How loosely do you play with the lore?

[Gegenji]

This is something that came to my mind after my second RP session. I'm playing a Lalafell from Doma, and it raised an eyebrow or two. As such, I felt it necessary to update my character's background to mention that his family immigrated to Doma instead of being pure natives.

 

On top of that, I completely blanked on the bar on Domans in Ul'dah - where little Chachanji is staying! - and again found myself fumbling for an answer. I ended up weakly settling on Momodi covering for him, since he traveled to the city as an adventurer before the razing of Doma.

 

Is this a common thing I'll need to worry about? Or do some people cling to lore-synergy less... strictly, I suppose is the term I would use? I know I can't please everyone, but I'd like to make as few snafus as possible. :blush:

[Faye]

There will always be lore-nazis. I wouldn't sweat it. Do what you want with your character!  You're right that you can't please everyone. People will always disagree, so I'd say the balance is making your character lore-friendly enough that there are enough people who do agree to give you a pool of potential RP partners large enough for your tastes. Also, there's nothing wrong with playing a Doman! There are quite a few I've run into, and there's even an FC for Doman characters. If you got in touch with them, I'm sure they could help explain more of the Doman lore.

[Warren Castille]

I think the "issue" is with the timeline regarding Doma. Prior to the razing of Doma, it was already Garlean-controlled. As such, immigration from the nation would be tantamount to treason! I think, anyway. Someone get Sounsyy in here. HEY SOUNSYY. SOUNSYY WE HAVE LORE QUESTIONS

 

Also, sorry for vanishing on you last night. I warned you about the rum.

[Gegenji]

Thanks for the prompt responses! I'm all new and stuff, so I want to avoid stepping on as many toes as possible while I get used to everything. :blush:

 

Also, there's nothing wrong with playing a Doman! There are quite a few I've run into, and there's even an FC for Doman characters. If you got in touch with them, I'm sure they could help explain more of the Doman lore.

That's good to hear! I'm might have to look them up. I'm still FC-less as I get little Chacha some levels and RP experience under his belt.

 

I think the "issue" is with the timeline regarding Doma. Prior to the razing of Doma, it was already Garlean-controlled. As such, immigration from the nation would be tantamount to treason! I think, anyway.

I think it's less "immigration" as "ran away from home" with Chacha and his brother, if that makes any difference. Gogo left to pursue knowledge and military strategy and the like, Chacha left to be a "hero"/adventurer. Man... am I actually playing two illegal immigrants!? :surprise:

 

Also, sorry for vanishing on you last night. I warned you about the rum.

Oh, no worries about that! I just took a goofy picture of Chacha making a face at you and then went back to leveling. It's actually in the screenshot thread, if you haven't seen it yet!

[Xenedra]

Just because we haven't seen any Lalafell from Doma doesn't mean necessarily mean there aren't any. Lack of evidence is not proof, so I wouldn't sweat that. Also I don't think the Domans are banned from Ul'dah, they just weren't allowed to move as a huge refugee group into the city. You know Ul'dah, if you have money you can have anything . If your character can pay his way, I'm sure no one would bat an eyelash at him being there.

[Warren Castille]

Well I'm not terribly sure how "illegal" it is. The Domans consider themselves Doman, after all, and are even welcomed by the Scions in the story without being accosted for being Garlean. It's an interesting state of affairs given we know they were under imperial control, to say the least.

 

Don't let folks ruffle your feathers. If you need to allude to it in the future, though, you can always "cop out" and mention you're not front around here (wherever here happens to be) and see if anyone pursues the topic.

 

Also, pictures of Warren in the wild are pretty rare. He's usually brooding in his castle.

[Kage]

I haven't started the ninja line but from what I could tell people were saying that the ninja job quest is given by Domans who left before the razing while Doma is under garlean rule. Same thing could be said for Chacha

[Gegenji]

Man, I'd like to check that out, but it's still an iffy prospect trying to level a Rogue right now... Would be nice if true, though! I'll have to keep an eye on it once I get to that point - either on Chacha or his older brother.

[Hyakki]

Hozan mentions that that foreign merchants had an interest in Doman produce. That the Domans may have traded with Eorzea in the past wouldn't be that great of a lore stretch.

 

 

I have screenshots of every bit of dialogue said by or concerning Domans and Doma to date, but have yet to compile it into something easy to read. It would help clear up lore discrepancies

 

 

Also I believe it was mentioned in another thread that Eorzea had traded with the Empire prior to the campaign against Eorzea, unfortunately I can't remember what thread stated this.

 

Perhaps a possible backstory for Gegenji could be that he comes from a family of merchants. His family enjoyed Doma so much they eventually settled there permanently.

 

As for the bar on Domans in Ul'dah, I would think of it as the way the Ala Mhigans are viewed. The Ala Mhigans are shunned but they still have a presence in Eorzea. Many settled in Little Ala Mhigo but others remained in Ul'dah, surely not all Domans were content to stay in Mor Dhona. As a Lalafell, you may be able to fly under the radar and walk about freely without discrimination, only raising suspicions if people notice you act differently than the locals.

 

Also, it is stated that there are still groups leaving Doma by sea. (Or this may have been alluding to the arrival of Oboro's group)

 

 

 

I'm not in the Doman FC myself but I can let them know if you're interested, also if you would like, I can invite you to our linkshell. I would be happy to help you with PvE things or RP some time.

 

(Edited some things because they were confusing and I got ahead of myself when typing them >< )

[Gegenji]

Perhaps a possible backstory for Gegenji could be that he comes from a family of merchants. His family enjoyed Doma so much they eventually settled there permanently.

That's basically how it is in my head-canon. The Gegenjis went to Doma to profit off their exotic wares and stuck around.

 

And that whole "flying under the radar" thing actually is what caused the incident that lead to this thread, haha. Someone asked if he was a local and he responded "Doman" without thinking. Led to a bit of a confrontation, haha.

[Sounsyy]

Someone get Sounsyy in here. HEY SOUNSYY. SOUNSYY WE HAVE LORE QUESTIONS

 

<_<

 

/appears with a thumpidy thump thump rabbit on head.

 

Ahem! Prior to the razing of Doma, the city-state was under Imperial occupation. However, this doesn't necessarily mean escape, migration, or defection/resistance are out of the question. Meaning, we have some lore instances where Far Eastern (see: Othardian) goods, exports, etc still come to Eorzea. Also the Uma Bugyo shows up pre-Yugiri. Could this just be a whoopsie on SE's part? Maybe, but the possibility that Limsa Lominsa and Ul'dah still engage in trade with Garlean controlled territories is very real and very difficult to ignore as there are many instances of it occurring.

 

That said, no one should be giving you flak for 1) being a Doman Lalafell or 2) being a Doman in Ul'dah.

 

While the official ruling of the Syndicate was that they would not support Doman Refugees, that does not mean they were banned from the city. Officially, the Doman's took up residence in Revenant's Toll in Mor Dhona, but once there, I'm sure Domans wishing to be adventurers or those who wish to learn a select trade would be able to venture to other nations in Eorzea to do such. And point of fact, the Ninja storyline surrounds Domans who are operating in Vylbrand of all places, which is very far from Revenant's Toll. (Limsa also denied Domans sanctuary by the way, so...)

 

 

As for the Lalafell thing... don't let it get to you. People are dumb. I get weird looks sometimes for playing an Ala Mhigan Miqo'te, despite one of Ala Mhigo's greatest champions in lore being a Miqo'te. To date, there is not a single place in Hydaelyn that has been home to only one race. And Doma is absolutely no exception! Here's proof:

 

Meet Yamimi Farwalker, a Lalafellin merchant hailing from the Far East. She makes an appearance in the quest, "Remember Me This Moonfire Faire."

 

A thousand pities I couldn't meet Master Haermaga. My customer thought the world of him. Tis for the boy's sake I wrote the good master and made the long journey to Limsa Lominsa... ...In the last moon of his life, the boy asked me about the Far East. He had dreamed of adventuring there, I think, him and Master Haermaga together.

 

 

 

My advice, avoid these so called "Lore-Nazis" who are harassing you, cuz they don't know much lore. With the right combination of lore knowledge and common sense, most anything is possible. Hope this helps! ^^ Light the signal if you have more questions!

 

/flies away in a hot air balloon filled with bullies' hopes, dreams, and aspirations.

/wait 5

/gets nowhere.

[Mae]

For me, it depends on what point of lore we're dealing with. 

When the game hands me a hard "This is how it is, no exceptions", I take it as it is. Like Purebred Garleans being genetically unable to use aether. Devs have specifically stated this to be, so that's just how it is.

 

When it's something that could be taken as ambiguous, for example like exactly how rare the Echo is, I look at various things. Is there evidence that suggests one thing? Is there evidence that suggests something different? What is the opinions of others, and how solid is their reasoning? From there I'll make a theory and run with it, though some things (like how rare the Echo is), I'll keep to myself because I know not everyone will accept it. It's a judgement call, really.

 

Then there's other things where my line of logic goes "This is a minor thing, it makes sense when compared to the Real-World equivalents of the setting, and there is nothing in the game or from the Devs that say that this wouldn't exist, so until something is released that specifically says that this thing cannot exist, I'll RP it exists". Like coffee. While there is no icon in the game for coffee, the concept is benign enough that only the most strict and bitter lore-nazi's are going to pitch a fit over it. If in a later patch/expansion something pops up that says "Coffee is being introduced as a new import from X-region", then my characters have been drinking what amounts to be a coffee substitute all this time.

[Gegenji]

My advice, avoid these so called "Lore-Nazis" who are harassing you, cuz they don't know much lore. With the right combination of lore knowledge and common sense, most anything is possible. Hope this helps! ^^ Light the signal if you have more questions!

All great information indeed! Hopefully it'll be useful for others just as much as it has been for me. I was scrambling trying to make my story fit better and driving myself a little nutty, haha. I do like some of the clarifications that came from it (What happened to the Gegenjis after the razing, something I had put off to decide on until later), but it's nice to know that I wasn't causing the major roleplay faux pas I thought I was. :blush:

[TheWizard]

The growing Doman FC mentioned is Iroha listed here http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=8798&pid=121896

 

I probably won't be on until later tonight but I will keep a lookout for you, if you join the LS beforehand that will certainly make it easier to find you.

[Kage]

Honestly the biggest faux pas were people insisting Sultansworn are only in a certain area and that the Quicksand was only for adventurers. You haven't done anything wrong :3

[Maril]

I don't tend to go out and "break" the lore, I am not really a fan of the idea that if I think something is a cool idea, I can just go out and do that without regard for the continuity and consistency in the world. So you wouldn't see me invent a new type of magic. But I do go in and study the lore when I have an idea and see how bendable it is, or if there's a hoop or even a gap. Depending on what I find, I may scrap or go ahead with an idea. It's a standard I keep myself to, and sure it's something I like to see other people do too - and I expect that of my FC, but they all know/agree with that. Otherwise it's nothing I force on people, but I do have my own steps to get out of RP I feel is too far away from what I can get involved in, and still keep to my standard. That doesn't make everyone who doesn't stick to it a baddie, I just know when it's time to go before things get too painful for everyone involved - It's generally a mutual waste of time if RP styles don't mix, imo. 

 

I've always disliked it when someone calls others a lore-nazi or a tight elitist and similar, because I often find that it's simply people akin to myself who gets up being labelled exactly because we sometimes pull ourselves out of things. I'm sure there are bullies out there who will whisper you for 2 months about how you cant do this and that, it just sucks to be put into the same box with them when you're not like that yourself (even if you can see that you're not and all of that, it's the stigma in it really). 

 

In your case, I'd probably have quirked an eyebrow and started googling/asking my geeks about stuff cause I'd be curious. 

 

*puts two gil in a box*

[Gegenji]

I just want to clarify a point - I'm more curious about how much people are willing to bend the lore than try to say one is better than the other.

 

After all, there's horrible extremes existent in both directions. Complete disregard to the set lore serves as counterpoint those who cannot roleplay their character without knowing precisely from the lore how many tongs an Ul'dahnian salad fork has. Conversely, some willingness to bend the lore can allow for just as much creativity as using what limited lore resources are available to create a lore-appropriate character!

 

It was merely the situation of "a Lalafell from Doma" that had questions raised and brought the topic of discussion to my mind. And had me a bit worried about where the folks I might be RPing with would stand on such an issue. After all, this is a group effort and I want to make to make the experience as comfortable as possible for those I RP with. :blush:

[Erik Mynhier]

I work on two principles when it come to going outside the door, or bending the lore.

 

1. It has not been expressly forbidden by the lore.

2. The bending, usually into the area of guessing future, is done with an educated guess.

 

 

Example: Since beta I have laid it out that Erik is rlated to and therefor on the path to become a DRK. I did this by keeping the back story as general as possible. His father was a DRK, but I never gave specifics as to how he became one. The only skill I claimed was the "Dark Blade Technique" again never once claiming anything specific. So by that I bent the lore of the time as there was no DRK. Also logic dictated that with the popularity as well as how common it is in most FF games, I made an educated guess that sooner or later, DRK would be added.

 

 

It is a delicate thing bending the lore, but it can be done.

[Cliodhna Eoghan]

I try not to bend lore too hard but if there's something I'm not sure about I wanna do with Clio; I tend to just ask Erik first if it's a good idea or not.

[Delilah Scythewood]

I go with a mixture of common sense, solid reasoning, and the lore that has been provided. Unlike MMOs like WoW where there's novels, series upon series worth of prior information, we only have what's in other FF games that seems to adhere. But even then not EVERYTHING is the same soooo...

 

In a game like this, I don't think one can really earn the title of a 'lore enthusiast' or 'lore nazi'. Save maybe Sounsyy but she's not a nazii. You know what what I mean

[Aife]

The simple fact is, at this point in time on the topic of Doma, we don't have a lot of information. Lacey is an ex Garlean Shinobi who was trained by the Empire in Doma. This was my backstory for her about three months before the release of 2.4 and I had issues with Doman role players who insisted that a non-Doman wouldn't be trained as a ninja. I saw holes in the lore and it seemed viable to me that this could occur (and boy did 2.4 prove me right). It seems highly likely to me that there are lalafell in Othard since you see them in the Garlean Empire's army. If it's likely, I see no issue why it shouldn't be allowed. 

At the end of the day it's your character, no one elses. Role play what makes you happy. There's always going to someone who wants to argue with you about lore but no one can have clear cut answers about a lot of things about Doma at this point in time.

[Sounsyy]

In a game like this, I don't think one can really earn the title of a 'lore enthusiast' or 'lore nazi'. Save maybe Sounsyy but she's not a nazii. You know what what I mean

 

I'm proud to be apart of the group of XIV's loremongers. There's a few of us tho, more than most expect I think. ^^ But yeah, my sorta mantra is that I would much rather research lore to prove something is possible for someone, than cite one piece of lore saying it probably isn't. The lore may not be as accessible as possible, but it is there, and in good supply.

[Miryn]

I'm going through a similar dance of eggshell-stepping as I prep Miryn's backstory as an ex-Ishgardian knight. There's a good pool of Ishgard lore to fish from with the Coerthas side quests and the recent main scenario stuff that I feel comfortable playing around with it, but who knows what Heavensward will bring. There's a good chance her background will contradict something, and I'm steeling myself for it.

 

Mainly, I am unsure how villainous the Dravanians actually are, and I'm hesitant to take Miryn's personal plot in the direction I have in mind until I find out. I'm just hoping right now I can keep her situation vague enough to suit any possible RP partners, at least until expac.

[ArmachiA]

I have two rules:

 

1. Bend, never break. This lore is crazy it doesn't need to be broken so you can be the greatest mary sue who ever lived.

 

2. When you see something in lore that's supposed to be rare (Sephie, Echo, Allagan Eyes, Lady Iceheart) that doesn't mean you get to do that either. It's rare for a reason.

 

other than that. I dun care.

[Raelas]

My advice, avoid these so called "Lore-Nazis" who are harassing you, cuz they don't know much lore. With the right combination of lore knowledge and common sense, most anything is possible. Hope this helps! ^^ Light the signal if you have more questions!

All great information indeed! Hopefully it'll be useful for others just as much as it has been for me. I was scrambling trying to make my story fit better and driving myself a little nutty, haha. I do like some of the clarifications that came from it (What happened to the Gegenjis after the razing, something I had put off to decide on until later), but it's nice to know that I wasn't causing the major roleplay faux pas I thought I was. :blush:

 

Its you! I defended you IC (and OOC) because I'd had this very conversation with Sounsyy a while back (I doubt she remembers... she only remembers the lap dance! Awww Yisss!).

 

I wasn't about to stand there and let someone first bully you IC and then try to bully you OOC also. Believe or not, i get a lot of this nonsense for playing the character i play but... they can firmly hold that giant 'L' to their chest while i have my fun!

 

Hope you enjoyed your first experience of RP! Hope to see you more!!