PSA: If You Want to Romance RP, Don't Make Your Character A Minor.

[crowmeleon]

Doubtless, fetishizing is happening and shouldn't be, but this is something that really has nothing to do with RP at all. It's just a problem imported from the outside world.

 

My two points of disagreement is the idea that consenting adults could get in trouble for written portrayal, and that if there's any possibility that sexually charged RP can happen that you should age your character to whatever age your local government has deemed acceptable. That's needless and ridiculous.

 

That's understandable but still dangerous ground to tread. 

 

Written portrayals of underage children ARE illegal in some countries, such as Canada (SOURCE). Even within the USA the use of underage erotica has been prosecuted in the past, and is currently a hot issue regarding the definition of obscenity laws (SOURCE) and the first amendment, with both sides rallying to make an example of cases. In the past a labeled sex offender was convicted solely on the possession of graphic erotica involving children (SOURCE). While I don't like to deal in over-extended 'what-if's, combine that with a charge of sexual conduct with a minor (who lied to you about their age) and no, it is not harmless material. 

 

This is very much an issue in its infancy with little precedent to define what is or is not legal to the the legal system. What little precedent there is is either poorly enforced or changed completely.

 

The wording in the laws on both a state and federal level is vague, often referring to child pornography as "any child pornography or depiction of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct" (SOURCE : pg 1, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2252A. (a) (1)–(3)). Cited policy even differentiates between said "depictions" and "any visual depiction of child pornography" (SOURCE : pg 1, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2252A. (a) (5)–(6)). That is on a federal level.

 

On a state level, things get even messier. Let me give just a few examples.

 

CALIFORNIA: "California Penal Code § 311.11. Possession of obscene matterial depicting someone known to be younger than 18 years of age engaging in or simulating sexual conduct is a felony punishable by imprisonment for up to one year, 

ore a fine of not more thatn $2,500.00, or both. " (SOURCE: pg 6, California Penal Code § 311.11)

 

Well that's rather vague, let's look at the code itself. Just how do we define "obscene material?" 

 

"(a) "Obscene matter" means matter, taken as a whole, that to the

average person, applying contemporary statewide standards, appeals to

the prurient interest, that, taken as a whole, depicts or describes

sexual conduct in a patently offensive way, and that, taken as a

whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific

value." (SOURCE: CA Penal Codes 311 (a))

 

(b) "Matter" means any book, magazine, newspaper, or other printed

or written material, or any picture, drawing, photograph, motion

picture, or other pictorial representation, or any statue or other

figure, or any recording, transcription, or mechanical, chemical, or

electrical reproduction, or any other article, equipment, machine, or

material. "Matter" also means live or recorded telephone messages if

transmitted, disseminated, or distributed as part of a commercial

transaction. (SOURCE: CA Penal Codes 311 (b))

 

But of course, then we have the gloriously vague "lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value" (SOURCE: CA Penal Codes 311 (a)) - Under which those aforementioned books containing depictions of minors were legalized. So at what point does rp "lack seriously literary value"? And then the code contradicts itself:

 

   (h) The Legislature expresses its approval of the holding of

People v. Cantrell, 7 Cal. App. 4th 523, that, for the purposes of

this chapter, matter that "depicts a person under the age of 18 years

personally engaging in or personally simulating sexual conduct" is

limited to visual works that depict that conduct."

 

This post is getting lengthy So just one more example, For Pensylvania:

18 Pa. C.S.A. § 6312. © Selling, distributing, 

disseminating, or displaying any book, 

photograph, film, or computer depiction of a 

child less than 18 years old in a prohibited 

sexual act or simulation is a third degree felony. 

18 Pa. C.S.A. § 6312. (d) Possession of any 

book, picture, magazine, photograph, film, 

computer depiction, or any other material 

containing a child younger than 18 years old in 

a prohibited sexual act or simulation, is a third 

degree felony. 

(SOURCE: 18 Pa. C.S.A. § 6312. ©-(d))

 

My point here is not to prove the content legal or illegal in certain places in USA but to show what a royal clusterfuck the current laws concerning the material are, and contradictions not just within the codes themselves but in the actions of the courts. I don't like over-exaggerated 'what ifs' like I said, so chances are this will never be relevant to you. But to say that there is absolutely no risk just isn't true either. I'm sure I could go through the codes of every state, every province, and find these same inconsistencies and exploitable loopholes. Combine that with the risk of rping with a minor unknowingly and you could very well end up the poster-child for future policies regarding the issue. 

 

Well, to say 'you', isn't right. These issues are going to be roused not by those privately and prudently engaging in roleplay of genuine literary value. But those people will still be affected and held to the same policies triggered by, for lack of a better word, idiots like those harassing underage characters in game. Not even starting on the fact that laws change- And ARE changing. 

 

But at the end of the day that was not the point of this thread. The problem is that this is a theme that makes many people EXTREMELY uncomfortable, and as a community it is being normalized to the point that people playing underage characters are being regularly exposed to unwanted, unsolicited explicit advances.

[allgivenover]

It's my understanding that the California law has only been used to pile on a case against someone who was already under investigation for child pornography, it has never been used against anyone who only wrote something, and if it was it would be challenged and dismissed in an appeal court.

 

The fears about this are completely unfounded.

 

EDIT: Also please don't mistake me, I'm not really getting in the discussion about if it's right or if it shouldn't be done, as that's completely up to personal opinion and doubtless there are those here who think me a monster for providing a dissenting view that I will never convince otherwise regarding this kneejerk issue.

[Tiergan]

But at the end of the day that was not the point of this thread. The problem is that this is a theme that makes many people EXTREMELY uncomfortable, and as a community it is being normalized to the point that people playing underage characters are being regularly exposed to unwanted, unsolicited explicit advances.

 

I am just going to bold all of this.

[Delilah Scythewood]

The fears about this are completely unfounded.

 

Saying that they are completely unfounded may be a little harsh. I had an old friend who had started up an online relationship with a woman he thought was in her twenties and during that time they did text based erotica and RP with one another as the relationship went on.

 

One day I'm on the phone with him and he gets a knock on his door from the police. That twenty something was actually a sixteen year old girl whose mom read her chatlogs when she had stepped away from the computer for dinner and called the police.

 

It was very real and he got in trouble for it. Not enough to be convicted as a sex offender, but it still made a negative impact over his life.

[Sophia_Grave]

For some people, Roleplay is just cooperative storytelling and that's great. For others, it is roleplay, which, as PkThunda said, can lead down some dangerous roads.

 

Essentially, its intent.

 

However, I do want to say that, as a person with an underage character, it makes me extremely uncomfortable when players try to enter into a sexual encounter with her. I would totally be okay with a /tell asking me whether or not this was okay, but those never come. It begins like any RP session does, and I'm so exhausted of parsing each line of every RP she's involved with to find out whether or not I should bail, to point where I don't even want to enter into random RP anymore.

[crowmeleon]

It's my understanding that the California law has only been used to pile on a case against someone who was already under investigation for child pornography, it has never been used against anyone who only wrote something, and if it was it would be challenged and dismissed in an appeal court.

 

The fears about this are completely unfounded.

 

Well then I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree.

 

The lacking precedent on these issues, and the contradictions within the codes themselves as well as the wanton application of such (As in the case you mentioned which was cited in my above post) makes this a 'wild west' frontier of law. That case itself is a clear example of such. The codes that were drawn upon to decide the man's verdict were nebulous at best, leaving the decision to the discretion of the court. That case will now hold precedence over all cases that follow. These issues that will define case law have yet to arise, and no real predictions can be made to the effects those cases will have. 

 

Combine that with the inherent risk of unknowingly rping with a minor, and the devastating effects written erotica involving minors IC would have on such a case, I do not feel it is 'unfounded' in the slightest. Yes, the risk is minute, for most of us, I am not arguing that. but it is there. Not to even mention the possible non-legal repercussions of being socially branded as someone participating in erotica involving minors. 

 

EDIT: Which you yourself have acknowledged- In just playing devil's advocate you are being judged. However to call this an 'kneejerk' issue is hardly fair. Disagreeing with portrayal of minors in sexual situations in any context is a valid opinion. One I do not agree with on every level (As I can understand realistic portrayals of such with genuine literary value) but I can certainly understand when considering the broader consequences of such material.

 

But I will repeat that that was not the point of this thread in the slightest.

[Jana]

-- Random factoid I discovered on the internet: some "dating sim" games and "hentai comics" feature characters that are under 18; in their country of origin they're legal but in order for these items to be sold to other countries, localization teams change dialogues and bios to make the characters fit the regions they're selling to so consumers don't run afoul of child pornography laws.

 

No, they really don't in the United States at least. We have this thing called the first ammendment that criminalizing this would violate.

 

As for your random fact, it's because virtual images have since been criminalized, but not written words, no one is talking about images here.

 

As someone who's spoken with localizers before, I'm afraid I have to say that you're wrong on this one. Character ages do often get changed to over 18 before a work featuring, say, high school girls can be officially released in the US.

[allgivenover]

-- Random factoid I discovered on the internet: some "dating sim" games and "hentai comics" feature characters that are under 18; in their country of origin they're legal but in order for these items to be sold to other countries, localization teams change dialogues and bios to make the characters fit the regions they're selling to so consumers don't run afoul of child pornography laws.

 

No, they really don't in the United States at least. We have this thing called the first ammendment that criminalizing this would violate.

 

As for your random fact, it's because virtual images have since been criminalized, but not written words, no one is talking about images here.

 

As someone who's spoken with localizers before, I'm afraid I have to say that you're wrong on this one. Character ages do often get changed to over 18 before a work featuring, say, high school girls can be officially released in the US.

 

Again, this is in the case of IMAGES, not written portrayals. If it applied to writing then several of the books on my shelf would land me in jail. 

 

Seriously I cannot believe you all think that a written portrayal can be criminalized in this way. Whether two adults collude to make it happen or one writes it on their own. I'm really kind of floored. Go pick up the first ASoIaF book in a bookstore and flip to the part where it goes on in detail on several occasions about a 13 year old Daenarys enjoying sex with Khal Drogo and tell me that two consenting adult Rpers are going to get in trouble for writing about underage encounters. You can read it right in the store!

[Sophia_Grave]

-- Random factoid I discovered on the internet: some "dating sim" games and "hentai comics" feature characters that are under 18; in their country of origin they're legal but in order for these items to be sold to other countries, localization teams change dialogues and bios to make the characters fit the regions they're selling to so consumers don't run afoul of child pornography laws.

 

No, they really don't in the United States at least. We have this thing called the first ammendment that criminalizing this would violate.

 

As for your random fact, it's because virtual images have since been criminalized, but not written words, no one is talking about images here.

 

As someone who's spoken with localizers before, I'm afraid I have to say that you're wrong on this one. Character ages do often get changed to over 18 before a work featuring, say, high school girls can be officially released in the US.

 

Again, this is in the case of IMAGES, not written portrayals. If it applied to writing then several of the books on my shelf would land me in jail. 

 

Seriously I cannot believe you all think that a written portrayal can be criminalized in this way. Whether two adults collude to do make it happen or one writes it on their own. I'm really kind of floored. Go pick up the first ASoIaF book in a bookstore and flip to the part where it goes on in detail on several occasions about a 13 year old Daenarys enjoying sex with Khal Drogo and tell me that two consenting adult Rpers are going to get in trouble for writing about underage encounters. You can read it right in the store!

No, this is happening way too often to be some literary gambit used to set a specific mood, setting, or emotion in the reader. No one is saying this type of thing doesn't have artistic merit; we're saying that there is unwarranted advances in play that ought to stop. I don't think anyone who cold-pitches the idea of sex with another player's underage character has some grand scheme in mind. Behind close doors and in private, people can do whatever they want.

[crowmeleon]

-- Random factoid I discovered on the internet: some "dating sim" games and "hentai comics" feature characters that are under 18; in their country of origin they're legal but in order for these items to be sold to other countries, localization teams change dialogues and bios to make the characters fit the regions they're selling to so consumers don't run afoul of child pornography laws.

 

No, they really don't in the United States at least. We have this thing called the first ammendment that criminalizing this would violate.

 

As for your random fact, it's because virtual images have since been criminalized, but not written words, no one is talking about images here.

 

As someone who's spoken with localizers before, I'm afraid I have to say that you're wrong on this one. Character ages do often get changed to over 18 before a work featuring, say, high school girls can be officially released in the US.

 

Again, this is in the case of IMAGES, not written portrayals. If it applied to writing then several of the books on my shelf would land me in jail. 

 

Seriously I cannot believe you all think that a written portrayal can be criminalized in this way. Whether two adults collude to do make it happen or one writes it on their own. I'm really kind of floored. Go pick up the first ASoIaF book in a bookstore and flip to the part where it goes on in detail on several occasions about a 13 year old Daenarys enjoying sex with Khal Drogo and tell me that two consenting adult Rpers are going to get in trouble for writing about underage encounters. You can read it right in the store!

 

That falls under 'literary value' as previously discussed. You're going to have a hard time proving smut involving a minor on an mmo as something of 'literary value' considering the general public would consider it on the same level as sexting. The problem is that everyone who engages in this thinks that what they're writing is above that line- Whether or not it is actually true. Not to mention that the book is written by one person, not two parties. No, the chances of you being prosecuted for that alone are next to nil- But it's something that could affect you should other legal complications arise (Not even just say, unknowingly rping with a minor. It could affect your custody battle, or really any case your character is called into question) or just in everyday life (If it got out it could jeopardize your career, or your friendships, yadda yadda )

 

But again, that was not the purpose of this thread. We're discussing an unwanted social trend affecting rpers within our community.

[allgivenover]

I'm not sure why I'm being quoted and responded too about how creepers in the online world be creepin' and how often it happens. I'm not addressing that. It happens. I'm only addressing the ridiculous notion that you're going to land in jail portraying underage sex in your writing, even with another consenting adult. It's not going to happen.

 

Edit: And that you should automatically age up your characters in the case that it might happen. This is ridiculous and unnecessary.

[Tiergan]

Alright, if it pleases folks, I have crossed out the entire section about 'You can potentially get in trouble for this if you're two adults writing sexual RP involving a minor' and simply replaced it with the quotes I felt best represented my feelings on the whole matter.

 

At the end of the day, I'm not out to sit and define whether or not books of literary value should be considered child porn just because they depict a minor in a sexual situation. I'm here to point out there are inherent problems in RPing sexually active minors, the least of which is normalizing and enabling something that is no bueno.

[Faye]

Regardless of whether it can be criminalized, the ages of minors are sometimes raised from their original values to 18+ in some works of fiction to avoid negative scrutiny. It's not always so much a matter of legality as it is publishers want a product that will sell and not get them a ton of backlash.

[Marisa]

I can definitely see how it would make some people uncomfortable. As someone who roleplays a minor myself, though, I like to handle it all in-character. Maybe it's because I have the benefit of being somebody who's well-armed and living in a safe neighborhood, but I'm never really worried about the person on the other end, even if their character is unsettling. 

 

Ryoko has had some strong advances come her way. It's usually not their fault, they don't know she's 14 OOC. And even IC, it's probably hard to tell the age of a young Miqo'te girl. Whether they know or not, Ryoko fends off their advances all the same. She's got a reputation to maintain as a priestess, after all. Even if they're the 'disturbingly persistent' type, I take it all IC. I have to imagine that pedophiles and perverts exist in Eorzea and would prey on girls like her, and while I would never expect another person to be as calm about it as I am, for me it's just part of the experience. 

 

I also learned back in WoW that sending the reply 

"<<< is a dude" 

will almost immediately end all attempts at unsolicited ERP. Though it's far more fun to do the whole "I take off my robe and wizard hat!" routine.

[Saefinn]

Finally, and this is a sort of a broader topic but it's related and endlessly amusing for me, the vast majority of RPers are usually fine with participating in the following types of RP (especially when their character is the target, who doesn't love playing a victim now and then?):

 

Torture.

Kidnapping.

Murder.

Mutilation.

Theft.

Rape (so so very common in back-story).

Violent conflict resolution.

 

But violate some arbitrary number and idea about age of consent? Suddenly you are crossing the line. I'm not saying go out and have a fun time ERPing with underage characters, I'm just saying it's silly to draw the line here after everything else the average RPer is ok with. Are there people out there that are only doing this sort of thing to get their rocks off? Of course, and you'd rightfully avoid them. But are there people who are using this to tell a compelling story? Probably not very often, but it's possible. I don't consider anything off limits in my writing, and as my roleplaying is largely an extension of that I don't consider anything in roleplay off limits.

 

I would say it's a difficult one. I would say if it's for characterisation and plot devices and something a character may or may not do, then I see it as okay. I mean these are things authors will write about, because there are topics that are mature, sensitive and shocking, but also things that happen. Of course, I would prolly suggest in a world like Eorzea, the age of consent is lower, given the kind of time period the game is set in. Also bear in mind the age of consent in different parts of the world is different, can be 18, 16 or even sometimes 14 and can even get lower than that, but I can understand the lower the number the more likely somebody's going to have moral issues.

 

If you're getting off on ERP with an IC minor and are doing so because they're playing an IC minor, that's where I would find it a problem. Likewise if I was getting off on a torture scene. I think character relationships should happen because they naturally happen, but then I RP for the sake of developing characters and developing a story line and not to actively seek IC relationships or ERP, though my character did get into a relationship, but they connected really well. Only time I've done it and they were right for each other.

 

Given my character has tortured, I've done it because whilst he is very kind and can be very sweet, he is very protective and grew up in some of the much more darker sides of piracy, so it would be something he would do and was tasked to do in the past, so if you really get on his bad side, then he will be merciless, but luckily that will only happen if you're a horribly corrupt bastard who hurts and exploits others or if you threaten the safety of his crew or loved ones. Do I get off on it when I have RP'd torture? No. To me, it's a dramatic device in a story involving my characters.

 

I think that's where the line needs to be drawn. Also, on more mature themes I feel a warning label is needed. For instance, I stuck a warning label on RP where we tortured a very corrupt Maelstrom officer for information, so those who were uncomfortable, didn't need to get involved.

 

I would also say bear in mind that what your character is like morally will affect people's opinions, so if you're shagging a 12 year old Lala, you will probably get a lot of flack, if you're intending to play the character as a scumbag that does that, but not going out to ERP it and are doing so for the sake of making a character people hate and something that makes people uncomfortable, then kudos for having the balls to do so. It is still a topic that people are still offended by, so like any sensitive topic with RP, I would again, stick a warning label on it.

[Blue]

All so very true, both for IC minors as OOC minors. A former member of our RP LS, a minor, has engaged in ERP activity (as discovered by a very awkward MT), despite him having read our LS rules which include to keep away from ERP for minor players.

 

We did not kick him, but we had a serious talk with this person (him, me and our co-leader), in which we gave lengthy explanations of the kind of trouble he could put himself, his partner, as well as our linkshell by doing that (because, yes, if parents catch their minor kid doing this kind of stuff they have every right to look up his friends and guildies and take legal actions on its leaders, at least in my country).

 

We made it clear to him that if he still insisted on taking part to this activities at his minor age, we did not want to be put at risk. He stayed, so I think he stopped ERPing at least until he is 18.

 

Now, I do not know the person he ERPd with (we got his/her name to have a talk, but they never replied to our private messages, despite the civil and polite tone we used), but I got the impression this gal or guy-rping-gal was the one who nudged and pressed our minor LS member to get things going. I do not mean to judge the person himself, but I'd like to ask ERPing players to be careful and considerate of their partners' real age. Do not just assume you are ERPing with an adult just because they are consentient, because even kids are likely to agree to RP just because, "hey, we're a screen apart. It can't be bad." It can be bad if their parents find out and decide to make a big deal out of it, and you are not in the position to decide for them when their kid is ready to partake to this kind of stuff.

 

Be careful of who you are ERPing with, and don't take it too lightly! It's the key to a civil and happy gaming experience.

[SM Nick]

As of this post, I will only be a minor for around 2-3 months, so I have a question: Does a kiss count as sexually-charged? I personally think it should be ok if a character kisses another, be it on a cheek or on the lips. To me that does not count as a sexual offenses or porn.

[Gaspard]

Finally, and this is a sort of a broader topic but it's related and endlessly amusing for me, the vast majority of RPers are usually fine with participating in the following types of RP (especially when their character is the target, who doesn't love playing a victim now and then?):

 

Torture.

Kidnapping.

Murder.

Mutilation.

Theft.

Rape (so so very common in back-story).

Violent conflict resolution.

 

But violate some arbitrary number and idea about age of consent? Suddenly you are crossing the line. I'm not saying go out and have a fun time ERPing with underage characters, I'm just saying it's silly to draw the line here after everything else the average RPer is ok with. Are there people out there that are only doing this sort of thing to get their rocks off? Of course, and you'd rightfully avoid them. But are there people who are using this to tell a compelling story? Probably not very often, but it's possible. I don't consider anything off limits in my writing, and as my roleplaying is largely an extension of that I don't consider anything in roleplay off limits.

 

 

Within storytelling, or entertainment in general, people tend to be drawn towards the darker things in life. Even if you wind back to the times of shakespeare, everything revolved around betrayal, lust, and the likes. For more common-day examples, just take a look at what type of shows are trending. Hannibal, Dexter. Movies that fall under the 'revenge flick' category such as 'Law abiding Citizen' or the recent 'John Wick', All revolve around Characters doing what we normally do not, and we find ourselves compelled by these stories.

 

However,

 

What all of these stay clear from, is sexual tension / attraction to minors, Unless it's depicted as what it is. A gruesome, disgusting and stomach churning event. And that is in 'writing' alone, without the 'dynamic' component of Roleplaying.

 

 

 

Roleplaying as such will always be a dynamic thing. It involves interaction, not just mere writing/storytelling. You actively work with others by doing a sort of give/take feedback circle, to weave the story. Now, the moment you RP material with a minor that is sexually loaded, all you need to do is strip away the tag of 'RP' and what you're essentially doing is texting eachother sexually arousing material. Any Lawyer can have a field day with that, rightfully so.

 

Now, if both are of age and doing a plot involving minors, that 'is' up to them, but you still may find yourself in that 'child-pornography' nieche, because you're pushing boundaries hard there. Can you be prosecuted for it? Probably not. However, in my personal opinion it 'is' disgusting, and if you try to brush it off with 'It's RP so everything goes' you clearly do not understand the social dynamic behind roleplay and the inevitable link between player and character.

 

I may be alone in this, but when it comes to roleplaying I consider children off-limits. Simply because roleplaying is 'not' just this harmless form of storytelling, as it is far too dynamic for that. I go by the general rule of thumb 'you can do anything, aslong adults are involved/adult characters are involved.', Child characters however are entirely out of question.

[Mae]

As of this post, I will only be a minor for around 2-3 months, so I have a question: Does a kiss count as sexually-charged? I personally think it should be ok if a character kisses another, be it on a cheek or on the lips. To me that does not count as a sexual offenses or porn.

Kissing is usually fine -- in a legal sense, as long as it's above the jawline and there's no tongue, it's not typically considered an act of sex. It can be looked down upon by society/cultural norms, but that's about it.

[Zhavi]

This debate kinda makes me think of Karen Marie Moning's (she writes varying levels of smut, with her more recent books focusing more on story over smut, but still.... yeah, people read it for the romance/smut) response to the outcry over her latest series, featuring a 14 year old protagonist. When asked, she said that yes, the character will end up having steamy sex with one of the immortal hunks in the story before she turns 18. The outcry was immediate and vicious, to which she replied (and I am very loosely paraphrasing): teenagers have sex. Get over it.

 

Yeah, I did see the discussion about literary value in novels over smut written between two individuals earlier, but there is no need for things to necessarily be explicit or venture into the whole legality thing. I, for one, think it is much more tasteful for it to be addressed as growth for the character, rather than always having to be some grotesque caricature of passion for the sole purpose of avoiding, as saefinn put it, an idea about the age of consent.

 

I do remember discussing, with a rp partner on another site, the prospect of tossing our two male teenage characters (though, mine is 19 and hers .... 17? I think?) into a situation with a prostitute, where the scene planned would be so awkward and horrific in its embarrassing qualities that others would cringe out of reading it (with the prostitute in question being a horror in her own right, aesthetically speaking :3 ).

 

Which is, to me, the main fun I have writing teenagers: awkward, awful, embarrassing. Complete with, you know, never being able to maintain eye contact with the other person ever again. And in that there isn't any need to be explicit. But it does build character, and it is possible to be tasteful and focus on the characters/plot over . . . using the scene as a way to get your rocks off. Which I am not advocating.

 

Then again, like I've said before, I really like writing about imperfections. I was never one for perfect romances, anyways, and youth gives you that chance to evoke a sense of gawkiness and shame that is, somehow, permissible and forgivable while being occasionally endearing (assuming you manage to avoid the whole annoying twat thing, of which I have run afoul more than once).

 

...but who am I kidding. I just want people to remember something particularly embarrassing about their teenage years and cringe away from the writing in acute self-loathing. <3

[Warren Castille]

As of this post, I will only be a minor for around 2-3 months, so I have a question: Does a kiss count as sexually-charged? I personally think it should be ok if a character kisses another, be it on a cheek or on the lips. To me that does not count as a sexual offenses or porn.

 

I've already alerted the authorities. Yer' doomed, kiddo!

 

I'm surprised there's this much conversation about the topic. Don't diddle kids, and if you must diddle, diddle privately, with someone you know won't think you're just escapisming your pedo urges. I think we can all agree kid-diddling is wrong.

 

Diddle.

 

 

Diddle.

 

[Tiergan]

I am a lot more understanding of two people playing teenaged characters actually, genuinely exploring the awkward clusterfuck that is teenage sexuality even if one is 19 and the other is 17. There's so much potential for hilarious storytelling.

 

The thing I am more specifically talking about are characters where there is an obvious age gap and we have older characters pursuing ones that are much younger - like a 25 year old hitting on a 15 year old or a 16 year old trying to jump on the bones of a 27 year old.

 

In terms of the argument that "We do so much worse things like murder, torture, rape, etc in RP!"

 

Those are all horrible things that we RP as horrible things played for drama and conflict. They also usually happen to adult characters. When they happen to child characters, the horror and impact of it is seen as even worse.

 

No one can tell me that the dude trying to hit on my friend's young miqo'te teen or my 15 year old lalafell is trying to RP a child-adult romance for the horror and narrative of it. Or that teenaged characters trying to get into Tiergan's pantaloons are doing it as a horrible thing played for drama and conflict. They're usually thinking that they can initiate it the same way as they would any other RP romance and move it along like any other RP relationship.

 

I know we let a lot of things slide as RPers for story-purposes, but normalizing an adult-child romantic relationship and its fetishization is creepy, enabling of really dangerous behavior, and should just not be one of those things we just let happen, guys.

 

Call it inciting a witchhunt if you will. At the very least, I shouldn't have to put a "No ERP" tag on my 15 year old character just to avoid it.

 

EDIT: Most awkward and hilarious typo ever. :V

[Warren Castille]

I don't think any particular topic is off-limits for writing/roleplay, but I do think things need to be handled tastefully and maturely. It's difficult enough to get people to acknowledge lalafell can have non-lalafell partners. Tacking the Minor tag on top of it is... Well, yeah. That'd send up warning signs for sure, coming from a stranger.

[Zhavi]

 

No one can tell me that the dude trying to hit on my friend's young miqo'te teen or my 15 year old lalafell is trying to RP a child-adult romance for the horror and narrative of it. Or that teenaged characters trying to get into Tiergan's pantaloons are doing it as a horrible thing played for drama and conflict. They're usually thinking that they can initiate it the same way as they would any other RP romance and move it along like any other RP relationship.

 

I know we let a lot of things slide as RPers for story-purposes, but normalizing an adult-child romantic relationship and its fertilization is creepy, enabling of really dangerous behavior, and should just not be one of those things we just let happen, guys.

 

Call it inciting a witchhunt if you will. At the very least, I shouldn't have to put a "No ERP" tag on my 15 year old character just to avoid it.

 

I think, then, that there is an acknowledged difference between those players engaging in storytelling, and those engaging in predatory or . . .hmm, socially unacceptable behavior that promotes victimization. In which case, I don't think anyone in the thread is encouraging the ooc side of things where people do ic things for personal ooc reasons (ie, pushing a character to do something not because it's something the character would do, but because the player wants it to happen no matter what); none of that is okay, in my book, because real people wind up getting hurt or victimized.

 

But, yes, there are some rpers who do push boundaries and write questionable material either to push themselves or try out some form of writing (after all, there are plenty of rpers who use rp as a means to practice in the hopes of one day writing something more serious). I agree that they're more likely a minority, however, and honestly I wouldn't be comfortable writing really questionable stuff with people outside of people I've rped with for a long time and have gotten to know oocly for just that reason -- I don't want it to be used as a means of, well, getting someone off.

 

But, to me, there is a level of squeamishness that I tend to avoid no matter the age of the character, where things go from legitimate attempt to use situation to further story or character development to sheer gratuity. At that point (and I agree, the threshold is lower the younger the character is), to me, it is pointless to write because it has utterly no point beyond the gratuity, and that's where things get dangerous.

 

But, all of that said, everyone's level of comfort is different, and, you know, the point of a community is to be able to air your opinions -- especially where you fear something is going on that is detrimental to the community. So, I don't think you should feel like people think you're inciting a witchhunt. You're genuinely concerned, and should be applauded for speaking up on a matter you feel is important.

 

(and, just to be clear on my own end, I'm speaking from the angle of emotionally and physically immature characters (children or teenagers) being written by two adults. I tend to avoid writing anything really awful with people I know are young because there is (usually!) mental and emotional immaturity, and I do believe some things should wait. I know a young man who lied on another site I am on about his age in order to be allowed in, as there is an age limit of 16. While we forbade him to participate in anything questionable until he turned 18, stuff happened as it so often does. He was only 14 or 15 when he joined, and unfortunately he got taken advantage of by a 19 year old girl who, though the age difference wasn't that great, still manipulated and hurt him and some other of our male writers -- unbeknownst to the staff, this kid was getting threats from other guys on site to stay away from her, and it was just this huge cluster. As he told me, he thought he was old enough/mature enough to handle it -- and he wasn't. That's the problem, and where predation becomes such a huge deal)

[Kellach Woods]

Just wanted to say that you really can't expect people to not pursue your character romantically or sexually just because he or she is a Lalafell, especially considering how ridiculously randy Lalafell NPCs are in-game.

You'd think Lalas were rabbits considering how bad they can get.

 

Fishing is the lewdest profession, and they involve lalas all the way through.

 

Anyone who's seen my chronicled journey throughout the wonders of leveling up to 50 FSH knows fully well just how bad it gets. Most of it is centered around Lalas being randy as fuck.

 

* * *

 

Personal disclaimer, I know where Z's coming from with the whole ERPin' in times where it would land peeps in trouble. Or postin' some saucy fanfiction.

 

That being said, I know a friend who'll ask for the IRL age of the person that they're about to engage in EPIC ROLE PLAY (that's what ERP stands for, right?) They refuse to disclose/are underage? Automatic fade to black. Personally, I might have done stupid shit before but I admire her for that stand and am definitely on board with doing it myself.

 

Did the person what was about doing the nasty while underage do it before? Most likely. However, whether or not they did before has no standing on what you think about this issue, and if you accept/refuse to do so it is entirely your choice. Emphasis entirely because I feel it's necessary to state that your comfort > their ERPin'.