How is my name not Lore Abiding? I'm tired of being told it isn't.

[Mother]

My character's name is Tamamo-no Mae, if only because I couldn't make it proper. I don't understand. I've had this name since the VERY DAY dashes in names dropped. It was fine then, and Doman RP LS's tell me its still fine. So, how is this a problem? She's referred to as Tamamo-no-Mae as her merchant name. Nothing about Tamamo existed before stormblood and now im called out for ripping it form her. I made her form Fate extra wtf.

 

To add to this, its just her display name. Her Merchant name is Tamamo-no-Mae, her actual name is just Tamamo, no family na/r in the thrme.

 

 

>> ???: ;w;

??? >> what

>> ???: and my name is too canon

>> ???: ;_;

>> ???: ;w;

??? >> it isn't

>> ???: yeah it is.

>> ???: Tamamo Mae

>> ???: ._.

>> ???: Shes an Auri ._.

??? >> Nupe :<

>> ???: how

>> ???: literally how

>> ???: Frankly, the name is japanese

>> ???: ._. So being told its not is pissing me off

>> ???: Hell theres even an Au Ra NPV with the name now

>> ???: and you wanna keep bullshitting me and telling me its not?

>> ???: ._.

>> ???: ._. cant even tell me

??? >> I'm playing D&D, chill your butt D:

>> ???: amamo-no-Mae (玉藻前, 玉藻の前, also 玉藻御前

??? >> It's not because it's the name of a spirit not a normal name >~>;

>> ???: Tamamo is a normal name.

>> ???: If she goes by Tamamo, who cares.

>> ???: Its a display name because I wanted it.

>> ???: Tamamo also means seaweed so

>> ???: and it IS a name

>> ???: or well duckweed

>> ???: “Lady Duckweed”

>> ???: whatever!

>> ???: Her name is Tamamo! D:

>> ???: ;-;

??? >> Well Tamamo is but even then

>> ???: But even then what

>> ???: ._.

>> ???: Its not lore breaking

>> ???: Its a Japanese given name

??? >> the -no Mae isn't :<

>> ???: who

>> ???: gives

>> ???: a

>> ???: shit

>> ???: its the display name

>> ???: her RP name is JUST Tamamo

>> ???: ._.

>> ???: Display name =/= Character Name

>> ???: and its still japanese either way

>> ???: not lore breaking

>> ???: What logic are you using here

>> ???: Tamamo, reffered to as Tamamo-no-Mae in title, is an Au Ra Raen raised under the Ruby Sea. She can be found wandering Kuganem having become a merchant and healer in her time above the sea.

>> Mint Kagami: You'd do me?! <3

>> Mint Kagami: Anytime sweetie <3

??? >> ..Exactly. Yes. She's...special.

>> ???: ut

>> ???: wut

>> ???: im in RP ls's

>> ???: asking if my name isnt lore abiding

>> ???: im being told it is

??? >> It's literally the name of a goddess =_=;

>> ???: Not in FFXIV?

>> ???: Wut

>> ???: And i had the name before SB

>> ???: and Tama isnt a goddess

??? >> Fox Spirit, w/e

>> ???: ._. shes said to be a demon if anything wut

>> ???: My point still remains

>> ???: she wasnt before

>> ???: i existed before SB

>> ???: ._.

>> ???: http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=19917

>> ???: Lol ill ask them

>> ???: since Doman RP ls's are telling me otherwise ???.

>> ???: ._.

>> ???: imma drop the chat log in

??? >> >~>?

>> ???: in the thread i made

>> ???: you are THE ONLY PERSON that thinks this when i talk about it lol

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I feel like I'm missing some text here.

 

Is this character Doman? A Raen Au Ra?

 

Does it even really matter that much if your character's name is abiding or not? (For the most part, I've never seen someone take issue unless a person was trying to seriously say their name was like Giggly McGiggles or something.)

 

 

Now, there are some conditions for Doman names, as they are based on a more archaic form of Japanese. Modern kanji/names aren't really used there. But if the name could have existed in the Heian or Edo periods, you're more than likely fine.

[Mother]

I feel like I'm missing some text here.

 

Is this character Doman? A Raen Au Ra?

 

Does it even really matter that much if your character's name is abiding or not? (For the most part, I've never seen someone take issue unless a person was trying to seriously say their name was like Giggly McGiggles or something.)

 

 

Now, there are some conditions for Doman names, as they are based on a more archaic form of Japanese. Modern kanji/names aren't really used there. But if the name could have existed in the Heian or Edo periods, you're more than likely fine.

 

Its a Doman Xaela (atm), until I get a potion going. Currently her display name is "Tamamo-no Mae" since I can't use an extra dash. Keep in mind I've had this name since the day Dashe sin your name dropped. I'd been planning it for awhile. Judging by wikipedia her name is from the Muromachi (Ashikaga) period. Some 200 years before edo, but I would assume the same.

 

I also added the context conversation.

[Lydia Lightfoot]

Xaela are apparently Turkish-derived, but plenty of people are given names from outside their home culture in the real world and it's not any issue. That aside, if you're intending to fantasia her into a Raen, the name seems fine to me as far as a Japanese-inspired name. I couldn't say if it's similar to an NPC or not, but if it is, so what. Nobody in real life has the same name, ever, right? As long as your character isn't an attempt to mimic said NPC (which from what you said, she isn't), that doesn't seem problematic at all.

[Kilieit]

Xaela are apparently Turkish-derived

 

15th century Mongolian. Slightly different part of the world, haha!

[Lydia Lightfoot]

Xaela are apparently Turkish-derived

 

15th century Mongolian. Slightly different part of the world, haha!

 

So we had thought pre-release, but the pronunciation of "khan" (and other words) and the use of the term "yurt" (Turkish) vs the term "ger" (Mongolian) for their tents tells the tale.

[Kilieit]

I think that's more to do with voice directors maybe not getting memos properly. What we can do is look at the official race naming conventions thread, which puts it in very plain terms (emphasis mine):

 

The second clan—the Xaela—take theirs from Mongolian.

[...]

As was mentioned earlier, Xaela names are based on Mongolian names/words used in the 15th century (give or take a few centuries). Lists of ancient Mongolian names can also be found on the Internet for those not versed in ancient Mongolian history (I’m guessing that’s a lot).

[...]

The following is a list of the clan names and a quick blurb describing the clan. The words used in tribe names are, for the most part, original words based loosely on 15th to 17th century Mongolian spellings.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Honestly OP, I think you're fine. Perhaps it just means the person you were disagreeing with is not a viable RP contact.

 

Some people do get worked up about seeing "imported names" from other characters/stories/etc, so I can understand if they're getting caught up on that. But at the same time, why not let them do their things and you do your thing? I don't see many people who are really gonna try to pull out a kanji dictionary and fact-check a name. That time is way better spent waiting in the balmung queue playing and enjoying the game.

[Nebbs]

Unless I am missing something, like the name is offensive or somehow a snowflake name then this sounds more like that person complaining is yanking your chain. If it works for you and your concept thank them for their feedback and move on.

 

I do admit to having a personal gripe against using a different character name to your nameplate, only because it is confusing and requires others to keep a note of the IC name (ah if only the game had that feature).  You could put the IC name in your search text.

[Mother]

Xaela are apparently Turkish-derived, but plenty of people are given names from outside their home culture in the real world and it's not any issue. That aside, if you're intending to fantasia her into a Raen, the name seems fine to me as far as a Japanese-inspired name. I couldn't say if it's similar to an NPC or not, but if it is, so what. Nobody in real life has the same name, ever, right? As long as your character isn't an attempt to mimic said NPC (which from what you said, she isn't), that doesn't seem problematic at all.

 

I had this name the day Dashes were put out, and was waiting for them just for this name. I never considered for a moment that Doma would have a Tamamo.

 

 

Xaela are apparently Turkish-derived

 

15th century Mongolian. Slightly different part of the world, haha!

 

I think someone else said that earlier today online as well.

 

 

Unless I am missing something, like the name is offensive or somehow a snowflake name then this sounds more like that person complaining is yanking your chain. If it works for you and your concept thank them for their feedback and move on.

 

I do admit to having a personal gripe against using a different character name to your nameplate, only because it is confusing and requires others to keep a note of the IC name (ah if only the game had that feature).  You could put the IC name in your search text.

 

I just assume people would call her Tamamo upon seeing her name was clearly supposed to be Tamamo-no-Mae instead of Tamamo-no Mae. Her name is just Tamamo, with Tamamo-no-Mae being her merchant tag of sorts. If someone was to refer to her in character, they would more than like use her title, Tamamo-no-Mae, for clarification if they knew other Tamamo's.

[SapphireSkylines]

Yeah I think your name is fine. Actually, if there's a NPC in-game with the same name as you, I would think of that as a good sign, that means your name is canon and you followed the rules to the point that SE thought that was a lore abiding enough to add an NPC with that name. Was your friend the only person that was complaining or have other people complained too? Because I don't see anything wrong with it.

[Oyuu]

If someone is giving you a rough time and unnecessary criticism regarding lore, and will not let up when told politely it's fine or whatever, they're probably not the best roleplayer to interact with. 

 

Speaking even as a lore friendly roleplayer, no one should be telling you what to name your character at the end of the day. It's your choice and it ain't cheap to change. You picked a doman-sounding name for a doman character, so you didn't do bad at all. If they don't like it, they can just go on their way instead of filling you with doubt when you've already asked second or third opinions.

[Kieron Lohengrin]

Xaela are apparently Turkish-derived, but plenty of people are given names from outside their home culture in the real world and it's not any issue. That aside, if you're intending to fantasia her into a Raen, the name seems fine to me as far as a Japanese-inspired name. I couldn't say if it's similar to an NPC or not, but if it is, so what. Nobody in real life has the same name, ever, right? As long as your character isn't an attempt to mimic said NPC (which from what you said, she isn't), that doesn't seem problematic at all.

 

I had this name the day Dashes were put out, and was waiting for them just for this name. I never considered for a moment that Doma would have a Tamamo.

 

 

Xaela are apparently Turkish-derived

 

15th century Mongolian. Slightly different part of the world, haha!

 

I think someone else said that earlier today online as well.

 

 

Unless I am missing something, like the name is offensive or somehow a snowflake name then this sounds more like that person complaining is yanking your chain. If it works for you and your concept thank them for their feedback and move on.

 

I do admit to having a personal gripe against using a different character name to your nameplate, only because it is confusing and requires others to keep a note of the IC name (ah if only the game had that feature).  You could put the IC name in your search text.

 

I just assume people would call her Tamamo upon seeing her name was clearly supposed to be Tamamo-no-Mae instead of Tamamo-no Mae. Her name is just Tamamo, with Tamamo-no-Mae being her merchant tag of sorts. If someone was to refer to her in character, they would more than like use her title, Tamamo-no-Mae, for clarification if they knew other Tamamo's.

 

1. don't worry about it

 

2. you can write in a workaround for your character, such as her being born xaela but named and adopted/raised by raen

 

3. the racial naming convention thread the others linked above is pretty handy

 

4. being similarly named to an npc isn't the end of the world

 

5. had one more piece of advice but got distracted by your sad alisha is sad avatar

[Aegir]

Can I call you Tomato?

[Seren]

The name sounds beautiful. If you playing a straight tribe born Xaela, its a little bit of a stretch, but if RP wise she is meant to be a Raen, then I see no reason why there is any problem. Having being raised under the Ruby sea is that adorable tiny village makes her naming scheme make even more sense. Just because the Japanese name is a reference to a mythological figure you like doesn't mean that you can't use it. She isn't a goddess in this world. 

 

A big take away though... RP how you want to RP. No one here in this thread thinks your name is non-canon, and people are not going to shun you RP wise for it. I am sorry that your friend is being judgemental regarding your name. Someone could easily name their character Amateratsu and it be perfectly fine because... they aren't a deity in this world. However, I love the concept of a Raen from under the Ruby Sea!

[Crystal Chronicler]

I think the problem the person has is that your character is named after a Japanese mythological figure (unless they are thinking of the Fate/Extra character who is based on the myth). I suppose some people can find this a bit special snowflaky, but unless there is an NPC by that name I don't see what the problem is.

 

And as far as having a name that doesn't fit race naming conventions, I say it shouldn't matter so long as its an actual name. My main is a female Miqo'te named Jenna Oswell who is named after the character Jenna from Golden Sun. It doesn't fit Miqo'te naming conventions, but it shouldn't have to and I ain't about to change it.

[Eses Fafa]

I think the problem the person has is that your character is named after a Japanese mythological figure (unless they are thinking of the Fate/Extra character who is based on the myth). I suppose some people can find this a bit special snowflaky, but unless there is an NPC by that name I don't see what the problem is.

 

And as far as having a name that doesn't fit race naming conventions, I say it shouldn't matter so long as its an actual name. My main is a female Miqo'te named Jenna Oswell who is named after the character Jenna from Golden Sun. It doesn't fit Miqo'te naming conventions, but it shouldn't have to and I ain't about to change it.

Quite so, it's alright to take inspiration from something, but to outright copy something is never on. Even if it translates to 'Splendid Gem of the Past', Raen names in fact have an adjective or verbal-based surname in ENGLISH (myes, jolly good!). As for having names that don't suit the lorehound's strict rules, there's plenty of ways one can get their name altered outside of racial traditions. Mine was a family that splintered from the Moshantu, and Miss Oswell here sounds like the sort to come up from a hyuran family/household!

 

But Tamamo-no-Mae as a name choice is unfortunately no better than Naruto Uzumaki, Abraham Lincoln, Thor Odinson, Corey Inthehouse, etc etc.

[Branson Thorne]

But Tamamo-no-Mae as a name choice is unfortunately no better than Naruto Uzumaki' date=' Abraham Lincoln, Thor Odinson, Corey Inthehouse, etc etc. [/quote']

 

Surely you jest...

 

Granted I would be hard pressed to take Abraham Lincoln or Corey Inthehouse seriously for any sort of RP, but names like Thor or Naruto, who cares? If a player wants to sport white hair and walk away claiming his name is Thancred, without actually being Thancred, I say who cares? Does it really effect you that much?

 

And lets just say that I can understand a persons dislike for having the same name as an influential NPC. But to have an aversion to a name that is not present in the current game? That sounds a bit harsh. Especially since names overlap IRL. I bet I even know someone with your same name. OR they to be taken any less serious? Should I dislike someones name because they are called George, and obviously they are copying George Washington? lol

 

I say as long as a person is not actually RPing that particular character, and using just the name, let them be.

[Drej]

Whoever you were talking to has a weird nitpick problem.

 

I'm a lore snob across all of my games/universes and I think yours is just fine. She's supposed to be a Raen, yes? Then you're fine. I did do a quick google out of curiosity and found that the name seems to be actually from a JRPG character, but meh. Raen have Japanese names and you're not actually trying to BE that JRPG character (I also have no idea if you were even aware that character exists), so I'd say don't worry about this person and block them if they're determined to keep giving you crap for it.

[Jana]

Stormblood FATE spoilers, potentially.

 

 

The "Foxy Lady" boss FATE in Yanxia has a giant nine-tailed fox boss named Tamamo-no-Gozen, likely named after both Tamamo-no-Mae and Tomoe Gozen.

 

[ShoggMommy]

But Tamamo-no-Mae as a name choice is unfortunately no better than Naruto Uzumaki' date=' Abraham Lincoln, Thor Odinson, Corey Inthehouse, etc etc. [/quote']

 

Surely you jest...

 

Granted I would be hard pressed to take Abraham Lincoln or Corey Inthehouse seriously for any sort of RP, but names like Thor or Naruto, who cares? If a player wants to sport white hair and walk away claiming his name is Thancred, without actually being Thancred, I say who cares? Does it really effect you that much?

 

And lets just say that I can understand a persons dislike for having the same name as an influential NPC. But to have an aversion to a name that is not present in the current game? That sounds a bit harsh. Especially since names overlap IRL. I bet I even know someone with your same name. OR they to be taken any less serious? Should I dislike someones name because they are called George, and obviously they are copying George Washington? lol

 

I say as long as a person is not actually RPing that particular character, and using just the name, let them be.

 

I would have to agree with Six on this. Parents have been historically known to name their children after famous entities. So I don't see why RPers cannot. What about names that; for example you had created let's just say 'Arlene' whatever the heck. You've had Arlene for years and suddenly a pop culture anime/book/tv show/videogame (FFXIV) suddenly uses this name and it becomes super popular? Will you be forced to change your name because it's suddenly a commonly known name? No. I'd have to say absolutely not. Even a name like 'Naruto' is just the Japanese word for Fish-cake. This is something that existed before Naruto.

 

Interestingly; while we're on the same track- Jiraya from Naruto is a historically mythical person and the name was used. I guarantee you no one who doesn't keep Japanese mythology would have not known this. Now people are like "Oh you're stealing from Naruto" when the fact is this is something that long existed before Naruto the anime. So I find it a bit silly to try to police someone's use of a name of all things.

 

Frankly who cares. If you just avoided -every- popular name your list would end up so small for choices- and typically ugly choices. If we avoided every mythological name, every pop culture name, every Top 20 Common Names for 2017 we're really going to end up with a small list. Where do we draw the line? Is it at "Naruto Uzamaki" or "Naruto" or even to the point of "Naruti"? Let people play what they want; they really aren't harming anything. If it's something that bothers folks so much just don't rp with the person.

 

Personally? I use lore abiding names because I think it's fun to create something like that within the structure of the game. I love lore. But there are times; for example my SO plays a 'city miqo'te' since it's something that prexists 2.0 where there were no real name conventions who is named Lakin Chase but he's got reasons for the name use instead of a tribal name. OP if you can work it into your favor and can make reasons why there would be an exception for your character- by all means go ahead.

[Gegenji]

As a bit of an extra nail in the coffin... I wonder if George Washington Carver ever got picked on or ignored for having the full name of a president in his name.

 

And, to a more of an extreme sense... man, if we couldn't name people after famous entities, think of all the names from the Bible we couldn't use. Jacob, David, Joshua, Peter, Mary...

 

That said, I do agree with Six on the point that some names - if of high enough profile and used in their entirety - will likely get you some odd looks. Naruto might work, but Naruto Uzumaki might get people wary. Abraham or Lincoln might work on their own, but combined... not so much. I think the issue would also be magnified if the name doesn't fit the naming schemes of the race or doesn't have a good explanation for why they're named like that. Like a green-skinned Sea Wolf who is just named Bruce Banner.

 

In the OP's case, it's a name that fits the naming scheme just fine. Of course, I might be a bit biased on the matter considering my Raen's (first) name is taken from a fighting game and I've yet to see any issues with it. :blush:

[Crystal Chronicler]

Stormblood FATE spoilers, potentially.

 

 

The "Foxy Lady" boss FATE in Yanxia has a giant nine-tailed fox boss named Tamamo-no-Gozen, likely named after both Tamamo-no-Mae and Tomoe Gozen.

 

 

 

 

If I'm not mistaken, her name would translate to "Morning Duckweed". If that's the case, its hilarious.:lol:

[Lydia Lightfoot]

I think that's more to do with voice directors maybe not getting memos properly. What we can do is look at the official race naming conventions thread, which puts it in very plain terms (emphasis mine):

 

The second clan—the Xaela—take theirs from Mongolian.

[...]

As was mentioned earlier, Xaela names are based on Mongolian names/words used in the 15th century (give or take a few centuries). Lists of ancient Mongolian names can also be found on the Internet for those not versed in ancient Mongolian history (I’m guessing that’s a lot).

[...]

The following is a list of the clan names and a quick blurb describing the clan. The words used in tribe names are, for the most part, original words based loosely on 15th to 17th century Mongolian spellings.

 

 

Like I'd said, the pre-release data indicated Mongolian, but the actual script (both written and spoken - which has consistent pronunciation among all the actors, I paid attention after I heard the words spoken in an unexpected way after the very first time) points to Turkish. That said, there's substantial enough overlap between the cultures - particularly in the time of Genghis Khan and predecessors - that it's entirely possible their culture is, itself, a blend (language akin to Turkish norms, names akin to Mongol norms, etc). In any case, best for us not to hijack the OP's thread.

[Mother]

Stormblood FATE spoilers, potentially.

 

 

The "Foxy Lady" boss FATE in Yanxia has a giant nine-tailed fox boss named Tamamo-no-Gozen, likely named after both Tamamo-no-Mae and Tomoe Gozen.

 

 

 

 

As stated, I had this name near the beginning of Heavensward. I was ecstatic to finally get some form of Tamamo ears tho.

 

Also, could people stop shit talking my friend that I'm having the debate with? Yeesh.