discussion Do most people hate Thordan XII as a character? If so, why?

[Marisa]

I've noticed a trend on the XIV subreddit that really confuses me, but any time I ask this, I just get flamed with no real answers.   

What's up with all the Thordan hate?  

 

Basically, any time I talk about the redeeming qualities of any other villain we've had, its usually received very well and a lot of people agree with me, or at least discuss why they disagree. But the moment I mention that I liked Archbishop Thordan, or that his perspective had some merit to it, I get downvoted until my comment becomes hidden and not a single person replies. This has happened probably five or six times. I don't particularly care about the downvotes, I just really want answers!

 

You guys are, on average, a good bit more mature and level-headed, so I'll ask you: why do people get so upset about Thordan?   

 

I realize this is a strange question, but I'm just frustrated because I really liked him and I just want to be able to talk about him without people getting mad :?

[PSDuckie]

I don't hate Thordan as a character.  Is he a well-written villain?  Yes.  But does he belong in the same category as, say, Yotsuyu?  No.

[Valence]

I haven't witnessed that yet I suppose. But speaking about characters on that reddit in a negative way is the best way to get downvotes since it's full of fanboys and girls and hysterical groupies at times.

 

Was that in the Igeyorhm reddit commission thread by any chance?

[Marisa]

I haven't witnessed that yet I suppose. But speaking about characters on that reddit in a negative way is the best way to get downvotes since it's full of fanboys and girls and hysterical groupies at times.

 

Was that in the Igeyorhm reddit commission thread by any chance?

 

It was! I mean, it's been a number of different threads but that was the most recent one. I think my comment is down to -9 now, but it was up at +7 at one point so thats probably 20+ downvotes.

[Teadrinker]

There's no accounting for taste.

[Faye]

I rarely even look at the reddit so I don't really know what's going on there. Personally I don't hate Thordan nor do I find him poorly written or anything, but I do find him incredibly boring and do not feel that he made Heavensward any more engaging.

[Aegir]

I don't like the way they presented him.

 

I wish he had been introduced as maybe a jerk but not necessarily an evil guy, then as the HW story progressed we were revealed more and more about his corruption. But if I remember right, either the first or second time we see him it's like: BOOM ASCIANS.

 

It made me less interested in him.

[Gegenji]

I don't like the way they presented him.

 

I wish he had been introduced as maybe a jerk but not necessarily an evil guy, then as the HW story progressed we were revealed more and more about his corruption. But if I remember right, either the first or second time we see him it's like: BOOM ASCIANS.

 

It made me less interested in him.

 

I think he symbolizes a lot of the missed potential people saw in the Heavensward MSQ. You had all this potential for deep intrigue and politics inherent in a thousand-year long war and the falsehoods it was built upon. But in the end the Warrior of Light strolls on in and not only ends the war, he more or less helps also end the class war in Ishgard itself, and any depth that could be had with the Archbishop devolved into "he's evil and wants to become a god/primal."

 

Really, if I want to be poetic (and fail miserably at it), I'd compare Thordan's whole prospect to the very end of his fight. Beautiful environment and buildup only to really accomplish nothing and leave you watching them kind of pathetically flail around until you finish it and move onto the next thing.

[Mermaid]

It was! I mean, it's been a number of different threads but that was the most recent one. I think my comment is down to -9 now, but it was up at +7 at one point so thats probably 20+ downvotes.

 

Well, I got curious and dug it up. If it's the comment I think it is, I think it's more likely it was downvoted for what was said about Ysayle. Other comments in the thread/chain mentioning not liking this or that character are also downvoted.

 

As for the topic, I didn't hate Thordan. I saw him as something of an anti-villain and that was interesting to me. He had his people's interest in mind he just went about things the wrong way.

[Valence]

I haven't witnessed that yet I suppose. But speaking about characters on that reddit in a negative way is the best way to get downvotes since it's full of fanboys and girls and hysterical groupies at times.

 

Was that in the Igeyorhm reddit commission thread by any chance?

 

It was! I mean, it's been a number of different threads but that was the most recent one. I think my comment is down to -9 now, but it was up at +7 at one point so thats probably 20+ downvotes.

 

As was said above it's probably a lot more tied to the "negative" comment about Ysayle, since my own replies weren't as much downvoted. But yes, Thordan has less charisma than badass Baelsar, or more-edgy-than-bismuth-Zenos-with-a-god-voice-actor. Out of the three, fuck Zenos tbh. The two others are great.

 

And frankly, I don't give two fucks about downvotes. If I was after upvotes I would only write comments on lore like the ones I wrote just above that started the whole thing.

[Marisa]

It was! I mean, it's been a number of different threads but that was the most recent one. I think my comment is down to -9 now, but it was up at +7 at one point so thats probably 20+ downvotes.

 

Well, I got curious and dug it up. If it's the comment I think it is, I think it's more likely it was downvoted for what was said about Ysayle. Other comments in the thread/chain mentioning not liking this or that character are also downvoted.

 

 

Thats fair. I will never understand how people could stand her, let alone like her.

[Kieron Lohengrin]

* Thordan VII

[Kallera]

I had the feeling that Thordan was supposed to be a tragic character, of someone that knew they were already in too deep with both having to contend a 1000 year war, immortal chessmasters, and the lies that were the foundation of Ishgard's faith. But instead it got bungled into a "popish bad guy". And a corrupt church that likely wasn't going to be fixed any day soon, but is still central to the society. The Heaven's Ward certainly didn't help.

 

Then it got all wrapped up in a bow, with the common people all listening to reason and the complainers being wrong. Maybe it sounds a bit harsh, but the game seems to take a wierdly optimistic approach when it comes to calming down the uneducated masses. I feel like it paints itself into a corner in those moments.

[Valence]

It's a fairy tale with shonen streaks. Nobody expect political realism in lighthearted adventure sagas.

 

It lives with itself like that, like it lived with itself pretty well in 1.0 with the way darker and dry/objective, everyday stories and world, that was depicted.

 

The problem though, is that it tries to tackle grey and nuanced themes when the story is still super manichaean and reduces them into simplistic strokes, granted.

[Aegir]

I still like the pacing of HW more than I did Stormblood. SB moves way too fast.

[Impstatus]

I relise that just slapping funny image in middle of real conversation is bit criminal... But this thread just reminded me one of my favourites:

 

 

...For real, my incredibly insightful view on this people hating archbishop business is as follows: I recognise that reasons to hate any given fictional character are as varied as are the haters --- but, if the fictional character in question is not hot, that increases his haterbase significantly.

[Kieron Lohengrin]

One of HW's shortcomings was not giving us more moments to interact with the knights of the round as individuals before fighting them as endbosses. Befriending the ones among them who weren't dicks would've given the last battle more heft.

 

DRK 60-70 questline lets you do something nice posthumously for surviving and bereaved family members of the Heavens' Ward, but not everyone will play the class and see it.

[V'aleera]

On 12/17/2017 at 4:39 PM, Aegir said:

I wish he had been introduced as maybe a jerk but not necessarily an evil guy

That's kinda how it was though. He was very straightforward about the fact that Ascians were present and courting him, and that his plan was ultimately to be rid of them.

[Talamh]

I would say that perhaps it's because he had our lover killed.
Or perhaps it's because he's just old.