Personal Housing Thread 2.0

[Naunet]

It can be plenty or not plenty. There could be 3 wards or 8 or 16 for 2.4, or more wards in the future.

 

Did you actually look at the numbers? 3, 8, 16 - none of those come anywhere close to being plenty. 16 new wards only services an additional 0.1% of Balmung's population at it's most illogically conservative estimate (dividing the 80k number on xivsoul by 6). It is perfectly reasonable for people to look at this, look at Yoshi's response of "Meh, but we will double the existing wards in 2.4 and consider adding more later", and view this whole thing as horribly insufficient. They would have to add many multiple hundreds of wards at a time in order to provide opportunity for housing to anything close to a medium chunk of the population, and that's really shown no evidence of happening. Do you think it's reasonable for people to have to wait 3 months, 6 months, a year, more to have access to a feature that, in most other MMOs, is readily accessible and extremely popular?

[Dravus]

It's also worth noting that Wildstar tried to market a large portion of appealing content as 'hardcore' and 'exclusive' and it backfired massively to the extent that the developers have been forced to reconsider the core design of the game itself.

 

The bulk of modern MMO players aren't interested in artificial barriers. They want to log on, do the stuff they want to do and then log off. They've already waited a long time for player housing to be fully implemented. Extending that wait isn't going to go down well for reasons that really should be obvious at this point.

 

I'm not trying to mean here. I really enjoy FFXIV and I want it to succeed. That doesn't mean I have to keep my mouth shut and refuse to speak out when there's a bump in the road.

[Naunet]

It's also worth noting that Wildstar tried to market a large portion of appealing content as 'hardcore' and 'exclusive' and it backfired massively to the extent that the developers have been forced to reconsider the core design of the game itself.

 

Eeeh just as a note, as I currently play WildStar - they haven't really changed the core design. They've just been carefully pruning out the bullshit from the hardcore tree - e.g. adjusting the medal requirement for dungeon/adventure completions for attunement because the timer requirement on Silver is far more applicable to status achievements (which it now has) than is was to raiding.

 

Regardless, however, things like housing are generally expected by the general MMO populace to not be some 1% or less exclusive feature. That's kinda why Carbine gives everyone their own plot when they hit 14.

[ArmachiA]

A lie by ommision is still a lie. If they didn't update their stance in the 9 months that they said it, it's a lie. I find it weird people are going "Well it was 9 months ago when they said that." and not, "Why didn't they update their position in the 9 months they had?"

 

It's weirdly shady. Doesn't sit right with me.

 

And YES, saying "Wait and see" is a very polite form of saying "shut up" btw.

[FreelanceWizard]

 

All, please stay on topic. If you have an issue with someone and their tone, please take it to PMs. This thread's been pretty nice and reasonable up until now.

 

[Warren Castille]

Q: When will individual housing be implemented?

A: It will be around half a year after patch 2.1's release. Currently, we are split between implementing a personal room within a free company house or personal housing. Since the decision will have a huge impact on how many additional servers we'll need to prepare, we have to carefully consider the balance of the housing system. We believe it will take roughly six months to have everything planned out and prepared.

 

What's to clarify? This is exactly what we got, only instead of "or" it became "and." Or is everyone sour about the later comment on it not just being FC housing made personal?

[Aldotsk]

A lie by ommision is still a lie. If they didn't update their stance in the 9 months that they said it, it's a lie. I find it weird people are going "Well it was 9 months ago when they said that." and  not, "Why didn't they update their position in the 9 months they had?"

 

It's weirdly shady. Doesn't sit right with me.

 

And YES, saying "Wait and see" is a very polite form of saying "shut up" btw.

 

If I talked about Phantasy Star Online 2 about their lies comparing to this, it is really a complete different level about what is really a lie and what is really vague. 

 

To answer your question where I've bolded and underlined, they finally reveal their greatest excuse of calling off the personal housing-only based instance, and that is...

 

Yoshida basically had this statement during TGS:

People have been asking if we put the FC housing and private housing in the same place. To explain, we didn’t want FC housing to be completely replaced with private housing. We thought if we introduced totally separate (uninstanced) private housing, we would end up with people totally abandoning the FC houses and never interacting with one another.

 

I will say, after what he said right up here - I respect him a lot. Honestly, this was my biggest fear for everything where  people will just never  bother to join FC at all or contribute of  helping each other out to build a FC house or airship (in the future).

 

I honestly think it was a sudden change to their agenda, where Yoshida WAS indeed planning for a personal housing only area, and he probably thought "Oh wait, then no one else will ever visit FC houses anymore."

 

But evidently, it's not a complete loss where he said "We decided to drop the personal housing thing". It was really more of "We installed it together instead." - and the biggest disappointment to the community was "not enough wards and plots for players to buy it" - Which is TRUE because  you know, Balmung is just one of those ridiculously populated server that will gain more players and have lesser plots. I won't deny that. 

 

Was it a good decision for him to do this? 50/50 for me. Because while I agree with his statements, I do feel unfortunate for other players who couldn't get the personal plot (including myself to buy a small one)  it just happens that I have to look at their views  too.

[Warren Castille]

FCs are already kind of a joke anyway. Housing was all that made them unique (that and the extra LS channel in /fc).

 

Before anybody brings up FC buffs, I'd like to request someone link me to a thread where players asked/begged/whined for those to be available to individuals. They don't count.

[ArmachiA]

I will say, after what he said right up here - I respect him a lot. Honestly, this was my biggest fear for everything where  people will just never  bother to join FC at all or contribute of  helping each other out to build a FC house or airship (in the future).

 

I honestly think it was a sudden change to their agenda, where Yoshida WAS indeed planning for a personal housing only area, and he probably thought "Oh wait, then no one else will ever visit FC houses anymore."

 

But evidently, it's not a complete loss where he said "We decided to drop the personal housing thing". It was really more of "We installed it together instead." - and the biggest disappointment to the community was "not enough wards and plots for players to buy it" - Which is TRUE because  you know, Balmung is just one of those ridiculously populated server that will gain more players and have lesser plots. I won't deny that. 

 

Was it a good decision for him to do this? 50/50 for me. Because while I agree with his statements, I do feel unfortunate for other players who couldn't get the personal plot (including myself to buy a small one)  it just happens that I have to look at their views  too.

 

Then he should have said so MONTHS AGO. Not the night of the patch, not after the patch. He could have said it during 2.35 and this could have been solved. They never updated their stance, even the thing that Warren linked wasn't clear "We may be doing this one thing, or we may be doing something else. We dunno" and then when personal rooms came out they still didn't really say much on personal housing.

 

It's not gonna ever sit right with me that they refused to keep people apprised of what was going on.

[Verranicus]

Won't lie, the night of the patch I stayed up late with the girlfriend so we could grab what we assumed would be reasonably priced houses next door to one another. When the information rolled out she was disappointed and I was downright angry.

 

I'm over it now, though, because at least now I can spend the couple million I'd been saving up knowinf full well I'll never be able to afford one of these 'personal' houses unless changes are made. =P

[Erik Mynhier]

Come on guys... sure SE modeled personal housing after the American Housing Bubble of the Great Recession........ but at least we got /hug. Don't let the housing bubble of eorzea ruin our snuggly and friendly RPC. Let's all take a deep breath, use that /hug, and lets be friends again.

 

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[Kellach Woods]

FCs are already kind of a joke anyway. Housing was all that made them unique (that and the extra LS channel in /fc).

 

Before anybody brings up FC buffs, I'd like to request someone link me to a thread where players asked/begged/whined for those to be available to individuals. They don't count.

Saying that they don't count because nobody whined about it doesn't make them not count - It's a perk you like, not a necessary perk.

 

And that's what a FC perk should be. It's a bonus for being with a like-minded group of wonderful individuals rather than something that is absolutely necessary.

 

If they plan on doing more with Chocobos you can guarantee you'll need a FC for it or drop a lot of gil on a plot. They just gave people who are allergic to FCs an alternate solution, albeit one that is extremely costly.

[Warren Castille]

But no perk of housing is absolutely necessary. My point is that the ONLY thing that stood out to make being in an FC "worth it" was the housing option and the extra chat slot.

[Dravus]

But no perk of housing is absolutely necessary. My point is that the ONLY thing that stood out to make being in an FC "worth it" was the housing option and the extra chat slot.

What's 'necessary' is completely subjective based on any given player's desires. You might not like doing dungeons but that doesn't mean there's not a hefty amount of players eager to run them over and over again. 

 

The developers have already announced that they'll be adding the ability for players to build their own airships within their houses in the future, so that's yet another appealing feature that will be locked behind an artificial barrier should the housing shortage not be resolved by that point.

 

Hunting down achievements in WoW and FFXIV isn't 'necessary' by your definition though countless players players invest in those features regardless and they enjoy it. If you don't care for housing, fine - just please stop acting like your word is law and that nobody should care for it if they're so inclined to enjoy such in-game features.

[Naunet]

But no perk of housing is absolutely necessary. My point is that the ONLY thing that stood out to make being in an FC "worth it" was the housing option and the extra chat slot.

 

Meh. I don't think FCs/guilds need anything to make them "worth it". They are "worth it" by providing a unifying banner for a group of people. Anything else is unnecessary gravy. Not saying they should remove perks, just that I don't think people should be made to ever feel like they need a guild unless they want to join a group of like-minded people.

 

Besides that, other games have managed to make both guild and individual housing quite successfully without absurd restrictions or worries of no one using guild housing because it's not special enough. People use guild housing for the exact same reason everyone wants a personal house: because it's there and it's cool and it's something that represents your group of likeminded people.

[Warren Castille]

But no perk of housing is absolutely necessary. My point is that the ONLY thing that stood out to make being in an FC "worth it" was the housing option and the extra chat slot.

What's 'necessary' is completely subjective based on any given player's desires. You might not like doing dungeons but that doesn't mean there's not a hefty amount of players eager to run them over and over again. 

 

The developers have already announced that they'll be adding the ability for players to build their own airships within their houses in the future, so that's yet another appealing feature that will be locked behind an artificial barrier should the housing shortage not be resolved by that point.

 

Hunting down achievements in WoW and FFXIV isn't 'necessary' by your definition though countless players players invest in those features regardless and they enjoy it. If you don't care for housing, fine - just please stop acting like your word is law and that nobody should care for it if they're so inclined to enjoy such in-game features.

 

In the loosest of terms, sure, content is subjective. If you consider chocobo dye to be content, we just disagree. It has no impact on gameplay outside of vanity. It's a step above free-to-play cash shop options.

 

I use the word "necessary" to imply you're not barred from playing the game in any way without a house. You lose access to personal land to garden on and the ability to hold a stable, which is fair. To repeat it in case it wasn't clear, I agree that they dd a shitty job making housing available.

 

Regarding airships, though: We have no idea what content will be used with them. If it's a multi-million gil timesink requiring all crafts to 50 and 4* synths and all it grants you is a different travel CS out of the cities, do you think it makes sense for a single person to build their own airship? It's meant to be something you work for, not something handed to you.

[K'nahli]

Is it unreasonable to believe that Yoshi didn't realise that a non-unique housing ward for personal homes was that big of a deal? Throw aside the limitations for a second because that is a redundant argument. Yes it sucks that more people can't get homes even in the near future, but its not like any credible company that wasn't run by completely, incompetent apes would deliver lackluster content, outright lie and break promises if they could help it.

 

People are upset. Fine, you have every right to be, but using strong and repetitive words to instill the idea that Yoshi is being sleazy and sneaky about everything sounds like you're just trying to validate your anger even more by getting more people on your side.

 

Should he have announced it sooner? Of course. But I will run with the idea that he simply underestimated the backlash it would cause, if any, because he had nothing to gain from hiding it if he genuinely thought that it would cause great anger amongst the player base. Even still, he's just a man whom is capable of mistakes. There is a lot the company have to try and deliver that stretch far beyond "mere" housing and sometimes things change and he cannot anticipate everything, including players' reactions/feelings.

[Warren Castille]

Is it unreasonable to believe that Yoshi didn't realise that a non-unique housing ward for personal homes was that big of a deal? Throw aside the limitations for a second because that is a redundant argument. Yes it sucks that more people can't get homes even in the near future, but its not like any credible company that wasn't run by completely, incompetent apes would deliver lackluster content, outright lie and break promises if they could help it.

 

People are upset. Fine, you have every right to be, but using strong and repetitive words to instill the idea that Yoshi is being sleazy and sneaky about everything sounds like you're just trying to validate your anger even more by getting more people on your side.

 

Should he have announced it sooner? Of course. But I will run with the idea that he simply underestimated the backlash it would cause, if any, because he had nothing to gain from hiding it if he genuinely thought that it would cause great anger amongst the player base. Even still, he's just a man whom is capable of mistakes. There is a lot the company have to try and deliver that stretch far beyond "mere" housing and sometimes things change and he cannot anticipate everything, including players' reactions/feelings.

 

Edited for content.

 

To sum up: Yeah, this.

[Dravus]

It'd be great if you could stop resorting to hyperbole and trying to twist other poster's words to be read in the worst possible manner. Role-players really are their own worst enemy and it's very telling that I can have this exact same discussion on a site like MMO-Champion yet the community and individuals here that love to market themselves as 'friendly and welcoming' can't stop sniping at each other.

[Elyscia]

Is it unreasonable to believe that Yoshi didn't realise that a non-unique housing ward for personal homes was that big of a deal? Throw aside the limitations for a second because that is a redundant argument. Yes it sucks that more people can't get homes even in the near future, but its not like any credible company that wasn't run by completely, incompetent apes would deliver lackluster content, outright lie and break promises if they could help it.

 

People are upset. Fine, you have every right to be, but using strong and repetitive words to instill the idea that Yoshi is being sleazy and sneaky about everything sounds like you're just trying to validate your anger even more by getting more people on your side.

 

Should he have announced it sooner? Of course. But I will run with the idea that he simply underestimated the backlash it would cause, if any, because he had nothing to gain from hiding it if he genuinely thought that it would cause great anger amongst the player base. Even still, he's just a man whom is capable of mistakes. There is a lot the company have to try and deliver that stretch far beyond "mere" housing and sometimes things change and he cannot anticipate everything, including players' reactions/feelings.

 

Edited for content.

 

To sum up: Yeah, this.

 

(Cannot unsee...)

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Is it unreasonable to believe that Yoshi didn't realise that a non-unique housing ward for personal homes was that big of a deal? Throw aside the limitations for a second because that is a redundant argument. Yes it sucks that more people can't get homes even in the near future, but its not like any credible company that wasn't run by completely, incompetent apes would deliver lackluster content, outright lie and break promises if they could help it.

 

People are upset. Fine, you have every right to be, but using strong and repetitive words to instill the idea that Yoshi is being sleazy and sneaky about everything sounds like you're just trying to validate your anger even more by getting more people on your side.

 

Should he have announced it sooner? Of course. But I will run with the idea that he simply underestimated the backlash it would cause, if any, because he had nothing to gain from hiding it if he genuinely thought that it would cause great anger amongst the player base. Even still, he's just a man whom is capable of mistakes. There is a lot the company have to try and deliver that stretch far beyond "mere" housing and sometimes things change and he cannot anticipate everything, including players' reactions/feelings.

 

Edited for content.

 

To sum up: Yeah, this.

 

(Cannot unsee...)

(Same. I'll always remember what was there. And laugh about it)

[Warren Castille]

I redacted it because it was petty of me. I'm better than that.

 

I've tried to point out repeatedly that Yoshi delivered exactly what he said he would, twice, and all anyone wants to do is say he failed on other terms. I can understand their points, but I think it's a bit much to imply this was malicious on any level. I think it was a lot of hopes getting built up and then dashed.

 

Should he have clarified the price thing? Yes. All anyone remembers is "850k" and he should have known better than to use someone else's number.

 

Should there have been more wards available? Hard to tell. The fact he specified at TGS that they know how much every player has means they didn't consider the need for housing. It took a long time for all of the original wards to fill up, so maybe they thought two wards until 2.4 would be sufficient.

 

I don't mean to take such a hostile tone. I'll be mindful of it in the future.

[Naunet]

I use the word "necessary" to imply you're not barred from playing the game in any way without a house. You lose access to personal land to garden on and the ability to hold a stable, which is fair. To repeat it in case it wasn't clear, I agree that they dd a shitty job making housing available.

 

Is buying and decorating a house something one does in the game? Is raising a chocobo, gardening, and dyeing a chocobo something one does in the game? The answer to those questions is, of course, yes. They are part of playing the game. Anything that you do in a game is content. The game is not defined solely by its dungeons and PvP.

 

Is it unreasonable to believe that Yoshi didn't realise that a non-unique housing ward for personal homes was that big of a deal?

 

It's not necessarily unreasonable, but that would certainly make him stupid. Anyone can look at the trend in MMOs today and see that personal housing is extremely important to the playerbase.

[Kage]

Based on some snippets I've read online when people see him st TGS and the cafe...

 

 

I don't think he thinks it is "that big a deal" to have separate ones just that there is one.

[Warren Castille]

I use the word "necessary" to imply you're not barred from playing the game in any way without a house. You lose access to personal land to garden on and the ability to hold a stable, which is fair. To repeat it in case it wasn't clear, I agree that they dd a shitty job making housing available.

 

Is buying and decorating a house something one does in the game? Is raising a chocobo, gardening, and dyeing a chocobo something one does in the game? The answer to those questions is, of course, yes. They are part of playing the game. Anything that you do in a game is content. The game is not defined solely by its dungeons and PvP.

 

This is a slippery slope, though. ANY gate to content is exactly that: a gate to content. This one happens to be artificial, and again, I agree the limit on wards makes it frustrating. This is hopefully going to be alleviated in 2.4 and then everyone should be able to have their own houses if they want one.

 

But saying "it's in the game so I should have it if I want" removes needing to work for it. If my idea of playing the game is wearing a Thug's Mug and Mandervilling on top of Tataru, I've gotta do the MSQ and requisite side story to get there.

 

I realize, of course, you're not arguing otherwise. I really do feel for the people who were willing to buy homes but were unable because of supply/demand.