Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Rules for Event 2 in first post)

[Askier]

Got that right.

 

Also, for clarifications, is Goblet considered within the city or.. not?

 

So is all of Goblet's water actually contaminated too like said before? Because I still RP goblet mainly as out of Ul'dah physical vicinity.

Just told Kage in-game but need to post here.  The -fountain- in Goblet is poisoned but the water and river in middle of Goblet is not and drinkable cause there is a water fall and that would have swept poison away.

[Askier]

Got that right.

 

Also, for clarifications, is Goblet considered within the city or.. not?

 

So is all of Goblet's water actually contaminated too like said before? Because I still RP goblet mainly as out of Ul'dah physical vicinity.

 

...the Goblet is directly connected to Ul'dah via a passageway by the Miner's Guild. That's really close, vicinity-wise, if not a part of.

 

I feel the need to state the above because, um, I ran into some people who didn't know that that entrance existed... yeah.

I used to be one of those! lol

[Knight Kat]

Before I try to make a point on something here, I need to do a little summary of certain events. This summary is full of RP story spoilers, but please bear with me as it is important to the point I will try to make.

 

 

Kiht arrives to help Kahn'a one day due to a request for aid. She arrives with two others from her FC. One is named Miah. When Kiht and company arrive, they give out their names, but unfortunately, a collared person is nearby and Jin'li heard Kiht and Miah's name.

 

Jin'li asks Aust (Our FC's antagonist and a great RPer) to collar Kiht and Miah. I assume Askier OOCly chooses to do this because he knows there will not be enough villains for the event, and far too many heroes. Jin'li ICly chooses to do this for obvious reasons.

 

Well, Miah (being the good sport she is) decides to have her character get collared. This has the OOC benefit of dragging our FC further into the plot. She is ICly given the mission of collaring Kiht. OOCly, I did not want Kiht to be collared. ICly, I am also a good sport and heavy RPer. I will not break character for the sake of convenience. When Kiht was faced with putting on the collar, or watching Miah die, she choose to do what fits her character. She put on the collar. Miah would have died otherwise (That was what Kiht was ICly lead to believe).

 

As Aust stated, Kiht did -not- know about the poisoning happening in Ul'dah. She did not fight for the Garleans. She was at the event because I OOCly wanted to have fun and watch my FC mates, and she was ICly told to be there by Jin'li.

 

Before the event started, I sent Askier a tell. I asked him something like this: "I hate to have to ask this, but my character has a lot of zeal, and would rather die than fight for the Garleans. Is there an out for her other than me not showing up for the event?"

 

Askier told me he didn't want to kill off anyone's character and said Kiht could ICly intentionally loose and flee if I wanted. This was an acceptable out. I choose to have her ICly intentionally be put to sleep by her Thaumaturge cousin. Basically, Kiht wanted to loose. Her IC involvement in the battle was fake.

 

 

 

 

This event has made me question if I would actually kill off my character if it logically came to that. I think it should be noted that I am -still- a new RPer. I have been RPing for ten months, and everything has been put into Kiht. I aim for the heavy spectrum of RP, but Kiht is technically my -only- RP character. If she dies, I loose all my RP and must start all over on a new character. I am have been trying to think of a suitable alt for months, and can not think of any character that would be as fun to play as Kiht.

 

 

I'd encourage everyone to react ICly as they will, but I'd stop short of saying everyone who has ever been collared forfeits their character or is a bad rper.

No one anywhere, anywhere!, in this thread has said that anyone is a "bad rper".

 

No one said those exact words but, Aya, you did say:

 

You can say this all you like, Osric, and I know that you are prepared to accept the IC consequences for Osric.

 

But good luck to anyone who tries to convince people that they took part in this plot, and wound up as anything except:

A) Dead

B) Permanently on the run from authorities, vengeful relatives, and the demons of their crimes.

 

Mass murder is not fun and games. Its not redeemable; its not excusable; its not explainable. They can pretend that they have escaped the consequences somehow, but they shall not RP with me.

 

Unless, I am misinterpreting this, you are saying that you will refuse to RP with anyone who does not accept the consequences that -you- deem appropriate.

 

You also said this:

 

No question about it. There is no compulsion defense for accessory to mass murder. We should be looking for a triggering device not a disabling one for those collars.

 

I am sorry, but that seems so "black and white" to the extreme. Anyone who has a collar on is automatically guilty and deserves death? Getting collared is not automatically being an accessory to mass murder. My character has done nothing to deserve that death penalty, and if she survives this plot, I am -not- going to play her as a criminal. She has done -everything- in her power to ensure that Ul'dah was protected, and that Kahn'a had plenty of allies. Even after being collared she sent notes to her FC to tell them to find Kahn'a and save Ul'dah. I can not agree that she is a guilty person, and that is not just because she is my character. I am also arguing this for other characters in Kiht's position.

 

One thing I agree on is that the consequences -do- need to be discussed.

 

I OOCly knew about the poison, but did not OOCly know that Jin'li would succeed, or that it would cause this kind of death. As for what Kiht knew ICly? Almost nothing.

 

If everyone decides to expect my character to die, or be in hiding for the rest of her life after this event, I need to know. I may want to retcon, or pull her out of the plot before it is set in stone.

 

Also, please note that this post holds no anger. Frustration, and a bit of sadness, yes. But, I am trying to make a calm argument here.

 

Edit: Also, one thing I have noticed is people seem to want to ICly recognize Kiht even when she is in disguise. Kiht showed up to the event with a bandanna pulled down over the tattoo on her forehead. She wore a lot of face paint that blocked or obscured her facial features and hid her scar. You can not identify the difference between a Keeper and a Seeker until you get close enough to see their eyes clearly. Only the people who got close enough to see Kiht's face clearly should know she was there. Meyla, Khloe, Atticus, Tiergan, Sizha'to, Kahn'a, R'shenn, Naih'ir, Osric, Kanaria and Maybe Erik got close enough to see her face and identify her. No one else would.

[Aya]

I might not be able to reconcile someone taking part in the attack on Ul'dah and then returning to the city later on as if it is all okay. That's an issue of plausibility on my end, but I would -never- call such a person a bad role-player. I do not think there is such a thing, just different priorities and concepts of what is fun. Those don't always mesh but certainly the people involved in this thread and plot are amazing role-players,  if someone is to be called bad for what I said I shall take the label!

 

In terms of consequences numbers being bandied about are on th e hundreds of thousands. Just think about that for a little bit, and how justice and "justice" will react to an atrocity of that scale. Maybe I am being too black and white but this does not sound like something redeemable by trying to help here and there. I don't know that everyone with a collar would automatically be condemned for it but imagine how many people out there have had their lives ruined by the people who were collared - how careful will those seeking revenge be?

 

In terms of wanting to think about the consequences this is exactly the point I was trying to raise. I don't think most players with collared characters realized that they would be accomplices to an atrocity,  and that they should really have a chance to consider their involvement if that event result is to hold. 

 

Posting from my phone sorry if there are any typos!

[Knight Kat]

I might not be able to reconcile someone taking part in the attack on Ul'dah and then returning to the city later on as if it is all okay. That's an issue of plausibility on my end, but I would -never- call such a person a bad role-player. I do not think there is such a thing, just different priorities and concepts of what is fun. Those don't always mesh but certainly the people involved in this thread and plot are amazing role-players,  if someone is to be called bad for what I said I shall take the label!

 

In terms of consequences numbers being bandied about are on th e hundreds of thousands. Just think about that for a little bit, and how justice and "justice" will react to an atrocity of that scale. Maybe I am being too black and white but this does not sound like something redeemable by trying to help here and there. I don't know that everyone with a collar would automatically be condemned for it but imagine how many people out there have had their lives ruined by the people who were collared - how careful will those seeking revenge be?

 

In terms of wanting to think about the consequences this is exactly the point I was trying to raise. I don't think most players with collared characters realized that they would be accomplices to an atrocity,  and that they should really have a chance to consider their involvement if that event result is to hold. 

 

Posting from my phone sorry if there are any typos!

 

The scale and level of the crime does not matter when Kiht and a few others took no part in committing it. Just because there is a horrible thing done on a horrible scale does not mean everyone near the thing is guilty because they have a collar on.

 

The collars are not the same as dumping poison into the water. Jin'li and anyone else who knew what he was doing, deserve to be punished. People who willingly fought for the Garleans deserve to be punished. Those who have the collar, but have -not- helped Jin'li in any way are not deserving of death just because there was an atrocity. If anything, those in Kiht's position are victims until they do something to actually aid Jin'li.

[TheLastCandle]

I might not be able to reconcile someone taking part in the attack on Ul'dah and then returning to the city later on as if it is all okay. That's an issue of plausibility on my end, but I would -never- call such a person a bad role-player. I do not think there is such a thing, just different priorities and concepts of what is fun. Those don't always mesh but certainly the people involved in this thread and plot are amazing role-players,  if someone is to be called bad for what I said I shall take the label!

 

In terms of consequences numbers being bandied about are on th e hundreds of thousands. Just think about that for a little bit, and how justice and "justice" will react to an atrocity of that scale. Maybe I am being too black and white but this does not sound like something redeemable by trying to help here and there. I don't know that everyone with a collar would automatically be condemned for it but imagine how many people out there have had their lives ruined by the people who were collared - how careful will those seeking revenge be?

 

In terms of wanting to think about the consequences this is exactly the point I was trying to raise. I don't think most players with collared characters realized that they would be accomplices to an atrocity,  and that they should really have a chance to consider their involvement if that event result is to hold. 

 

Posting from my phone sorry if there are any typos!

 

This is an absolutely valid position to take In Character - understand, however, that there are other characters who will find it absolutely absurd; being a victim coerced into performing an action, out of fear, does not equal being party to the crime.

 

As a position to take as a player, out of character, this is absolutely unreasonable and moreover quite disappointing.

[Aya]

 

 

 

This is an absolutely valid position to take In Character - understand, however, that there are other characters who will find it absolutely absurd; being a victim coerced into performing an action, out of fear, does not equal being party to the crime.

 

As a position to take as a player, out of character, this is absolutely unreasonable and moreover quite disappointing.

Sorry to disappoint you!

[TheLastCandle]

Well, you're free to roleplay (or not) with other players as you see fit. Simply understand that this is something that works both ways.

[Aya]

Well, you're free to roleplay (or not) with other players as you see fit. Simply understand that this is something that works both ways.

Of course! ^^  I hope that doesn't happen but I will not hold it against you.

[Gaspard]

I might not be able to reconcile someone taking part in the attack on Ul'dah and then returning to the city later on as if it is all okay. That's an issue of plausibility on my end, but I would -never- call such a person a bad role-player. I do not think there is such a thing, just different priorities and concepts of what is fun. Those don't always mesh but certainly the people involved in this thread and plot are amazing role-players,  if someone is to be called bad for what I said I shall take the label!

 

In terms of consequences numbers being bandied about are on th e hundreds of thousands. Just think about that for a little bit, and how justice and "justice" will react to an atrocity of that scale. Maybe I am being too black and white but this does not sound like something redeemable by trying to help here and there. I don't know that everyone with a collar would automatically be condemned for it but imagine how many people out there have had their lives ruined by the people who were collared - how careful will those seeking revenge be?

 

In terms of wanting to think about the consequences this is exactly the point I was trying to raise. I don't think most players with collared characters realized that they would be accomplices to an atrocity,  and that they should really have a chance to consider their involvement if that event result is to hold. 

 

Posting from my phone sorry if there are any typos!

 

This is an absolutely valid position to take In Character - understand, however, that there are other characters who will find it absolutely absurd; being a victim coerced into performing an action, out of fear, does not equal being party to the crime.

 

As a position to take as a player, out of character, this is absolutely unreasonable and moreover quite disappointing.

 

 

Actually, this would root back to the point of 'how the world' as in, NPC's, law enforcement, etc, react to it. 

 

To give a few examples;

 

Let's say, all those that got collared, end up surviving the ordeal. Given the current details of the situation, there's a very high chance that those involved, (and seen), Will be sentenced to death in Ul'dah, and to be brought towards the authorities on sight. This is not speculation alone, but if you take a moment to think about it, never has 'being forced to' acquitted someone entirely of their guilt. 

 

You can't simply say 'person A forced me to kill a hundred of people' (I know that's not the case with most involved, just a general example). In the Eyes of the Law, you should've then simply allowed yourself to be killed, instead of killing those people. Ofcourse, the sentence will be different then if you would've done it willingly, but I find it hard to believe that any other verdict would fall. You can't go massacre a place and say 'I had to, otherwise bobby B would've tazed me to death."

 

Also, there's an old german proverb that says 'Not knowing doesn't meant not guilty'. It's a rough translation, but it still holds, and does so in most courts. Not knowing you helped kill a person doesn't make you any less guilty. It may change the sentence itself, but you're still guilty to a part. Now, as we're talking here about nigh-genocide, or atleast a health-epidemic that 'will' end fatally for many of Ul'dahs NPC's, you can liken it to a Nuclear Plants employee allowing some Core to go off cause 'Dude held a gun to my head'.

 

Now all those theories are nice and dandy if we try to draw parallels for the reaction of Ul'dah towards those Individuals, but we still have to factor in the type of Government that Ul'dah currently is. It is not a democracy, Courts don't always deliver justice, and Death, hanging, and the likes, are probably common sentences for something as trivial as threatening the wrong politician. Given this poisoning of the wells probably endangered all of Ul'dahs Politicians, they 'will' scream for blood, and they will 'not' have to fear that the public will not support them. Quite on the contrary, the Public most certainly will.

 

So Unless those  in collars find a surefire way to denounce all and any involvement, and most importantly find a way to 'Prove' that they're innocent, I have a hard time seeing how some of them will get out of it. It may not sound fair, but in regards to this plot, that is the only 'logical' scenario I'd personally see.

 

So my suggestion to those involved, that want to mend the wrath of Ul'dah on their characters, would be:

 

*Escape Ul'dah once the collars are off, and then run and never come back, as you will probably be posted with a 'kill on sight' note in Ul'dah

 

*Accept a certain Jail sentence depending your involvement (if it was low key involvement, settle for like one or two OOC Months)

 

*Accept Death

 

*Try to go the 'alter your features' route, which Is completely up to you, but will just seem kinda flaky if all those involved just go to the next 'plastic Eorzean surgeon' and get their faces fixed, assuming new identities etc.

 

 

 

 

 

As for Aya's Point:

 

As a Roleplayer in MMO's, the only direct control you have to make sure not to become victim to breeches of RP etiquette, in any fashion, is ignoring other parties. Ofcourse, it's a sub-optimal method, but sometimes, you're left with no other choice. If she says she's not willing to play with characters that, in her eyes, do not adhere to Lore, and make unrealistic plays, that is in her right to do, and perhaps the only method she can implore to manage the quality of roleplay she'll have. We all do it, when we for example ignore some dancing trolls in the Quicksand, or other trolls trying to disrupt our RP.

 

I think what Aya tried to convey isn't 'If they don't die, i'm not playing with them' 

but rather 'If they don't find a good reason that makes sense in the current scenario to survive this, With the entirety of Ul'dah on their neck[including NPC's/Brass Blades/whatnot] out for their blood, I'm not going to aknowledge them because they're breaking with the reality of my Roleplaying World/Immersion'

 

A wish to keep roleplay 'realistic' (With that, I mean cohesive with Lore), is something I can relate to very much, so I understand where she's coming from. And since MMO RP has no instance Like Admins or GM's you can address, who have the power to decide what 'is right' and 'what is not', in regards to the Plot, the survival of a character, and so on, your only option to maintain quality at such situation is either making said person understand where you're coming from, hopefully have them adjust said behavior, or, which is the easier course, simply ignore them.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Gaspard brings up a lot of good points. To add to it, I think we need to take a step back here to consider some different levels of character guilt/ethics/morality. 

 

First, we have the "collared" characters:

 

Collared - Not Involved

Collared - Did Not Want to be Involved

Collared - Did Not Want to be Involved, but will follow orders

Collared - Will Follow Orders, including killing

Collared - Will Follow Orders, including killing, and aware of the poisoning beforehand

 

Next, we have the "hired"/"ordered" characters:

 

Ordered to be a distraction

Hired for Gil - Simply a distraction

Ordered to be a distraction, including killing

Hired for Gil - Simply a distraction, including killing

Ordered to be a distraction, including killing, and aware of the poisoning beforehand

Hired for Gil - Simple a distraction, including killing, and aware of the poisoning beforehand

 

Naturally, there are probably additional roles not mentioned here, which fall outside the category of "bad guys", but I believe this is where most of the discussion has been pointed (outside of which places were poisoned). I don't think a black/white guilty/not guilty standpoint can really be achieved with the setup. 

 

Excluding character motivations, there are simply too many ways a person may have been drafted onto the "villains" side in this first arc to really be "guilty" of a crime they may not have even known was committed before it was possible to do something about.

 

Among other things, I don't think any of the "villains" would have been noticeable in a crowd, save for the ones that openly showed their faces. (Only Osric comes to mind at this point). Since I'm unsure how the other battles went, but I know that the encounter I was in, nobody on opposing sides even recognized the other side's characters. (Merc and Nat found out each other's identities rather quickly, but that would be expected. Mavhashi and Hornet I don't think recognized Nat, and would have seen Merc with/without a mask before. Kage was of course able to figure things out, which has had some RP in game/on forums to deal with the immediate effects.)

 

Lastly, we have the character ethics/morality, which I think can make all the difference. There are (or were) truly neutral characters like Merc who knew nothing of what was planned, how it would be done, or what could happen. I know at least in Merc's case, he didn't find out about the poisoning until Kage came pounding on his door for a "talk". I'm sure something similar has happened for other villain characters who were only intended to be a distraction, and were not there to kill/mortally wound people. Even for people who may have been prepared to die in battle/kill their opposing side, we wouldn't know if the planned death by poisoning would have been "ok" with those characters. If we look at the "compromised" characters, I believe we'd need to know more about their motivations and /why/ they've joined the villains before an OOC judgement could be passed, let alone some form of judgement ICly. At this point, the only character that is bad, intended to be bad, and has no regrets that I can think of, would be Jin'li, who will have judgement passed during this event.

 

---

 

I think it might be going a little too far into a white/black point of view to immediately condemn all of the villains. Granted, if Merc's identity is found out and he is associated with the incident, there will need to be consequences. But as he would stand, he probably isn't seen ICly as anything but "that guy who's started fights in the Quicksand" and "that man with the mask who kept tormenting Kage". From an IC perspective, there was no intention for mass murder, let alone death. He was simply paid to be a distraction, which kept Hornet, Mahvashi and eventually Kage too busy to look for Jin'li. For the other villains, I don't know. It will have to be RPed out if their identities are exposed, and how the Ul'dahn government will deal with that. (With a sizable chunk of the RP Law Enforcement community part of this, I can't imagine a mass-hanging or death sentence being a viable solution).

 

TLDR version: I don't think we can judge all of the "villain" characters as being equally guilty. There are too many factors, such as if their identities were hidden, if they were being forced to commit atrocious acts under the pretense of blackmail/death, or if they even knew what they were being used to buy time for. It seems extreme to immediately cut all of them off ICly, with only OOC knowledge of their involvement, which may be an incomplete story at this time.

[Gaspard]

The problem in seperating the guilt of so many people that played on the 'Villain' side, as you put it, is that we're back into assuming how Ul'dah would react. Something we have no feasable way of knowing. They might only try to find the heads behind the operation, or they may want everyone involved in any fashion hanged, akin to a witch-hunt. Guilty by Association, and/or standing on the wrong side.

 

In the end, it's not as much about deducting the degree of guilt in each character, but rather, what the Ul'dahn society will settle on as viable punishment, and given that Ul'dah follows a rather medieval system of governing, it's not improbable that it'd be rather a witch-hunt then fair, individual set of trials to deduct someones guilt or innocence.

 

I think that in general people should distance themselves from thinking of this in terms of 'fairness' and or 'Character A is more guilty then Character B'. It's more likely(or plausible), that they'll trial everyone involved as guilty of treason against the Crown and the Citizens of Ul'dah, which will translate into hanging for all of them. There will be too much pressure form the Citizens themselves for a verdict that will please them, rather then be just,as many people will have dead relatives, friends and spouses by that point.

[Austurmax Laforet]

To this I would add a point. Society quite often lets off people the public wants to see burn if due process finds them not guilty of wrongdoing. Example, OJ Simpson. Albeit they may have to live with the possibility of being shunned or someone looking to take justice into their own hands, but it is a thing that does happen.

 

Additionally, I would add that in most cases while coercion is not enough to actually get one off the hook for committing a crime, it usually does entail a lighter sentence. But besides that, there are some among the collared, like Kiht, that have committed literally no crime, even under coercion. And that should to be taken into account.

 

Just my 2 cents on the issue.

[Kage]

I just want to be clear though, even without knowing anything, they [the hired hands who actually attacked the city] are not innocent by any means [unless Ul'dahn authorities are aware]. People will see the fact that they are guilty in some way and with the scope of how badly the city was hit, they want blood.

[Gaspard]

OJ Simpson is an example out of a democratic/republican society of modern times, Ul'dah is more akin to a Medieval Oligarchy/Monarchy, governed through the laws of a Kingdom, not lawyers. Still, if you took a real-life example, you'd have to take an example like Osama Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein. Both where hanged/killed without a trial. This would be similar to it, as you have a Terrorist group injuring an entire City, not just a singular person.

[111]

This is like deciding what kind of crime you're going to convict the various levels of nazi leaders of while their tanks are rolling into france. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[Aya]

This is like deciding what kind of crime you're going to convict the various levels of nazi leaders of while their tanks are rolling into france. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Very true Nat!

 

I wanted to raise my concern about consequences before the mass murder became set in stone so that there was still time for Askier et al. to consider just how they want the event to conclude, and how they want the plot to proceed.  It looks like I am the only one seriously considering changing my involvement or character RP over it, and that's perfectly fair, if people want to be involved with it and to continue down that path, by all means, its a game intended to fun!  I don't know what I expected to accomplish, except just to raise my hand and draw attention to something that seemed really important, and kind of overlooked to me.  It just seemed like the consequences were not fully thought through when this was planned (my suspicion being because it was not supposed to succeed).  But its gotten me into all sorts of trouble! \o/

 

Gaspard really expanded on what I was trying to say.  Plausibility in RP is important, even to me (and my trivial, casual, barmaid RP!)  Aya's not going to swing around serving ale to mass murderers, I really didn't mean to offend anyone! I didn't think it would be that controversial to say.  I may have been too broad (and too tongue-in-cheek with what I was saying), but I hope that I have been clear enough that I have no ill-intent, nor ill-opinion of any player involved in any way, with any of this.  I keep saying it, but I mean it when I say you guys are terrific, and I'm glad that we've been able to have this discussion without too much in the way of fireworks   This community is truly terrific, and I am glad I am here.

 

I certainly have not meant to draw targets on any specific characters, or to try to say that people should condemn their characters to death.  What everyone should do is consider how they will deal with the consequences of what is happening, and if they actually want to deal with those consequences in-character.  If the answer to the later is yes, you should have a plan for the former, and you might want to consider how the rest of the IC world will react to it.  I've outlined my general thoughts on the matter, and I suspect that I am not alone in that.  I just don't want anyone to feel blind sided by the result of their RP.

[TheLastCandle]

The problem in seperating the guilt of so many people that played on the 'Villain' side, as you put it, is that we're back into assuming how Ul'dah would react. Something we have no feasable way of knowing. They might only try to find the heads behind the operation, or they may want everyone involved in any fashion hanged, akin to a witch-hunt. Guilty by Association, and/or standing on the wrong side.

 

In the end, it's not as much about deducting the degree of guilt in each character, but rather, what the Ul'dahn society will settle on as viable punishment, and given that Ul'dah follows a rather medieval system of governing, it's not improbable that it'd be rather a witch-hunt then fair, individual set of trials to deduct someones guilt or innocence.

 

I think that in general people should distance themselves from thinking of this in terms of 'fairness' and or 'Character A is more guilty then Character B'. It's more likely(or plausible), that they'll trial everyone involved as guilty of treason against the Crown and the Citizens of Ul'dah, which will translate into hanging for all of them. There will be too much pressure form the Citizens themselves for a verdict that will please them, rather then be just,as many people will have dead relatives, friends and spouses by that point.

 

That's all well and good, but this is a cooperative game. Some people are, rather understandably, attached to playing their characters. So going around drawing lines in the sand saying "this is how it should be, and if you don't conform to the way I see things, then to hell with you" is simply not the way to go about it. It does not set a good precedent for the community - and that's what we are, lest anyone forget.

 

Make no mistake: I thoroughly encourage and support any and all IC reactions as your character (and this is a general "your," directed at no particular person, since it's evident that Aya isn't alone in her thinking) sees fit. What I don't support, on an OOC level, is 1.) blanket statements, for one, regarding a diverse group of characters with numerous motivations and differing circumstances, and 2.) declaring refusal to interact with someone because you disagree with their RP choices. The former is simply making assumptions, and the latter is at best exclusionist and, at worst, metagaming.

[Zhavi]

Before you even get into the problem of consequences, I'm still wondering just who out of those who were collared are known to be part of the whole 'kill everyone' scheme.

 

Because -- let's face it -- if no one or few enough people (whether or not they're willing to talk being the key) knows what you did then yeah, you are going to get off without any form of punishment at all.

 

 

That and if we're using history as an example, soldiers of the losing side have gone native, so to speak, when their side lost for many, many years. Leadership doesn't usually get to run away -- they are well known, and probably arrogant enough to have a gajillion portraits made. But your common run of the mill soldier? Just another anonymous face -- unless someone is dogged enough to track them down and personally see to their punishment (and even then, it depends on who that dogged person is. Some pissy cobbler probably isn't going to be given much time from a busy-ass paper pusher who already has to deal with tons of paperwork -- even if he has details on a well known bad guy. He's one of many, many people likely stepping forward with complaints, and that's not counting the corruption).

 

Soldier on the losing side on the battlefield: yeah, dead or captured.

 

Managed to slink off it, able to speak the language and blend in? Remains to be seen.

 

 

 

 

 

and too, don't get lost in the details. Details are good. I like it when things make sense. But sometimes it's a rabbit hole, and sometimes it's best to simplify things. Especially when you don't have full control over the setting.

 

 

more edits:

 

My suggestion.

 

1) Each collared player decides whether or not their character can get away with it. If another character wants to make that difficult for the former, discuss it.

 

2) Those who are turning themselves in should get together and decide, along with whatever loremongers are interested, how to handle their punishment.

 

3) Those who are caught should get together and decide, along with whatever loremongers are interested, how to handle their punishment.

 

4) Those who are caught/turning in who want an out for their character should sit down, again, to figure out a way to legit get their character out of death sentence/whatever that will carry forward consequences.

 

 

Maybe not everyone will be okay with the results. That happens sometimes. But this rp happened, and for the sake of those whose characters are involved, I think maybe a good direction to go in is to start taking things one step at a time and figuring out where those characters should go from here. Assuming that's not already happening in pms. Because I'm a dummy sometimes.

[Kage]

I'm laying out for people what Kage has ICly known or done.

He knows Osric has been a large factor in the attack.

He knows that Osric is under pressure (unless it was said to Kage he doesn't know that Osric has an actual collar) but he believes that he [Osric] knew that this would cause a large blow to Ul'dah and if what has been said is what happens, is the biggest reason for it.

 

He knows of the two attackers who he faced. He's decided that one has enough just cause to be let free to act and the other he is asking "nicely" to help.

 

He knows nothing of who else may or may not have been involved but he has suggested that any known associates of Osric's to be brought in for holding and questioning. He wants Jin'li, and while knowing of him he has only just started to figure out the description of him which will be spread out amongst the Brass Blade guards who will know him so that he can't sneak in without countless of them dead and/or alerting the city of attack. Basically they're meant to be captured by any means short of death.

[Shayrei]

I'm going to just throw this in here, ignore it or not.

First, let me say that I have no ill intent or will toward Askier, Osric, Kahna or anyone else involved in these large schemes RPs. Hell, I'm part of my own. Besides that, I do thoroughly enjoy these characters' players (...and the toons themselves I suppose.  )

 

I've been watching this plot develop from the outside on this forum and from the glimpses I've gathered in game. Save from a short bit of RP that I had last night with Askier, I am not involved. Nor am I up to 100% of the information (even within this thread, as I've just been checking on it as I can, I'm sure to have missed something).

 

I can see where the concern is and I'm honestly a bit taken back by the guff that Aya (and others.. iPads don't make for the best places to reply) got when she spoke up. However, for now I'm going to step away from the consequences those involved should be held to because honestly, that's just something for me to handle ICly. Relationships will change, grudges will be held, just as they would with any situation where an outcome or verdict didn't match what an individual predicted or thought they should be. Daphine thinks Askier should have had stricter consequences when he threatened the city with a bomb many moons ago.. but it didn't happen. I don't know the workings of his situation ICly so I play with what Daphine knows. She feels sorry for him and the situation he was put into...but that's a man she can't trust despite the friends he has in his corner. It's just how it's worked out. I don't fault anyone, and as I've said, I still like the players.. it's all IC (He should be imprisoned! Not guilty?! WHAT!? STUPID GOVERNMENT RAWRAWRAWR... Canada... )

 

My question lies here.

 

What are we supposed to do if we're not involved in this RP? If we didn't actively sign up to participate in this?

 

Am just supposed to agree that the city has been attacked?  That this event that has poisoned the city's supply of water, something that I would think would be news worthy and panic inducing (regardless of the type of news sources we have. Criers on the street would just as well as a city wide facebook or news channel 4). Or am I supposed to let this duality begin? That my character, who is played as a doctor under contract for the Flames, curiously received no patients dying within 24 hours (or what have you). Or a resident who bathed the next morning not knowing of anything. Touched by the twelve and saved to live another day? 

 

Am I missing something that gives me an out?

 

I'm not one to completely shut down another person's RP. If you walk up to me spouting a strange tongue and calling yourself the high prince of Calcutta, I'll RP with you.. that doesn't mean I agree with what you're RPing, but you should be allowed to do what makes you happy.  However, I think the reach that which this event took place may have stretched a bit far (at least for my preference) as it's has the possibility of effecting everyone's immersion that plays within the walls of the city.  

 

I'm fortunate that Daphine has reason not to have been in the city for some time and can work out all the "wibbly wobbly let's make this all fit and make sense" bits with little interruption to my own RP, but now that she's back in the city and has been made aware of this ICly I can see where this might get a bit sticky.  

 

 

(Though the RP with Raandal and Daphine bickering over their duty to the city over their preference to a certain Miqo was an interesting twist to the night because I honestly didn't see it getting shut down like that!)

 

Anywho, I'm sure I've prattled on enough nonsense, just thought I'd toss in my two cents since that's what the internet is for after all.

 

Good luck with the trials! Hope you all can get to some sort of resolution for all involved!

[Erik Mynhier]

We had two characters come to RWHQ tonight to "find Askier". On the way random players, some not even associated with the RPC, but having overheard the plot joined in without the original two asking. What formed was a lynchmob outside our door that had to be RPed away. This thing is spreading to the masses IC and OOC.

 

The RP is fantastic, but the mass deaths... I have in all honesty been trying to RP away from that by saying stuff like guards posted, alchemist working around the clock, water being shipped in.

 

This RP is amazing, Askier and Kahn'a are amazing, but the mass poison may be to big. The idea is thrilling, but maybe we should rp it away quickly before they hang my buddy.

 

The biggest strength of this storyline is the number of people who have jumped in, its truly amazing and shows the communities need and want of an overarching community generated story. But at the same time it leaves the minority scratching their heads saying, "What are they doing?"

 

If we are doing this as a community, we may need to come together and fix some of these wholes, not by turning on the guys who are running it (not saying anyone is), but by getting with them and organizing better some ideas that can help tone down the crazy. We are all guilty, anyone who said "YAY FUN!" and ran to the gate to fight has their hands dirty. So no blame (not saying there is) but the points here are solid. We need to all sit down and figure out how we are going to settle this, before we get there.

 

Anyway, hell of a fun time guys, keep it up.

[111]

We had two characters come to RWHQ tonight to "find Askier". On the way random players, some not even associated with the RPC, but having overheard the plot joined in without the original two asking. What formed was a lynchmob outside our door that had to be RPed away. This thing is spreading to the masses IC and OOC.

 

That's why we have a cannon in our front yard.

 

GET OFF MY LAWN!!

[Erik Mynhier]

We had two characters come to RWHQ tonight to "find Askier". On the way random players, some not even associated with the RPC, but having overheard the plot joined in without the original two asking. What formed was a lynchmob outside our door that had to be RPed away. This thing is spreading to the masses IC and OOC.

 

That's why we have a cannon in our front yard.

 

GET OFF MY LAWN!!

 

So do we, but Lala's are nimble. They dodge those balls like nothing.

[111]

We had two characters come to RWHQ tonight to "find Askier". On the way random players, some not even associated with the RPC, but having overheard the plot joined in without the original two asking. What formed was a lynchmob outside our door that had to be RPed away. This thing is spreading to the masses IC and OOC.

 

That's why we have a cannon in our front yard.

 

GET OFF MY LAWN!!

 

So do we, but Lala's are nimble. They dodge those balls like nothing.

 

That's what Grapeshot is for.