Ishgard, post 3.3 (OBVIOUSLY SPOILERS FOR MSQ)

[Warren Castille]

So, that main story, huh? Pretty thrilling at the end. Once I disembarked the roller coaster of feels and turns, though, I was left thinking: Now that Ishgard's a republic and the landscape of the political field has changed, what now?

 

Nobles

The new ruling body composed of both common-bred and noble-born mucks up an awful lot of the political scheming and bloodline hostilities, especially now that it seems chairs are elected.

 

Inquisitors

Do they even exist anymore? The Church's heavy-handed means to keeping Ishgard devout has been presumably abolished in the wake of the revelations of the MSQ, and again that new government thing probably isn't too keen on torturing people for being friends with their new allies.

 

Dragoons, capital-D

An elite team of dragon-killing soldiers who are aligned now aligned with their enemies. Until we've been given a clear idea of what happened to Niddy's brood (MSQ just says "they've scattered" it's uncertain what's going to happen to our bluepurple buddies.

 

So anybody's RP turned upside down from this last patch? It's the first time we've seen giant changes to the landscape since ARR, really, and I'm wondering how people are going to go with the flow.

[Teadrinker]

....I just want my damn Alpine Dress.

 

Hey, Alpine Coat that's great.

 

*looks around*

 

......

 

.........

 

OH WE LADIES DON'T GET ONE DO WE. :frustrated:

 

------------------

 

 

All in all, I found a lot of this very very predictable right down to the how they got the eyes from Estenien.

 

You'll notice they MSQ said that it was House Durrendaire that pushed for the House of Lords and Aymeric to head it. I imagine the former "Lords" are likely in there as well. Realistically, I don't think much as changed. They'll soothe the little people by saying "Ok, you have a voice now." But when it comes time to put that republic to work and they vote I think a lot of votes and ballots from the Brume and Foundation are gonna go missing. I think a lot of rich Nobles are gonna buy their way into things.

 

The specifically said a separation of church and state. This doesn't necessarily mean Inquisitors or Priests go away. It just means they lose representation of the law. Basically, you can no longer be branded a Heratic and tossed into Witchdrop aka YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE. Just only the super pious and super butthurt are going to listen to you.

 

I don't see the Order of the Dragoon vanishing. They are still (lorewise) one of the most powerful physical combatants in existence. It'd be foolish to quit training them or not have them at Ishgard's disposal when say, Oh I don't know, the Garleans come knocking.

 

Honestly, I was really freaking underwhelmed. Just a big, fat AND NOTHING OF VALUE WAS LOST.

 

Aside from really awesome RP and lore....something I loved about Ishgard was the turmoil caused by the Church. RIP.

 

 

[Unnamed Mercenary]

We all saw that face the PLD of Darkness made. He wants those balls dragon eyes.

 

Now that WoL has the Echo and Hydaelyn's Blessing and the Crystals of Light and a fucking dragon eye, it only seems fair that the Warrior of Darkness go pick up what they didn't destroy. Nidhogg might be dead, but his eyes were poorly disposed of. The moment they were tossed off the bridge, I went "well, these are going to come back later because someone's just going to go pick them up...."

 

All the while during the speeches, the only thing I could really think of was "so they're trying to turn Ishgard into something like the USA. Because we all know that people are totally able to separate objective law from subjective religion." I fully expect that the republic is going to bite them in the ass, but Ishgard won't be our main focus anymore. It's time the Shroud got some love seeing how we had Leviathan in Limsa and the Sultana in Ul'dah to make those cities feel special.

[Warren Castille]

Something that I've been mentally chewing on since I saw it, but it unrelated to Ishgard itself:

 

We watch Lucia block a stream of fire with her shield, which sends her back dramatically but leaves her unharmed. Lucia's a pure-blooded Garlean with a third eye. That means she can't channel aether. THAT means that "ordinary" people can definitely do things at a higher power level: Her sword also shoots off big bursts of energy during the Steps battle.

 

Seems pretty concrete to me that the "baseline" of power is higher than Earth-Mortal standards!

[Virella]

House of Commons and House of Lords works so well in real life politics... Nice idea, but I suspect it be a dramalama affair for Ishgard as well If anything, I more reminded me of the UK and not so much the US, seeming the UK literally has the house of commons/lords. Then again, I know fuck all about US politics.

 

But yeah, on paper we got a nice ending!

[Warren Castille]

House of Commons and House of Lords works so well in real life politics... Nice idea, but I suspect it be a dramalama affair for Ishgard as well If anything, I more reminded me of the UK and not so much the US, seeming the UK literally has the house of commons/lords. Then again, I know fuck all about US politics.

 

But yeah, on paper we got a nice ending!

 

Yeah, I don't think it'll be buttery-smooth going forward but it's a vastly different lay of the land compared to "He likes dragons, get 'em!" It puts anyone who had a core concept related to the Church or the nobility in a very tumultuous position.

[Caspar]

Something that I've been mentally chewing on since I saw it, but it unrelated to Ishgard itself:

 

We watch Lucia block a stream of fire with her shield, which sends her back dramatically but leaves her unharmed. Lucia's a pure-blooded Garlean with a third eye. That means she can't channel aether. THAT means that "ordinary" people can definitely do things at a higher power level: Her sword also shoots off big bursts of energy during the Steps battle.

 

Seems pretty concrete to me that the "baseline" of power is higher than Earth-Mortal standards!

Tch. You beat me to it. It's as if you knew I'd comment on it, lol.

 

No need for this any more.

 

*Tosses icameheretolaughatyou.jpg*

 

I actually had some difficulty initially taking the scene seriously when Lucia one shot three dragons in a row. I had figured she was strong, but I thought a Garlean with no aether whatsoever would be more, I dunno, clever about it? I tended to think battle armor was their equalizer with the supernatural. But that was admittedly quickly submerged in the spectacle.

 

Take note that average Temple Knights blocked draconic fire with their shield first in that cutscene too, IIRC. These are normal, non-special elite mooks. The dragons still made quick work of them, but they're still capable of some pretty outrageous stuff.

 

I think Niddhogr's brood scattering is probably a convenient reason for why you can still fight dragons randomly in overworld areas. It feels like that kind of plot element, but at least it can allow Dragoons to still have function in their original intended role.

[Warren Castille]

Yeah, it's sort of a mess for determining what's "real." Cutscene Temple Knights block fire and kill dragons. Rank-and-file Brass Blades get thrown dozens of feet by Amalja'a punching. NPC guards die to FATE trash spawns. The no-aether lady shoots sword lasers like this is a Zelda game.

 

Shit's all over the place.

[Telluride]

Something that I've been mentally chewing on since I saw it, but it unrelated to Ishgard itself:

 

We watch Lucia block a stream of fire with her shield, which sends her back dramatically but leaves her unharmed. Lucia's a pure-blooded Garlean with a third eye. That means she can't channel aether. THAT means that "ordinary" people can definitely do things at a higher power level: Her sword also shoots off big bursts of energy during the Steps battle.

 

Seems pretty concrete to me that the "baseline" of power is higher than Earth-Mortal standards!

 

Could be that she's got some high-quality equipment that has its own infusion of aether. It would be appropriate for Lucia, of all people in Ishgard, to have it. After all, the lack of jumping dragoons and godlike powers in that cutscene indicate that the loss of the Knights Twelve hasn't exactly been addressed yet, not that we ever actually saw those guys doing much of anything useful besides hassling the WoL's buddies and being Thordan's personal guard.

 

Could also be that the Storyboard team and the Lore team missed their lunch dates and weren't exactly in tune with each other.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Well it is a fantasy setting. Their baseline for "normal" could still be wildly different than ours.

 

I mean, they cook with crystals! Think about that for a moment. See that sandwich? I took raw ingredients and shoved a bunch of crystals and aether at it and then -poof-. It was done.

 

It's possible Lucia could secretely be loading up with Garlean tech hidden underneath her armor. It's also possible that the Ishgardians figured out how to make weaponry and shields that are optimized for fighting dragons. Or maybe magical aetherial dragon fire isn't quite the same as using matches?

[Simeon Sibaruse]

Erf... as much as I like the changes in Ishgard I can agree than the Garlean sidekick one shooting three dragons in a row was... puzzling. But on the other hands, you got at the same scene three Temple-Knights obviously struggling against a single wyrm, and a freaking lot of death...

 

So I guess it's easy to tag as one of those character wearing and for the sake of badass cinematics and to distinguish them as important character. Hardly someone to take as a barometer for the random peon no?

[Caspar]

Well it is a fantasy setting. Their baseline for "normal" could still be wildly different than ours.

 

I mean, they cook with crystals! Think about that for a moment. See that sandwich? I took raw ingredients and shoved a bunch of crystals and aether at it and then -poof-. It was done.

 

It's possible Lucia could secretely be loading up with Garlean tech hidden underneath her armor. It's also possible that the Ishgardians figured out how to make weaponry and shields that are optimized for fighting dragons. Or maybe magical aetherial dragon fire isn't quite the same as using matches?

This is generally how I've seen it. I felt that the Eorzeans had to just have greater aetherical power as a baseline to even stand a chance at beating an industrial civilization that is more populous, more advanced, had better tech, and could still use magic through auxiliaries. Even the big toe of Garlemald should be able to squash them, and indeed it would have if not for the dragons, but I think with unpowered mooks the Alliance would have keeled over long before they could. Yet If it is true, having empowered regulars might not even be enough of an advantage. Punished Cred and Lucia can do these things normally.

[Warren Castille]

There can definitely be an argument made for "generic soldier" and named, important people with backgrounds and, you know, faces. I guess there's not anything specific to take away other than that it IS possible to do awesome things without aether, we just can't deduce HOW it is possible.

 

Also, SE? You and me need to have a talk about Lucia BLOCKING MAGIC. That's bullshit because I can't do it even with Bulwark OR Sheltron. :<

[Caspar]

There can definitely be an argument made for "generic soldier" and named, important people with backgrounds and, you know, faces. I guess there's not anything specific to take away other than that it IS possible to do awesome things without aether, we just can't deduce HOW it is possible.

 

Also, SE? You and me need to have a talk about Lucia BLOCKING MAGIC. That's bullshit because I can't do it even with Bulwark OR Sheltron. :<

Even random temple knights could do this, which is even more crazy. Hell if you observe in the cutscene a few are soloing dragons as if it were a medieval battle and they were all separating into separate duels. They ultimately lose, but just being able to survive even without force of numbers for more than a few seconds against a monster with magic breath and armor piercing fangs is kinda beyond most humans IRL I think.

[Warren Castille]

There can definitely be an argument made for "generic soldier" and named, important people with backgrounds and, you know, faces. I guess there's not anything specific to take away other than that it IS possible to do awesome things without aether, we just can't deduce HOW it is possible.

 

Also, SE? You and me need to have a talk about Lucia BLOCKING MAGIC. That's bullshit because I can't do it even with Bulwark OR Sheltron. :<

Even random temple knights could do this, which is even more crazy. Hell if you observe in the cutscene a few are soloing dragons as if it were a medieval battle and they were all separating into separate duels. They ultimately lose, but just being able to survive even without force of numbers for more than a few seconds against a monster with magic breath and armor piercing fangs is kinda beyond most humans IRL I think.

 

It is, but we also can't really tell if Templars are specifically armed or armored to be able to handle dragons. The game never says explicitly one way or not how it works, so it's either specialized equipment that allowed them to not melt immediately or it's one more discrepancy in the list of things people can or can not do. Lucia's actions further muddy the waters.

 

I think SE's just fucking with us.

[Aaron]

I've seen enough instances in game so far that nowadays if someone tries to argue something like adventurers (Why by default are somewhat more capable than typical people) need aether absolutely to do stuff like jump high or dodge gunfire, I don't even take them serious.

 

Even in the ARR opening you had shit like that happening. Lucia blocking fire with her shield is also something you typical see in any dragon vs knight fight honestly final fantasy or not.

[Momoka]

Honestly the rank and file ishgardians being able to somewhat hold dragons at bay is something I can easily hand wave. Their entire society has been at war with them for over a thousand years it makes sense that they'd have something to protect against them. Of all the things in this game I question, this is not one of them.

[Virella]

If I remember correctly though...

 

Doesn't Ishgard use some metal what is capable of withstanding dragonfire to a degree? I do remember a leve of it...

[Momoka]

If I remember correctly though...

 

Doesn't Ishgard use some metal what is capable of withstanding dragonfire to a degree? I do remember a leve of it...

I THINK so yea. It's not drachenmail by any stretch of the word but ishgardians aren't stupid. Of course their people could defend themselves for a bit.

[Caspar]

If I remember correctly though...

 

Doesn't Ishgard use some metal what is capable of withstanding dragonfire to a degree? I do remember a leve of it...

I THINK so yea. It's not drachenmail by any stretch of the word but ishgardians aren't stupid. Of course their people could defend themselves for a bit.

Yeah. Of course, it must take someone tough to endure the extreme heat though, even if not immediately in danger of melting. It is true however that breath-deflecting shields is just kind of a stamdard fantasy thing, though.

[Silmanos]

As someone who rps a dragoon and a minor noble this patch was an interesting one. Firstly as far as the battle itself there were some pretty outrageous things from the temple knights and the fact that drsgoons only get an honorable mention was annoying. I have taken the approach that the bridge battle was far from the only part as in the HW trailer there are dragon killers with dragoons stationed nearby along other parts of the wall. So we can possibly assume they are there as it would be harder for normal knights to defend these points. Though in the after math my dragoon is retiring so the question of what becomes of the Order does not affect my rp. As for the politcal changes... well that one will be interesting to be included into rp as to me from what I took is any noble, both minor and High House, can be elected to the House of Lords. Needless to say this going to be taken carefully and my character will not be an elected member as that might be a bit much imo.

[Wemrys]

Inquisitors

Do they even exist anymore? The Church's heavy-handed means to keeping Ishgard devout has been presumably abolished in the wake of the revelations of the MSQ, and again that new government thing probably isn't too keen on torturing people for being friends with their new allies.

 

If you speak with Cyr in Foundation after completing the MSQ and the current Manderville questline he states exactly this:

 

"It's begun, . Inquisitors are being released from their positions and told to seek employment elsewhere. 'Wasteful expenditures must be purged,' they say.

 

Just the thought of being cast out onto the streets sends a shiver up my spine. I mean, my skills are not exactly suited to other professions! I can't just up and become a bloody baker!"

[Telluride]

Dear Ishgard...

 

We've noticed that you got a dragon problem, and that you had it fer a long time.

 

We've noticed that your attempted solutions for said problem seem to involve praying a lot, training gifted people to jump really high with spears, and use some really big ballistas. Hey, those spear-wielders are ok, but jumping isn't flying, y'know. We're pretty big fans of those... dragonkillers, y' call 'em? That seems like a good idea. Didn't seem to us that you use the things anywhere near like you should, though, as if them workin' too well would make your nobles look like useless schlubs, and that dragons ain't too impressed by your prayer sessions. But, hey, then again, mebbe the gods were powerin' those shield tricks you had on the city... oh, those kinda tanked, finally, didn't they?

 

Mind if we recommend somethin' to ya?

 

See, we had a chance to check out that impressive capital of yours, and we saw that you lot had a guild full of people who had some good ideas that we kinda like, and wanted to learn from 'em, ideas that could turn your nation into something powerful enough to send the Garleans runnin' like scared kobolds back to their stupid lookin' forts and huddlin' up, hopin' you'd just go away. We kinda liked that. Then... we found out you all kinda look down on these perfectly clever engineers like they was some kinda crackpots.

 

Seems you're only missin' the knowhow of a bunch of people who know how artillery works.

 

You heard o' firesand, right? Y'ever see what a cannonball can do to a peiste? It's kinda brutal, lemme tell ya. And most o' those dragons ain' THAT agile.

 

So, tell ya what. When yer willin' to pull yer pointy-eared heads out yer arses, and come talk to us, we got some ideas fer trade an' exchange of know-how an' materials that'll make you pretty much immune to any leftover flyin' lizards what still might wanna test their luck. If'n you'd a listened to us sooner, they coulda called the place "Anyx Rubble" a while ago, 'ey?

 

Yours truly,

 

The Artillerists' Guild of Thanalan.

 

P.S. - We got a guy here what's figured out how to turn aether crystals into explodin' ordnance. Give us a contact, 'ey mates?

[Zelmanov]

My questions about post MSQ extend primarily to the blood curse that all ishgardians have. AKA Drink dragon's blood, go Aevis or Syricta. Now that Nidhogg has been "killed" and the war is supposedly over. Does the curse still remain?

 

What about Dragoons with their inner dragon? Does that dragon still stir? Is it still a threat capable of taking over those who possess it?

 

I need answers to these two because my current plot is highly tied to those aspects. Be kind of a bummer if all this buildup to possibly given in is saved by the inner dragon going "War's over? We cool now"

[111]

My questions about post MSQ extend primarily to the blood curse that all ishgardians have. AKA Drink dragon's blood, go Aevis or Syricta. Now that Nidhogg has been "killed" and the war is supposedly over. Does the curse still remain?

 

What about Dragoons with their inner dragon? Does that dragon still stir? Is it still a threat capable of taking over those who possess it?

 

I need answers to these two because my current plot is highly tied to those aspects. Be kind of a bummer if all this buildup to possibly given in is saved by the inner dragon going "War's over? We cool now"

Well, the way that Estinien acted afterwards leads me to believe that, yeah, they cool now.

 

If anything Dragoons would likely be more like how the Warrior of Light was when they had Hrae's eye, just a comforting boon, nothing sinister.

 

On a side note, my prediction is that Dragoons will get a pet in 4.0, and become more like XI Dragoons.