IC Glamours/Illusions

[N'velhi Tia]

So, I was searching for lore covering this but could not find much. As far as I know, Coerthan heretics and Garleans can cast glamours.

 

Is there actually any lore that explains who can take up this kind of.. magic? I'm not strictly talking about making clothes look like X whilst in actuality it's Y. I'm talking about those Garleans on the beach in their swimwear then WHOOP armoured ninja soldier. Talking about a certain Coerthan heretic that went from Malezen to Aevis. 

 

All kinds of illusionary magic, really.

[K'nahli]

So, I was searching for lore covering this but could not find much. As far as I know, Coerthan heretics and Garleans can cast glamours.

 

Is there actually any lore that explains who can take up this kind of.. magic? I'm not strictly talking about making clothes look like X whilst in actuality it's Y. I'm talking about those Garleans on the beach in their swimwear then WHOOP armoured ninja soldier. Talking about a certain Coerthan heretic that went from Malezen to Aevis. 

 

All kinds of illusionary magic, really.

 

I have no information that can help so this is just my opinion really!

 

I make an exception for the elezen and sylphs since they have special powers, naturally, but every other example of this has been in what can be described as "fluff" quests to be honest(as far as I can remember) and honestly I prefer to imagine that such a thing isn't actually very feasible - otherwise it would pose a VERY, real threat to not just military and organisations and influential, diplomatic leaders, but to the general populace too.

 

So while I don't know about any lore behind it, I'm personally of the opinion that it should be highly restrictive to how, where and how long it can be used or at least come with some serious repercussions.

 

 

Having said that, I'm one of those people who believe that just because something is in the game, it doesn't make it canon.

[Kellach Woods]

Glamours are a hit-miss thing. Glamours in the sense of Grade X Prisms to make armor look like something it's not is a purely gameplay thing in my opinion and isn't exactly IC. At least, it would be severely limited.

 

However, glamours in the sense of Voidsent/Undead hiding as random ass animals and other things would be certainly plausible. It's a recurring theme in Levequests, and the military themselves seem to know exactly how to dismiss the vile glamours. I'd say it's just business as usual in Eorzea.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I'm not sure if Garleans can cast glamours, but I would assume anyone magic-enabled probably could. 

 

I RP as Franz using a glamour to hide part of his appearance. I see them more as objects to be used. Something that needs to be reapplied, etc. ...so basically magic makeup.

[K'nahli]

Glamours are a hit-miss thing. Glamours in the sense of Grade X Prisms to make armor look like something it's not is a purely gameplay thing in my opinion and isn't exactly IC. At least, it would be severely limited.

 

However, glamours in the sense of Voidsent/Undead hiding as random ass animals and other things would be certainly plausible. It's a recurring theme in Levequests, and the military themselves seem to know exactly how to dismiss the vile glamours. I'd say it's just business as usual in Eorzea.

 

They have a method to dispel them sure, but realistically it couldn't possibly be so easy once you consider all the possibilities. Someone could easily glamour themselves as a high-ranking officer and stab Raubahn or anyone else in the back with no trouble whatsoever. Likewise, someone could pose as a wealthy patron or a member of the syndicate and intercept due payments/shipments - to name just a couple.

[N'velhi Tia]

I'm not sure if Garleans can cast glamours, but I would assume anyone magic-enabled probably could. 

 

 

It was an assumption I made during the level 45 ninja quest:

 

 

During it, you're tasked to find your armour pieces but there are some really well-disguised Garleans sitting around. You interact with them and they poof out of their disguises and into their battle gear. I made a screenshot of one:

 

This gal here went from:

 

To:

 

 

And if I recall correctly the inquisitor in the Coerthan part of the Main Story Quest used an arcanist's book to activate his glamour. We know arcanists can cast myriad spells - but would it plausible for them to use some advanced formula to temporarily alter their appearance?

[Dravus]

I'm wary about this sort of thing since more often then not it seems to be embraced as a means of evading any real drawbacks to a character's more controversial traits. As far as I'm concerned being a Garlean is something that can bring a lot of depth to role-play but so far it seems like a lot of people simply make their character into a Garlean to gain the perk of advanced technological prowess/knowledge and then conveniently write off the downsides of being a Garlean by using fantasia or glamours to hide it.

 

As I've said in other threads, it's just so bizarre to me. There's so little racial lore in this game to begin with when compared to the likes of WoW and ESO so it's a real shame when what little of it exists is discarded in favour of convenient IC race changes/disguises.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I'm wary about this sort of thing since more often then not it seems to be embraced as a means of evading any real drawbacks to a character's more controversial traits. As far as I'm concerned being a Garlean is something that can bring a lot of depth to role-play but so far it seems like a lot of people simply make their character into a Garlean to gain the perk of advanced technological prowess/knowledge and then conveniently write off the downsides of being a Garlean by using fantasia or glamours to hide it.

 

As I've said in other threads, it's just so bizarre to me. There's so little racial lore in this game to begin with when compared to the likes of WoW and ESO so it's a real shame when what little of it exists is discarded in favour of convenient IC race changes/disguises.

 

At least on the Garlean front, there are many, many different ways to "qualify" as being a Garlean. And only the racially pure-blooded ones have issues with aether manipulation and the third eye. I personally do not accept fantasia potions as something that exist within my interpretation of the lore, but I do accept glamours because while they might be able to hide something, it is still always there. 

 

And with the rampant amount of IC racism that is supposed to exist, I would assume most Garleans would be doing something to hide any major distinguishing features away.

[Enzo]

I'm wary about this sort of thing since more often then not it seems to be embraced as a means of evading any real drawbacks to a character's more controversial traits. As far as I'm concerned being a Garlean is something that can bring a lot of depth to role-play but so far it seems like a lot of people simply make their character into a Garlean to gain the perk of advanced technological prowess/knowledge and then conveniently write off the downsides of being a Garlean by using fantasia or glamours to hide it.

 

As I've said in other threads, it's just so bizarre to me. There's so little racial lore in this game to begin with when compared to the likes of WoW and ESO so it's a real shame when what little of it exists is discarded in favour of convenient IC race changes/disguises.

 

At least on the Garlean front, there are many, many different ways to "qualify" as being a Garlean. And only the racially pure-blooded ones have issues with aether manipulation and the third eye. I personally do not accept fantasia potions as something that exist within my interpretation of the lore, but I do accept glamours because while they might be able to hide something, it is still always there. 

 

And with the rampant amount of IC racism that is supposed to exist, I would assume most Garleans would be doing something to hide any major distinguishing features away.

 

Right. All you have to do is have lived in Garlemald/been born there to be a Garlean. That does not necessarily mean you have all their perks. Garlemald is a country and its people Garleans. While there is a specific race of Garleans you do not have to be that race to be good with technology. There is a lot more problems that come with Role playing a pure blooded garlean beyond what you can glamor. But Glamors ease the burden that Garleans have to bear because they are a race often absolutely hated by Eorzeans. If you were to walk around without trying to hide the fact you were a pure blood? You would be attacked, antagonized, and arrested. You simply would not be able to do ANYTHING. That is not a downside. That is you can not role play.

I personally don't use glamors often. Opting to wear a mask because I am too lazy to write facial emotions. But my character is a full blooded garlean and if he is in a situation where he can't wear a mask he has to decline or wear a glamor of his face on his mask. It looks totally normal. But if you try to flick him on the forehead or something you would be able to tell. Glamors are not fools proof. The main drawback of my character as a Garlean is the fact he has this complex over all the other races and knows nothing of their culture. He can also be needlessly harsh. It is more of a personality thing. And it is perfectly possible to remove his glamor or catch him as a garlean if someone ripped off his mask. Just most people are not so bold as to do so.

[Dravus]

Well, I play Graeham as being half-Garlean and one of the consequences of that is that he struggles to do anything involving the manipulation of aether. I'm glad I went down that route since it's a great excuse to avoid instantaneous travel via aetheryte beyond emergencies.

 

As for the racism? If people find out his heritage IC then it makes for some great opportunities: some characters are fine with it, others view him with suspicion and it can lead to some delicious tension and conflict!

[Val]

 

Having said that, I'm one of those people who believe that just because something is in the game, it doesn't make it canon.

 

This makes two of us. SE has a bad, BAD habit of trying to explain everything they do in the game with in-game lore, and it ends up broken at worst and incredibly campy at best.

 

I don't think there really is a lot of lore on glamour so much as they needed an excuse as to how their system would work and they weaved something together as they're known to do. I'd like to think it's little more than a bit of illusion magic, but I really don't know who would be able to cast that and where it would be learned from aside from sylphs and typical fae folk.

[Sounsyy]

EDITED: Incorrect text, new lore was released with Heavensward on how Ishgardians turn into dragons.

 

 

As wary as some people are of "glamours" or "glamour magick," it is 100% canon to lore on multiple fronts. I can understand reservation on something like the "Fantasia Potion" as it's a money-store bought item with no other mention elsewhere in Eorzea besides some ambiguous flavor text. Glamours, on the other hand, are everywhere in Eorzea. From Levequests to F.A.T.E.s to MSQ to Seasonal to Hildibrand. Even if glamouring isn't really your cup of tea, something that is that frequently expressed in the game cannot be cast aside as not canon because of personal preference.

 

We see a lot of "Glamour Magicks" used by Voidsent, particularly imps, as well as Sylphs. But we also have glamour crystals which are crafted not using magic. So a pure-blood Garlean may lean more towards the latter form of glamourification.

 

As for the main story quest where the inquisitor becomes a dragon... I think that is less Arcanima than it is Dragon magic. Dragons have some very impressive magicks that we can only hope to see and learn more of in Heavensward, but shape-shifting may be one of those magicks? We don't see Arcanima used for glamour anywhere else I don't think.

Blessed or magicked blood from ancient Dravanian causes Ishgardians to turn into Dravanians.

 

All that said, glamours appear to be sketchy at best and not very reliable for long periods of time. Also there's several ways of dispelling glamours and per most Levequests, the respective militaries recognize many of these ways to dispel glamours.

 

And honestly, glamours are the least of Raubahn's worries when his right-hand woman was a Garlean double agent betraying his every move for the last 5 years. lol

 

[Val]

As wary as some people are of "glamours" or "glamour magick," it is 100% canon to lore on multiple fronts. I can understand reservation on something like the "Fantasia Potion" as it's a money-store bought item with no other mention elsewhere in Eorzea besides some ambiguous flavor text. Glamours, on the other hand, are everywhere in Eorzea. From Levequests to F.A.T.E.s to MSQ to Seasonal to Hildibrand. Even if glamouring isn't really your cup of tea, something that is that frequently expressed in the game cannot be cast aside as not canon because of personal preference.

 

We see a lot of "Glamour Magicks" used by Voidsent, particularly imps, as well as Sylphs. But we also have glamour crystals which are crafted not using magic. So a pure-blood Garlean may lean more towards the latter form of glamourification.

 

As for the main story quest where the inquisitor becomes a dragon... I think that is less Arcanima than it is Dragon magic. Dragons have some very impressive magicks that we can only hope to see and learn more of in Heavensward, but shape-shifting may be one of those magicks? We don't see Arcanima used for glamour anywhere else I don't think.

 

All that said, glamours appear to be sketchy at best and not very reliable for long periods of time. Also there's several ways of dispelling glamours and per most Levequests, the respective militaries recognize many of these ways to dispel glamours.

 

And honestly, glamours are the least of Raubahn's worries when his right-hand woman was a Garlean double agent betraying his every move for the last 5 years. lol

 

 

 

I see your point =) I think my reservations come with asking how easy it would be for your typical eorzean/adventurer to do. Most of the people/creatures you mentioned are considered MSQ characters/more powerful than your average adventurer/RP character should be.

[K'nahli]

As wary as some people are of "glamours" or "glamour magick," it is 100% canon to lore on multiple fronts. I can understand reservation on something like the "Fantasia Potion" as it's a money-store bought item with no other mention elsewhere in Eorzea besides some ambiguous flavor text. Glamours, on the other hand, are everywhere in Eorzea. From Levequests to F.A.T.E.s to MSQ to Seasonal to Hildibrand. Even if glamouring isn't really your cup of tea, something that is that frequently expressed in the game cannot be cast aside as not canon because of personal preference.

 

We see a lot of "Glamour Magicks" used by Voidsent, particularly imps, as well as Sylphs. But we also have glamour crystals which are crafted not using magic. So a pure-blood Garlean may lean more towards the latter form of glamourification.

 

As for the main story quest where the inquisitor becomes a dragon... I think that is less Arcanima than it is Dragon magic. Dragons have some very impressive magicks that we can only hope to see and learn more of in Heavensward, but shape-shifting may be one of those magicks? We don't see Arcanima used for glamour anywhere else I don't think.

 

All that said, glamours appear to be sketchy at best and not very reliable for long periods of time. Also there's several ways of dispelling glamours and per most Levequests, the respective militaries recognize many of these ways to dispel glamours.

 

And honestly, glamours are the least of Raubahn's worries when his right-hand woman was a Garlean double agent betraying his every move for the last 5 years. lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just to be clear on my point, I'm not exactly against the glamouring of one's appearance, but rather the ability for just about anyone to do it easily and efficiently. You say that there are methods of dispelling these things and that's true, but unless you're not a convincing actor and dealing with someone who knows the real person very well, then Garleans in particular could abuse this to high heaven and make a lot more progress than they do by simply dressing up and playing as regular soldiers(in which their ranks have to be actually earned too).... and even then there would always be a massive sense of mistrust among your own comrades.

 

Is Steve having a bad day and perhaps acting moody? Better smack him with a alchemical dispeller to make sure he's not someone pretending to be him.

 

^Things like that are basically where most of my reluctance comes from.

 

 

 

2.3-2.4(I think) MSQ Spoiler

 

 

I was considering that too actually. If she really, really wanted to get away with it then she could have used a glamour when conveying information to other agents as opposed to sneaking indoors to change into a new pair of clothes.

 

Likewise, the other double agents that broke her out could have provided her with some so that her retreat back to Garlean lines would have been practically ensured.

 

 

 

Also, as a side note to anyone who perhaps plays characters or knows characters who roleplay anything akin to this concept, please keep in mind that everyone thusfar has merely been sharing their personal opinions(myself included of course)!

These kinds of things can sometimes sound like the concept is being condemned in discussions like these but that is not anyone's intent I'm sure.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Edit:

Val just.... basically said what I meant in two lines ;;;    *incompetent*

[Sounsyy]

I see your point =) I think my reservations come with asking how easy it would be for your typical eorzean/adventurer to do. Most of the people/creatures you mentioned are considered MSQ characters/more powerful than your average adventurer/RP character should be.

 

I guess that's really up to the RP character. But you're totally right in that you don't see the average Eorzean walking around in glamour or peddling glamours. They seem fairly uncommon to the general populace. So I guess having them would be dependent on if you think it makes sense for your character. If your character is a very well traveled Adventurer, or a dubious merchant in strange and little understood goods, or a Garlean trying to blend in with Eorzeans for whatever reason... I think you could make it work for the character.

 

My character, on the other hand, wouldn't know the first thing about glamour or even where to get her hands on them unless they were being sold in Hawker's Alley.

[Chillsmack]

Our characters live in a world where technology and magick are nearly one in the same in terms of how they are used and their functional purposes.

I don't necessarily think that someone who uses a glamour is tapping into some intrinsic magickal power, but could very well have a device that is doing this just like a glamour prism but engineered for people.

 

With regards to the heretics though I agree with Sounsyy. Dragon mojo

[Val]

I see your point =) I think my reservations come with asking how easy it would be for your typical eorzean/adventurer to do. Most of the people/creatures you mentioned are considered MSQ characters/more powerful than your average adventurer/RP character should be.

 

I guess that's really up to the RP character. But you're totally right in that you don't see the average Eorzean walking around in glamour or peddling glamours. They seem fairly uncommon to the general populace. So I guess having them would be dependent on if you think it makes sense for your character. If your character is a very well traveled Adventurer, or a dubious merchant in strange and little understood goods, or a Garlean trying to blend in with Eorzeans for whatever reason... I think you could make it work for the character.

 

My character, on the other hand, wouldn't know the first thing about glamour or even where to get her hands on them unless they were being sold in Hawker's Alley.

 

That's pretty much how I see it. Val would never use a glamour. He has a hard enough time sensing aether as it is, much less controlling it. Vallois couldn't either, and Cyrus would have a very tentative understanding only due to what his parents taught him.

 

The only person I've ever had cast a glamour spell was Melfice, a void-enthusiast, and it was just meant to change how he looks.

[myahele]

In regards to glamours there are plenty in-game lore that explains it. 

 

However, I think things like glamour prisms will be out of reach for the common Eorzean due to their expense: Need to have a master crafter to make glamour prism.

 

As for glamouring into another person? It's possible but the knowledge is limited to a few people and the effects can also be dispelled easily.

[N'velhi Tia]

Thanks for the answers! Knowing some people would rather not see it, I'll not have my character use glamours ICly.

[Perth]

Thanks for the answers! Knowing some people would rather not see it, I'll not have my character use glamours ICly.

 

Daww, no, don't let that stop you! D:< That's one thing I tend to dislike about some aspects of lore that's quite prevalent, a few folk say they don't like seeing it and it discourages brave (and sometimes terribly good) ideas. Don't be discouraged or turned away.

[ZindelloTarantella]

The only character I have that actively uses glamours is my Moogle side-kick for my main, for obvious reasons. Folks are actually pretty good about remembering that most folks can't see through their glamours (which is especially good since I don't remember half the time! ).

 

If you want to have a person who uses glamours, I don't see why not so long as you're careful about what works. Tarot, my main, uses disguises that I cobble together with gear and uses practical make-up on occasion, such as false-noses, make-up, contacts (os whatever the fantasy equivalent would be) amongst other tricks of the trade. It doesn't effect his ability to play and in fact leads to some fun interactions. 

 

Just be mindful of what you do and you should be okay.

[Harmonixer]

I'm glad this was brought up, I've been wondering about the subject myself. I found all of this really helpful!

 

There's quite the divide acceptable in terms of lore on this game. It's pretty amusing to see the picking and choosing of specific things. Ignoring some aspects and embracing others. I of course agree that everything should be taken into consideration but I particularly find it funny when it's mostly supported and someone says 'Eh.'

 

It's a two-way street, is what I think of.

[Edvyn]

can a glamour be used to disguise a loud fart as a burp and vice versa to change how rude the offending gas expulsion is perceived to be

[Y'lani]

can a glamour be used to disguise a loud fart as a burp and vice versa to change how rude the offending gas expulsion is perceived to be

 

Edda!

 

 

 

 

 

Disclaimer: Don't worry. I would never commit such a horrendous act against my good friend, Edda Vincents.

not with her looking, at least.

 

EDIT TO CONTRIBUTE TO THREAD: I'll drop my own two gil in this topic and say that, personally, I don't mind the use of small glamors in roleplay as long as they have their drawbacks as Franz and Enzo have stated. If there is a risk to the glamor, it not only adds flavor, but plausibility as well.

 

I do not find it believable that a lalafell could take on the appearance of her Roegadyn boss if she so desired, although I do find it believable that a man could change his face for about an hour before the need for reapplication arises.

 

My advice? As long as you don't over-do it, you should definitely go for it!

[Gegenji]

So I guess having them would be dependent on if you think it makes sense for your character. If your character is a very well traveled Adventurer, or a dubious merchant in strange and little understood goods, or a Garlean trying to blend in with Eorzeans for whatever reason... I think you could make it work for the character.

 

So now we know where to get them IC. Verad has himself a market to corner. :lol: