mongi291 Posted December 12, 2015 Share #26 Posted December 12, 2015 I must disagree. She uses Holy before ever entering the Lifestream, her shieldy thing is a WHM ability now, and lastly the production notes given to the VAs list her as a WHM specifically. Actually, she uses... Flow. The precursor to Teleport/Return. In fact, the use if it was literally why she was in the Lifestream in the first place. This. Also, when you first meet her, if you started in Limsa, she's called "Cultured Conjurer" before she's given a name. And her shield is an AST ability, not a WHM one. If anything, being Sharlayan and all, she'd be more likely to be an AST than a WHM. But she is neither. Just a really good Conjurer. 2 Link to comment
Kellach Woods Posted December 12, 2015 Share #27 Posted December 12, 2015 nothing is impossible But yea, WHM comes with a certain baggage - Learn it, then decide if you want that baggage or no. Link to comment
Yssen Posted December 12, 2015 Share #28 Posted December 12, 2015 I must disagree. She uses Holy before ever entering the Lifestream, her shieldy thing is a WHM ability now, and lastly the production notes given to the VAs list her as a WHM specifically. Actually, she uses... Flow. The precursor to Teleport/Return. In fact, the use if it was literally why she was in the Lifestream in the first place. This. Also, when you first meet her, if you started in Limsa, she's called "Cultured Conjurer" before she's given a name. And her shield is an AST ability, not a WHM one. If anything, being Sharlayan and all, she'd be more likely to be an AST than a WHM. But she is neither. Just a really good Conjurer. At the risk of steering off topic. I must disagree. Even if on the basis of SE's production notes to the VAs alone. That is SE telling the people that portray her and other characters (or that direct the person doing the portrayal) exactly what she is. A WHM, just like Thancred is a THF, Yda is a MNK, etc. Anyway. Did not mean to de-rail from the topic at hand. To steer back to that, it can be seen that many people have very differing opinions and views on just how prolific WHM is or is not. It will probably be debated endlessly like DRG, right up until SE tosses a bunch of them in our faces in a CSes and quests. Rarity is not an issue here, and I cannot stress enough that you should just do you. Do as you want. Rock on with your bad self. Be an Avatar possessing half vampire were-burito if that is your thing. Make interesting story and rp. No one here holds the entire ultimania of FFXIV, or even knows for absolute certain what the heck is or isn't in it. The worse that will happen is you'll be wrong about the "nefarious" method's details, should you go that route. Lots of people have had good advice about character work, which is good stuff. You should also remember one of the best rules of good RP. "An Assassin does not run around a crowded tavern telling everyone that they are an Assassin." So, you do have you character become a WHM by whatever method, who is your character going to trust enough to tell? Yar. Link to comment
Faye Posted December 12, 2015 Share #29 Posted December 12, 2015 You can RP whatever you want, and you will surely still find people willing to RP with you if you're a white mage. However, I'm afraid there's no way to do it within lore and believability if you have any concerns about that (and even if you don't concern yourself with that, please be aware that if you do choose to RP this, some people may try to deter you away from the idea toward something more lore-friendly instead--some people may do it gently, some may not). Link to comment
mongi291 Posted December 12, 2015 Share #30 Posted December 12, 2015 I must disagree. She uses Holy before ever entering the Lifestream, her shieldy thing is a WHM ability now, and lastly the production notes given to the VAs list her as a WHM specifically. Actually, she uses... Flow. The precursor to Teleport/Return. In fact, the use if it was literally why she was in the Lifestream in the first place. This. Also, when you first meet her, if you started in Limsa, she's called "Cultured Conjurer" before she's given a name. And her shield is an AST ability, not a WHM one. If anything, being Sharlayan and all, she'd be more likely to be an AST than a WHM. But she is neither. Just a really good Conjurer. At the risk of steering off topic. I must disagree. Even if on the basis of SE's production notes to the VAs alone. That is SE telling the people that portray her and other characters (or that direct the person doing the portrayal) exactly what she is. A WHM, just like Thancred is a THF, Yda is a MNK, etc. Anyway. Did not mean to de-rail from the topic at hand. To steer back to that, it can be seen that many people have very differing opinions and views on just how prolific WHM is or is not. It will probably be debated endlessly like DRG, right up until SE tosses a bunch of them in our faces in a CSes and quests. Rarity is not an issue here, and I cannot stress enough that you should just do you. Do as you want. Rock on with your bad self. Be an Avatar possessing half vampire were-burito if that is your thing. Make interesting story and rp. No one here holds the entire ultimania of FFXIV, or even knows for absolute certain what the heck is or isn't in it. The worse that will happen is you'll be wrong about the "nefarious" method's details, should you go that route. Lots of people have had good advice about character work, which is good stuff. You should also remember one of the best rules of good RP. "An Assassin does not run around a crowded tavern telling everyone that they are an Assassin." So, you do have you character become a WHM by whatever method, who is your character going to trust enough to tell? Yar. While Thancred may be a THF, Yda is not a MNK either. She's just a PGL. I don't get this whole VA thing. If Yda's a MNK, and Y'shtola's a WHM, then why are never seen using Chakras and Succor, respectively, and why do they act like they don't even know what one of those job is? Honestly until I either hear word of god about it (VAs doesn't really count, IMO. They could have been told that just to make them understand better their character's role) or see anything in-game, I'll take the skeptic route and say they are just a PGL and a CNJ. That being said, yeah, we should avoid going off-topic. 1 Link to comment
Melkire Posted December 12, 2015 Share #31 Posted December 12, 2015 There is nothing preventing anyone from roleplaying as any of FFXIV's jobs. No matter how much anyone else might try to gainsay that through shaming, the truth is that what you roleplay is entirely up to you, and how well your roleplay is received is entirely up to which crowds you roleplay with. That said, adhering closely to lore out of respect for the setting will mean at least one of two things: 1. If the job in question is extremely rare or almost universally condemned (at the time of writing, that would be WHM and BLM respectively, with SMN and SCH following behind WHM in terms of rarity), then you will more than likely want to write your character such that they go to great lengths to hide and/or conceal their talent(s) from the vast majority of their fellow Eorzeans. 2. If the job in question involves skills or talents that are exceedingly rare or difficult to come by (SMN requires exposure to Primal-aspected aether, SCH requires a pact with a fairy, and WHM involves either the blessing of the elementals or else ridiculously-difficult-to-acquire knowledge), then you will more than likely want to write a backstory for your character that delves into precisely how they managed to achieve, attain, and/or fulfill the basic requirements necessary to be deemed and counted as a SMN/SCH/WHM/whatever. 1 Link to comment
V'aleera Posted December 12, 2015 Share #32 Posted December 12, 2015 Succor can be acquired in four distinct ways: -Learn it from an Elemental. -Learn it from a Padjal. -Learn it from Amdapor. -Find a soul crystal. The first one is pretty unlikely, the rest are varying degrees of believable. 1 Link to comment
111 Posted December 12, 2015 Share #33 Posted December 12, 2015 Succor can be acquired in four distinct ways: -Learn it from an Elemental. -Learn it from a Padjal. -Learn it from Amdapor. -Find a soul crystal. The first one is pretty unlikely, the rest are varying degrees of believable. Hey there are other cool options! Like time travel, or an ancient tome. The other possibility is just don't tell anyone. There is no requirement that your character divulge ICLY or OOCLY how they learned to handle succor. Link to comment
Yssen Posted December 12, 2015 Share #34 Posted December 12, 2015 Succor can be acquired in four distinct ways: -Learn it from an Elemental. -Learn it from a Padjal. -Learn it from Amdapor. -Find a soul crystal. The first one is pretty unlikely, the rest are varying degrees of believable. Hey there are other cool options! Like time travel, or an ancient tome. The other possibility is just don't tell anyone. There is no requirement that your character divulge ICLY or OOCLY how they learned to handle succor. ^ THIS! All of this. Then think on what could happen if something (either PC or plot NPC) finds out the secret. Blackmailed? Becoming hunted? Attempted capture for study? Conflict! Drama! Shenanigans! All elements of a good time. Yar. Link to comment
LiadansWhisper Posted December 14, 2015 Share #35 Posted December 14, 2015 I really want to be a White Mage, but apparently the lore staits only Pajald can be and they are then isolated for using such magic. But you can become a white mage in game as what you are and that... So do I really have to give up becoming one and switch my characters class/job activities so I can RP with her?? Let me know if their is anyway around this, and if not, I just need feedback! Thanks! :love: Yes. You just have to "sell" your explanation for how you got around the restriction. That's all. Sell it to us. Make it believable and seriously, no one will care. But please don't pretend the restriction isn't there at all. Link to comment
LiadansWhisper Posted December 14, 2015 Share #36 Posted December 14, 2015 The other possibility is just don't tell anyone. There is no requirement that your character divulge ICLY or OOCLY how they learned to handle succor. This is actually the most sensible way, imo, to handle it IC. White Magic is a forbidden discipline, but because it is forbidden, 99.99% of people you encounter shouldn't be able to tell what school of magic you're using if you're drawing on Succor, since pretty much the Padjal are the only ones to have used it in almost a thousand years. They might know something is off, but seriously, that's some heavy-duty Lore to be able to justify knowing just from observing the magic that you're using Succor. Link to comment
Teadrinker Posted December 14, 2015 Share #37 Posted December 14, 2015 Succor can be acquired in four distinct ways: -Learn it from an Elemental. -Learn it from a Padjal. -Learn it from Amdapor. -Find a soul crystal. The first one is pretty unlikely, the rest are varying degrees of believable. Hey there are other cool options! Like time travel, or an ancient tome. The other possibility is just don't tell anyone. There is no requirement that your character divulge ICLY or OOCLY how they learned to handle succor. I feel like I need to stick a giant asterisk next to this that says * It might be wise to inform someone OOCly if they are showing to become a frequent RP partner so you don't inadvertently drag them into something they don't find compatible with the lore as they accept it. Link to comment
Verilys Posted December 14, 2015 Share #38 Posted December 14, 2015 Succor can be acquired in four distinct ways: -Learn it from an Elemental. -Learn it from a Padjal. -Learn it from Amdapor. -Find a soul crystal. The first one is pretty unlikely, the rest are varying degrees of believable. Hey there are other cool options! Like time travel, or an ancient tome. The other possibility is just don't tell anyone. There is no requirement that your character divulge ICLY or OOCLY how they learned to handle succor. I feel like I need to stick a giant asterisk next to this that says * It might be wise to inform someone OOCly if they are showing to become a frequent RP partner so you don't inadvertently drag them into something they don't find compatible with the lore as they accept it. That sounds like an excellent way to spoil some interesting developments in character interactions though. Link to comment
Teadrinker Posted December 14, 2015 Share #39 Posted December 14, 2015 Succor can be acquired in four distinct ways: -Learn it from an Elemental. -Learn it from a Padjal. -Learn it from Amdapor. -Find a soul crystal. The first one is pretty unlikely, the rest are varying degrees of believable. Hey there are other cool options! Like time travel, or an ancient tome. The other possibility is just don't tell anyone. There is no requirement that your character divulge ICLY or OOCLY how they learned to handle succor. I feel like I need to stick a giant asterisk next to this that says * It might be wise to inform someone OOCly if they are showing to become a frequent RP partner so you don't inadvertently drag them into something they don't find compatible with the lore as they accept it. That sounds like an excellent way to spoil some interesting developments in character interactions though. Which can be avoided by not playing an exceedingly difficult character concept and just writing out an awesome narrative. Someone used the the word 'vapid' earlier. A revelation like "I'ma white mage." would kinda fall into that category for me. This is my opinion. Link to comment
Verilys Posted December 14, 2015 Share #40 Posted December 14, 2015 Which can be avoided by not playing an exceedingly difficult character concept and just writing out an awesome narrative. Someone used the the word 'vapid' earlier. A revelation like "I'ma white mage." would kinda fall into that category for me. This is my opinion. Well, yes, but most anything can be described thus when condensed down to three or four words. The fact of the matter is that when you begin to RP frequently enough with someone, they're probably going to do something at some point, ICly or OOCly, that you don't necessarily agree with. I don't see why this particular subjects would require a disclaimer any more than any variety of others. Link to comment
LiadansWhisper Posted December 14, 2015 Share #41 Posted December 14, 2015 * It might be wise to inform someone OOCly if they are showing to become a frequent RP partner so you don't inadvertently drag them into something they don't find compatible with the lore as they accept it. Or you can avoid mixing OOC and IC and just make sure it never comes up IC if you're really worried about it. But if you've played it really solidly, I doubt any decent RPer is going to have an issue with it, and if they do, they can speak to you then. Link to comment
Harmonixer Posted December 14, 2015 Share #42 Posted December 14, 2015 Just fucking RP an WHM, no one is gonna attack you over it and anyone that does is a massive dickface and you don't want to spend time with them anyway. Seriously, you'll be fine. Just consider what brings you more enjoyable RP above all else without harming other people's shit and you'll spend far less time stressing about it. Link to comment
Teadrinker Posted December 14, 2015 Share #43 Posted December 14, 2015 * It might be wise to inform someone OOCly if they are showing to become a frequent RP partner so you don't inadvertently drag them into something they don't find compatible with the lore as they accept it. Or you can avoid mixing OOC and IC and just make sure it never comes up IC if you're really worried about it. But if you've played it really solidly, I doubt any decent RPer is going to have an issue with it, and if they do, they can speak to you then. Allegations and assumptions aside, anything can be awesome and solid depending on context and the skill of the writer. That isn't worth debating or commenting on. OP asked for general opinions and I have added mine to the discussion. Link to comment
LiadansWhisper Posted December 14, 2015 Share #44 Posted December 14, 2015 Allegations and assumptions aside, anything can be awesome and solid depending on context and the skill of the writer. That isn't worth debating or commenting on. OP asked for general opinions and I have added mine to the discussion. Yup and I disagreed and explained why. We can both have opinions! :surprise: Link to comment
Kellach Woods Posted December 14, 2015 Share #45 Posted December 14, 2015 Yup and I disagreed and explained why. We can both have opinions! :surprise: NO, OPINIONS ARE FORBIDDEN. F'real tho, you can legitimately RP whatever so long as the story makes sense. Link to comment
Larson Posted December 14, 2015 Share #46 Posted December 14, 2015 I personally find the whole, "Nobody can tell you what to RP, so do what you want" thing to be pandering and false. We CAN tell you what to RP. In fact all of these suggestions are telling you what to RP or what RP will be found acceptable. You have the option of employing the suggestions given or having a difficult time. We love to say you have creative freedom. You do! But like NPC RPers, once you choose to step beyond what is commonly accepted in the universe, you alienate yourself. Doesn't matter how many people tell you to play a Primal or a Padjal or a time-space witch or Minfilia "if it makes you happy". The world and its rules were crated by Square Enix. If you want to change how the world works, ask them to change it. Doing it yourself causes problems that don't need to exist. As suggested, the BEST thing to do is play a powerful Conjurer. You don't need White Magic. But if you absolutely have to play an actual White Mage, avoid saying an Elemental gave it to you. You can't play a Padjal. I'd personally also avoid "I randomly found a Soul Crystal while on a leisurely stroll through the ruins of Amdapor." It's kind of a cop-out. UNLESS. You have a very good reason for even being there in the first place. 1 Link to comment
Kage Posted December 14, 2015 Share #47 Posted December 14, 2015 When you ask, "is it impossible," of course the answer will be "no, it's not impossible". You are most likely asking the wrong question though. There are better questions to ask both yourself and then ask others. How widespread or accepted do you want your RP? Are you going to be happy with just a few or do you want acceptance from everyone? Do you want to pander to the masses or are you ok with the idea that you will most likely be ignored? If you are willing to just have fun, then fuck it, work in the soulstone or WoL with a group with like minds and go at it. Write it well, have fun, and get your Succor on. If you have no issues with having fun and aren't going to care about pandering to everyone, good for you. Everyone who bitches and moans about -your- RP more than just saying "Oh that person is a WHM... I will most likely end up just ignoring them for IC sake" are jealous boohoos with more concern about the RP you're getting. Fact: Lots of roleplayers are selective. They will not all roleplay with all people and with all characters. I myself am quite selective with who I will roleplay and interact with but I am -also- perfectly fine with not RPing 24/7. I don't mind that I do not cater to everyone else's desires and opinions. Will I RP with NPC rpers? Nope. Am I going to bash them? Nope. Make a comment or two and then go about my way? Most likely. Want to read what antics and shenanigans the Heavensward RPers as well as the Fortemps RPers get into? Possible... Most likely the same with White Mage RPers. If you do care that people will end up ignoring a White Mage, either due to OOC bias or because somehow their character even -knows- the differences between Conjury and White Mage Succor... then well you are most likely better off not roleplaying a White Mage. People don't like it when you head into 'special snowflake' 'WoL' or other because it puts you into more of a spotlight and less on the stage. Link to comment
Oli! Posted December 14, 2015 Share #48 Posted December 14, 2015 Perhaps there's lore somewhere that refutes this view, but I find myself doubting the "find a soulstone" angle to begin with. From what we know (and / or guess) about Soulstones, they are basically contained knowledge and memories, not actual aptitude for something. If they contained the actual ability to do a job, then giving a handicapped man a MNK soulstone would give him the ability to do kung-fu and backflips, and giving the Gem of Shattoto to the aetherless Thaumaturge brother would make him the world's most powerful wizard. With the boxes and boxes of PLD soulstones that Ul'dah apparently has, they could hand a stone out to every man, woman, and child, and have the most powerful military on the continent. Additionally, before you're given any of these Soulstones in the first place, you're already accomplished in the foundations of what makes those jobs possible, to the point of maybe even being the best at it in certain cases. Finding a WHM soulstone seems like it might give you the knowledge to control Succor, but I highly doubt that it would give you the succor itself, considering we apparently have evidence that suggests that Succor was given, and not created. If this is indeed the case, then it wouldn't be possible to gain control of Succor simply by gaining a Soulstone, you would still have to go to the source. If I had to guess, the "nefarious second way" that someone quoted one of the devs as saying would be something along the lines of "finding a Padjal or Elemental and kicking the Succor out of them," since that still involves getting Succor from the source material in some way. 1 Link to comment
Luzia Dawn Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share #49 Posted December 14, 2015 I guess I meant is it impossible while following the Lore specifically. However, I am just choosing to lvl her up in White mage so I can have access to lvl 60 in that, but she is just gonna be a really powerful conjurer/healer IC and she will not use spells learned by the white mage IC. I am happy with this decision...her basic goal is to be a really helpful healer, so I guess the title does not matter. (I just liked the title white mage better due to previous FF games is all) Link to comment
Warren Castille Posted December 14, 2015 Share #50 Posted December 14, 2015 I guess I meant is it impossible while following the Lore specifically. However, I am just choosing to lvl her up in White mage so I can have access to lvl 60 in that, but she is just gonna be a really powerful conjurer/healer IC and she will not use spells learned by the white mage IC. I am happy with this decision...her basic goal is to be a really helpful healer, so I guess the title does not matter. (I just liked the title white mage better due to previous FF games is all) I think most of us agree that taking an iconic job in the series and sticking it behind a ridiculous number of hoops and qualifications was one of the more cruel dick moves SE has done in XIV, at least for roleplayers. Link to comment
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