower level can be powerful', but reading people's comments I do not believe this to be the case.

 

Just as most of us don't want to end up rping with that guy (or girl) who is Uber ultra levels of strong, despite having just arrived oocly in Eorzea, having no grasp of lore, or even what constitutes as 'strength' in this backdrop. That's just bad writing.

 

I wouldn't want people to use my ooc lvl to ascertain my character is a monk. They should only deduce that based off of IC look or actions. Just as I'd rather people judge my character's strength (or lack of) based off of IC actions. When I RP, I'm expecting others to react/respond/critique my writing skills/talents, not what I've done PvE, which I hold as completely separate.

 

To each their own I guess :0)

[FreelanceWizard]

That... makes a fair bit of sense. Again, I'm the sort that doesn't tie OOC level to IC ability at all, but I can definitely see that working. Not sure how seriously to take some walk-up who is trying to attack you? Check their level! Still, I would figure the idea of some random dude coming up to punch you in the face for no reason would be a problem in and of itself. Unless it's supposed to be some situation where they mistook you for someone else... which would be a pretty funny RP situation.

 

I also like the idea of when to use rolls - when there's a legit amount of chance involved considering folks are on a similar level - but then that still raises the question of how you identify being on a close enough level to commit things to chance. If one ties OOC levels closely to IC power, then it would likely be those of similar levels (which I suppose is a decent enough metric to go on - those of us who don't have to rely on a lot more guesswork and communication in that regard). But even then, what level range would qualify as "similar level"? Exact levels or a range (and how much of a range if so)? At what point, if you use OOC levels as a gauge, is someone "too high above" or "too far below" your own character's "power level" to deal with on a level playing field?

 

Ultimately, though, I think all of this contemplation seems to regard mostly to walk-up RP with someone you don't know. If it's a friend or FC-mate or whatever that you know well enough and have spent enough time with, you might be willing to give them more of a pass when they try to present a power level that might be discordant with their actual level. Or, if it's a villain character or some other event situation that bolsters one's power above the norm (either temporarily or permanently). Am I wrong in my assumption on this?

 

I guess I've run into enough "I made a level 1 character to try to beat up/threaten/do worse things to people" characters that I've gotten cynical about the whole thing (much like how I'm cynical about law enforcement RP). If the person comes up to me and says, "Hey, I want to have my character punch yours in a mistaken identity thing" OOC, though, I'm all for that!

 

In terms of leaving things to chance, I give a pretty wide leeway for that. If a character's RPed as a professional mage, and they're having a magic duel with L'yhta, I'm fine with it being decided on random rolls. If they're RPing a clumsy arcanist barely able to summon, much less control, a carbuncle -- regardless of level -- then no, I'm not going to let it ride. That's sort of a non-answer, though, particularly since it's subjective and based on how people RP their characters. That's where a /random modifier can come into play. I like Level x 10 myself; this puts a 20 level difference at a 20% difference in ability. The exact modifier would be to taste, though, depending on who's involved. Level x 20 is a bigger spread but lets a 50 squish a 1 trivially; Level x 50 makes level extremely important and shrinks the "plausible" spread to 20 levels.

 

In general, though, I agree that with people I know, I'm far more willing to let things flow in a freeform way and let people declare what they want as long as it's plausible. At events, I'll go with whatever the event organizer says the rules are -- it's their story, so I play by their rules. If the rules don't work for me, I'll just bow out. Personally, though, I don't find it exactly plausible to RP a class at level 1 as being an archmage. Backstory's great and all, but when one uses backstory to make their character instantly awesome, they eliminate an entire opportunity for character growth and struggle. I'd look askance at a member of, say, my FC making assertions like that outside of some other discussion.

 

Also, as a side note, I'm at least not talking about metagaming classes and levels. The "level as power" thing I said is really a function of "my character sizes up the threat presented by yours in a snap decision -- what does she think?" Think of the use of level there as the result of her making a Perception + Tactics check in a game system. She doesn't know your class, she doesn't know what you can do, but she does know a relative level of threat (again, in absence of any other discussion).

[Dis]

So, on giving this further thought, I have a genuine inquiry, in regards to power level versus back story versus character level. 

 

When Ninja first released, a friend of mine decided he wanted a level 50 Ninja, but he didn’t want that Ninja to be his main character, who had a fully fleshed out back story.  Instead, he opted to level up a new character, who he gave a very cursory backstory to.  We spent ten minutes sussing out that character’s story based on what bit of lore about Ninja we had, and off he went, leveling that toon.

 

Within less than two days, he’d hit 50, completed all of the MSQ, and was in full Syrcus Tower gear, thanks to my queueing with him as my main, who was at the time a White Mage. 

 

I made a character at the same time, also a Ninja.  I spent a good week working on her backstory,history, personality, character concepts. During that time I managed to level her to 30.  She’s still 30, because my FC was lacking a dedicated tank, and that meant going back to my main to level her up, because it was needed at the time. 

 

I role-played that character more than a dozen times, and always played that she was a ninja from Doma, who was sent ahead with her partner, and the pair of them had been slumming it as pugilists, trying to expand their skills and not show off the fact they had and knew more than they appeared to.  I spent a week getting her to 30, as I was working on her story.  I didn’t feel a need to rush her to max level, and still don’t, even now that she’s an Au Ra, and her story adjusted accordingly (only minor tweaking was needed). 

 

Given that my friends Ninja is/was 50, and my Ninja was only 30, but had a richer backstory and was more fleshed out as an individual, would he honestly be taken more seriously as a character, just based on his OOC level?  In comparative time spent, even though I leveled much slower, I put more cumulative work into that character, especially in role-play.  Would I then be told I hadn’t dedicated enough to her because I spent more time RPing her than I did playing her in PvE?

 

Further, Freelance, I don’t think that just a look (at someone’s character level) can be a good judge. Glioca, for example, carries herself very nonchalantly, and looking at her, people would have a hard time thinking she was a swordswoman who also used conjury to supplement herself as she fought. She’s usually in pants and a loose top, and rarely wears full plate, the closest she's come is now that she's in armor plated boots, but cloth everything else.  She looks more like a bum/pirate right now than she does a skilled paladin, but that’s precisely what her character levels say she is. 

 

Her character levels also no longer reflect that she’s more skilled in conjury than she is with sword fighting.  How would you gauge that disparity just by looking at my cumulative character levels? Would your character assume she’s a better swordswoman than anything else?  If (huge if) we got into a fight,would you decry me using conjury one-handed, as she often does, with her rune-covered sword as a kind of focus to cast? Would using more than one set of skills be considered god-moding?  At what point do we cease to look at character levels and look solely at someone's role-play skill as a gauge of how powerful they are?  Are we all just too bitter because of past experiences, and letting those experiences cloud our judgments a players, and therefore shut ourselves out of potential interactions that could be fun just because someone doesn't 'measure up' on an OOC level?

 

I’m not going for a sarcastic angle here, and apologize if anyone reads it as such, but I’m honestly curious what the answers to these questions are.  Only a little sorry for the wall of text.

 

(Edited for formatting because wtf forum, y u do dis to me?)

[Roda]

So... for people who equate ooc level to ic experience...  do you just not have a backstory? To have a backstory seems completely arbitrary if it has nothing to do with who your character is in the here and now.

 

 

Does your character just get plopped down in the middle of Eorzea fully grown?

 

 

My current character, a Doman monk, didn't train in Eorzea. Nor will she. Her particular set of skills is completely different from Ul'dah pgl guild training, so how is level even remotely relevant? 

 

 

A characters life experience dictates their weaknesses and strengths. Not some ooc mechanic that again, can only be acknowledged via meta - gaming.

For me, typically my character is created the moment her story begins.

Sure she has a history, but I try to not make it more exciting or more impressive than what I play, because who wants to play the second most interesting point in their character's lives? I like that it leaves me lots of room for character growth than starting out as an expert.

 

To take your character as an example, I wouldn't find that too weird, but I'd have them start out as beginner-intermediate martial artist as they enter Eorzea and have them train at the pugilist guild under another Doman refugee as their mentor.

[FreelanceWizard]

Well, I can't speak to the level 30 versus level 50 thing, since my angle on levels mattering doesn't have much to say on that. If you have the backstory that you're a ninja and you have levels in the class, then you are what you say you are and let's go from there. I'm not going to look at the relative levels and say, "welp, you're a trainee and he's the expert, 'cause he's got 20 levels on you." In a relative way with nothing else in consideration, sure, he might be somewhat more skilled when judging by level alone. I can't stress enough how, for me at least, level is but one of several elements in determining plausibility, and it's not even the most important one.

 

Further, Freelance, I don’t think that just a look (at someone’s character level) can be a good judge. Glioca, for example, carries herself very nonchalantly, and looking at her, people would have a hard time thinking she was a swordswoman who also used conjury to supplement herself as she fought. She’s usually in pants and a loose top, and rarely wears full plate, the closest she's come is now that she's in armor plated boots, but cloth everything else.  She looks more like a bum/pirate right now than she does a skilled paladin, but that’s precisely what her character levels say she is. 

 

Her character levels also no longer reflect that she’s more skilled in conjury than she is with sword fighting.  How would you gauge that disparity just by looking at my cumulative character levels? Would your character assume she’s a better swordswoman than anything else?  If (huge if) we got into a fight,would you decry me using conjury one-handed, as she often does, with her rune-covered sword as a kind of focus to cast? Would using more than one set of skills be considered god-moding?  At what point do we cease to look at character levels and look solely at someone's role-play skill as a gauge of how powerful they are?  Are we all just too bitter because of past experiences, and letting those experiences cloud our judgments a players, and therefore shut ourselves out of potential interactions that could be fun just because someone doesn't 'measure up' on an OOC level?

 

L'yhta often wears clothes that you wouldn't associate with someone of her level of power. I fully expect people to respond differently to her when she's in a hempen camise and spring skirt with no visible weapon than when she's decked out in her combat outfit, with high Allagan jewelry, a cashmere robe, and a staff that glows like a shooting star. Likewise, she reacts differently to people based on their clothes, too.

 

Again, for me -- and I sure don't speak for anyone other than myself -- the snap judgment involving character level is in the absence of any other information. If I don't know anything about your character, and we've never RPed, and the first thing you do is come up and threaten to smash L'yhta's face in, I have exactly two things I can work from to inform how she reacts: your appearance and your character level. The first is obvious and the second I finesse on the basis of "hey, she's a skilled adventurer, she can get a read on threats based on how they carry themselves." (Again, I'm excluding other sources of information, such as you emoting that you explicitly try to act less tough than you are.) If you're decked out in awesome gear and are level 50, she's going to react rather differently than if you're in hempen gear and are level 1. Note that nowhere in here does she know class or level in any way as an IC thing.

 

So, in the example given, L'yhta's snap judgment is going to go along the lines of, "this person is a fairly skilled combatant who's currently unarmed and unarmored." Where things go from there depend on what she's wearing and doing, her mood, and so on. It also depends on the emote, but for a person who's clearly attempting to RP and doing so within the bounds of their level, I'd generally offer at least the courtesy of an OOC tell asking what's up and where they're planning on going with this. I would presume if we were actually going to get into a fight, there'd be some OOC discussion about that first, too -- what the intended outcome is and how we plan to resolve it, for instance.

 

Now, again, I'm speaking of a fairly specific situation in open RP (albeit one that is sadly fairly common -- if not so much in XIV at least, since we're awesome ). If we're talking about RP in general, it's all about plausibility. Level is but one of many factors of plausibility -- there's compatibility with lore, sensibility of story, proportionality of responses, the Three Thing Rule, how well a character concept fits together with itself, and so on. I realize not everyone includes level in their factoring of plausibility, and that's fine. Rarely do I find that it overrides other considerations, since there's usually something else wrong when it comes to plausibility when a person wants to call down meteors or instantly chop limbs off.

 

I'm not a big fan of "how well do they RP" as the final determiner of plausibility, since I've seen some talented writers write some extremely unbalanced characters and get unhappy when they don't get to win all the time. Like I said, for me, plausibility is made up of a lot of different things. Level just happens to be one of them. So, to answer your final question, I never use role-play skill as the singular measure of the power allocable to a character, unless you're wrapping up everything I put into the plausibility bucket under that banner.

 

Also, I want to say that I've never once in XIV actually had the situation of the low level character in starting gear getting in my face with threats and claims of superiority. That sort of behavior seems to be reserved for Certain Other MMOs, though I may just not see it as much since I don't typically RP in the big hotspots for IC reasons.

[Tyndles]

Level is the best determining factor in making a snap decision, because it is all a stranger can see.  If you're going to RP combat situations with people you don't know a LOT, then you should put that time in, because while this is an RPG, it is also an MMO, and the factors simply must mix together.  To what extent varies, but it's the way of things. At least it is in my opinion.

[Melkire]

Going to second Freelance and Tyndles on this: in absence of any experience with a fellow roleplayer and in absence of any familiarity with them or their character, appearance and level are two big factors, if not the two biggest factors, in making a snap decision or a judgment call on the fly. That's my outlook and I'm not surprised to see that a few others, at least, share it.

 

Put another way: if OoC I know nothing of you or your character, what you're wearing and the level of your avatar are going to be very important in how my character reacts to yours IC.