2.5 SPOILER THREAD (Do not enter unless you have completed 2.5 Story!)

[Havoc Snow]

It's already been stated but I'll just elaborate on it a little. It is very likely that Godbert didn't veto the Doman refugees out of malice intent, but because it was for a greater good (both for Ul'dah and for them). Current Ul'dah is wracked with criminal activity from the Ala Mhigan refugees who feel entitled, there is a massive class divide in their society between Upper Class, Lower Class, and Refugees, adding more refugees would only cause further divide and perhaps a secondary refugee class as the Ala Mhigan and Doman fought for scraps.

 

In essence, life for the Domans in Ul'dah could have possibly been worse than life under the rule of Garlemald back in Othard, and Godbert spared them that with their vote hoping that they would find better shelter elsewhere. Ul'dah is falling apart currently, they can't even maintain their current population of refugees, taking on more would have likely caused the city to just crumble.

[LiveVoltage]

I dont think that would paint Godbert in a good light though. Most of the Syndicate were of the same mind with Godbert on the fact that it would be too much pressure on Ul'dah to take in more refugees. On the other hand, if he is indeed helping fund the construction of 'More Donughts'  (see what I did there?) then that would be a good redeeming fact that he had planned this all out way in advance of everyone. I dont think that is the case though because Rowena pretty much runs the Doughnut town with what resources they have.

 

IMO, Godbert made a tough decision. Sacraficing Ul'dah for Refugees or keep the domans out. He probably chose to veto though because he planned ahead of time that the people in Mor Dhona would take them in, but he did choose a tough call in the end that was kind of uncharacteristic of him, but I think his decision was very neutral. There are too many factors that make it impossible to call it right or wrong.

[Havoc Snow]

I think people are looking at things the wrong way. They see the fact that the Doman were turned away as being wrong or cruel, it's really not. Imagine for a moment if you lived in a three bedroom house and had six children you had to put a roof over and feed every day and you were already stretched thin trying to just manage that. Now imagine if some homeless guy asked if he could come live with you and eat your food, and in return he would mow your lawn or wash your windows. Is it cruel or wrong of you to deny him?

[Sounsyy]

Ul'dah is falling apart currently, they can't even maintain their current population of refugees, taking on more would have likely caused the city to just crumble.

 

Sorry, but Ul'dah being under any monetary strain makes me think of this appropriate comic:

 

 

 

Is it the Syndicate's right to do with their money as they please? Absolutely. However, the Syndicate's choice of how to handle their own money is what's causing unrest in Ul'dah, not the lack of money in the Sultanate. Refugees, unless exploited, equate to a loss of profit. The Immortal Flames, which the Syndicate has been trying to abolish along with Raubahn (another Ala Mhigan), also equate to a loss of profit. Helping in the affairs of other nations, loss of profit.

[Havoc Snow]

Ul'dah is falling apart currently, they can't even maintain their current population of refugees, taking on more would have likely caused the city to just crumble.

 

Sorry, but Ul'dah being under any monetary strain makes me think of this appropriate comic:

 

 

 

Is it the Syndicate's right to do with their money as they please? Absolutely. However, the Syndicate's choice of how to handle their own money is what's causing unrest in Ul'dah, not the lack of money in the Sultanate. Refugees, unless exploited, equate to a loss of profit. The Immortal Flames, which the Syndicate has been trying to abolish along with Raubahn (another Ala Mhigan), also equate to a loss of profit. Helping in the affairs of other nations, loss of profit.

I never said it was monetary strain, the issues are political which is an entirely different and far more volatile problem.

[LiveVoltage]

I think it's a mixture of both, since money and politics go hand-in-hand with each other. I would go so far to say that politics 'is' business, at least for the people of Ul'dah.

[Kellach Woods]

Again.

 

We don't even know if it's canon that Godbert was there or not since there's two versions of the cutscene.

[Warren Castille]

So forgive me if I overlooked this, but is no one going to comment on the fact that Allagan Techno-lich is now a thing?

[Kellach Woods]

Wat.

 

If it's a thing that happened in a raid I likely wouldn't know it.

[Warren Castille]

Wat.

 

If it's a thing that happened in a raid I likely wouldn't know it.

 

CT weekly. It's, um... Well, it's certainly a thing.

[Steel Wolf]

Yea, that's pretty much what he's referring to. The Allagan were into some shiiii....

 

It's a bit sad that the whole "future world tech is naughty bad!" trope is being swung about here, but at the same time the advances that have been made in Magitek has been exclusively military in nature. If things move into the medical field, we could see some interesting things.

 

...or as a result see some patently ridiculous character ideas.

[LiveVoltage]

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Garlemald's capital turned out to be some high tech future city powered by Magitech. There is some canon lore that says Magitech has made it's way into the civilian field a little. Would actually be a nice change though to see that.

[Dravus]

Eorzea would certainly benefit from better technology. I do hope we see more of it in the future - it'd be great to be able to ride a train!

[Sounsyy]

I never said it was monetary strain, the issues are political which is an entirely different and far more volatile problem.

 

You never said, but watch the cutscene. The Syndicate's excuse is that they can't afford to house another set of refugees. It'd be too much of a monetary burden on them and that even the Sultanate's coffers were not infinite. Which brings me back to the comic I posted, cuz that excuse is pretty bullshit. Godbert's building a damn theme park out of pocket, and he's only the sixth richest one sitting at that table.

 

 

We don't even know if it's canon that Godbert was there or not since there's two versions of the cutscene.

 

Godbert being on the Syndicate is 100% canon. He's recognized as being a Syndicate member by NPCs a couple times when he shows up outside the MSQ. Also we have this Journal text from the quest "Manderville Men" for further proof:

 

Lady Durilda is dissatisfied with the vase until Godbert unexpectedly arrives and reveals that he was the one who reconstructed it. This fact, coupled with the knowledge that he, a member of the Syndicate, is also Hildibrand's father, is enough to convince the noblewoman to grant the inspector permission to assist with Briardien's investigation.

[Kellach Woods]

:cactuar:

 

Lady Durilda is dissatisfied with the vase until Godbert unexpectedly arrives and reveals that he was the one who reconstructed it. This fact, coupled with the knowledge that he, a member of the Syndicate, is also Hildibrand's father, is enough to convince the noblewoman to grant the inspector permission to assist with Briardien's investigation.

 

Except that's not what I said.

 

I said we do not know if he was there due to two versions of the cutscene, not that he's not on the Syndicate.

[Warren Castille]

:cactuar:

 

Lady Durilda is dissatisfied with the vase until Godbert unexpectedly arrives and reveals that he was the one who reconstructed it. This fact, coupled with the knowledge that he, a member of the Syndicate, is also Hildibrand's father, is enough to convince the noblewoman to grant the inspector permission to assist with Briardien's investigation.

 

Except that's not what I said.

 

I said we do not know if he was there due to two versions of the cutscene, not that he's not on the Syndicate.

 

...sort of. The quest dialogue and the voting for the Domans both got added in 2.2. There's two versions because SE doesn't know what one you would do first, and likely didn't want to spoil the reveal for anyone not up to date on Hildibrand yet. He was there. What he was wearing is up for discussion, though.

[Kage]

The reason behind that is due to how they (most likely) want to tell the story in 2.2. Hildibrand is surprised that his father is now on the Syndicate and at the same time they want you (audience) to be as well.

 

The one and only flag to trigger the change in cutscene is the hildibrand 2.2 completion. They want the reveal to be done in the Hildibrand questline, not 2.2 main story.

[Sounsyy]

:cactuar:

 

Lady Durilda is dissatisfied with the vase until Godbert unexpectedly arrives and reveals that he was the one who reconstructed it. This fact, coupled with the knowledge that he, a member of the Syndicate, is also Hildibrand's father, is enough to convince the noblewoman to grant the inspector permission to assist with Briardien's investigation.

 

Except that's not what I said.

 

I said we do not know if he was there due to two versions of the cutscene, not that he's not on the Syndicate.

 

(So going with Warren and Kage here in that he's covered because of Hildibrand reveal.)

 

But um... I don't really understand what you're saying though? If Godbert is on the Syndicate, and you acknowledge this, then Godbert absolutely must be in that MSQ cutscene, regardless of what he's wearing or not wearing. The only people allowed to sit at that table are Syndicate members and the Sultan(a).

[Kage]

Edit: My god at work my reading skills drop like a rock.

 

He was just wearing robes cause SE didn't want to "spoil" him before 2.2 Hildibrand was done.

[Berrod Armstrong]

honestly think we're trying to look for stuff that isn't there.

 

also, Hildibrand is the kind of NPC you just cannot introduce in MSQ without severe suspension of disbelief. See, Godbert is actually... COMPETENT so his placement in the overarching lore makes sense.

 

Hildibrand... isn't.

Competence is not a requirement for canon. It is shown several times over that Hildebrand blunders his way through difficulty with coincidence and sheer dumb luck. In a world where the warrior of light flies around a giant crystal to save the world, where the moon falls and cracks open to reveal a very angry dragon, and where we ride around in big ol' horsebirds and call upon the STUFF OF LIFE to cast magical spells...blundering and luck doesn't require any suspension of disbelief at all.

 

As for the MSQ thing -- I'm pretty sure he's covered up to avoid a spoiler in the event that the player does the 2.2 MSQ before the Hildy side-quest. As Sounsyy said, ONLY the members of the Syndicate and the Sultana are allowed to sit at that table, and it is otherwise mentioned that Godbert is definitely a member of the Syndicate. Given that there are no other discussed possibilities for the robed figure in the untriggered MSQ cutscene it stands to reason that it's him!

 

If they introduced Hildibrand to the MSQ, I'd have absolutely no problem believing it. Hell, I put up with Biggs and Wedge. 

 

Honestly if Minfilia can be part of the MSQ I welcome Julyan with open arms. Maybe she can beat the crap out of that whiny barbie doll quest giver and use that skillet to save the world oh my god someone get yoshi p on the phone i have great ideas for 3.0 msq. Heavensward can wait Julyan's time is now

[Kellach Woods]

(So going with Warren and Kage here in that he's covered because of Hildibrand reveal.)

 

But um... I don't really understand what you're saying though? If Godbert is on the Syndicate, and you acknowledge this, then Godbert absolutely must be in that MSQ cutscene, regardless of what he's wearing or not wearing. The only people allowed to sit at that table are Syndicate members and the Sultan(a).

 

What happened is I think when I saw the differences between the screenshots is that I thought Godbert's seat was empty. If he's just covered and I didn't see a hooded figure then sure, no problem. It happened and Godbert voted against for his own reasons that we'll likely never find out (though I hope we do).

 

The problem I have with introducing Hildibrand to MSQ is just because his tone goes against the MSQ, and more importantly, I fear that the MSQ would ruin him, like it ruins everyone I love.

 

Seriously name one character that remained themselves and weren't ruined into completely helpless idiots or turned out to be complete villains.

[MadWater]

I never thought I'd feel so bad about getting a Det IV materia. I just now caught up on the story.

[Delilah Scythewood]

(So going with Warren and Kage here in that he's covered because of Hildibrand reveal.)

 

But um... I don't really understand what you're saying though? If Godbert is on the Syndicate, and you acknowledge this, then Godbert absolutely must be in that MSQ cutscene, regardless of what he's wearing or not wearing. The only people allowed to sit at that table are Syndicate members and the Sultan(a).

 

What happened is I think when I saw the differences between the screenshots is that I thought Godbert's seat was empty. If he's just covered and I didn't see a hooded figure then sure, no problem. It happened and Godbert voted against for his own reasons that we'll likely never find out (though I hope we do).

 

The problem I have with introducing Hildibrand to MSQ is just because his tone goes against the MSQ, and more importantly, I fear that the MSQ would ruin him, like it ruins everyone I love.

 

Seriously name one character that remained themselves and weren't ruined into completely helpless idiots or turned out to be complete villains.

I can understand what you're saying Though I see it less as a matter of tone and more as Hildibrand is a different side of the same coin. I think it'd be refreshing if we saw Hildy and co. come around, even if briefly, in the MSQ.

 

As for the deal with Godbert, makes sense why they wouldnt expose him unless the quest was finished to keep from having spoilers.

[Havoc Snow]

Seriously name one character that remained themselves and weren't ruined into completely helpless idiots or turned out to be complete villains.

Urianger, Y'shtola, Papalymo, Yda, and Cid just to name a few. Many of these characters tend to take a backseat when it comes to getting involved in the story, but I would hardly call them completely helpless idiots, and I'm fairly certain none of them have become villains. They have all remained fairly true to their character through 1.0 and into 2.0.

[Kellach Woods]

Cid is pretty much the only one, the rest serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever, their role having all been stolen by... I legit forgot his name. I remember Alisaie, who only does Coil stuff and I've never done much of Coil, but not the brother's name. All I know is that every time he shows up I'm in for a headache.

 

Urianger needed Moenbryda to die for anyone to care about what this old fart's up to.

 

Papalymo/Yda/Y'shtola/Thancred (and the whole ZOMG THANCRED IS POSSESSED was weak as balls btw) are useless post level 10 and even then the only reason they're there was because they put a sack of HP that needed depleting. They could legitimately not be there and just be relegated to questgivers and the storyline would not change.

 

Also bringing up 1.0 stuff at this point serves no purpose - nobody else can see that stuff, it's gone forever except for those who actually played the game back then.