Getting People Engaged.

zaviire · January 2, 2017

So let's say you have a fairly large LS (or FC) on your hands. It's great, people are pretty chill OOC, but the focus of your group is supposed to be IC -- and even further, the IC focus of the group is supposed to be tailored toward dark-themed, more plot-based roleplay.

But all people ever want to do are tavern nights and social/slice of life RP. You plan a lot if stuff but very few members consistently show up, and when you do get a large turnout it's because you've employed aid from the sacred deities of Literal Bribery, offering gil prizes for, essentially, being lucky. Even that event turns out to be a miserable experience, and you're getting really tired of planning vapid social events for something that's not supposed to be socially-oriented, but rather something oriented around people networking IC, creating underground connections and taking jobs.

But all of your mercenaries, all your information brokers, roughly half of your "syndicate leaders," your transporters, your assassins, your thieves... All they wanna do is drink and party. Maybe the alcohol is occasionally illegal, but the style of RP that they bring to the table conflicts pretty heavily with what you wanted out of the LS when you started it. There's nothing inherently bad with socials... until it's all you're getting, when you expected a lot more, and it's just the same people over and over. The ones who aren't whacking themselves off over a glass of wine are dead silent and, more than likely, have been since day one -- both IC and OOC.

It's embarrassing, and if it makes you feel cheated as the leader, you can only imagine how some of your members must be feeling.

So, you toss a plotline out there. Not one too big -- a fairly open-ended arc that gives people the chance to strut their stuff since it's framed as a job. And... No one breathes a word to you about it; no questions about the structure or the systems to be used and certainly no expressions of interest (though maybe an unsolicited excuse about "well this character wouldn't do that, and this one would need a lot of convincing!"). But damn, people sure are intent on advertising their socials/tavern nights that aren't even run by a character who's even involved with the group, with little regard as to whether it's actually a good time or place for that kind of thing.

At this point it's clear that even if people are involved... They're not really engaged. There's a lot of people you just get radio static from, regardless of whether they're there IC or not. Nobody is really a go-getter except you and your officers.

So to round off this hypothetical (which if you read this far without figuring out it wasn't actually a hypothetical... Uh, it's not a hypothetical?) with some more pointed questions:

How do you go about getting people engaged, in general?
How do you go about getting people more involved with the story-based side of RP that you intended for a group from the beginning? Be it with planning stuff of their own or getting them involved with stuff that the leadership organizes?
How do you #StopTheSocials 2k17?

Part of me is concerned it's just that the storyline I have planned isn't terribly interesting, but something tells me it's more a matter of most people already being tuned out. Efforts to try and steer the group on my authority as the leader have yet to produce results, but that's mostly because I put them pretty much into effect yesterday; still, the fact that no one is willing to help step up to the plate and plan stuff besides me (and my officers, but they know what their responsibilities are...) is somewhat very worrying.

Part of me is additionally concerned that this just happens to be a pitfall of "crime-based" RP on Balmung, seeing as the culture of the server seems very much tailored more toward the exact sort of slice-of-life RP that I hate, so even people that write criminal characters more or less just use it as a background detail to keep their character from falling into the trap of being Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic Good because OH YEAH HE'S TOTALLY AN INFORMATION BROKER HE DOES TONS OF SUPER ILLEGAL STUFF ALL THE TIME GUYS. Or at least given the fact that it's impossible to get my group to do anything short of drink and party (when they do that)... It sure feels that way.

There's nothing wrong with social RP, of course, (of course even as I say that I roll my eyes and cringe) it's more a question of -- how do I get things going on the right track again, and get people involved with the kind of vision I had for the LS going into it? Get people engaged and planning stuff with others? Engaged and participating in things, even if it's just from the fringes to provide commentary?

And when all else fails, how do you go about starting to trim the fat?

Lilira Lira · January 2, 2017

Well you have to remember. Not all FCs are this way. sure some throw a lot of tavern nights and such but there's a reason: With Criminal RP you need lawful RP to keep up a convincing cover. Otherwise what's stopping the Adders knocking at your door?

I for one run a criminal FC, one which is masked as a tavern. but I like to think I have a good mix, I open up the tavern, invite people in, those who want criminal plots/jobs just use the specific code i laid out. so they get what they came for as well as the average patron who just wants to drink and be merry.

There is a lot of criminal RP on Balmung, and loooots of people with dark themes. Have faith, it is out there.

-Mistress mischief

Kilieit · January 2, 2017

So' date=' you toss a plotline out there. Not one too big -- a fairly open-ended arc that gives people the chance to strut their stuff since it's framed as a job. And... No one breathes a word to you about it; no questions about the structure or the systems to be used and certainly no expressions of interest (though maybe an unsolicited excuse about "well this character wouldn't do that, and this one would need a lot of convincing!").[/quote']

This sounds... really familiar to me. >< It sounds like we're having similar issues, although mine is less "they're doing socials all the time instead" and more just "I just can't get people to RSVP to stuff, like, ever, even if they're literally not doing anything else, and IDK what I'm doing wrong".

I'm gonna be watching this thread for advice, since personally I've been getting really demoralised about this lately... I'd rather take a proactive attitude to trying to solve the problem if I can, but I don't know where to start.

Thunderbolt300 · January 2, 2017

Hey man!

I know exactly what you're talking about here- in large part because I actually was in the Linkshell for a while but never felt like there was a good opportunity to get involved. I can, granted, only truly speak for myself, but I doubt I'm the only one either. So, here's my two gil feedback, as a former GM several times over:

Less is more. When any group gets above the 30, 40, or 50 member mark, it stops being interconnected and becomes a crowd. It becomes harder to target individual people and put a spotlight on them, and at the same time, makes it much more easy for people to blend into the background and remain unnoticed. Set an activity mandate and a max member count, and don't budge on it.
If you want the focus to be IC, do everything IC. Don't hold OOC meetings that can be held IC. Don't even use voice chat. Make IC the only way things are ever done- this 'tone' will propogate to everyone else by consequence. The GM is the heart of any Linkshell or FC, so their way of doing things will be mimed to a great degree by everyone else as the example to follow.
Headhunt. Don't let players blend into the background- with a smaller group, this is infinitely easier to accomplish, as you can headhunt with a crowd of 30- you can't headhunt with a crowd of 50 or 100. It's not a matter of devotion- it's just a simple matter of not having the time. Headhunting accomplishes the task of getting people involved, especially with major plotlines. Have specific roles that need to be filled for the plotline to progress, and headhunt to fill those roles. Double-book them in fact- you will see people drop the ball on occasion, so plan for that.

S'all I got! I hope this is of some value to you either way. If you have questions, feel free to tap me!

***Maril*** · January 2, 2017

It's probably one of the hardest things about organizing things for others. What some of it comes down to could be who you recruit, there's a lot of different variations of RP that people like more over another. So perhaps you need to focus your recruitment more on people who want story-driven content more-so than social RP.

I would also say that cutting out or trying to kill the social rp is probably not going to be the best idea - when you roleplay everyday, the social element can become a very big part of your character, with connections that needs to be maintained. Yes, there is such a thing as too much, but if you have nothing at all you'll end up with a group that isn't much like a group because no one has really connected with each other. Shifting the focus can be difficult if social stuff is genuinely what people want to do, you can't really force people to shift gear that way - but you may also want to look into if there could be other reasons driving people into social RP. For one, some plot things could very well be happening in the muddle of it, with your focus being on criminal RP that's something I could easily see happening. But secondly people just might not feel like it's easy enough to jump in with the plot-lines, might not be interested or can't see how their character would fit in. Oftentimes you have to be the one asking these questions because people wont always express their concerns/problems/woes. And - without wanting to sound bad here - a lot of people like to be the center of attention for at least a little while. Trying to appeal to this, but without making a whole plotline about just *one* person, can also help generate some interest.

Whichever it is and however it all pans out - I hope you'll end up seeing some improvements. The criminal scene is definitely a good one and it is great to see people being active within it

xelliexell · January 2, 2017

I know this struggle quite well, and it is real. I think almost every hard-working guild leader eventually hits an exasperated "Why do I even bother?" point, although it can manifest in a number of complex ways.

It's good that you're looking for a solution, though. I've hit a similar hurdle to the one you're describing, and have tried several trial-and-error things to inspire those around me to jump in both feet first. Maybe one of these things will work for you, although I can't say that all of these suggestions have made me terribly popular all of the time, haha.

- The hype starts with you. If you want people to feel legit excited about what you're throwing out there, I think it's important to be both informative and positive/excited about what's on the horizon. If you're passionate about your story and really believe it'll be a blast for everyone involved, make this known.

- Set aside a designated time for some "real talk." Scheduling a guild meeting has almost always been met with a positive reception for me. It's a great time to sit down with your players and talk about your up-and-coming plans in an organized fashion. It can also be used to solicit some great feedback on what players think about your ideas, or what sort of hooks they'd like to see in the guild's plot. I tend to just throw everyone in a Skype room for conducting my own meetings, since it creates a neat log for posting onto our guild site after the fact. (I also find typing/text to be a lot more laid back and relaxing than voice chat.)

- Create a minimum activity requirement. This may not be the most popular thing, but it's the only way I know to prune off those who are just using your LS/guild as a token membership card without any real drive toward participating in your community. Lay out your minimal activity expectations in a clear format, and then follow through with the subsequent removal if those conditions aren't met. People may be upset if they are removed, but if your guidelines are posted publicly and in a prominent place on your website, then it's kind of the individual's responsibility to adhere to them from there. Of course, if a major RL event happens that's beyond their control, I'm always happy to let them right back in as though they never left. Overall, my activity guidelines are very lenient, but I think they do an okay job of pruning the people who just don't have any interest in participating. It's honestly better to have a smaller and more focused group than a huge and scattered one.

- Nurture the most strongest babby birds. If you notice a member of your guild acting in an ideal way, reward them a little! It doesn't have to be a bribe or anything tangible. It can even be offering them an interesting role in the plot you're managing, or a public comment like "Hey, that was cool, man!" Then again, it could be a bribe, if you put it to good effect. For example, part of my guild's concept is that people can write "Dreams" that other characters can ICly experience. If a person leaves a positive comment on one of these writings, they're entered into a monthly raffle that offers some really boss character art should they win. (One of my officers runs this amenity, and she's lovely for it.)

- Everyone loves a log. If you plan to run a plot, definitely make sure you have a posted record of "the story thusfar" so that everyone can consider themselves reasonably informed before jumping in. (Tiny Edit: written IC summaries are way better received than just posting a straight up RP log clump.) Bonus points if you offer open avenues for engaging in said plot, such as a list of roles that can be filled or other hooks that anyone can sign up for.

You may already be doing some or all of these things, but these are what has helped my own group grow into what it is today.

Virella · January 2, 2017

Heya!

While I don't struggle with the issue you have, as I have a very other view on this all. I find plots and the like only really work with a small group of people.

In other RP community? Sure, bigger crowds could work, but the chat eating text, the chat in general being terrible to navigate, limited slots in party, the fact we're incapable of making alliances and all basically leaves a lot to be desired in regards of DMing stuff for people.

Personally? If you enjoy those social nights yourself, whether it is attending them or just running them for other people? Continue to do it! But do try to pick out people who are up for plot things. But keep it small you know? Unless you want to run bigger plots, you have to sacrifice more time and/or find more DMs to help you out, but I'm not sure if you want to do that either. Also just because this is what I prefer and works better for me on a smaller scale so far doesn't mean it will work for you, or if it's even the advice you're looking for.

Same as Kileit stated above, I will be watching this thread in case someone has better advice. I'd love to see more suggestions on running plots for bigger crowds because it is something I struggle with as well.

Also, make sure you don't get too frustrated and/or burned out by things. There's no shame in stepping back either for a little while!

ExAtomos · January 2, 2017

But all people ever want to do are tavern nights and social/slice of life RP.

How do you go about getting people engaged, in general?

How do you go about getting people more involved with the story-based side of RP that you intended for a group from the beginning? Be it with planning stuff of their own or getting them involved with stuff that the leadership organizes?

How do you #StopTheSocials 2k17?

Then that may be, in fact, all they want to do. Perhaps tap a reliable FC member to head up these type of social events that don't interest you personally. Let them have fun with it.

I've actually run into the wall of 'social' crime based rp myself recently with a new LS I've joined. My dude isn't just gonna go to a tavern and declare "teehee, I'm a bad guy" just to see who reaches out to me. That... makes zero sense. lol. In my opinion, this type of rp doesn't lend itself to large scale, social events. One on one or small group? Sure! But we both better have a good reason for speaking to each other about Nefarious Stuff tm.

I can't speak for you and your FC members specifically, but I like tossing out RP hooks either oocly (which sadly, usually don't get responses) or over an IC LS with something along the lines of... *Jo's voice sounds pained as she whispers frantically over the linkshell.* Is... is anyone there? I need help... please, gods... send help." /drama Often you'll get people springing from the woodwork for this.

If some folks in your FC just never interact with the rest and it's like a rock in your shoe, speak with them privately. See what they want from the FC and, if there is just a great wall of a mismatch, suggest they seek another group that may fit their rp style better.

Hope this helps! ^^

Syranelle Ironleaf · January 2, 2017

First off, let me congratulate you on the major undertaking of leading any kind of roleplay group, as well as trying to host RP events. Both are incredibly difficult jobs, moreso than people give it credit for, because people take a lot of what you do for granted. It's just what you're "supposed" to do as a leader and host. Most people don't understand all the planning and networking and creative energy that go into leading and hosting. They just bump along on the coat-tails of those who do. In my experience, even in the largest groups I've been in, it's always the same handful of people that do and coordinate things.

That said, it sounds like you need to have "The Talk" with your FC/Linkshell. If it's not living up to YOUR expectations for it, then it's time to put your foot down and start pruning the fluff. Keep the people that believe in your premise and actually engage and utilize the group for what it's for. Balmung is a huge place, there's no need to fret about keeping enough people or being a small FC. There's so much roleplay here that even small FCs can get things done, so long as its filled with people motivated to do them.

I think every roleplay group, be it FC or Linkshell, has its share of "free loaders" -- people who are in the group, but never (or rarely) participate in what's being offered and what's going on. I'm of a mind that these sorts of people will only be engaged and only join in when they feel like it. I offer more than enough opportunities for people to get involved with, covering a wide spectrum of themes: social, adventure, slice-of-life -- and people will only get involved with what interests them. Ultimately, host events that are fun for YOU to plan and coordinate because your enthusiasm will make or break the event.

Like Maia said, lead by example. Embody everything about your Linkshell that you want reflected in your members. If you want them to be active, be active; engage, talk more, advertise events more, post on your forums more. If you want them to be IC more often, then make sure you're doing that yourself. Make sure people KNOW that you are: "Hey, I'm going to be roleplaying at XYZ, anyone is welcome to come out!" -- "I'm free at the moment, if anyone wants to join in the latest Storyline (insert event/storyline URL here)." Your enthusiasm and initiative will rub off on others if they really want to be part of what you do. It will eventually separate the wheat from the chaff.

Leading and hosting can be a struggle at times, because you'll always feel like you put forth more effort than most. The major advice I can give for that is: don't let it bother you and don't let it discourage you. Have fun, enjoy it, and make the most of the people who DO engage with you.

As the old saying goes: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it." The same is true for roleplayers; you can create opportunities all day long, but you can't make them partake. So, just enjoy the time you spend in game, invest in the people who reciprocate that investment and let the rest move on as they will. You'll be much happier for it, I promise you. A game should, first and foremost, be fun to log in and play. Once it starts feeling like a struggle or a job, it stops being fun and starts being obligation. That includes roleplay as much as anything else.

zaviire · January 2, 2017

To everyone who's weighed in so far with advice: I really appreciate it! My thoughts are actually pretty similar to what's been tossed out so far: we have OOC meetings periodically in an effort to address issues and give people a chance to toss out ideas and opinions but it ends up mostly being me talking at people and others giving me radio static (outside of my officers).

But I'll definitely try sitting them down and having "The Talk" in text form and I'll definitely look toward cutting the fluff, though doing that will probably be difficult without a completely reliable way to gauge activity beyond manually keeping track of who all seems to be doing things with the group (which with an officer team of four including me to a total population of about 70, poses its own problems... But at the same time, no one seems active or reliable enough for me to expand the officer team, so I kinda have to work with what I have). Especially because I'd like to gauge activity more by participation with the group and less by "when did they log in last."

- Nurture the most strongest babby birds. If you notice a member of your guild acting in an ideal way, reward them a little! It doesn't have to be a bribe or anything tangible. It can even be offering them an interesting role in the plot you're managing, or a public comment like "Hey, that was cool, man!" Then again, it could be a bribe, if you put it to good effect. For example, part of my guild's concept is that people can write "Dreams" that other characters can ICly experience. If a person leaves a positive comment on one of these writings, they're entered into a monthly raffle that offers some really boss character art should they win. (One of my officers runs this amenity, and she's lovely for it.)

This is a really good idea that I'll definitely look toward trying to do, since the idea of punishing people (an alternative I've considered because that's the style I've seen in some other places) for not doing something-or-another doesn't jive with me that much. How I'll reward them is a matter I'll have to consider with my officer team, but providing incentives outside of bribes would probably help breathe a little bit of... Actual Life into the LS.

While I don't struggle with the issue you have, as I have a very other view on this all. I find plots and the like only really work with a small group of people.

In other RP community? Sure, bigger crowds could work, but the chat eating text, the chat in general being terrible to navigate, limited slots in party, the fact we're incapable of making alliances and all basically leaves a lot to be desired in regards of DMing stuff for people.

Personally? If you enjoy those social nights yourself, whether it is attending them or just running them for other people? Continue to do it! But do try to pick out people who are up for plot things. But keep it small you know? Unless you want to run bigger plots, you have to sacrifice more time and/or find more DMs to help you out, but I'm not sure if you want to do that either. Also just because this is what I prefer and works better for me on a smaller scale so far doesn't mean it will work for you, or if it's even the advice you're looking for.

Given the fact that I'll be a second-time(!) GM if I manage to get this plot off the ground, I definitely do feel like smaller groups are better and the absolute limit to the number of people directly involved in what's going on at any given time is probably going to be capped at 7, but there are multiple parts even within parts of the event planned because of how it's structured in order to give anyone who wants in a chance to get in and stuff.

I'd be definitely willing to dedicate more time to run big things though... but unfortunately, the problem lies in people simply not seeming interested in doing any big things. u_u;; This story is my first attempt at a plot so I'm kinda sticking to what I know and what's worked with a group I was much closer with. I would welcome it if people wanted to lend me a hand with running it too... But if people give me radio static when I ask who wants to participate, then it'd probably be like dead silence if I asked anyone to help out with GMing.

Then that may be, in fact, all they want to do. Perhaps tap a reliable FC member to head up these type of social events that don't interest you personally. Let them have fun with it.

I've actually run into the wall of 'social' crime based rp myself recently with a new LS I've joined. My dude isn't just gonna go to a tavern and declare "teehee, I'm a bad guy" just to see who reaches out to me. That... makes zero sense. lol. In my opinion, this type of rp doesn't lend itself to large scale, social events. One on one or small group? Sure! But we both better have a good reason for speaking to each other about Nefarious Stuff tm.

I can't speak for you and your FC members specifically, but I like tossing out RP hooks either oocly (which sadly, usually don't get responses) or over an IC LS with something along the lines of... *Jo's voice sounds pained as she whispers frantically over the linkshell.* Is... is anyone there? I need help... please, gods... send help." /drama Often you'll get people springing from the woodwork for this.

If some folks in your FC just never interact with the rest and it's like a rock in your shoe, speak with them privately. See what they want from the FC and, if there is just a great wall of a mismatch, suggest they seek another group that may fit their rp style better.

Hope this helps! ^^

I guess I should clarify that in my case it is actually an LS. I don't lead the FC I'm a member of (though I guess some of this advice would be helpful to me in that regard too because I'm an officer there). Actually, the LS I lead is probably the one you're referring to here... Trust me, as a leader, I'm really frustrated with the general atmosphere here because... Yeah. I intend to hand off social-planning responsibilities to people who actually like doing those things (not that I hate them; I just want something different for the group overall), but getting people to step up to the plate and do that is a whole 'nother can of worms. Maybe I'm just not trying hard enough...

But yes this helps! I'll probably start trying to toss some more IC hooks into the LS soon,and get my officers to do the same; the hooks that set up the combat test minievent were pretty good and seemed to stir up some interest in addition to introducing what could easily become an arc for the LS in general, so I'll see if I can get more of that in particular going...

Leading and hosting can be a struggle at times, because you'll always feel like you put forth more effort than most. The major advice I can give for that is: don't let it bother you and don't let it discourage you. Have fun, enjoy it, and make the most of the people who DO engage with you.

As the old saying goes: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it." The same is true for roleplayers; you can create opportunities all day long, but you can't make them partake. So, just enjoy the time you spend in game, invest in the people who reciprocate that investment and let the rest move on as they will. You'll be much happier for it, I promise you. A game should, first and foremost, be fun to log in and play. Once it starts feeling like a struggle or a job, it stops being fun and starts being obligation. That includes roleplay as much as anything else.

I'll do my best! o7 And yeah, that realization is more or less why I made the thread; I feel like I spend so much time leading the group around but then they don't really... Do a whole lot. I have a lot of fun playing still, so I guess that's a sign I haven't burnt myself out yet (I think actually enjoying the gears and cogs of making things run semi-smoothly helps with that) with all this.

ArmachiA · January 2, 2017

Not sure if my experience will help you but I throw up what worked for me. I run the stories in the Night Blades FC and they are very large affairs. We call each arc a "season" and they usually last about 4-6 months depending with about 4-5 months downtime in between. Usually any story has about 20ish people involved.

~ A team is important. While I'm the head, I actually have a team of volunteers who help me guide and run the story. They don't have any actual power with in the FC, they really want to make sure the story stays cohesive and someone is always on to answer questions and relay to me what's been moved ahead plot wise. On top of that, they can be your hype man for you. Make sure you get people you trust here, because if one person drops out it can really eff up everything.

~ Hype is kind of important. I personally don't like a lot of hype, because I think it creates too much expectation that's hard for a team of volunteers to really live up to, but I do see the usefulness in a little hype. For us, it's usually what we like to call "The Waiver". The Waiver is a thread on the forum that says "If you want to be a part of this storyline, you must agree to the Waiver because your character may be hurt. Sign here." This actually creates it's own buzz. "Oh a dangerous storyline?" "What's this about?"

~ Villains are really really important. Not henchman or randos, but actual villains with names and their own motivations. I actually noticed no one really cared in the story the FC was telling until the Villains started invading their space and forcing them to react. Then they wanted to jump in. Honestly, 90% of my GMing life is deciding what the villains are going to do, what their next move will be, what their backstory is, who their going to attack, etc etc. Get that team you trust to roll some villains and make sure you guys actually play them. People like seeing tangible conflict, if you just say there's some seedy person off screen they are less likely to care then if they SEE them.

~ Start small. The very first guild story had a total of 5 people interested. 5. And at the time we had around 25 people. We did it anyway and the small group had such a blast they then kept talking about how great it was in our downtime, which made like 15 people interested in the next one, then 30, then 40 (That got a little hard to handle). Make a great story for whatever audience you have and more will follow when they realize what they missed. There's probably 3 or 4 people in your FC who are interested in bigger, darker plots right now - make a story for them! Once they start talking about how cool it is or how interesting a certain villain is, or how they need to figure out something, it will pique other players interest.

~ Being a leader suuuccckkss. This one is something your going to have to get used to if you plan on continuing this route. It's... really hard to actually get RPers to move because they like their comfort zone and A LOT of them don't want any uncontrolled conflict because they're too afraid of what might happen to their characters (It doesn't matter how many times we say "A GM is not allowed to kill your character without your permission" we STILL get 10-15 "You were going to kill my character without my permission!" complaints per story). You have to earn a lot of trust with the playerbase, because people are very protective of their characters. Just keep attempting and don't get discouraged. Keep saying you won't permanently kill or maim characters, that it's all in good fun, and show them that it is. Eventually, the ones who are willing to engage and have fun will make themselves known.

Honestly, I could go one for pages and pages about being a GM in FFXIV. Since I've been doing it for 3 years I have... a lot of experience for better or for worse.

Aurou · January 3, 2017

Everyone here has given you wonderful advice thus far! Honestly there isn't too much more to add. The fact that you notice and are acknowledging that you might have a problem is also an amazing first step into setting things on a proper path.

I lead a plot driven FC of 20ish members, we've found that smaller groups are best if you want the story to be meaningful. We are undeniably a picky group (for better or for worse). I have two other leaders that have full access to the plotline and help shape and move the story forward for everyone. We try to adjust the path as things happen, but overall have a planned outline. It's always our goal to have as many people involved in the stories as possible since our size is pretty manageable.

Hype does wonders. You and your officers being excited is important. If you aren't excited, or don't show that you are, why would anyone else be? When we plan a major event we make a post about it on our forums, tack a message in our FC message thingy, sometimes we will drop small things into RP in the days leading to the event, and on the day of the event spam Discord so that everyone remembers. One of our leaders also makes nice little banners to pin to the messages, too. Time put into planning and advertising can really help.

Trimming the fluff would probably be a good thing. These people joined your LS for this certain story and type of RP, right? If they are no longer interested, they need to move along. No harm, no foul. The best thing that you can do to encourage RP and prevent from becoming a social or purely slice of life/tavern group is to keep like-minded people in the LS.

Do you keep a site for things? What about a Discord or Skype group? There isn't a day that goes by where we don't use Discord for chatting, RPing, planning, etc.

Does everyone get along OOC? A huge part of our recruitment criteria has to do with how well a potential member will get along with the rest of the crew. (again, this is extremely important because we are on the smaller side). People are more likely to jump in on events when they are invested in the cause, the characters involved, or simply to support the people running it. We also poke eachother on Discord all the time - 'Hey, does anyone want to do this or that?' 'I want to RP!' 'Shit's going down, who's with me?'

Sometimes being a leader is a thankless job. Keep lines of communication open with everyone. Have meetings (IC and OOC) with your group. Be open for change, and be ready to enforce rules if you need to. I personally recommend having 1 leader per 10-15 members. Always have someone around to answer questions, handle situations, etc. My leaders (I use this term loosely, the three of us are all on equal ground) and I talk about EVERYTHING. If there is a problem that one of us catches wind of, we bring it to leader chat and figure out how to best resolve the issue. Work together to figure out how to get over this RP dry-spell. The three of us collaborate and bounce ideas off of one another on our FC story and how to run each event. We offer to help with any events that our members want to run, as well.

There will be times where not everyone agrees. There will be times where members feel like you're ignoring them, and vice versa. Again. Communicate as much as possible. When (and you really should) you go to prune membership, give everyone advanced notice of your intentions. "In 30 days we will be cutting down on our numbers. People that don't RP will be removed. If you still want to be here, show us that you do!" Have some sort of 'active member' policy and keep it enforced. There can always be exceptions, ie 'RL always comes first, let us know if something comes up - we will put you on a special no-clean list'. Make your intentions known and clear, discuss them with your leaders and membership in an OOC meeting. Hold an IC one, too, if that's how you do things.

Really the best way to lead is to learn from the past. Try things out, and if they don't work change them just a little. Tweak things until you find what is just right for your group. Don't let yourself be too discouraged! Keep at it :moogle:

Tyndles · January 3, 2017

If the group isn't engaging, keep it short. One-off events. Like "help me smuggle this stuff, but thats it" When multiple people do repeat performances to these one off events, make them two parters. But people tend to like bar/slice of life stuff because they don''t have a schedule, they can do it when they feel like it, and if they flake whatever.

But shorter is generally better in my experience.

***Teadrinker*** · January 3, 2017

Some rpers like the more plot heavy stuff than others. This is just what I've come to accept.

There are things I have just stopped trying to include certain people on. It's waste of time and effort. They, as players, want slice of life RP despite their character's IC tradeskills falling into these specific plot roles. You need to realize that YOU, as a DM (Dungeon Master) cannot FORCE people to work with you or work into these roles. You will kill yourself.

I have HANDED people RP on silver platters and they just....stare at it before dropping it. Once I've isolated that a player is that kind of RPer I move along. I will not break my ass to loop everyone in if they're going to make me enter the damn Konami code every time just to get their participation. You wanna be there? Show up. If not then I'll write the plot and event to cater to a more closed group.

Caspar · January 3, 2017

I think communicating with the players with innocuous queries can help out with this. You know, just kinda casually talking about what movies you've enjoyed recently, what they've been reading, the other games everyone plays. By doing this you can gain a sense of what genre the players like and try to tailor an event to suit their tastes, or just understand what sort of hooks will grab their attention, such that they'll be more inclined to get invested.

In my experience though, by far the thing that stifles FC RP the most is people separating into couples and small groups and focusing their RP within private rooms. This can cause the players OOCly to become aloof through isolation, basically having no particular motivation to link their characters to the other members of the FC. This should in no way be taken as a statement of what happens constantly or regularly, only that it's what I've observed. You're not necessarily the problem with your FC just because you are really close to another player and prefer RPing with them over others. But group involvement really aids in creating a sense of cohesion between multiple people, and that is necessary to create a larger, more complex story line, I feel.

Lastly, the creation of an "inner FC" usually composed of officers and original members who keep the level of involvement of newer members to a "supporting character" level. I've seen this before and I can't agree with it. Keeping new members around a lower IC level of significance or proficiency will make them feel excluded. There won't be any incentive for a player to invest within a large story line if their significance within it is next to nothing. Also, and this is just semi-related, but have a strong level of communication between officers and the players. Sometimes players don't buy the story lines the officers are selling because there's a preexisting level of OOC mistrust going on there. In almost all cases I've seen, it's because the officers keep their decisions private and often don't connect well with the members. I remember being very nervous in my first FC because I never really understood the thoughts behind the decisions the officers made, so I had to take it on good faith that they were making the best choice when an event was cancelled or they booted someone without explanation. This in turn made me wary of how active a role I should be taking in their events; should I make myself more visible when I can't really trust the leadership?

I definitely don't always fully understand the whole "SoL" only crowd and really feel the urge to push some sort of more dramatic plot forward, either personally or in a group. By seeding my dialogue with allusions to prior events or hinting at future events, even my SoL surreptitiously pushes players to taking a bigger interest in my character's background, which is basically really bad news, lol. But I also try not to give away *too* much.

I guess I'm kinda stringing along people this way, and I feel bad that sometimes I'm not able to deliver on making a big blowout event comfortably due to my lack of experience. But I want to entertain and I've managed to do so with small groups of other players. With some practice under my belt and maybe aid from other players, I'm confident I could handle bigger scenes and finally move the plot forward to a degree that makes me feel satisfied. I do really want to run events, but I wonder if I'm capable of it yet.

Lydia Lightfoot · January 3, 2017

Something others haven't mentioned (or if they did, I missed it) which I feel is important is this:

A player who expects to receive far more than they are willing to give isn't worth effort.

That may sound harsh, but it plays into the concept of that the responsibility of providing entertainment and enjoyment doesn't fall solely on the shoulders of leaders, it falls on everyone involved. Unless the group has some sort of rule which forbids members from creating and running plots/events for the group (which I've seen, but never understood), the answer to a player who says they're bored is "What kind of event or plot would you like to run to alleviate your boredom?"

Okay, some players just feel they don't have the mind or energy to host something. Personally, I think that's cop-out nonsense most of the time, but there are some people who just genuinely lack the confidence to even make the attempt. For players like that, you have to watch whether or not they participate in what others are putting out there, because even someone who doesn't run anything but does show up and support the activities others provide is still being a valuable team player.

If a player neither hosts events nor routinely participates in them, cut them lose and move on. Don't even feel bad about it, don't second-guess it, your time and effort have value and your energy is finite. Don't bother with a 1:1 conversation to ask them why they aren't, and to try and psychology them... most roleplayers seem to favor placation and confrontation-avoidance, so you're likely to get a lot of praise and promises of support which end up moot (I've almost never seen this kind of thing end up resulting in any permanent change from the player - they may show up once or twice, but then go right back to how they were).

It's tough to lead. Sometimes you'll have whole swaths of people wander away at once, and usually for reasons which don't even make logical sense and hurt your feelings and confidence in the process. The hard truth is, most of us roleplay because we have terrible social skills. People who have good social skills have actual social lives rather than digital ones. There'll probably be a few people who will read that and get immediately angry, but hey, I'm not excluding myself. The lot of us, we're all strange hermits, each with our own cocktail of anxieties and neuroses, and successfully trying to get any of us to do anything useful together can be a bit like herding cats through a field of catnip. Any small amount of cooperative effort and results is almost miraculous if you think about it, so don't beat yourself up too badly if things seem tough. Just kinda the nature of the beast, I guess.

Gabineaux · January 3, 2017

I have an issue of not being able to log on without six people grabbing me by each one of my limbs and running in a different direction. Shit's overwhelming and I don't even lead the majority of our events. Or many at all anymore. BUT I DO lead a small RP FC/discord/linkshell, my opinions just for yooou.

-ECHOING THAT.. large scale events are difficult and everyone wants to be the center of attention. But only the 'officers' or 'leaders' get to have their time to shine. This is why people often couple up and do small itty bitty "slice of life" plots. Make small events so everyone feels important. Exclusive, detailed events make people really excited. I find people really enjoy IC dungeons, even if they're unsynced and you don't even complete the dungeon. Just the different setting is better than the usual 'world' setting where anyone can happen upon you. Make several events if the numbers are large so everyone gets a chance.. and that leads me to my next point.

-Share the burden, you don't always have to lead. Let other people make events, encourage them to make events. I mean since the last event was about their character, they get to lead the next one and OH MY GOD ARE YOU EVER EXCITED TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT. YOU'RE SO STOKED. (Well you should be, I usually am.) Share notes later on what happened. Share notes IC, make the information sharing an event. People absolutely love it when events aren't always about one character. Also, YOU CANNOT PRAISE THE PERSON WHO MADE THE EVENT ENOUGH. YES CAPS. CAPS. PRAISE. LOVE. SHOWER. AFFECTION. It's so much work you didn't want to do, and they did it! If you had fun, let them know. Remind them how much fun you had the next day, the next week, next month.

-No kidnapping Sasuke. He never wanted to be with you guys anyways, he's glad he's gone. If you get him back he's just going to get kidnapped again next week. Don't bother. Let him go. He'll come back when he's ready. Seriously kidnapping RP in general is ALWAYS A SHITSHOW unless it's an npc, and even then it's usually a shitshow. I have no fucking idea what it is with 'dark RP' and kidnapping but it seems to be the same slew of character types being kidnapped all the goddamn time, every time. It's especially bad if it's a PvP kidnapping and not a PvNPC kidnapping. Two RP groups stretching a character like a goddamn stretch armstrong is boring and we've all RP'd this exact same plot at least 30 times in our time RPing on mmos. We're sick of it. Even if it's 'well done' and the 'outcome' is already thought of ahead of time, 9/10 of us are rolling our eyes and holding our heads whimpering, WHY?

-Join other linkshells and be part of other events, don't lead everything all the time. Even if you don't like their events, you can see EXACTLY what you don't like and what people DO like. There ARE secret societies of RPers out there who aren't just sitting in taverns.

-Not everyone gets to be the strongest. Not everyone gets to be the smartest. Not everyone gets to be the best at everything, period. I find the biggest difficulty in adding more people to my group, is that we find new characters who happen to be the absolute best at everything and therefore contribute.. not much. These type of characters are just as bad as the socialite-only types and make what could otherwise be an amazing plot, boring and predictable. They can't lose. They can't be hurt. They don't want to /roll. There is no conflict, even if there is, because they always win. I have NEVER been able to succeed with telling someone their character is this way.

I honestly don't really believe that there's socialite only RPers, just RPers who are unwilling to do certain plots because they just don't fit for them IC or OOC.. so they pass on it. I have never ever met a tavern-ONLY character. Even the character(s) I ONLY see in the Quicksand often have neat adventure stories to share with my character. Appealing to people is difficult and the most important thing is your fun-per-second. Even if the character isn't a fighter, maybe the character's just a chubby potion making nerd and they need some extra special herbs that grow in a rare place and they can't get there on their own? Are they gonna sit in a tavern and magically buy npc herbs? Or would they rather go on an epic adventure if the opportunity presents itself? Usually they take the epic adventure, if they get the chance. Even a bartender character who's retired will step up and go out if there's a good reason to do it. SO not only have events got to appeal to other people's fun-per-second, they also have to make logical sense. The more people you add, the more complicated it gets.

:dazed: Hope I helped a little, even if ...some people might actually LIKE kidnapping RP.

ArmachiA · January 3, 2017

We actually banned kidnapping in our overarching plots because so many people wanted to be kidnapped and it was getting exhausting . We don't get a say when people do their own personal stories or one-offs so it still happens quite a bit.

On "Stories shouldn't revolve around one person". If you CAN, you should make a story that doesn't really have a main character at all. Nothing from anyone's backstory (Unless it's a shared backstory with more people involved). You can have people who can be integral at the START to get it off the ground (Then let the story be free to go toward whoever grabs for it) but none of them should be the single focus of the plotline. I know this can't be avoided all the time (Hell, we're guilty of this right now) but it's good to START with a more neutral plot line that anyone can jump into without having to know . Once trust is established, you can absolutely branch off into more personal storylines.

On "One-offs are better". I think that really depends on the RPer. There are a lot of people in my guild who really like long, overarching plots and there are some who don't really have time for that and can't participate, and some even still who don't like keeping track of the madness and just wanna punch some baddies sometimes. If you're looking to do the first thing, I suggest actually doing BOTH. It's actually really easy to put one-off plots within your overarcing storyline. Lets say your bad guy uh... We'll call him Bob, is threatening to do SOMETHING with some ancient artifact that may hurt Eorzea! But you don't know much on what that artifact is! What do you do? A one-off dungeon run into the great Library to look for info may be the best bet OR if you have more time - a one-off roll20 into some ancient ruins to find more information. Then you find more info on how to stop Bob, but alas you don't have the right pieces to make thing you need! And the pieces are illegal and hard to find in Eorzea! You can then do a one-off about smuggling the pieces in.

These are all things that would work separately ("Finding info on artifacts" "Smuggle in goods") without a plot, so people without a lot of time or inclination CAN participate, but they also circle back to your overarcing plotline for those more deeply involved. These aren't events you have to run either, if you have some active members they may just volunteer to run it and ask you what they would find when they do. A lot of one-offs my guild does are run by other people who want to help find answers... though you may not get to many people volunteering at the start.

ExAtomos · January 5, 2017

Then that may be, in fact, all they want to do. Perhaps tap a reliable FC member to head up these type of social events that don't interest you personally. Let them have fun with it.

I've actually run into the wall of 'social' crime based rp myself recently with a new LS I've joined. My dude isn't just gonna go to a tavern and declare "teehee, I'm a bad guy" just to see who reaches out to me. That... makes zero sense. lol. In my opinion, this type of rp doesn't lend itself to large scale, social events. One on one or small group? Sure! But we both better have a good reason for speaking to each other about Nefarious Stuff tm.

I can't speak for you and your FC members specifically, but I like tossing out RP hooks either oocly (which sadly, usually don't get responses) or over an IC LS with something along the lines of... *Jo's voice sounds pained as she whispers frantically over the linkshell.* Is... is anyone there? I need help... please, gods... send help." /drama Often you'll get people springing from the woodwork for this.

If some folks in your FC just never interact with the rest and it's like a rock in your shoe, speak with them privately. See what they want from the FC and, if there is just a great wall of a mismatch, suggest they seek another group that may fit their rp style better.

Hope this helps! ^^

I guess I should clarify that in my case it is actually an LS. I don't lead the FC I'm a member of (though I guess some of this advice would be helpful to me in that regard too because I'm an officer there). Actually, the LS I lead is probably the one you're referring to here... Trust me, as a leader, I'm really frustrated with the general atmosphere here because... Yeah. I intend to hand off social-planning responsibilities to people who actually like doing those things (not that I hate them; I just want something different for the group overall), but getting people to step up to the plate and do that is a whole 'nother can of worms. Maybe I'm just not trying hard enough...

But yes this helps! I'll probably start trying to toss some more IC hooks into the LS soon,and get my officers to do the same; the hooks that set up the combat test minievent were pretty good and seemed to stir up some interest in addition to introducing what could easily become an arc for the LS in general, so I'll see if I can get more of that in particular going...

Yes... SOMEHOW I missed your sig completely. lol

Ok, so from the inside (albeit only very recently)... I'm struggling to find a way in. I can't yet tell what direction y'all are steering the boat, especially since lately there have been a couple "we're doing it this way now" posts. You also have... quite the mixed bag of members. I certainly appreciate your struggle to try and change the RP style of the LS from lore-breaking silliness to actually dark RP with substance while still keeping members that you've had the whole time.

I've spent years now leading a large FC and then a large LS here and have tried to cat-herd RPers who all have different philosophies of how to go about it and what style of RP they like. I've met maybe a dozen who actually mesh well enough with my way of RPing that it's as easy as breathing when we hang out. The rest... it's the gamut between feeling like I'm pulling teeth to make this conversation happen to just sheer indifference towards the plot I offer. (And that's okay!)(I mean, it sucks. lol. But I understand why. )

I'm actually feeling a bit of the with the LS recently. You have put so much work into these upcoming plots and I was really impressed with the google doc you created. But frankly, this structured, planned style of RP isn't for me. As an aside, back on my old JP server, we had two hardcore rpers and a few interested in the concept in my FC. Unfortunately, me and the other rper had vastly different styles of going about it. He preferred the structured sort with a definite beginning and end, pulled in specific tasks that exist in game (and we had to do them), and created these beautiful websites to go along with it. There was little chance for character development. I wanted a more natural, 'met by chance', 'let the plot happen as we talk' style of rp interaction. Most importantly in this case, as soon as I see "we are using X roll/character sheet system", I stop reading and move on. I would expect folks who prefer structure to feel the same about my more fluid way of setting up scenes.

I've done what I can in the LS chat itself. My character is a fence, caravan guard and sometimes raider (trying to retire from that and settle down) and I've oocly stated as much. If no one needs ill-gotten merchandise taken off their hands or some shipment needs to go 'missing', then there's not much I can do to get involved. I will keep trying though (cause I'm stubborn that way) and will find an 'in' at some point. (Hell, I've even got plots ready to go about treasure hunters finding some sort of artifact they really shouldn't have unearthed, what they should do now that they have it, and basically chew on my pc monitor thinking about all the horrible things that could happen. )

This does make me wonder though... in amongst the dozen Discord channels y'all have, do you have a space for members to give a brief run down of their character(s) so we can potentially find reasons to meet each other?

eta now that I've quit being lazy and read all the comments (including the above which made me laugh since I have an 'evil artifact' plot in the wings. ):

Some things I've learned:

I think most players want you to be Netflix. They don't want to be an active participant in a plot, much less a proactive one. They want to WATCH the damn plot unfold. They just want everything handed to them. And when you finally give up the IC nudges and ask them OOCly what their character is doing; they respond with "Oh, I'm supposed to tell you?"
Piggy backing off that... Annoyingly, my most successful plots have centered around my character(s) just due to the fact that I can keep the story moving instead of logging in and praying that others will contribute to a group RP plot so that it keeps going.
Some folks just ain't gonna like the plot. ; ; And none of you may know this until things get rolling.
There are a lot of RP styles between pure SoL and structured events. I vastly prefer nuanced dark themes and, while my RP appears to be more casual like SoL encounters, there's a heap of potential plots that I pull from to toss into the conversations with my RP partners. The story will unfold as we continue to interact. If they move on or show little interest, I pocket the idea right back and will adjust it or use it in another way some other time. Flexibility is key.

Aegir · January 5, 2017

My general advice is to make ooc announcements and reminders to people constantly. This is really helpful to RPers who don't hang out at the FC house or have just logged on. A quick: ((Hey, we're doing the DRAGON EXPLODING event at )) ((everyone's RPing at the Gold Saucer if you're interested)) when someone logs on can really hook people in who might not know an event is going on at the moment or if they're invited to join in on it.

Melkire · January 5, 2017

...do you have a space for members to give a brief run down of their character(s) so we can potentially find reasons to meet each other?

As an outsider looking in, and as someone who's been in these sort of groups before (be they themed FC's or themed LS's), I can tell you that "I don't know who these other characters are and what they could do for my character" is one of the most significant potential hurdles that members can have in reaching out to each other for RP.

Say you have a thief and a fence. If the thief doesn't advertise over open channels that they've stolen some rare gems and are now looking to get rid of them for a tidy sum of gil (advertising is a risky proposition to begin with, could get stung) and the fence doesn't advertise that they're a point of contact within the black market who could easily manage such a transaction (again, risky proposition), then that face-to-face and that business deal are not likely to happen.

This goes for OoC as much as it does for IC. As the player of a thief character, I might not think to turn to [insert Name Here] Linkshell as somewhere to trade goods for coin if I'm not OoCly aware that [insert Name Here] has a number of fences among its pearl-holders.

tl;dr: seconding this question from ExAtomos.

zaviire · January 6, 2017

[snip]

-Share the burden, you don't always have to lead. Let other people make events, encourage them to make events. I mean since the last event was about their character, they get to lead the next one and OH MY GOD ARE YOU EVER EXCITED TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT. YOU'RE SO STOKED. (Well you should be, I usually am.) Share notes later on what happened. Share notes IC, make the information sharing an event. People absolutely love it when events aren't always about one character. Also, YOU CANNOT PRAISE THE PERSON WHO MADE THE EVENT ENOUGH. YES CAPS. CAPS. PRAISE. LOVE. SHOWER. AFFECTION. It's so much work you didn't want to do, and they did it! If you had fun, let them know. Remind them how much fun you had the next day, the next week, next month.

[snip]

Not gonna lie I get super excited for others' events -- usually more excited for theirs than my own when it comes to stories... Since when I write stories I need to overwork myself by accounting for everything. I'm not sure how to exactly go about encouraging people to make events though sadly beyond constantly plugging the ones they advertise in our events and announcements channel and encouraging them practically every other breath to feel absolutely free to get stuff going for themselves or even just try to suck the LS in general into whatever they happen to be doing. It's difficult to get stoked and sing praises about people who plan their own things or even help me plan things when I'm only ever the one involved in planning, unfortunately...

Aside: I'll admit I laughed pretty hard at the kidnapping Sasuke thing. I'm not a huge fan of kidnapping RP; I'm not sure what the fascination is and I guess it could work in smaller plots but most of what I heard about it just locks a character in a damsel in distress position... Which needless to say is kind of boring and overused imo. Tropes Are Not Bad and all that, but when it comes to writing... Eh. I've participated in one event with my FC where it worked, but that was mostly because the 'kidnapping' happened as a result of our failure to win a combat instance (and it was NPCvP) and carried weight because of that. And the character died as a result, so I guess it doesn't really qualify because it wasn't and couldn't have ended up as a chronic thing.

On "Stories shouldn't revolve around one person". If you CAN, you should make a story that doesn't really have a main character at all. Nothing from anyone's backstory (Unless it's a shared backstory with more people involved). You can have people who can be integral at the START to get it off the ground (Then let the story be free to go toward whoever grabs for it) but none of them should be the single focus of the plotline. I know this can't be avoided all the time (Hell, we're guilty of this right now) but it's good to START with a more neutral plot line that anyone can jump into without having to know . Once trust is established, you can absolutely branch off into more personal storylines.

On "One-offs are better". I think that really depends on the RPer. There are a lot of people in my guild who really like long, overarching plots and there are some who don't really have time for that and can't participate, and some even still who don't like keeping track of the madness and just wanna punch some baddies sometimes. If you're looking to do the first thing, I suggest actually doing BOTH. It's actually really easy to put one-off plots within your overarcing storyline. Lets say your bad guy uh... We'll call him Bob, is threatening to do SOMETHING with some ancient artifact that may hurt Eorzea! But you don't know much on what that artifact is! What do you do? A one-off dungeon run into the great Library to look for info may be the best bet OR if you have more time - a one-off roll20 into some ancient ruins to find more information. Then you find more info on how to stop Bob, but alas you don't have the right pieces to make thing you need! And the pieces are illegal and hard to find in Eorzea! You can then do a one-off about smuggling the pieces in.

These are all things that would work separately ("Finding info on artifacts" "Smuggle in goods") without a plot, so people without a lot of time or inclination CAN participate, but they also circle back to your overarcing plotline for those more deeply involved. These aren't events you have to run either, if you have some active members they may just volunteer to run it and ask you what they would find when they do. A lot of one-offs my guild does are run by other people who want to help find answers... though you may not get to many people volunteering at the start.

Yep, that first point is basically my philosophy when it regards storylines. Because I have a bit of trouble getting invested in plots that aren't tied to any characters at all (a villain that's just like, a giant space flea from nowhere... Is difficult for me to be invested in so I tend not to write them; when other people write them there's other ways for me to get into the story so I don't concern myself with the antagonist much until I'm in the moment) I tend to use my characters as instigators, but quickly send the story shooting off into a lot of other branching directions, so even if my characters kick-start the story they don't stay in the limelight for very long. I've only GM'd a total of one storyline so far on a totally different character and wit ha totally different cast, with an upcoming second, but even in terms of just general RP with my partners that hardly even constitute events, I prefer to play supporting/instigating roles and let others bask in the limelight.

Doing one-off events that build toward the greater story is definitely something I'm going to try, though, because it gives more people the chance to get involved in the story and I can only handle so many people at a time because I'm a beginner at best and a know-nothing at worst but I still want to work anyone who's interested in being in... Well, in, and i think it's important to at least try to be inclusive of people unless they just like, totally won't work with you at all, like they're expressing interest OOC in a very general way but refuse or neglect to get to the more pointed stuff that would help to... Solve whatever issue they have, or the issue happens to have to do with the structure or setting of the story and it's like... I'm sorry there's... There's only so much I can do without re-planning the scenario entirely... (Which I don't honestly even plan that much; mostly I just plan the beginnings and let people go from there, but beginnings usually serve to set the stage, so...)

Yes... SOMEHOW I missed your sig completely. lol

Ok, so from the inside (albeit only very recently)... I'm struggling to find a way in. I can't yet tell what direction y'all are steering the boat, especially since lately there have been a couple "we're doing it this way now" posts. You also have... quite the mixed bag of members. I certainly appreciate your struggle to try and change the RP style of the LS from lore-breaking silliness to actually dark RP with substance while still keeping members that you've had the whole time.

[snip]

I'm actually feeling a bit of the with the LS recently. You have put so much work into these upcoming plots and I was really impressed with the google doc you created. But frankly, this structured, planned style of RP isn't for me. As an aside, back on my old JP server, we had two hardcore rpers and a few interested in the concept in my FC. Unfortunately, me and the other rper had vastly different styles of going about it. He preferred the structured sort with a definite beginning and end, pulled in specific tasks that exist in game (and we had to do them), and created these beautiful websites to go along with it. There was little chance for character development. I wanted a more natural, 'met by chance', 'let the plot happen as we talk' style of rp interaction. Most importantly in this case, as soon as I see "we are using X roll/character sheet system", I stop reading and move on. I would expect folks who prefer structure to feel the same about my more fluid way of setting up scenes.

[snip]

This does make me wonder though... in amongst the dozen Discord channels y'all have, do you have a space for members to give a brief run down of their character(s) so we can potentially find reasons to meet each other?

eta now that I've quit being lazy and read all the comments (including the above which made me laugh since I have an 'evil artifact' plot in the wings. ):

Some things I've learned:

I think most players want you to be Netflix. They don't want to be an active participant in a plot, much less a proactive one. They want to WATCH the damn plot unfold. They just want everything handed to them. And when you finally give up the IC nudges and ask them OOCly what their character is doing; they respond with "Oh, I'm supposed to tell you?"

Piggy backing off that... Annoyingly, my most successful plots have centered around my character(s) just due to the fact that I can keep the story moving instead of logging in and praying that others will contribute to a group RP plot so that it keeps going.

Some folks just ain't gonna like the plot. ; ; And none of you may know this until things get rolling.

There are a lot of RP styles between pure SoL and structured events. I vastly prefer nuanced dark themes and, while my RP appears to be more casual like SoL encounters, there's a heap of potential plots that I pull from to toss into the conversations with my RP partners. The story will unfold as we continue to interact. If they move on or show little interest, I pocket the idea right back and will adjust it or use it in another way some other time. Flexibility is key.

Hahah, it happens! I should probably think about sprucing up my sig now that I'm trying to actively participate in forums and stuff but... Meh.

Ahah, seems our styles are pretty opposite then. While I definitely don't enjoy plots that are completely and totally planned out from start to finish, I really really hate trying to make anything meaningful out of the little social interactions and characters more or less just getting to know each other; most of the time it feels more like trying to pull teeth than writing a story that would ever have a logical conclusion. So I tend to plan beginnings to try and hook people in and give the story event a general direction and turn people loose. It's mostly because of preference; I find it a lot easier to get invested in plotlines when my ideas are laid out in a semi-logical order and the 'background lore'/justification for the event happening is established, because participating in others' events I know I've had trouble getting invested specifically because I went in blind and ended up never really getting a reason for my character to be invested in the story IC or a reason for me to care OOC... so I dropped it and retconned it, because my character ended up never finding a reason to be there and I don't like having a lot of fluff lining my stories.

We didn't used to have a channel for that because it doesn't seem like something most people are totally interested in; most of the applications we get don't link to a tumblr or RPC page and they don't tend to talk about it a whole lot so I assume that's because people don't want any information about what their character does to be public for whatever reason even if it would help OOC with figuring out how characters fit into the grand scheme, just as a general thing. But I made one anyway just now because it seems like a good idea because being able to easily refer back to character information is important!

But yeah, I'm definitely feeling a little bit like Netflix given that even though the upcoming story is the only one I've gone out of my way to plan... The various socials we've held have borne no fruit with regards to stories or connections, even when one of the ones long before the Holiday season began was framed as a chance to basically sell your skills and get jobs out of the network because... IC, that's what it's for. the nature of the network isn't strictly insider info or anything. (Maybe 5 people showed up outside of myself, despite scheduling it about two to three weeks in advance. A tavern night held by one of our members later that same month rounded up about 20 of our members in the same room. Gee, I wonder where their priorities are...)

Aside: I'd debate that we've ever broken lore to a major degree as a group; the main issue in my opinion lies in social RP since in my experience social RP has hardly done anything to further a plot or make something happen. It probably goes better for other people in general but all it's really gotten for me is naptime, screwed up character arcs, and talking about the weather... Mostly the latter, especially when it comes to the social events I've tried my best to organize. Events which make me feel as if people have not read up on the lore of the LS at all, which is kind of saddening.

Verad · January 6, 2017

How do you go about getting people engaged, in general?

How do you go about getting people more involved with the story-based side of RP that you intended for a group from the beginning? Be it with planning stuff of their own or getting them involved with stuff that the leadership organizes?

How do you #StopTheSocials 2k17?

I provide this advice with the following caveats:

I engage people through a linkshell rather than an FC, so ensuring that all members are engaged is not 100% necessary.
I use a lot of dice, so some of the advice I have would be "use an interesting dice system that lets people feel like their characters are contributing in unique ways and still allows for consequences." If your first reaction to the word "dice" was an urge to take my lunch money, you can disregard that.

Setting those aside, I tend to engage people by making multiple small events in which they can participate that gradually build up to a larger storyline. By "small," I mean groups of about 3 to 6, not including myself as DM. I try to avoid rescheduling these events when possible. People show up or don't. This has the benefit of ensuring that players show up based on when they can, not solely based on who they know will also be in the event, and pushes together people who would otherwise be unfamiliar with each other.

I also make sure there is some sort of tangible consequence for these events. Part of why I emphasize a system above is that this can be difficult to measure in freeform RP. If they screw an event up - and they should completely be able to do so - you will need to make it clear that action mattered and had some consequence on the FC that will then need to be resolved.

Outside of these events, I do not care what the characters do in their offtime. They can slice-of-life it up all they like. They can be involved in stuff completely unrelated to what I am doing. As far as I am concerned, if they are showing up to some events and participating, they are engaged enough.

Continuing to do all of the above has generally worked out for me.

Oyuu · January 6, 2017

We didn't used to have a channel for that because it doesn't seem like something most people are totally interested in; most of the applications we get don't link to a tumblr or RPC page and they don't tend to talk about it a whole lot so I assume that's because people don't want any information about what their character does to be public for whatever reason even if it would help OOC with figuring out how characters fit into the grand scheme, just as a general thing. But I made one anyway just now because it seems like a good idea because being able to easily refer back to character information is important!

But yeah, I'm definitely feeling a little bit like Netflix given that even though the upcoming story is the only one I've gone out of my way to plan... The various socials we've held have borne no fruit with regards to stories or connections, even when one of the ones long before the Holiday season began was framed as a chance to basically sell your skills and get jobs out of the network because... IC, that's what it's for. the nature of the network isn't strictly insider info or anything. (Maybe 5 people showed up outside of myself, despite scheduling it about two to three weeks in advance. A tavern night held by one of our members later that same month rounded up about 20 of our members in the same room. Gee, I wonder where their priorities are...)

Speaking as someone who runs quite a 'picky' linkshell and runs RP events and plots like I assume you're wanting to do, I really recommend reading up on the characters applying to the linkshell. Not to reject them if they're lore-breaking or anything, but having an idea of who is actually in your linkshell, what their character can do and what they are interested can really help in making an interesting and captivating plot for your members. For example, OoO has quite a few interested in void-hunting, so that's quite a common occurrence and we always have a full group of about 8 to 12 people showing for those sorts of things. You can also see how they write, how invested they are in getting that RP or if they're going to be another face in the crowd that only like sitting in taverns (of course nothing wrong with that, but your issue is that they're not using your linkshell as intended).

I just wanted to say, as a DM, you really don't want 20 people showing up to your plot-driven events. :V It can get sooo messy. Just trying to manage more than two can be troublesome, and in every FC/event I've been in, I feel that six to ten members mark showing up is very healthy. If you're going larger, you're going to need a second DM to keep up, especially if you're not very experienced. Not everyone can turn up to the events for whatever reason, and especially in a linkshell, they're not obligated to turn up either. They have priorities elsewhere, whether it's their friends or their FC. The linkshell's goal is just to provide a supplement criminal-based RP, no?

However, it's really hard not to envy the successes of public events and the turn-out for those, but the amount of effort from the organisers and the RPers are quite different compared to say, running a story plot that arcs over three different events. You set a date, advertise like hell and then hire a few bar staff and boom, done and you just monitor the tavern to make sure no one's causing drama. Plots take a lot of planning, the combat takes a lot of planning and even with all that, your members will throw a spanner in the works either IC or OOC or both. "Hey can my character do this?" or "Ah, I can't make Monday despite everyone else being able to, can you change it?" Different RPers will value these things differently, as others here have said. I prefer plot-driven RP but I can appreciate sitting down and having a drink and talking about my dark past in a random bar, too.

Just remember, social RP and plot RP are two different things so trying to compare them is a bit... yeah. I feel like... a large, engaging group = good social RP event, players walking away going "man, that was fun, my character got beat up/learned shit/earned gil, let's do that again" = a good plot event. Different rewards for different types of investment. As a fellow linkshell leader to another, it's really hard. Really hard, but worth it in the end when someone turns around to you and thanks you for the roleplay and starts turning up every week. The small victories are important. This got way too long, sorry. >.<

ExAtomos · January 6, 2017

But yeah, I'm definitely feeling a little bit like Netflix given that even though the upcoming story is the only one I've gone out of my way to plan... The various socials we've held have borne no fruit with regards to stories or connections, even when one of the ones long before the Holiday season began was framed as a chance to basically sell your skills and get jobs out of the network because... IC, that's what it's for. the nature of the network isn't strictly insider info or anything. (Maybe 5 people showed up outside of myself, despite scheduling it about two to three weeks in advance. A tavern night held by one of our members later that same month rounded up about 20 of our members in the same room. Gee, I wonder where their priorities are...)

Aside: I'd debate that we've ever broken lore to a major degree as a group; the main issue in my opinion lies in social RP since in my experience social RP has hardly done anything to further a plot or make something happen. It probably goes better for other people in general but all it's really gotten for me is naptime, screwed up character arcs, and talking about the weather... Mostly the latter, especially when it comes to the social events I've tried my best to organize. Events which make me feel as if people have not read up on the lore of the LS at all, which is kind of saddening.

I'mma give it some thought (and also go back and read the group's lore). I love helping with these situations, so hopefully I can help find some possible solutions. ^^

To add, here's an example of how plots roll out in casual RP (or really, how I do em.):

Brinn was out on a date yesterday evening in Costa. Things were wrapping up for the scene and I knew I needed some sort of transition rather than just an awkward, "I'll be going then." "Okay, bye."

T: "So you'll be returning to Ul'dah, then?"

B: "Yeah, meetin' a potential renter late tonight. I'm not sure about this guy though. Can't get a bead on him."

T laughs. "Hope it's not an axe murderer."

B grins. "Now, as long as I /know/ I'm dealin' with an axe murderer, we're good. But this guy..." He shakes his head. "He makes me feel uneasy, an' I tend to trust my feelin's on this. But I can't point to any particular reason /not/ to rent him an office. An' too, it's our business to not look too hard into other's business. I mean, they'll be lookin' into our history an' know we'll be checkin' theirs, but we're not obvious about it. But this guy is a blank. Can't find out anythin' about him."

T: "I know some people in Ul'dah that can ask around without drawing attention to themselves."

The evening continues and Brinn promises to keep her up to date on what transpires.

An hour before, this plot didn't exist. Now I've got some, I dunno... mafia type? void mage? actually just an axe murderer? on my hands (all three? ) and I have a new friend who has incidentally offered to join into the plot by helping with intrigue/intelligence. As I've done with these in the past, this can evolve into something that includes a number of other players. May wind it's way into some group or solo combat scenes. And along the way is a shit ton of character development.

The important part of this scene though was that my rp partner actually communicated back, asking questions and offering her own ideas. I've tried similar scenes with others, trying to get something rolling, and they just basically sit there and grunt at me. I mean, I get that they're Edgy Evilguy and only speak Brooding, but I... can't work with that. ; u ; I don't care if their character seems cool on paper or that they are in an LS made for thematic RP that we're both in; I'll move on. It's just tough when it seem 8/10 people I meet respond this way. >< (Had someone in a scene once spend most of the time rolling their eyes IC and just responding to prompts without emotion cause they are "just too cool". I like them as a person, but I won't go out of my way to rp with them again. lol.) That's okay though! There are still some who mesh well with my style and I treasure them. I'm here to have fun too, even as a DM of sorts, and trying to force people to play along isn't fun.

Getting People Engaged.

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