Ishgard, post 3.3 (OBVIOUSLY SPOILERS FOR MSQ)

[111]

On a second side note, as you learn afterwards, the bridge was not the only battleground. It was just the only battleground that had nidhogg. 

 

The Dragoons and Knights and Cannons and etc were probably off defending the other parts of the city.

 

On a third side note, I'm excited to have Evangeline be angry that no one invited her to be the president of the new Republic.

 

"WHAT!? HAVE THEY SEEN MY CREDENTIALS? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE."

[V'aleera]

We explicitly know that fighting occurred in the "outer wards". That is where Emmanellain was stationed, and where the dragon killer cannons/ballistae were positioned. From the sounds of it a separate force of dragons/wyverns were sent to assault the city itself. It's possible only the not-so-huge dragons could attack the city directly due to the presence of Daniffen's Collar projecting it's protective barrier.

[111]

We explicitly know that fighting occurred in the "outer wards". That is where Emmanellain was stationed, and where the dragon killer cannons/ballistae were positioned. From the sounds of it a separate force of dragons/wyverns were sent to assault the city itself. It's possible only the not-so-huge dragons could attack the city directly due to the presence of Daniffen's Collar projecting it's protective barrier.

 

As we saw in the original steps of faith, and the Brume, there is some reason why the larger drakes need to attack along the bridge (obviously the real reason is engine limitations  )

 

In steps of faith, you stop the Dragon before it gets to the end, but the Brume still gets all burned and fucked up. I can imagine the Dragoons staying back along the spires, where they can get better aiming points, instead of standing on the bridge.

[Yssen]

Something that I've been mentally chewing on since I saw it, but it unrelated to Ishgard itself:

 

We watch Lucia block a stream of fire with her shield, which sends her back dramatically but leaves her unharmed. Lucia's a pure-blooded Garlean with a third eye. That means she can't channel aether. THAT means that "ordinary" people can definitely do things at a higher power level: Her sword also shoots off big bursts of energy during the Steps battle.

 

Seems pretty concrete to me that the "baseline" of power is higher than Earth-Mortal standards!

 

Could be that she's got some high-quality equipment that has its own infusion of aether. It would be appropriate for Lucia, of all people in Ishgard, to have it. After all, the lack of jumping dragoons and godlike powers in that cutscene indicate that the loss of the Knights Twelve hasn't exactly been addressed yet, not that we ever actually saw those guys doing much of anything useful besides hassling the WoL's buddies and being Thordan's personal guard.

 

Could also be that the Storyboard team and the Lore team missed their lunch dates and weren't exactly in tune with each other.

 

Actually, it is never said that Garleans cannot channel Aether, just that they cannot wield magic. Two different, if similar things. This gone over a little in the Warring Triad side story where Urianger is trying to figure out who screwed up his wards.

[Eliane Dufresne]

Can any Brits in the house offer an ELI5 on how this whole thing works? <.< I'm a Yank lurking in Canada, so I only kind of know about the British government. As I understand it though, the TLDR is:

 

House of Commons -- Commoners, are democratically elected.

 

House of Lords -- Clergymen and Nobility. Initially -all- noble families were given a seat, then they had to be appointed.

 

Aymeric -- How the hell do we refer to him? Is he the Lord Speaker or the Lord Chancellor now?

 

Both Houses -- Either can introduce a bill, but it can't pass without the other's approval? Neither can stop a bill from going into law, but they can scrutinize it and send it back for editing until a compromise has been reached (in theory anyway)?

 

It seems like the system has been through a lot of reform, especially since the early 2000's, so it'd be interesting to know which version SE is imagining here.

 

Man, they left so much unexplained.

[Virella]

House of Commons -- Commoners, are democratically elected.

If it's going to be anything like UK politics... as far as my ex informed me, it is more 'who can buy votes', so lots of rich folk, who mostly don't even live in the UK, but only fly back x times per year, get these positions.

 

But yeah, as far as I know, they get elected.

[Kellach Woods]

Inquisitors

Do they even exist anymore? The Church's heavy-handed means to keeping Ishgard devout has been presumably abolished in the wake of the revelations of the MSQ, and again that new government thing probably isn't too keen on torturing people for being friends with their new allies.

 

According to the Hildibrand questline, they still exist, and may have something to do with the people shadowing the Mandervilles in Coerthas Western Highlands.

 

Y'know, after Julyan blows a gasket and /bstances with a giant frypan?

[111]

Can any Brits in the house offer an ELI5 on how this whole thing works? <.< I'm a Yank lurking in Canada, so I only kind of know about the British government. As I understand it though, the TLDR is:

 

House of Commons -- Commoners, are democratically elected.

 

House of Lords -- Clergymen and Nobility. Initially -all- noble families were given a seat, then they had to be appointed.

 

Aymeric -- How the hell do we refer to him? Is he the Lord Speaker or the Lord Chancellor now?

 

Both Houses -- Either can introduce a bill, but it can't pass without the other's approval? Neither can stop a bill from going into law, but they can scrutinize it and send it back for editing until a compromise has been reached (in theory anyway)?

 

It seems like the system has been through a lot of reform, especially since the early 2000's, so it'd be interesting to know which version SE is imagining here.

 

Man, they left so much unexplained.

My favorite tidbit of the English Parliamentary fun is that lords and unelected representatives are not allowed in the house of commons.

 

IT IS THE REALM OF THE COMMON (rich and powerful, but common) MAN.

[Wemrys]

Inquisitors

Do they even exist anymore? The Church's heavy-handed means to keeping Ishgard devout has been presumably abolished in the wake of the revelations of the MSQ, and again that new government thing probably isn't too keen on torturing people for being friends with their new allies.

 

According to the Hildibrand questline, they still exist, and may have something to do with the people shadowing the Mandervilles in Coerthas Western Highlands.

 

Y'know, after Julyan blows a gasket and /bstances with a giant frypan?

 

The Hildebrand questline seems to canonically take place before the end of 3.3 and the establishment of the House of Lords/Commons as when you speak with Cyr in Foundation after finishing both those quests and the 3.3 quests he tells you the Inquisitors are packing it up and he's out of a job (see my post on the previous page in this thread).

[Kellach Woods]

Inquisitors

Do they even exist anymore? The Church's heavy-handed means to keeping Ishgard devout has been presumably abolished in the wake of the revelations of the MSQ, and again that new government thing probably isn't too keen on torturing people for being friends with their new allies.

 

According to the Hildibrand questline, they still exist, and may have something to do with the people shadowing the Mandervilles in Coerthas Western Highlands.

 

Y'know, after Julyan blows a gasket and /bstances with a giant frypan?

 

The Hildebrand questline seems to canonically take place before the end of 3.3 and the establishment of the House of Lords/Commons as when you speak with Cyr in Foundation after finishing both those quests and the 3.3 quests he tells you the Inquisitors are packing it up and he's out of a job (see my post on the previous page in this thread).

 

Yeah, but you know that when the questline continues he'll be the point of contact.

[Dravus]

I'm torn, personally. Ishgard was so interesting to me because it wasn't necessarily a pleasant place. We knew as far back as before we stepped through the gates that something wasn't quite right about the place but it feels like a wasted opportunity to me to just wrap up everything into a nice little package where there's peace with the dragons and the rich and poor live side by side in harmony.

 

I hope there's more to do it than that but it's likely that 3.4 and 3.5 will take us away from Ishgard itself now that the battle against Nidhogg is concluded.

 

It's a shame that the Inquisition isn't likely to be a major part of Ishgard anymore - I liked the 'grit' that sort of thing provided since I don't want fantasy nations to succumb to revolving around modern day interpretations of morality and the story can't be as deep as it could be if the antagonists are pushed into the 'evil' category and the protagonists are shown as 'good' at every turn.

 

Still, overall 3.3 was decent enough I suppose. I did walk away a little underwhelmed by the lack of any major deaths, though. I dislike it when nameless generic soldiers are the only real casualties in a major battle. I'm glad Estinien, survived, though. He feels much more 'Ishgardian' to me than Aymeric does.

 

I'm also a little concerned that this 'House of Lords'  and 'House of Commons' will be exploited by certain members of Balmung's community as an excuse to grab a lot of power and influence IC. I won't be getting involved with any of that myself, of course, but much like anyone choosing to avoid interacting with people role-playing major NPC's it can quite easily cut a lot of people out of major player created events.

 

As far as Ishgard is concerned for my character, though, the new airship routes will make it much easier to travel to and from the city so he'll be encouraging Ishgardians to visit La Noscea.

[V'aleera]

I'm almost 100% certain that Estinien will be our DRG job quest NPC in 4.0. Setting him on the adventurer's path was a good move by SE to give them an easy way to establish the future job quests beyond Ishgard. I imagine Orrin's question about the inner dragon stuff will be touched on then as well.

[Delilah Scythewood]

(Snippity Snip)

I think there's still plenty of opportunity to play towards a darker side of Ishgard. I mean, they highlighted in other patches, like with the peace conference, how strongly some people still feel. That is generations of hatred and sorrow and misery. While the upper layer is browning nicely in the warmth of peace, there's still going to be so much going down below that the MSQ would never be able to cover in great detail. Which could also extend to the Inquisition.

 

I'm not too worried about the House of Lords and the House of Commons. Most roleplayers seem to do pretty well with keeping their power at believable levels or being so blatant that it's easy to see from afar and avoid if desired.

 

I cried like a bitch at the end of everything. Because I'm a sap.

[Kellach Woods]

I did not expect to see Ferdiad again after that roflstomping we gave him.

[Seriphyn]

Sultana, you fail. Ishgard beat you to republicanism, and you've been dragging your feet for a year.

 

When I first heard the word 'republic', I was hoping this didn't instantly mean democracy. Ishgard could have been a republic under the rule of the noble houses, where only the nobles elected rulers from among themselves. I suppose that wouldn't fit the narrative of how the lowborn were exploited by the religious nobility for centuries, however.

[Caspar]

I did not expect to see Ferdiad again after that roflstomping we gave him.

They clearly foreshadowed his return with the cackling cutscene after you finish Amdapoor Keep HM, but I didn't think he'd be relevant in a storyline of any sort, just another last boss in a dungeon.

[LystAP]

Sultana, you fail. Ishgard beat you to republicanism, and you've been dragging your feet for a year.

 

When I first heard the word 'republic', I was hoping this didn't instantly mean democracy. Ishgard could have been a republic under the rule of the noble houses, where only the nobles elected rulers from among themselves. I suppose that wouldn't fit the narrative of how the lowborn were exploited by the religious nobility for centuries, however.

Well, in a sense, the clergy also exploited the highborn as well for their war. By separating church from state - you give more power to the high houses, whom no longer need religious motivations to do what they want. While the highborn base a lot off their legitimacy off religious reasons, it doesn't change the fact that they're essentially the rulers of the nation, with or without that Halonic legitimacy; since there are many men who are honestly loyal to them, as exemplified by some of the quests you do.

 

Mind, they have to contend with the House of Commons, but they're also one of the only sources of funding and connections in a historically isolated nation-state that can support those trying to get elected in the Commons. It's the same as with what would have happened in Ul'dah; although the latter would probably be worse, since it's apparently a tradition to bribe people there.

[Teadrinker]

Tbh I think Estenien should have died and the WoL and Alphinaud should have had to kill him.

 

It'd really drive in Matoya's words about what you have to be willing to do in a war and would have been a pretty badass stepping stone for the character.

[111]

Tbh I think Estenien should have died and the WoL and Alphinaud should have had to kill him.

 

It'd really drive in Matoya's words about what you have to be willing to do in a war and would have been a pretty badass stepping stone for the character.

Not every lesson needs to come true immediately.

 

Give it some time!

[Aya]

I actually had just mapped out a major many part story that was going to tie into Aya's history in the city, and bring her back to it.  And well.. never mind.  There's just no tension left into it.  I may still use it as the foundation for something, but the underlying characters and plot are just pointless now since the conflict is entirely resolved by the collapse of church authority.

 

I've never liked the trajectory of Ishgard in HW, especially the casting of the Ishgardian Church as cardbord cut-out comic book villains. I feel like its just a loss of terrific potential - and a disappointing way of resolving tension for characters from the city.

 

They write their story, obviously, to be a video game story rather than to provide a setting for original stories, and if I really want to I should be able to write something similar to what I was planning on. But given that I was looking to make a major summer writing project of it I'm really rather disappointed at the moment. I should probably be happy there being absolutely nothing at all keeping Aya from returning to the city, but its about as anti-climactic as it comes. That isn't the way I'd wanted to go about it.

[Kellach Woods]

I did not expect to see Ferdiad again after that roflstomping we gave him.

They clearly foreshadowed his return with the cackling cutscene after you finish Amdapoor Keep HM, but I didn't think he'd be relevant in a storyline of any sort, just another last boss in a dungeon.

 

That's the thing with the void, it has an annoying tendency to not permanently die (unless you use the Nullstone correctly).

 

They write their story, obviously, to be a video game story rather than to provide a setting for original stories, and if I really want to I should be able to write something similar to what I was planning on.  But given that I was looking to make a major summer writing project of it I'm really rather disappointed at the moment. I should probably be happy there being absolutely nothing at all keeping Aya from returning to the city, but its about as anti-climactic as it comes.  That isn't the way I'd wanted to go about it.

 

If one path is blocked, there's always another. If SE isn't providing you with the backstory necessary for your goals, you can make it more into a personal one.

 

To be less douchey-cryptic, if there's nothing within the 3.3 story preventing Aya from returning to Ishgard, could there be something else that's unmentioned?

[Aedan Marceaux]

We all saw that face the PLD of Darkness made. He wants those balls dragon eyes.

 

Now that WoL has the Echo and Hydaelyn's Blessing and the Crystals of Light and a fucking dragon eye, it only seems fair that the Warrior of Darkness go pick up what they didn't destroy. Nidhogg might be dead, but his eyes were poorly disposed of. The moment they were tossed off the bridge, I went "well, these are going to come back later because someone's just going to go pick them up...."

Emphasis mine. 

 

Unless I missed something in the cinematic/text... the WoL no longer has the eye. When he's flying next to Hraesvelgr in the goofy cutscene at the end... I could've sworn I spied his eye returned.

 

Again, perhaps I saw wrong or something... or just missed something in the text.

 

Either way, the WoL is a blizzard of snowflakes that will surely have some way to defend himself from the evil plans of the WoD.

 

Edit: Just went and rewatched the cutscene in mind (Litany of Peace #4). He has his left eye once more.

[Sylastair]

After finishing 3.3 I had to do the Dragoon related questline in Churning Mists to start doing my moogle dailies, and in those I saw something I had thought before but hadn't really seen. Dragoons are changing. In a large chunk of the Churning Mist quest line they are more skilled explorers, taking aether readings, noting new sections of land, and setting up communications with the moogles. They still are fighting monsters that interfere, but it seems to me what a Dragoon is has become more like Star Trek, exploring the final frontier and serving as warrior diplomats/scientists/cartographers. All of this was from levelling quests in 3.0, and seeing where 3.3 has lead, I think the next generation of Dragoons are going to be very very different. The Dragoons who have lived and fought in the war will become relics of a different time, Estinien showing us that in his example, and the empty room with his broken helm. 

 

Personally, I think this is pretty awesome. Sure there will be wiggle room for the 'scattered' forces, but I think Dragoons having to address this large change is even cooler.

[Aya]

If one path is blocked, there's always another. If SE isn't providing you with the backstory necessary for your goals, you can make it more into a personal one.

 

To be less douchey-cryptic, if there's nothing within the 3.3 story preventing Aya from returning to Ishgard, could there be something else that's unmentioned?

It's not SE's fault, though I really do not care for what they have done to Ishgard in HW. It's not impossible to still pursue a story similar to the one I have mapped out, but all of my ideas for it are presently spoiled and that has me bummed. It also seemed apropos to the question posed by the OP, so I posted about it. I can rewrite my proposed storyline entirely within the lower secular class, but there goes the impact of setting, class, and faith in the story. Hooray?

 

Just 'bleh'. All of the punch and substance of the Ishgardian setting has been sucked out of it and replaced with Star Trek-esque bubblegum (thanks for the inspiration of how to put it Flynn!). What had been my favorite and, I thought, most interesting of the city states is now the least.

[S'imba]

I seriously doubt Ishgard is going to be a happy joyful place. With the separation of church and state a lot of people are going to be losing a lot of power. They probably won't be as open about how they were functioning last patch or the one before, where they were kidnapping and all that stuff. Probably slowly and carefully undermine the new Republic. 

 

The other thing is that these people who have been influenced for longer than a a thousand years are still going to be influenced by those teachings. They may know there's a lot of lies but it's doubtful they're going to just give up their beliefs entirely. 

 

You've got this new government with two ruling bodies, the lowborn aren't going to just start liking the highborn.now that they got more power they're going to use that against them. 

 

Those are just my personal opinion on the matter, though se will probably just go with happy land.