Aya

I guess you could consider it a reservation fee perhaps? I don't know what it is beyond being a service of artficially limited supply but high demand that therefore is worth money to people

Yeah, the car example is really just entirely unrelated to "property" commerce in FF. You would have to go through so much work to make a hypothetical that actually made them comparable that it would be silly I think. Since what you're actually selling is a permit allowing someone to own a car, but they still have to buy the car themselves (yours having been scrapped when you relinquish the permit). Except that you're not actually exchanging the permit, since that has to go through the DMV. So what you're doing is agreeing on the time you will take your permit down to the DMV to return it to them (in exchange for nothing), and doing so in exchange for cash. This doesn't sound much like selling your used car anymore does it?

What you're really selling is timing.You're saying, if you pay me the right amount of gil, I will relinquish this plot at a time of your chosing. That really isn't the same as selling physical property or a building upon that property. I'm not really sure how I feel about that, but I guess these sorts of things tend to develop commerce naturally in mmos since there is demand for it

I so wish I could have made this! ^^

Welcome to Balmung! If you're around Ul'dah much I'm sure we'll run into each other once I get back in game next week

Aya mostly wears white, black, and her favorite: red! Not sure if these are her favorite colors or not but they make for good outfits in game!! ^^

Darn smart people only wanting to hang out with other smart people!!!! ^^ <3 <3 <3

With our powers united, we form Captain Hydaelen!

<3 <3 <3 I love all of you!!! <3 <3 <3

I keep hearing this idea that one is not a Dragoon, unless one has earned the title by killing a dragon, but I really suspect we're going to find out this isn't the case. There look to be two different usages of the word "Dragoon": Dragoon Job: A group of elite Ishgardian soldiers trained specifically to fight dragons. Dragoon Title: Any Ishgardian soldier who has successfully killed a dragon. There are some circumstances in which case the job could require the title, but these don't make much sense (would the manpower starved Ishgardians cull their potential Dragoon recruitment pool by first sending them untrained against dragons, just to see who survives?). Becoming a dragoon is likely a years-long, if not life-long process that weeds out all but the most capable of soldiers before they reach the point that they first enter combat against Dragons. I've heard Attack on Titan brought up in this thread, and that really does seem like an apt comparison. That would make the idea of "novice" Dragoons both reasonable, and necessary. Whether or not any are on the outside world, well that's a matter for a good RP story! It is possible that the Dragoon job abilities can't be learned until after killing a dragon, such as if they are some sort of "grant" of power that occurs after a soldier has proven his or her worth by killing a dragon. Or, perhaps, "Now that you've shown you're skilled enough to kill a dragon in combat, you'll enter the 'Dragoon Crash Course' six step program, which will teach you to... kill dragons in combat. Good luck!" Anyway, these sorts of approaches would leave the full lore behind the job just as a inane as that in the job quests themselves. I hope that's not the case :-]

Here we go!

I'll be back in game in a little over a week, and I'd be happy to meet you in Ul'dah! Aya's a barmaid at the Quick Sand, and somewhat ubiquitous around the city, and always looking to make new friends :-]

Duh ^^

Nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

The Final Fantasy equivalent of a Jawa Sand Crawler!! I love it ^^

I'll just be glad there's no stigma against barmaids and dancers!

I dont have anything interesting to add to the discussion you're enjoying Zhavi ^^

Well, you guys can do what you want, but my bottom line is as follows: Anyone who dismisses a Dragoon for, you know, being a Dragoon, is being a jerk. Anyone who claims that a Dragoon cannot effectively utilize a jumping manuever in combat, is being a jerk. That's not to claim that anyone and everyone playing a Dragoon will be interesting, or fun; there may even be more rather than fewer "poor RPers" playing Dragoons (since I never see any, and I avoid combat RP, I really don't know!) But Dragoons are part of FFXIV lore. They are part of FF lore in general. They've been with the game for ages, and they're known for their ability to jump and then land on their targets with lances. Not liking that is about on par with not liking Chocobos, you can grumble about them, but they exist, and you really ought to accept that ICly, even if they really don't make much sense.

Kage, My post was a reply to one that has now been deleted, that tried to suggest that this thread was not about the stigma of Dragoons in RP. I was pointing out that association being on the very first page, not to mention the topic of the thread itself, makes this thread quite different than what was being suggested by Zhavi. Val, you're essentially saying "Yes you can be a Dragoon, but don't actually try to be a Dragoon, unless of course you're fighting Dragons." While Dragons are the ultimate target, there is nothing anywhere in the game to suggest that is the only target against which Dragoons know how to jump against. Its absurd to be alright, on one hand, with fireballs, and on the other dismiss entirely the ability for someone to guide their descent to strike you with a lance. They're both ridiculous, yet both in a fantasy setting are reasonable, especially when the jumping Dragoon is a time-honored part of Final Fantasy! You're making a huge assumption that the line of attack cannot be changed, and that a simple move is all that's required to avoid it. You're also dismissing what should be a dramatic moment. No, I don't think that a Dragoon's Jump is super-powered, but like all character abilities its power is just as necessary to fit the story and the moment. For you to automatically side-step his jump, is exactly the same as his automatically avoiding every strike you make. Neither is ultimately helpful to the story, really.

I'm not taking anything personally. I am friends with most everyone in this thread, and know that they don't mean anything personal against me :-X And as someone who has no intention of playing a Dragoon in RP I don't really have anything at stake I the topic. I just like people to be accepting of RP that fits so easily within the games canon. It doesn't sit well with me for people to be preemptively dismissing others. The thread is about a stigma against people RPing Dragoons, on the first page we have discussion about someone being kicked out of an FC tied in with discussion of the absurdity of Dragoons being able to jump. This was followed by an explanation of why physics and believability are important for immersion (the implication being that Dragoons are immersion breaking). I have certainly seen the discussion of believability that has followed within that framework: it isnt beleivable and therefore its immersion breaking, and bad RP. Warren and others have not expressed themselves in the sense that, "I understand that we have to offer leeway in RP, but I am curious how it's meant to work", but instead have followed within the vain of "its not believable", which is not a neutral knowledge-seeking stance to adopt, especially in this context. That's why I just clarified what my purpose is: not to prove that Dragoon jumping ability is believable, but instead to make the point that it should be accepted in RP regardless. Edit: I see Zhavi's post I was responding to has been removed, basically. Typing on phone is too slow ^^

I don't think I'm punishing anybody, and if you think that's the attitude I'd take to someone using Jump in combat, I'm not sure what to say. I was replying to Berrod and his point about paying attention to lore and using it to explain extraordinary ability. A Dragoon RPer could not do that no matter how much he may want to since it's unelaborated. That expectation isn't reasonable where it's impossible to fulfill. It would be better if it were.

You're still punishing players for the games bad or lacking lore. I cannot go along with that. Asking out if curiosity? Good and and all. "LOL that Dragoon thinks he can jump in combat?" You're just being a jerk, and no amount of hand-waving will make that go away.

Considering that the premise of the thread is how Dragoon RPers are looked down upon, and that this thread includes examples of "why I find dragoons unbelievable", etc, then yes. It may not be outright refusal to RP with, but it certainly sounds like there is a substantial resistance to the very idea. Unless, perhaps, one plays a Dragoon who is not really a Dragoon (i.e. an Ishgardian Lancer without the jumping ability). I've never even seen a Dragoon RPer, but it just rubs me the wrong way that the very idea is treated so derisively and with such ridicule. People should be able to play one if they want without having their most basic capability brought into question (something no other job seems to be faced with).

What is the need for a specific handwave anyway? In a world where "the aether did it" is a serious if unsatisfying answer, why is there even an argument about what is not only an obvious canon ability but one that is a classic and recurrent one throughout FF in general? They're not going to turn around and say "sorry guys, that whole jumping thing wasn't believable so we're going to remove it.

The reason it isn't better explained is because the job quests suck, making the player a one of a kind natural at being a dragoon. That doesn't provide insight but it certainly doesn't mean there is none. To deny hand-waving on these grounds while blithely assuming that every other job and class find a way to do their thing is an example of exactly what this thread is about. It's an utterly ridiculous argument: "the only way you learn to jump in the game is by being the Azure Dragoon, therefore if you're not the Azure Dragoon there's no way to hand-wave your ability to perform your job skills." Yes they wrote a lame story, but it is undeniable that there are numerous dragoons and they're all taught the skills in some way! Whatever that way is it must be -something-. Just because it isn't spelled out in explicit fantasy jargon is no good reason to deny that it exits.