characters that seemingly break lore (but don't)

[Khoure]

I'm talking about characters that go around saying they are something that they aren't, really.

 

Like, maybe you have a con-woman au ra who has the skinny, back pointing horns who hides her tail and goes around calling herself a padjal (the elementals demand you buy this snake oil!) . Or some thamauturge who mistakenly thinks they are a black mage after picking up a funny looking rock that is clearly a soul stone, guys. Personally, I'm thinking of a female seeker miqo'te who is an adventurer but claims the nunh title for a splinter tribe that no longer actually exists.

 

Basically, what's the chances of this being shunned OOCly? I assume it would lead to interesting IC confrontations where some characters may fall for it but others don't and find it offensive/distasteful. But will people spam you with ooc grief for the sort-of lore breaking? It's not really breaking lore since you're role playing someone who is lying, twisting logic, or outright mistaken, but on the surface it probably looks like you are. Thoughts?

[Oli!]

If someone questions you on it, just say they're lying.

 

If you're really, seriously worried about it, just include hints that they're lying in their emotes, or write something like "unless someone knew better, she seemed quite convincing" into the narrative.

[Kaiz]

I see no problem with this unless the player actually rps as being able to do things they shouldn't be able to do.

 

The player should expect they might face consequences for their deception,  however.

[Nero]

Short answer: It'd be fine if you played it straight and managed to bounce with people who called your character out on it. If I encountered this, OOCly I would think it is amusing, but I would want to see more to the character than just a con-man gimmick.

 

Long answer: The main reason why lore-breaking concepts tend to put people off is because the players of such usually attempt to directly or indirectly force people to take on a certain perception of their character. When I say that, I mean a player writes a character and says "I want people to acknowledge my character as powerful an absurdly powerful thaumaturge who should be feared, so he'll be one of the only and one of the most powerful Black Mages around," or "People should acknowledge my character as important to the world, so in his backstory he defeated a primal singlehandedly and is the half-dragon offspring of Tiamat", or other such things. It's the literary equivalent of someone buying a trophy of a tennis racket and claiming that they won Wimbledon: trying to crowbar in a kind of acknowledgement while lacking the substance needed to back up or encourage people to genuinely make that acknowledgement.

 

So, as long as you don't do that--try directly or indirectly to force perceptions on others--then the concept is fine. Roll with the punches, have a plan for getting called out, and play the gimmick straight. Do that and it'll be fine.

[Virella]

Can't see people having an issue with it OOC, as long you make clear your character is bullshitting. However I hope you are very much capable of diverting IC from OOC because you have a chance of people being flat out rude or cruel if your character is bullshitting them. Using the female nuhn for example, might piss off some tribal cats, people may question your characters sexuality, gender ect. I know some people don't like those topics being touched upon in roleplay. So do think twice if you want to do it or not. Are you capable of not confusing IC with OOC? Hell go for it, sounds hilarious to deal with.

[D'aito Kuji]

I would love to have D'aito Kuji encounter someone claiming to be a female Nuhn.  It would make her so upset.  She can't even stand Seekers eternity bonding.  But that could make for some excellent RP.

 

As long as someone isn't trying to control my characters perceptions or feelings, I think most things are possible, lore breaking or not.  If I'm free to disbelieve or make a counterargument, I wouldn't have an issue at all.

[LiadansWhisper]

I don't really see a problem with it as long as you don't tell people they can't call you out IC.

 

Because if my character caught you pretending to be a Padjal, there would be some serious yelling. 

[Jana]

Personally, I'm thinking of a female seeker miqo'te who is an adventurer but claims the nunh title for a splinter tribe that no longer actually exists.

 

Jana's threatened a Nunh with killing him for his women before. Maybe I ought to make her act on those kinds of impulses.

 

Edit: What just happened to my quote, ok fixed it.

[Khoure]

Personally, I'm thinking of a female seeker miqo'te who is an adventurer but claims the nunh title for a splinter tribe that no longer actually exists.

 

Jana's threatened a Nunh with killing him for his women before. Maybe I ought to make her act on those kinds of impulses.

 

Edit: What just happened to my quote, ok fixed it.

 

well, given that the tribe fizzled out, she doesn't actually have any women lol

 

basically, my character concept includes her having a pretty complicated relationship with her own culture. It's been stated in lore I believe that splinter tribes formed when a tia convinces women to leave with him so he can become a nunh (rather than defeated the nunh of the original tribe) are very rare and don't generally last. Without going into details (though I may open a thread in character workshop later) she came from one such short lasted splinter tribe and was given a very negative perspective on seeker tribes. So the Nunh thing is partly a purposeful lashing out at seeker tribe culture, and partly emotional defense mechanism/self justification.

 

The player should expect they might face consequences for their deception,  however.

 

yeah I can understand that. In fact, that's why I thought making this type of character would be interesting. I'm not really good at walkup rp, but I figure someone giving my character crap for claiming something they can't or otherwise aren't would be a good conversation starter. And it would be interesting too to see which players might allow their characters to go along with it (for my miqo'te idea for example, someone form say Ishgard might have no experience with miqo'te tribes and therefore would take her for her word whereas another seeker who is actually part of a tribe might pick a fight over it)

 

for something like the au ra pretending at padjal.. well, I thought it up on the spot to give examples, but I suspect she would get run out of gridania quite quickly, and laughed out of most other places. Which could be interesting on its own, the idea of a down-on-her-luck conwoman who just can't make a believable ploy ("okay okay, I'm not a padjal. But I AM a messenger sent by the twelve themselves to gift Eorzeans with these protective charms of legend, for but a small f-" "NO.")

 

The gist of things though, is that as long as I OOC make it abundantly clear I'm not actually playing whatever lore breaking thing my character claims, and as long as I keep IC confrontations IC, I should be okay from most OOC complaints?

[Marisa]

I used to IC claim that Marisa wasn't a miqo'te. I mean, she very obviously is, she's just oblivious to the fact. Most folks would take this as me trying to RP as something other than my in-game character, when really it was just IC delusion.  

 

Anyway, my point is, if you're known as a serious RPer, wild and fantastical bullshit will usually be interpreted as just that. It's minor and mild bullshit where you have to go out of your way to be like "OOC: I'm lying right now" or "My character is just really dumb"

[Kismet]

It's all in the presentation! :lol:

 

My main, Y'raja, calls herself the actual Godsbow. She does this in an intentionally boisterous and obnoxious manner, to such a point that a person's character would either have to be tremendously sheltered/gullible or brain-dead to believe that BS. Does she actually believe this herself? Nah. It's more of a long-running joke that's spawned from a mix of fond childhood memories and nervous things that were blurted out by mistake. But will she gladly ride the wave of ANYONE who'd actually think she's serious? Hell, yeah!

 

As others have said, if you can't convey this well IC, there's nothing wrong with some OOC clarification of "hey, my character's just crazy/goofy/a moron". The majority of people should understand. =)

[Dravus]

I see no problem with this unless the player actually rps as being able to do things they shouldn't be able to do.

 

The player should expect they might face consequences for their deception,  however.

 

This is key - though it's worth noting that those consequences may result in bodily harm, imprisonment, exile or death depending on the severity of the false claims made. I could easily see the Gridanians seeing a false Padjal as a grave insult, not to mention the Elementals would be liable to just smite whoever was falsely claiming to be one.

 

As another rough example, lying about being a Temple Knight in Ishgard would result in Trial by Combat - but then if your character endures and survives then one has to wonder if it's even a consequence at all if they emerge largely unscathed.

 

It's about weighing up the pros and cons that come with such things in my opinion. Though I'm very big on the idea that IC actions have IC consequences.

[Nebbs]

Short answer is people should not have a problem, I mostly put a skin over the lore rather than using it direct. 

 

However, many will take the opportunity to judge you and even point it out to you that you are wrong. Thats just life.

[Sigil.9054]

I've done this before in other games, and it's hard to make work. You'll get people dismissing you OOC constantly, unless you've already made yourself known as a "legitimate" RPer. It's really the kind of thing that almost requires supoorting roleplayes.

 

Still, hope I run across you. It would be interesting to see how you work it.

[Aaron]

In short you get a different reaction from each person. 

 

Me for example? If you told Aaron you were a black mage. He really wouldn't care.

 

If you told him you were Bahamut in disguise and genuinely meant it. He still wouldn't care.

 

If you told him you were a figment of his imagination. He'd look lost initially and go wtf, but he'd eventually get over it.

 

Not like you telling him you're some special snowflake is gonna cause the world to end right off the bat. So why throw a fit over it?

 

But most people IC (Keyword IC) are those types that want to be the hero or have to have some moral code to them that makes even saying you're a padjal or whatever something that'd cause their mind to fry.

 

Long as you ain't spamming Holy going LOOK AT ME IM A WHM honestly anyone outside of heretic hunters or police really shouldn't be bothered with you lying like that.

 

But that's just my opinion. Im pretty chill on all the lore and such.

[Ignacius]

I'll put it this way, RPers aren't usually going to have a problem if they know what they're getting into, but things like race and gender are written into the character and are taken, up-front, as read.  Trying to do an end-run around them is usually not worth the trouble.

 

Sometimes, it's not such a problem.  In WoW, for example, the Death Knights are, by lore, meant to be dead but there is a loophole to state that they may not be.  People playing live Death Knights tend to catch some flack, but not much.  It usually doesn't come up in introductory conversation.

 

However, sometimes it can be a problem.  Also in WoW, I played with someone who played a female character who was meant to be a slim male.  That really didn't work that well.  People automatically assumed the character was a woman (despite his RSP and protestations).  Most people he met automatically assumed he was a male and, when politely "corrected", weren't interested in playing with him.  Just because having to go OOC within the first few minutes is NOT good.

 

So generally speaking, you can minimize the issue in some situations, but you'd better be ready to have an IC reason to roll with the punches.  For example, if your Au Ra is actually a Padjal, you HAVE to have your character ready to accept that IC.  Hell, you might WANT that misinformation, to have people think you're an Au Ra when you're not.

 

Making up your tribe is comparatively easier, though.  That's not written on your character.  You should be fine.

[Amelia]

I might just be lore-stupid... but I thought that in and through ARR, a lot of those job classes were actually making a comeback.

 

I can't really say for BLM as I don't know much about the story, but for WHM, the Padjals are bringin' WHM back like Justin Timberlake, as far as I can tell.

 

Am I wrong for making my character a White Mage ICly because I assume I wouldn't be the ONLY one to learn under the Padjals?

[Sylentmana]

I might just be lore-stupid... but I thought that in and through ARR, a lot of those job classes were actually making a comeback.

 

I can't really say for BLM as I don't know much about the story, but for WHM, the Padjals are bringin' WHM back like Justin Timberlake, as far as I can tell.

 

Am I wrong for making my character a White Mage ICly because I assume I wouldn't be the ONLY one to learn under the Padjals?

 

That there is a can of worms you don't want to open. Trust me, it never goes well.

[Sin]

I might just be lore-stupid... but I thought that in and through ARR, a lot of those job classes were actually making a comeback.

 

I can't really say for BLM as I don't know much about the story, but for WHM, the Padjals are bringin' WHM back like Justin Timberlake, as far as I can tell.

 

Am I wrong for making my character a White Mage ICly because I assume I wouldn't be the ONLY one to learn under the Padjals?

 

That there is a can of worms you don't want to open. Trust me, it never goes well.

 

It goes well sometimes.

 

But, Amelia, yes, you're wrong. The Padjals aren't bringing WHM back like JT. In fact, quite the opposite... they're  very distrustful of you, and everyone else for that matter. They safeguard the secrets to Succor like if they were nuclear launch control codes.

 

Which they are. Since, you know, whole world got nuked last time people learned willy nilly.

 

The main character of the game, the Warrior of Light is made the exception AFTER A LOT OF PROTESTATION, with a Soulstone loving you up and by then you were a bona-fide, primal slaying, beefcake that lived to protect Eorzea, and had the backing of the three nations.

[FreelanceWizard]

I can't really say for BLM as I don't know much about the story, but for WHM, the Padjals are bringin' WHM back like Justin Timberlake, as far as I can tell.

 

Am I wrong for making my character a White Mage ICly because I assume I wouldn't be the ONLY one to learn under the Padjals?

 

Actually, in the lore panel at Fanfest, it was confirmed by Fernehalwes that the mechanism of learning Succor portrayed in the MSQ is available to the Warrior of Light alone, and that the Padjal aren't teaching it to others. He did mention, though, that there are other means of accessing Succor. Depending on how you interpret what he said, those means are nefarious or some of the people pursuing them/those means are nefarious. (I don't have the link handy, but I expect Sounsyy will be around with it soon enough. )

 

While several of the Jobs are accessible pre-HW without too much creative license, things expand a bit more in Heavensward. A whole organization is learning and using Black Magic, though without soulstones, the consequences of its regular use are... fiery, and Gridania prosecutes the ban on Black Magic in a clearly extraterritorial fashion. Machinists actually manufacture soulstones, which is an interesting spin on the concept. The Monks are actively training students and research on and knowledge of Summoning is spreading more widely. Sadly, White Mage remains pretty much locked down for now; its quest line keeps the same "special snowflake" concept.

 

EDIT: With all that said, though, there's very few doors that are firmly shut in XIV, and there's ways to work around the restrictions in your backstory. Maybe a rogue Padjal taught you, maybe you stumbled onto it in your own research, maybe you ran into a Soulstone in Amdapori ruins, etc. Of course, in none of those cases is your character a White Mage per se, as that's something of a sociopolitical construct in Gridania as much as it's a name for one who wields Succor. Also, there's going to be a fair number of powerful people and things gunning for you if it becomes obvious you've gotten access to Succor through one of the various "back doors."

[V'aleera]

The main character of the game, the Warrior of Light is made the exception AFTER A LOT OF PROTESTATION

Though to be clear, those protesting were entirely incapable of stopping the Warrior of Light from accessing White Magic (save through plain force). Once the WoL got picked by the soul crystal the matter was entirely out of the hands of the Padjal and the Elementals.

[Verad]

It's all in the presentation! :lol:

 

My main, Y'raja, calls herself the actual Godsbow. She does this in an intentionally boisterous and obnoxious manner, to such a point that a person's character would either have to be tremendously sheltered/gullible or brain-dead to believe that BS. Does she actually believe this herself? Nah. It's more of a long-running joke that's spawned from a mix of fond childhood memories and nervous things that were blurted out by mistake. But will she gladly ride the wave of ANYONE who'd actually think she's serious? Hell, yeah!

 

As others have said, if you can't convey this well IC, there's nothing wrong with some OOC clarification of "hey, my character's just crazy/goofy/a moron". The majority of people should understand. =)

 

As Eorzea's Greatest Archer, Pending Certain Conditions, I call into question the veracity of this claim.

 

Verad is also, not incidentally, Eorzea's Greatest Lover and Master Merchant. It's all in the memoirs really.

[Amelia]

-deep sigh- Oh well... I guess at the very least, Amelia doesn't ICly CALL herself that... I just do. Kind of sucks... I don't want to be a special snowflake, I just wanna be a damn White Mage...

 

I guess as long as I just keep continuing to play her ICly as a gifted healer no one will notice my sin and shame...

 

-slinks off to lurk again for several months-

[Unnamed Mercenary]

-deep sigh- Oh well... I guess at the very least, Amelia doesn't ICly CALL herself that... I just do. Kind of sucks... I don't want to be a special snowflake, I just wanna be a damn White Mage...

 

I guess as long as I just keep continuing to play her ICly as a gifted healer no one will notice my sin and shame...

 

-slinks off to lurk again for several months-

 

Wait! Come back! There's something you brought up that could be an excellent and potentially dangerous topic of discussion: What is it about having the title of White Mage that makes it more appealing than say, a Conjuror, Arcanist, Astrologian or Scholar? Naturally, we know that White Mage is a big-name job within the Final Fantasy series. But that's a concept that widens the scope of discussion beyond just FFXIV.

[Amelia]

-deep sigh- Oh well... I guess at the very least, Amelia doesn't ICly CALL herself that... I just do. Kind of sucks... I don't want to be a special snowflake, I just wanna be a damn White Mage...

 

I guess as long as I just keep continuing to play her ICly as a gifted healer no one will notice my sin and shame...

 

-slinks off to lurk again for several months-

 

Wait! Come back! There's something you brought up that could be an excellent and potentially dangerous topic of discussion: What is it about having the title of White Mage that makes it more appealing than say, a Conjuror, Arcanist, Astrologian or Scholar? Naturally, we know that White Mage is a big-name job within the Final Fantasy series. But that's a concept that widens the scope of discussion beyond just FFXIV.

-mutters softly- Conjurers don't get the cool classic robes. They get shapeless potato sacks.

 

I guess being a long time fan of FF9, I always wanted to make a WHM/SMN combo. It's no secret that Amelia is heavily based off of Dagger. So naturally the role of a WHM and SMN was very appealing to me.

 

But you're right. It is really the title I'm being a baby about. I get bristly sometimes when I'm told "No, you can't do that because of lore" when mechanically, I WORKED for that damn title. I healed that damn tree with my own blood and sweat... leaving it a really messed up looking and smelling tree in the Black Shroud, but DAMN that quest was hard at the time!

 

Would being a conjurer instead of White Mage change Amelia's story? No. Mainly because I don't really have her walking around calling herself that. Again, it's just something I associate her with. I guess the most she'd ever say is call some of her abilities 'White Magic.'

 

I don't really want to make people mad by bending or breaking lore, but telling someone that they can't ICly be something that they can actually be in the game just seems... I dunno. There's a word for it that escapes me. Unfair-ish?

 

Again, it's not something I want because I want my character to be a special snowflake... but because it's something that just feels like it really fits. I know that thinking and feeling this way is wrong as a Role-player... and I know a lot of people disagree. For that I apologize.